Gun debate: Chicago vs. Rural Illinois

[marmar]

(Bloomberg) Illinois has less than three months to comply with a federal court order requiring the nation’s fifth most-populous state to enact what is already law in the other 49 -- allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons.

Lawmakers must balance the intent of a Dec. 11 ruling by a panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals in Chicago with the desire to protect the public. The ensuing debate over just who should be armed and where in the home state of President Barack Obama has exposed political and cultural divisions that cross party lines.

While the national gun debate in Congress is driven by the Dec. 14 shootings of 20 students and six educators at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, the deliberations here have closer-to-home influences. Chicago recorded 506 homicides in 2012, its highest number in four years. Then in January, Hadiya Pendleton, a 15-year-old girl who had performed at Obama’s second inauguration, was shot dead in a park about a mile from the president’s South Side home.

Some opponents of stricter gun laws have used charged language to make their case that such violence in Illinois’s largest city shouldn’t dictate statewide policy. ..............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-13/tightening-illinois-gun-law-conceals-divide-on-pistol-use.html

[spin]

1. A high percentage of gun crime in Chicago is a result of drug gangs fighting ...

over turf.

August 23, 2012 7:19 PM

Mexican drug cartels fight turf battles in Chicago
By Armen Keteyian

***snip***

Riley is special agent in charge of the Drug Enforcement Administration Office in Chicago and in four neighboring states.

Daily turf battles over drugs and distribution, he said, are turning parts of this Midwest city into a Mexican border town.

"One of the hardest jobs I've had in the past couple of years is to convince our law enforcement partners that we need an enforcement mentality as if we're on the border," Riley said.

Miles away, Riley says, Mexican cartels have a significant influence in Chicago's gang violence problem.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57499523/mexican-drug-cartels-fight-turf-battles-in-chicago/

July 11, 2012 6:36 PM

Chicago police sergeant: "Tribal warfare" on the streets

(CBS News) CHICAGO - Chicago is in the grips of a deadly gang war. At least 275 people have been killed in the city so far this year and many more have been shot, many of them innocent bystanders to the gang violence. Among the latest victims were 12- and 13-year-old girls shot Tuesday night. They survived.

Sgt. Matt Little leads one of the teams in Chicago's Gang Enforcement Unit. There are about 200 such officers in the city-- versus 100,000 gang members.

"Almost all the violence we're seeing now is from the gangs," Little said. "When there's a shooting we'll respond to the shooting. We'll figure out where we believe the most likely area for retaliation is and we'll work that area trying to both prevent retaliation and possibly build a case on offenders."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57470618/chicago-police-sergeant-tribal-warfare-on-the-streets/

It is possible that allowing honest, responsible and trained citizens to carry concealed weapons on the streets may save some from violence and may reduce street crime such as muggings to a degree. However gang warfare is an entirely different matter.

How can anyone realistically expect that anyone with a concealed handgun will be able to draw and shoot a gang member in a car who is firing randomly into a crowd of people as he drives by at 15 to 20 mph. It might make for a good scene in a movie but reality is far different.

I personally favor allowing implementing "shall issue" concealed carry in Chicago but I suspect that if it does happen it will be "may issue" and consequently only the rich and famous will be allowed to carry as is true in New York City.

The Rich, the Famous, the Armed
By JO CRAVEN McGINTY
Published: February 18, 2011

MEN and women. Democrats and Republicans. Doctors, lawyers, merchants and moguls. A remarkable, if relatively small, cross-section of New Yorkers legally own handguns, according to public records obtained by The New York Times.

***snip***

The 41,164 handguns registered with the Police Department as of Jan. 14 include those owned by more than 2,400 people who live outside the city but have permission to bring their weapons here — people like Roger E. Ailes, the president of Fox News, whose license lists an address in New Jersey; John J. Mack, the chairman of Morgan Stanley, who lives in Westchester County; and Sean Hannity, the conservative talk-show host, who lives on Long Island.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/nyregion/20guns.html?_r=0

December 2, 2008, 1:13 pm
Annie Hall, Get Your Gun
By SEWELL CHAN

Updated with correction, Dec. 3 | Plaxico Burress, the Giants wide receiver who faces handgun-possession charges after he accidentally shot himself in a Manhattan nightclub, does not have a license to own or carry a gun in New York City. But about 37,000 people do — a figure that might come as a surprise to those who know that the city has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation and a mayor at the forefront of the fight against illegal trafficking.

***snip***

Of the seven categories, the “full carry” handgun licenses have drawn the most attention. In 2006, The New York Post reported that a number of well-known figures in business, entertainment and politics were those with permits to carry concealed weapons, including Ronald S. Lauder, the cosmetics executive; Donald J. Trump, the real estate investor; Edgar Bronfman Sr., founder of Seagrams; the actors Robert De Niro and Harvey Keitel; the radio hosts Howard Stern and Don Imus; and the State Senate majority leader at the time, Joseph L. Bruno, who lives upstate but had an office in Manhattan.

***snip***

In 2007, The Post reported that other gun-license holders included Donald Trump Jr.; the Queens district attorney, Richard A. Brown; the Westchester County district attorney, Janet DiFiore; Tommy Mottola, the music executive; Isaac Perlmutter, chief executive of Marvel Comics; the lawyers Barry Slotnick and Raoul Felder; the publisher Robert Forbes; and the political activist Fernando Mateo.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/02/a-guide-to-city-gun-licenses/

[Hoyt]

2. Rational approach -- If you aren't in a drug gang, not much reason to tote in public.

Somehow I don't think the gun cultists in Chicago will be rational about that. They feel so deprived without a gun in their pants.

[spin]

3. Not all street crime involves gang activity. ...

Two co-workers of mine were in downtown Tampa on a chilly morning in January. They were in a vacant lot just after a building had been torn down and were using metal detectors to search for old coins and rings.

A man walked up to them and pulled a large knife. He demanded that my co-workers hand over their wallets.

One of my co-workers calmly pulled back his jacket to show the Colt .45 pistol he had in a shoulder holster. The mugger noticed it and walked off muttering to himself. All ended peacefully.

Of course my co-worker who had the pistol might have used his skills in karate to handle the situation as he was a black belt. Had he done so, someone would have ended up hurt.

[Hoyt]

4. Like I figured, even though gang crime is high percentage, you guys will always find excuse to tote.

If there were almost zero crime, you'd still need your gun close by and fabricate some excuse to tote.

I think crime is not the reason most of the gun crowd tote.

[spin]

6. Yup, and a small percentage of us will be glad we do. ...

I'm sure that my co-worker was damn glad he was carrying that morning in Tampa.

He could have used his 20 years of experience in karate to stop the attacker but there is a good possibility that he might have been injured. As my jujitsu instructor told our class, "If you get in a fight with a knife fighter, expect to get cut."

The mugger should also be thankful that my co-worker had a gun. Otherwise he would have undoubtedly ended up in the hospital. He might also have learned a valuable lesson about mugging people on the street in Florida. You never know who is packing. Perhaps after the incident he decided to pursue a different career in the crime professions.

[Hoyt]

7. Glad I don't live in your world, where every tree might hide someone waiting to mug you.

[spin]

8. You have a great imagination about how I feel. ...

I do practice "situational awareness" which basically means that I don"t walk down dark streets with a cell phone glued to my ear.

I learned this many years ago from my jujitsu instructor. He told the class, "If you are merely alert to your surroundings, you will avoid 99% of violent encounters.

That may be largely because street predators love the advantage of surprise when they attack. Many have also learned that if a person is alert, he may just be the type of individual who is packing a concealed handgun. The last thing any mugger wishes to do is to run into an armed individual. Human predators are quite similar to predators in the animal kingdom as they both look for the weakest members of the herd.

"Situational awareness" is a lot like defensive driving. Instead of texting on your phone you simply watch the other cars. You don't do stupid things like tailgate or ride in the "blind spot" of another driver. You anticipate danger and watch the road ahead.

I've used defensive driving during the 50 years that I have had a license. So far the only accidents I have been in when behind the wheel have been when I was sitting still in a traffic jam and some fool rear ended me. This has happened three times and I knew that it would before it occurred as I was watching my rear view mirror.

But I enjoy driving and have no fear of being in an accident. Defensive driving is something I do as a game. I try to predict what the driver in front of me or beside me is going to do and I often surprise passengers when I anticipate the car in front of me suddenly changing lanes. I know when there are problems ahead as I watch for red tail lights in the distance.


My situational awareness on the street has also became a fun game. People are fascinating and it is amazing how many things you notice about those around you if you just pay attention. Of course if I sense any danger, I grow more alert and do my best to avoid a bad situation. The best way to avoid getting hurt in a fight is not to get into one.

But I have no problems with your belief that you know my emotional state when I am in public. If you wish to play an amateur psychologist you can enjoy yourself all you want. I would suggest that you keep your day job as it appears that your knowledge of human nature is somewhat lacking.

[Daninmo]

5. All people have rights

IMO, all citizens who can pass the background check should be able to get a CCW license. Aren't all created equal, or just the people in rural areas are allowed to protect themselves?

If you hate guns, that is your right, but just because some are afraid of guns shouldn't take away my right. Some people are afraid of fast cars and airplanes too.