General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Nobody in the world, nobody in history, has ever gotten their freedom ...."
marble falls
(57,102 posts)Aristus
(66,386 posts)They refused to cooperate.
Peaceful, non-violent, non-cooperation.
marble falls
(57,102 posts)The violence caused by the partition of the Indian continent that still continues isn't even a nick in scale. If there ever was a moral reaction from a colonial power to release a colony this is it. There was huge out-pour of sympathy of citizens of UK to release India into the free world. And India never used much violence to accomplish it. This was much more a moral choice than a feeling of reaction to threat. And the British definitely did react to it.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)political and economic calculations than moral ones.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)It occurred alongside violent resistance.
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)Most of Gandhi's peoples lot in life is the same or worse for the benefit of the same fucks as colonialism.
There is no freedom in sleeping under a sewing machine, subsistence day labor, or losing land. They are serfs and so it will be with us if we aren't careful.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)NRA_SUCKS
(39 posts)it's easier and cheaper to hire the whip holders.
that way it's seen as an internal thing donchaknow?
The reality is somewhere in the middle. after all someone in India sold out their fellows as slave labor to the mega corps.
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)buy in all the way to the oppressed population and fostering new class divisions to exploit and hide behind. A few of these get to owner class which makes for a lottery vibe. Next thing you know, bootstrap fables galore and victim blaming and puffed up "we built that" bullshit.
Taken in the big picture the exploiters keep on exploiting to this day.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Abolished primarily due to the moral appeals of Quakers and Christians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_British_Isles
iemitsu
(3,888 posts)which included the fact that holding slaves was not widespread, in Britain, and it was not a vital underpinning of their economy.
Some northern states in America outlawed slavery for "moral" reasons too, and because slavery was not widespread or vital in their communities either.
So people are capable of legislation, motivated by moral considerations, when it doesn't cost them too much.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)with the Slavery Abolition Act. In 1843, slavery was completely abolished, including places like India and Ceylon, where slavery was a major part of local economies.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)The historical reason that Liverpool is still a center of the cotton trade.
Yet although no raw cotton is handled today by its docks, Lancashires textile industry having collapsed, the city remains an important hub and is home to the body that sets the Liverpool rules under which much of the commodity is traded.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2a01be14-7f40-11e1-b3d4-00144feab49a.html
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Seems the only pressure the ones on top care about comes from others on top.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)but I do see your point.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 16, 2013, 03:26 PM - Edit history (1)
the day.
and it's one reason they turned anti-slavery (they hadn't been always, as a body)
lots of money, nowhere to invest it. they wanted more growth. the slave system tends to be an economically stagnant system. and truth be told, the plantation owners and shippers were already in hock to the financiers rather significantly.
malaise
(269,054 posts)and don't forget the Berbice rebellion before that. Slaves were fighting back.
No doubt the Quakers appeal to those with a conscience but it was those slaves winning in Haiti athat changed everything and they are never given their deserved credit.
Cedric the Clam
(35 posts)But Liberals and progressives mostly choose appealing to the moral sense of the oppressors as the prefered way to make a change.
When I see all the politely worded and fact loaded petitions that are so prevalent these days, I have to wonder how much effect they can have.
The people to whom these petitions are directed against don't care about facts or what other people think.
They only care whether or not they can get away with what they do, without paying a monetary price.
Boycotts or other means of hurting the oppressors financially are probably the best first place to start.
Oppressors have no moral sense to which one can appeal.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)I strongly recommend Westen's "The Political Brain" for a thorough understanding of how our side is failing to win elections by not appealing to voter's value systems.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... was the one that referred me to this book here while back. I do have it now. Sitting on my night stand. Think I've read one chapter so far... Have been sick and can't seem to get going on it. Will start up where I left off and get going on it this week. Thanks...
treestar
(82,383 posts)Through passage of the 19th Amendment at a time when legislatures must have been majority male.
Not that hopeless, and always worth trying.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Lots of groups have gotten their freedom by appealing to the moral sense of the people who were oppressing them.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Cronus Protagonist
(15,574 posts)He saved a lot of people and was surely, as a Nazi German, one of the oppressors who gave his workers freedom due, in part, to their appeal to moral generosity and sensibility.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)And I will add to it one more thing, equally accurate, and perhaps less well understood. No one has won their freedom without at least the threat of force as the cudgel compelling the attention of the oppressor. Not King. Not Ghandi. No one. King and Ghandi won using non-violence because, for the elite, it was preferable to the very real violence that was waiting in the wings as an alternative.
I am not advocating violence here or anywhere. Having experienced it I do not wish it upon anyone. I am merely reflecting on reality -- one of those truths we don't talk about.
But if you wonder why Wall Street wasn't impressed by drum circles that's the answer. When the elite are relaxing over cocktails and congratulating themselves on their mastery of the world, five million drum circles does not command the attention of, for example, a single alternative cocktail. They don't care about people protesting them, they think it's hillarious. And why wouldn't they -- you're beating drums and they're emptying your checkling account and getting fat on taxpayer dollars. They're sipping champaigne and passing the Gray Poupon while the police break your skull and haul you off on trumped up charges.
It's tragic that it so often comes to this, but there it is. If you want to stop, say, the Keystone Pipeline, fifty guys with hammers and pipe wrenches are worth fifty thousand with signs and drums crying for the environment.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)dimbear
(6,271 posts)Didn't happen.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)No one likes activists. They're in your face, pushy, arrogant, disregard rules of propriety and even civil laws. But they serve a purpose. It probably is necessary to be activist to change things.
Still, appealing to the morals of the powers that be is a starting point, I would think. That's the first thing to do. Then you move on to other things, when that doesn't work, and the basis of the activism is morality.
I do think that part of what helped end slavery in the U.S. was the immorality of it, as viewed by some of the leaders in the north and some of the ordinary citizens.