I need a new computer, and am depressed at my options.

[adigal]

I have had a MacBook for three years, great machine, no problems, no viruses. My dog hit me and a bowl of cereal fell on the keyboard. I would buy an I-Pad, but will not after hearing these reports. But what computer is not made in China??

I heard apologists say that an i-phone or i-Pad would cost $50 more than now if made in America, and that Americans wouldn't pay that. That is BS!!! I would pay $50 for their products to be made in America, by unions or with stock options for the workers. Apple's consumers are generally pretty aware of things, and I think most of us would pay a little more - the price is already ridiculous compared to PCs, so at least we would be supporting our own.

This whole thing pisses me off and depresses me. Even when we try to do the right thing, it seems we have no choices.

Edited to add: I tried to get it fixed but the screen and keyboard are damaged, it would cost $800 and there is no guarantee they could fix it.

[justiceischeap]

1. You could try getting yours fixed

that way you aren't compounding the problem, the Apple Genius' are American...

[SharonAnn]

13. Check ebay for parts, components, or replacements. I just bought one for parts

since the hinge to my laptop screen broke.

For under $40 I get a laptop without hard disk or CD drive, but I don't need those. I might just move my CD drive and hard disk to this replacement machine. It might be easier than replacing the hinge.

There are lots of older model computers for sale, some just for parts.

[Indydem]

2. The $50 is inconsequential.

Apple (and other companies) have decided that American workers are not flexible, agile, or useful enough for them to do business with.

It's the same reason foreign car companies have long had an "advantage" over American car companies.

Our workforce,and our businesses, are too slow to respond to innovations and changes,and it's getting them left in the dust, unfortunately.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/article?a=899332&f=115&p=0

There is an important story in there about Foxconn putting 8000 workers to task adding screens to iphones.

I doubt an American company could get 8000 workers to show up to work in a timely manner these days.

[Snake Alchemist]

4. Anti-American worker propaganda. nt

[Indydem]

6. Obviously

There could be absolutely no truth to it.

Apple has a long record of being anti-American and anti worker. They are truly the most non-progressive company, ever.

/sarcasm

[LiberalArkie]

34. about “$10 or less in direct labor wages goes into an iPhone or iPad is paid to Chinese workers.”

http://www.cultofmac.com/143854/almost-all-of-your-iphone-was-made-in-america/


A report written by three U.S. professors showed that only about “$10 or less in direct labor wages goes into an iPhone or iPad is paid to Chinese workers.” The report points out that while Apple products — including components — are manufactured in China, the primary benefits go to the U.S. economy because Apple continues to keep most of its product design, software development, product management, marketing and other high-wage functions in the U.S., not China. China’s role is more of an assembler.

[bahrbearian]

9. You really beleive that nonsense?

[Indydem]

12. Yes, I do.

Apple is nothing, if not marketing geniuses. If making a device in the United States was possible, plausible, and only added 30% to the cost of that device, Apple would be building factories as fast as possible. To be honest, they might even keep the price the same just to drive sales.

Apple (from my observations) doesn't particularly care about making money. Obviously they want to, but it doesn't drive them like others. The 30% premium just doesn't change the fact that America no longer has many of the technologies (and workforce) required to make these products.

This article makes a lot of points necessary to understand the manufacturing process:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2011/08/17/why-amazon-cant-make-a-kindle-in-the-usa/

[MattBaggins]

35. So we should

live in chained cages at the factories we work at away from our families so that we can get up in the middle of the night when they rattle our now literal cages?

[Indydem]

43. No.

We should stop worrying about trying to compete with a situation in which we cannot hope to compete (for several reasons) and move on to bigger and better things.

[MattBaggins]

53. tariffs

[Indydem]

54. Tariffs?

Tariffs are not competing. They are bullshit. Get with reality.

[sharp_stick]

10. Foxconn can do it

simply because they all live in foxconn dorms and can be easily awakened to go to their 12hr/day 6day a week shithole workstation at anytime of the day or night so Steve Jobs and Co. can keep their launch date while completely changing the screen design from the originally agreed upon contracted one.

In addition they are just hunky dory with using faster evaporating hexane to clean screens at a much higher rate than methanol and leaving aluminum dust floating around ready to explode.

Just give the republicans a full mandate and I'm sure this same kind of worker treatment will be quickly allowed here.

[jonthebru]

15. I really disagree with this statement.

I'm a worker and have been for a very long time. My stepson is 22 years old and he hasn't worked for very long but works hard and sticks to what he is doing.
To infer that American workers are some sort of collective primadonna group is very unfair. If the company they worked for was in need of a special shift for something like this, workers would gladly turn up; maybe not on Christmas day or Superbowl Sunday but they would do their best to contribute to the well being of the production.
There are millions of Americans who show up when needed in mass and do the job they are required to do.
Face it, the overseas manufacturers move overseas because the labor is cheap, really cheap and can be treated literally like slaves.
Add the lax environmental laws and it is an invitation for their bottom line for their owners.

[Indydem]

19. Please read the article I posted.

It is very revealing about the swiftness and agility of the chinese workforce in getting things done.

Americans just cannot match that.

It's not the cheap labor (which sure as heck doesn't hurt the profit margin) it has a lot more to do with how quickly the industrial machine in China can adapt to changes.

[MattBaggins]

37. No it is the cheap labor

it ties into the fact that they are slaves.

[msongs]

29. exactly - any jobs can be filled if the pay is right nt

[Starry Messenger]

32. Horse apples. Steve Jobs' lack of knowledge about glass led to stupid labor practices.

If he wasn't a short-sighted sociopath, there would have been no reason to offshore his computer manufacturing.

[Warren Stupidity]

56. The tasks these workers a doing could be easily automated.

Chinese labor is cheaper than automation. We didn't get 'left in the dust' because foxconn workers are so highly skilled and motivated, they are cheap and infinitely replaceable and hired to perform unskilled repetitve manufacturing processes that really no human should be doing.

Japanese auto manufacturers engineered quality and durability into their products at a time when our domestic industry was doing exactly the opposite as they designed for a two year 50,000 miles purchase cycle. They ate our lunch over that, and the industry blamed labor costs and attitudes when the problem was in the front office. Eventually they figured out that people wanted cars that could last for 200,000 miles of use and survived (with periodic rescue operations.)

[Indydem]

58. Automation makes the situation worse.

Do you know what it takes to re-tool an automated assembly line?

If you think that American companies buying futuristic assembly machines that will equalize China's labor advantage will FIX THE REAL PROBLEM, you are in error.

I seriously do not understand why people do not realize the labor costs is the absolute least of our problems.

[jberryhill]

3. Buy the Apple and donate the $50 extra to an appropriate organization

....which either works to support a labor movement in China or the US.

[Nye Bevan]

18. I was just thinking that. Almost like buying carbon credits.

Does anyone have any ideas for a suitable organization?

[HopeHoops]

5. No computer can be made in America. We don't make the basic parts.

They can be ASSEMBLED here, but the parts are almost all of foreign origin, mostly China. I'm afraid it is one of those "just deal with it" situations. I wish it was otherwise.

[sudopod]

26. Final assembly is where the slave labor comes in.

People who work in chip fab clean rooms get decent wages, by comparison. It takes educated professionals to manage a god damn x-ray lithography machine.

Wish harder. :/

[eShirl]

49. and we don'tmake the basic parts here because...

(besides the cost) nobody makes computers here

[HopeHoops]

51. We have the same problem with shoes. New Balance went through a court battle over it.

While absolutely everything in their shoes (caveat: they do have lower-end models made in China) was made and assembled in America, the ONLY component they couldn't acquire was the actual sole. There were no longer any manufacturers in the US that made them. They were still using the "Made in USA" label and were sued for false claims. Their argument was simple: we can't get it here and we don't make it ourselves, but we would buy it from a US company if it existed, as they did in the past.

New Balance won the case, partially because there was the precedent of foreign auto makers calling their cars "US Made" even when they were shipping in fully assembled engines, transmissions, and other major parts to be incorporated into vehicles that were assembled in the US.

Computer companies don't have a prayer. Sure, you can assemble a computer here in the US, but the only component you will probably find that's made here is a power supply, but that's unlikely. The chips, CPUs, cards, motherboards, hard drives, memory sticks, CD/DVD drives, screens, batteries, chargers, and damn near every other essential part are without domestic manufacturers. It's even hard to find a US made chassis source. We used to make all of that, but it's gone and probably for good.

Whether you blame the EPA or praise the EPA, that's part of the reason. Making that stuff produces some really toxic shit. That more than cost of production was one of the original reasons for outsourcing to countries that don't give a damn about pollutants. Then it became a price war that drove the manufacturing right over the waters of the Pacific.

A scene from the third "Back to the Future" movie comes to mind:

Doc: "Well here's your problem. It says 'Made in Japan' on it."
Marty: "Wadda ya mean, Doc? All the best stuff's made in Japan."
Doc: "GREAT SCOTT!"

[freefaller62]

7. Buy Used?

After Apple changed their BIOS I found a good deal on a 13" MacBook Pro
from a tekkie who wanted the newer version. It replaced my Fujitsu - which
is a very, very nice laptop. By the way, Fujitsu's customer service is in
the US. Real humans answer the phone. There's something to be said for that.

[Metatron]

50. Buying used is my suggestion as well n/t

[blogslut]

57. Another vote for buying used/refurbished computers

There are some sweet deals on great machines out there. "New" isn't always better.

[Brickbat]

8. You do what you can. There are plenty of options for a lot of products. Computers are a hard one.

If you focus on the made-in-USA alternatives for other products, you're doing what you can. Clothes, cars, foodstuffs, everyday consumer goods -- there are lots of options for those type of things.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. I Bought A HP LapTop At Wal-Mart For $298.00

It replaced the one I had to pawn in July to make ends meet.

[frazzled]

16. HP is made in China, just like Apple

So there is no moral high ground there.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. I Bought It Because It Was All I Could Afford

It was cheaper than driving to the library to use their computers.

[frazzled]

23. That's fine, I didn't mean to criticize your choice

It's just because it's in a thread asking what to buy because of China issue that I pointed out the fact.

[itsrobert]

14. Just go ahead and get a new MAC or IPad, etc

I am not an Apple fanboy and think their products are very overrated, but there is no way you are going to get pass the fact that the vast majority of computers and their parts are made in China.

And don't donate the extra $50 for China, keep that money in the US, donate it to a homeless shelter or other US charity.

[TheManInTheMac]

20. Nobody "needs" a computer.

Sorry, but if you can't stomach the way a product is made, why would you consider purchasing it?

And whether you buy a Mac or a PC, they are all going to be made by the same slave labor. Let the computer manufacturers know that you will not purchase their products until they are made in the USA, by union employees who own the company.

[leftyohiolib]

36. you do if u r on un-employment

[ohheckyeah]

40. Really?

In this day and age there are many reasons to need a computer. I work from home - I need a computer to do the work that I do. Anyone who wants to be competitive in the job market needs computer skills and those are pretty damn hard to have if you don't ever use a computer.

[leftyohiolib]

21. apologists use crap excuses like that to try to justify their wants and keep their concience clear

then usually comes the list of companies that also have bad practices as if that makes buying i-crap from that parasitic manufacturer ok

[Bonhomme Richard]

22. At least Apple's customer service is here and......

if you have a problem you can go to an Apple store.
Everything these days is made with cheap labor.

[FarCenter]

24. 90% of laptops are manufactured by Taiwanese companies

The only other major maufacturer is Samsung.

The largest manufacturers are Quanta, Compal, Wistron, Pegatron, and Hon Hai (which owns Foxconn).

Apple, HP and Dell don't manufacture anything.

Final assembly is often in China, so China is the locaiton of manufacture. However, subassemblies (LCDs, processors, memory modules, hard drives, power supplies, batteries, etc.) are likely to come from a variety of Asian and American sources (e.g. Intel). The lower tech bits, like keyboards, switches, connectors, hinges, cases, buttons, etc. are likely to be Chinese.

If you look at the units in a store, such as Best Buy, you should be able to find some units not made in China. At least some Dells used to be made in Malaysia. But I don't know whether there is any final assembly outside China for most brands.

[Shankapotomus]

25. I have a fix

I'm really serious. Buy an iPad. From the serial number and QC identification see if you can find out, with Apple's or Foxconn's help which which shift and which workers assembled your iPad. Try and obtain their names and contact information. Then send them each a little extra money of your own accord.

[adigal]

38. This is a great idea!!

Do you think I could really find out who made it?? That would be wonderful!

[Shankapotomus]

47. Maybe a contingent of concerned consumers

could be formed and go tour the factories and offer outside aid to the workers?

[sudopod]

27. It won't be long before someone recognizes the market for cruelty-free computing.

It will take a few years though. In the meantime, you could search ebay and craigslist for a nice used system, or even get a refurbished one from the store. That way, you can make sure that you're not personally adding to some poor bastard's workload.

[adigal]

39. Right? I think many people would flock to that company

I would gladly buy a computer from that company.

[sudopod]

41. Starbucks has made a killing on the idea with respect to coffee, haven't they? nt

[msongs]

30. build your own computer if its a desktop...easy to do

all you need is a cross point screw driver, parts, and a guide which can be found on the internet. Don't think you can build your own laptop though.

[itsrobert]

33. Except all the parts of the computer are made in China

and other abusive labor countries.

[TheWraith]

31. There are no computers not made, at least primarily, in China.

My advice is this: go online and buy a used Thinkpad. Yes, it's made in China, by Lenovo, which is the same company that made them for IBM when IBM owned the Thinkpad brand. However, Lenovo has a spectacular reputation for quality, and they charge accordingly. This is not "China cheap" crap, it's a laptop as well manufactured as any, short of military-spec rugged equipment.

[TheKentuckian]

42. Maybe a S Korean producer is out there??? I would think conditions would be improved.

Of course there may not really be such an animal to be had other than label like we have with our companies.

It may be a 100% Chinese slave (or similar located in a different border) industry now.

[jsmirman]

46. Please see my post on South Korea and Brutality to Dogs

(and cats)

I posted extensive information in the "buy samsung" thread - which is a thread I could not disagree with more strongly.

The South Korean government's shameful duplicity in signing international agreements to ban the practice and then allowing such a disgusting, brutal industry to flourish is a disgrace.

I don't buy South Korean unless I make a mistake.

[Initech]

44. Go the DIY route. You'll get a better PC and the "I did it" self satisfaction.

You can't escape buying parts from China though. At least until the manufacturing sector comes back to the US (I doubt that will happen - one can dream though)

[BrendaBrick]

45. rank a brand.org

Here's an interesting website: http://www.rankabrand.org/

"Compare how transparent, green and fair your favorite brands are!

About Us

1001 brands

How transparent, green and fair are your favourite brands? At a glance you will see this at Rank a Brand, the largest brands comparison website in Europe! We are fast on track to get 1001 brands in our database, and we love to see all brands become more open, green and fair.

What comes from far…?!

Have you ever realized that a real person somewhere far away picks your bananas, sews your t-shirt and solders your mobile phone? Unimaginable many products come from distant countries as China, India, Kenya, Ghana and Bangladesh. Beyond our sight countless workmen are working too many hours for too little money, forests are chopped, soils are worn-out and major rivers are already polluted. You do not see anything of these severe conditions reflected in shiny packages and pretty advertisements. But luckily there is a brand on all products.

Open Sesame

Rank a Brand assesses the green and fair policy that brands have published on their website on the basis of a sharp question list. Brands that are not open are not able to earn points, brands that do justify publicly do earn points. Slick marketing language does not score points, well-founded information does. Our regular topics include: labour conditions, environment and climate.

You

Rank a Brand wants to contribute to a better world, so do you, so why don’t we do this together? You can send an encouragement email to most brands through our website to make your statement. Also, with our information you have the power to choose for brands that show that they care about fair labour conditions, a clean environment and a stable climate. The more people choose for the highest ranked brands, the greater the incentive is for companies to be more open, green and fair. How this works exactly, you will see in the image below:

[marlakay]

48. Have someone build you a computer

do you know any geeks? My cousin use to be programer and makes through out the years all of his computers. I have heard there are places that will build them for you for sometimes less than price of regular ones.

The parts could be made over there but at least it would be built here.

[Motown_Johnny]

52. Systemax are built in Ohio

http://www.computersmadeinusa.com/

^snip^


In America we still make a lot of great products

And your next computer is one of them



Our featured supplier is Systemax. With a manufacturing facility in a small Ohio town, Systemax builds reliable desktops, notebooks and servers. They use high quality components but are still able to compete with foreign made brands on price. We use Systemax computers to develop and maintain this site, and have been very happy with them.


Systemax computers aren’t just made by American workers, they’re supported by them too. Systemax features 24/7 tech support, based right here in the United States. We’re sure they’re friendly and helpful, but we have no experience with them, since we’ve never had to call them!

And finally Systemax has a policy never to outsource an American job. They are committed to building and supporting high quality computers in the USA. For us, this is an important reason why we recommend Systemax. Some companies will tout being Made in the USA today, but then outsource tomorrow. We can support Systemax because we believe they will continue to make computers in America.

[adigal]

55. I will check them out. Thank you! n/t

[fadedrose]

59. Try a small but busy computer shop

I love the place where I go if I need a repair, and they have enough good parts to assemble a whole almost new computer for less than $200. Nothing fancy. Call around and ask.

At my age, though, I'm not looking for one to last another 10 years. Each day is a blessing.