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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt really doesn't matter whether people approve of OWS
Last edited Wed Feb 1, 2012, 08:24 PM - Edit history (5)
OWS isn't running for office. OWS isn't applying for a job. And nobody looks to OWS to know what to think.
It is a disorganized protest movement. The real message of OWS is the existence of OWSa bunch of people who are not Republicans are upset enough to march around and camp out in inclement weather and genrally raise a ruckus.
In practical cultural/political terms that's the message the existence of discontent. (The establishment seeks to deny the exitence of discontent so OWS is quite inconvenient.)
Mass psychology is not a huge individual psychology where an entity with coherant attitudes reasons through things. Most of the nation did not chose between Vietnam protesters and the Vietnam war. The protesters raised awareness of Vietnam and the longer you looked at the Vietnam war the worse it got. Vietnam-era protests didn't make protestors popular, they made the Vietnam war unpopular.
The public does not have organized mass-thoughts like, "I used to support the war in Vietnam then a lot of college students showed me I was wrong."
People have basic feelings like, "Controversy increases my anxiety. Protestors make a fuss. I do not like protestors. The vietnam war is controversial. I do not like hearing about the Vietnam war. I wish it went away."
And the most die-hard haters of Vietnam-era protestors found themselves hating continuously without conciously realizing that their attitude was crumbling -- at first the protestors were bad because they supported communist take-over of the world. Later they were bad because they were rubbing America's nose in the fact we were losing this pointless war that we entered with the best of intentions. And if you hated protestors infinity+1 there's only one way to get them off TV... end the war. By the end the RWers wanted out of Vietnam because it was making the hippies look good!
Modern Americans recoil from civil strife. We will ignore it whenever possible, and when we can no longer ignore it we follow a dual course of action.
1) Face-saving: Everyone makes it very plain that eveything they ever thought remains right and always will remain right and that all the troublemakers are alien. (We saw this with the Iraq war. Those originally against the war were not vindicated personally. Some became even more hated for being right! And the worst pro-war stooges retain the same high journalistic positions as before. But the war itself became immensely unpopular.)
2) Capitulation/Co-option: After jailing the protestors and Harrumphing a bunch some concessions are made. Not to the protestors (hippies!) but to mollify the underlying mass-attitudes that protest movements imply by their existence.
(Some say that FDR saved capitalism by co-opting socialism sufficiently to prevent radicalization. If so, bring it on. From today's perspective I'd be happy to be co-opted FDR style.)
In the short and fixed time-frames of electoral politics, protest movements are problematic. As cutural change agents, however, they tend to work.
Here are the potential attitudes ranked by how useful they are:
-Most useful- I love those OWS people.
-Less Useful- I hate those OWS people.
-Useless- What is OWS?
This piece is not suggesting or defending any specific unlikable OWS activity, real or hypothetical. The point is that at the end of the day it is irrelevant what people think of OWS provided they think less well of the establishment. Because that is the real point.
Zenlitened
(9,488 posts)cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Lionessa
(3,894 posts)that OWS is only important in that it's essentially the shot across the bow before more serious unrest begins? Therefore the idea that it may only be a symbol of that is enough?
Seems to me OWS has a message. The entire 99% message. 99% want political representation, financial fairness, job/wage/health security, penal and judicial integrity; all of which are lacking due to the wishes of the 10%, 1% who run everything the next lower 9% who hope join the 1% soon.
randome
(34,845 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 1, 2012, 12:12 PM - Edit history (1)
Those are concepts. Without a targeted message, OWS will continue to founder.
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)I mean it was based on the idea that there are rights for ALL not just whites.
And sufferage, pretty much the same, but for women.
How is this different except that it isn't based on gender or race? It's about rights, the rights to... re-read above post.
randome
(34,845 posts)First off, I think it's pure hubris for anyone to try and co-opt the civil rights movement and put OWS on the same level.
They are not even close.
And women's right to vote? That's a pretty basic need right there. OWS is addressing economic inequalities, which is not the same as saying that anyone of a specific gender simply has no say whatsoever.
Secondly, if OWS wants to truly represent the 99%, that's a majority, not a minority. It's a lot different from fighting for basic rights for a downtrodden group.
'Revoke corporate personhood' or 'Reinstate Glass-Teagal' or even 'Revoke the tax breaks' would all be more targeted messages than trying to take over public buildings and parks.
I'm sure some groups of OWS are getting those messages out. It would be nice if there was some organization and leadership so that those messages -or any other- would have the true impact of a national movement.
But right now there are, like, a hundred OWS groups with about seventy different messages. Not targeted at all.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)no one even knows what it wants. You wish!
edit to add: and and...they burned a flag.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)[font size=5 color=green][center]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
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randome
(34,845 posts)EFerrari
(163,986 posts)xchrom
(108,903 posts)cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)the OP is an organizational mess but with a sound point of view. I am glad you took the time to see it for what it means.
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)Because that reflects on people's opinions about any message they choose to put forward. Right now the message being conveyed by Oakland is that complaining about economic inequality is tied to violent kooks who hate America. That's what Occupy Oakland just told the country.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Every peasant revolt is the same. The revolt is put down. The leaders of the revolt are hung in public.
The aristocracy then makes concessions with the face-saving understanding that "we are doing this despite the peasant revolt, not because of it."
And some people who are clueless about how societies work point to the revolt leaders on the gallows and say, "See, they lost."
The list of demands in the Communist Manifesto reads like the 1956 Republican Party platform. Mostly stuff we take for granted. But the communists never won in the industrialized world. They were hated. They were unpopular. And they were co-opted precisely because they were worse than the alternatives.
After dealing with the local communists the socialists don't seem so bad. "We can do business with you people... not like those communists."
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Mopar151
(9,983 posts)"There is somebody out there, that I can identify with, that is as mad as I am about economic injustice. The 99% is ME!"
I know a pretty broad spectrum of people - millionaires to derelicts. Thanks to OWS, they know who the enemy is now. The car dealer that had his lines of credit dissappear overnight knows he's not alone, and the same class of people who screwed him screwed the factory hand who's trying to hold on to his double-wide, 4 kids, wife and a decent life on unemployment, food stamps, and hauling junk out of backyards.
My Fox-watching ex-boss "gets" OWS, because he sees people he identifies with doing their best to be heard, and their best to be polite and curteous about it. He knows there are bad apples in any crowd big enough that their voice will be heard - but he is very impressed that the vast majority of Occupy protesters are positive and self-policing. But they will be heard! He's very much a flag-waver - but the Veterans March (and Oakland cops starting the riot) converted him.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Thus the EEK! response to some of their actions.