General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPerspective for Apple Haters, re: Foxconn/Boycott. Tweeted by Steven Fry...
Less than 25% of Foxconn's production is for Apple. The lion's share is for Dell, HP, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Lenovo, Samsung... pretty much every tech company out there. A part of the device you are using to read this post is likely made by Foxconn.
http://twitter.com/stephenfry/status/164504399610265600
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)so in other words, it's better to be in Alcatrazthan Auschwitz, so we should support sending children to Alcatraz.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Seriously - I never thought the 1984 Apple commercial was foretelling its own future bullshit.
Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)As long as I get my Apple cult products. Way to live up to the myth fanboyz.
Booooooooo.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)I gots to to get me a piece of some iCrap now.
Wow let's wave Apple propaganda around and promote them.
FSogol
(45,485 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)They don't give a crap about anything but their Apple brand electronics. It's exactly like drug addiction.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)It was made in part by Foxconn. I trust you are Foxconn free.
tridim
(45,358 posts)The major parts are from Taiwan.
I'll be buying a new MB and CPU soon, and will not buy foxconn built products. As a non-fanboy I have that choice.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Track down every circuit and processor in the drives, the power, each switch, screw, and wire.
Then do the same for every piece of electronics in your life. Your refrigerator, your thermostat, your microwave, your car, your bedside clock.
You are not Foxconn free and you are certainly not Chinese labor free.
Nice try.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Which is it? Both?
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Surely you are Foxconn free.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)In contrast to you.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Hard drives are from Japan. Pro sound card, Taiwan. CPU and GPU, no idea.
Of course you discount the fact that my PC's aren't ASSEMBLED at Foxconn by slaves, they are assembled by me in America. Typical Apple apologist coping mechanism.
At the very least I'm trying to avoid using components manufactured by slaves and not apologizing for the mother corporation.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Blackberrys for instance, are made in 'Canada.'
That is if China is a Canadian province. The assembly is done in Canada, which is typically 10% of production.
And Asus, like just about every technology company, is a client of Foxconn.
When you have disassembled your hard drive from 'Japan' and your sound card from 'Taiwan' and have tracked down every single sub-contractor that made the individual parts of these components, get back to me.
Additionally, less than ten percent of the 'cost' to make an iPhone goes to Foxconn. 90% of the cost happens here in the U.S.
Can you say the same about your Asus product? Asus, like Foxconn, is a Taiwanese company, btw.
Your Asus was made in China.
tridim
(45,358 posts)The Asus OEM MB's I buy are manufactured at the Asus plant.
There are no MB's or CPU's manufactured in America, if there were I'd buy them. I'm not sure what you're driving at here, it is off topic.
Again, you're discounting the business I take away from the Foxconn sweat shops by choosing not to do business with major manufacturers like Apple and Dell that assemble their systems from top to bottom at Foxconn. When you choose Apple, you are stuck with the assembly plant they choose for you. You pay a 200% markup for that 'privilege', I don't.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)A certain province in China...in fact, Foxxcon most likely since they're the biggest producer.
I will give you points for trying.
But you see, tv components, telephone components, mostly any electronics you have at home...or do you build your tv and phone too?
Time to step away from the hate for a single company (in this case the dang tree) and look at the forest.
It is the slavery stupid, and to stop it Chinese need a union movement and we need strong regulations forbidding doing business with countries that allow slave like conditions.
FSogol
(45,485 posts)I saw one the other day where the guy was representing his family using the Apple logo.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)1. Suicides - over what time period? What is the "national average"? Is it controlled for the same demographic mix as that which work at Foxconn? And so forth.
2. There are a million workers at Foxconn? Is this stratified by industry?
3. What is the cost of living? Is this a real or nominal amount? Shouldn't the median be used? Is salary the ONLY metric used for worker wellbeing?
Finally, I thought the rabid defenders of the Holy Apple told us that Foxconn makes all sorts of stuff for other corporations. Why then does this fucking idiot Fry surmise from this highly misleading data that one should "buy Apple?" Makes no sense.
Epic fail, whoever-the-fuck Fry is.
Response to tridim (Reply #6)
Tesha This message was self-deleted by its author.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Response to tridim (Reply #47)
Tesha This message was self-deleted by its author.
dmallind
(10,437 posts)Never bought into the Mac-I-faddism but, presuming the numbers are accurate, how should they be refuted? I've been to China quite a few times and been to dozens of plants large and small - albeit not this particular one. I saw no chains. I did see lots of applicants to get jobs there. Why are those people wrong?
Romulox
(25,960 posts)"But others in China are even MORE exploited!"
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Kim Kardashian is not the be-all and end-all of fame out there. You should broaden your horizons.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)I hope he hears some feeback about this and realizes his mistake in repeating that Forbes nonsense.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"who thinks worker exploitation is justifiable..."
As does anyone who uses modern electronic equipment, the only difference being in degrees. However, I realize we all rationalize our own habits-- quite often at the expense of the habits of others.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Stephen Fry (and his defenders ) are.
BTW, noticed you ran away from your (bizarre!) claim that Al Gore isn't on Apple's Board of Directors; he is.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)This seems very out of charachter for him. Perhaps it was another Stephen Fry.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)So I considered the matter settled!
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)...and although they are way, way behind Apple in 'tablet' sales, the sheer number sold may be more units than anything made for Dell and HP.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)bowens43
(16,064 posts)they oppose freedom. they lock down their devices. they prevent those who purchase their hardware from utilizing them in any manner they choose. they actively seek to stifle competition by initiating ridiculous and baseless patent violation lawsuits.
they are every bit is evil as microsoft.
open source = open mind
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)joeybee12
(56,177 posts)about Poland.
I'm trying to find out if he works for Apple in some capacity, appears in their ads...the whole thrust of his post is, Apple doesn't suck like the rest...and he got this info from Forbes, hardly an innocent bystander.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)If you use apple products and you think they should not be made with slave labor you damn well have a right to complain to them about their practices.
Since most of us have used everything from I-Tunes to iphones what do you want us to do, just say 'well, we expect this from apple and others, we are just like dell' - like that is something to be proud of.
Apple fanboys are deranged.
Old and In the Way
(37,540 posts)Lay them off!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/01/foxconn-robots-replace-chinese-workers
This headache with worker exploitation will be dealt with by creating a laborless workforce. I'm sure that will help the average Chinese worker. Dumping a half million workers won't collapse the average wage paid in the rest of the non-Foxconn factories, either.
think
(11,641 posts)Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)And therefore doesn't require polishing.
Designed in California - Excreted in China.
think
(11,641 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)The current Republican field is pretty good at it too.
I'd say that turd polishing is par for the course these days, though no matter how shiny it gets it is still a ball of shit.
think
(11,641 posts)katsy
(4,246 posts)ethical practices. They are out for their investors and themselves.
Unless and until all governments are taken over by populists and these corporate monsters are broken up; living wages are established worldwide; workers unions represent workers worldwide; nothing will change except the villain du jour.
Corporations should be banned from funding elections. They should be banned from influencing governments.
That is the solution. It is unrealistic to expect any corporation to not exploit people for profit.
Break up those bad boys! The world needs living wages not slave labor.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)what that Allen West basically said and ones who were blabbering that during the Chimperor's reigh of terror.
This is what people are basically saying if you gripe about Jobs being part of the 1% and they say: well, you're using a computer, arent' you! so shut up!
That would mean we can't say anything about Exxon either then, if we had a car. Or we can't complain about big Pharma because we may need that Tylenol now and then.
silliness.
I have every right to think Jobs is an asshole, even while I type it out on my Mac. It's almost karmic.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Incitatus
(5,317 posts)Incitatus
(5,317 posts)They are building computer products at Foxconn. Is that being compared to all workplaces in America that include farming, mining, building heavy machinery ,etc?
onehandle
(51,122 posts)...to the building of computer products here in the U.S.?
I think not.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Doesn't matter who else is buying from Foxconn or what their real rate of accidents and suicides is or how much worse the conditions may be at other workplaces. It's still a forced labor camp and Apple is still a valid target. Fry is telling the forced laborers to shut up and be grateful because conditions are worse elsewhere. This is a step away from "let them eat cake."
The accompanying graphic is disgusting, smug, and eminently illogical. Cost competition is so dominant nowadays because states drank the "free trade" Koolaid and economies have been tailored to the neoliberal dictates where every worker in the world must compete against every other. Higher wages in China would mean more of the product could be consumed at home. Even Henry Ford a century ago understood the utility of living wages for the labor, today's capitalists have fallen behind that standard.
Oh, and who cares what Stephen Fry thinks? He's a good comic, but any authority he has in economics would have to come from strength of argument and this one lacks it.
Sea-Dog
(247 posts)but I'm sure I've seem him shout out about his love of all things Apple before
marlakay
(11,468 posts)with made in america on products and when they see a good portion of us are willing to pay a bit more to have it made here with american workers they will continue to keep at least part of production here.
we can do it
(12,184 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)Someone on MSNBC said that it will begin in earnest as soon as 2015.
Here's hoping.
we can do it
(12,184 posts)Response to onehandle (Original post)
MichaelMcGuire This message was self-deleted by its author.
airplaneman
(1,239 posts)Somebody tweets something on twitter and everyone believes it must be true?
Check out Wikipedia on this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China
snip:
"According to the journal Culture, Medicine and Psychiatry, there are over 300,000 suicides in China annually."
So where did the 220 come from?
So who do you want to believe?
-Airplane
edit:spelling
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)25% of Foxconn's production is a larger individual share than any other single company whose products are also manufactured in those factories.
And not a single component in my PC was manufactured by Foxconn; I bought the components separately and assembled them myself.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Track down every circuit and processor in the drives, the power, each switch, screw, and wire.
Then do the same for every piece of electronics in your life. Your refrigerator, your thermostat, your microwave, your car, your bedside clock.
You are not Foxconn free and you are certainly not Chinese labor free.
Nice try.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)How about your cell? Your oven? How abou your microwave? Do you have a gaming console?
And given how many COMPONENTS were assembled in CHINA....
Get some perspective...this is a PRODUCTION SYSTEM, ad that is the forest.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Seriously?
Read the article. What a callous, evil point of view, and justification.
If I didn't know better (that Apple apologists were truly deluded about the product), I'd think the image was an intentional troll.
"Support the workers. Buy Apple."
econoclast
(543 posts)In an age where just about all electronics come from Asia...check out Velocity Micro. PCs are assembled in Richmond Virginia. Of course the components come from all over. But Velocity Micro is a fine first step for those seeking an alternative to 100% sweatshop electronics.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)90% of your PC's production was done in Asia.
Although, 10% is better than nothing.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Assembly is the last stage of production.