General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAn indication of change in the party preference of Latinos?
I heard in a teevee discussion of Catholicism in Latin America where many Catholics are moving to various evangelical denominations and that the Catholic Church in Latin America is declining as a result.
Today I heard the same thing from a completely different source about US Latinos. Religion is very important to them, but the Catholic Church isn't cutting it. They, too, are moving to evangelical sects.
It occurs to me - and I may well be wrong in this assumption - that if the Catholic Church isn't sufficiently religious(?) for people and they choose to move to evangelical religions, that would signal an increasing conservatism, not a liberalization. Can that translate to an increasing general leaning toward increased conservatism, and does that portend poorly for Democrats in secular elections?
PLEASE: THIS NOT ABOUT RELIGION. It is about politics. Please address the issue and refrain from pitting one view against another.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)maybe that'll change the dynamics.
Stinky The Clown
(67,807 posts)I expect the new pope could have some impact on stemming these alleged losses of church members. That's not the point.
Is the exodus to evangelical religions - presumably conservative - an indication of a growing conservative lean among US Latinos?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)It's not.
Perhaps they are joining because women have a larger role in those churches? Because birth control is not forbidden? Because divorce is allowed? Some of those churches are even inclusive of LGBT people when the RCC is anti gay in a vehement way, the RCC is what the Pope says it is, anti gay, anti birth control, divorce forbidden, no role for women that is not subservient to men...
Stinky The Clown
(67,807 posts)You could have said what you said, and made your point just as well, but in a less confrontational way.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)....I thought they were pretty good questions/observations, or am I also being too confrontational?
Stinky The Clown
(67,807 posts)How's that?
If you want to pick a fight, find someone else. I'm not engaging.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)....because you got pissed at someone else? What's your problem? Isn't this still a discussion board?
If you don't want to engage, then just put me on ignore because I'm not going to stop asking questions.
Have a great night.
Hestia
(3,818 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)I think the Catholic Church would come out ahead on that score.
And it seems to me (although I have no hard numbers) that the real anti-abortion zealots come more from the hardline evangelical camp. And a lot of the gay hate, too.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)Juhem Navarro-Rivera, a research associate at the Public Religion Research Institute, says his data shows 18 percent of young Latinos claim to have no religious affiliation, and he thinks that number will grow. This has accelerated since 2008. The difference was not so large, says Navarro-Rivera.
This follows the general trend in the U.S. with more and more young people deciding religion is not relevant to their lives, according to another Pew Poll also from last year.
Its not just Latinos; the 2012 Millennial Values Survey indicates many young Americans aged 18 to 24identified in the survey as millennialsare leaving their childhood faith and ending up mostly unaffiliated. Overall, college-age millennials are more likely than the general population to have no claim to a religion.
http://religions.pewforum.org/reports
The survey finds that the number of people who say they are unaffiliated with any particular faith today (16.1%) is more than double the number who say they were not affiliated with any particular religion as children. Among Americans ages 18-29, one-in-four say they are not currently affiliated with any particular religion.
People moving into the unaffiliated category outnumber those moving out of the unaffiliated group by more than a three-to-one margin. At the same time, however, a substantial number of people (nearly 4% of the overall adult population) say that as children they were unaffiliated with any particular religion but have since come to identify with a religious group. This means that more than half of people who were unaffiliated with any particular religion as a child now say that they are associated with a religious group. In short, the Landscape Survey shows that the unaffiliated population has grown despite having one of the lowest retention rates of all "religious" groups.
You can also look at the experience of black Americans and political affiliation.
African-Americans are also consistently among the Democrats' strongest faction - and this is based upon the alignment of the Republican Party with racists after the Civil Rights Act. There's nothing to suggest that the Republican Party of old white guys has anything to offer immigrants and their descendants either. The Republican stance on immigration has not endeared them to the people who make up the largest group of immigrants to the U.S.
Issues of a living wage matter for those who immigrate and work to assimiliate, as do worker protections. ALSO, many Latin Americans are of African descent.
I don't have experience living in a Latin American country, but I do have experience living in a "Catholic" country and a lot of people in those nations in Western Europe are "cultural Catholics." They christen their children, go to Midnight Mass at Christmas, but vote for social democratic candidates and support social democracy.
Liberation Theology has a tradition in Latin America - but this has been opposed by the Catholic hierarchy. Protestant evangelicals do not offer anything that aligns with that tradition in their teachings as they currently exist.
Another trend concerns education. The more education someone receives, the less likely that person is to be religiously affiliated. As immigrant children gain access to more educational resources, there's no reason to believe they would not also follow that same demographic.
We already see that Latin Americans follow the trend of "no religious affiliation" for younger people in the information, above.
http://repository.berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/120419BC-PRRIMillennialValuesSurveyReport.pdf
Only 57% of "millenials" i.d. as white. They claim identification with the Democratic Party at 33% but don't claim a party most of all (44%) - but they "lean" toward Democrats by 58%, versus 39% for the Republican Party.
THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE FOR THEM IS JOBS AND THE ECONOMY.
That's what Democrats need to pay attention to now. Minimum wage is too low. People cannot afford to rent an apt. working 40 hours a week. That's a problem for EVERYONE in this nation - that impacts everyone because this means people have little or no disposable income or they are sharing a house and don't need to purchase things for their own, etc.
So, it seems to me that the Democrats would benefit from a focus on the economy in ways that benefit the 99% rather than the 1%, if they want to secure a lasting majority in this nation.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)We are a multicultural society now. You tend to vote with your ethnicity. Republicans are the party of white people. We are not.
LeftInTX
(25,363 posts)My husband who is Mexican-American went to a Catholic school with Belgian nuns. The entire class was Mexican-American with the exception of a few Anglos. The nuns made it clear that they wanted out of there because the Belgian community was no longer there. The school closed down. This happened a lot in the 60s and 70s. Latinos were made to feel like they were "second class citizens" in the Catholic church.
The feeling of being second class citizens within the church has been going on for I don't know how long???....since the Spanish colonial period??? (I have no idea)
The flock to evangelical churches began in the second half of the 20th century.
As to how it relates to political beliefs within the US, I have no idea.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)RainDog
(28,784 posts)Is the total absence, apparently, of anyone mentioning THE most important religious demographic trend in the U.S. - and that is the numbers of young voters who do not identify with any religious group. - That's 1 in 5 adults.
That number, now, is greater than the number of African-American voters.
Maybe it's a sign of how out-of-touch people are who are talking about religion - they ignore the reality that more and more people simple don't want to have any association with them.
Maybe that's because religion in the U.S. is identified, more and more, with conservatism and the Republican Party.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/religion-america-decline-low-no-affiliation-report_n_2867626.html
"This was not happening really for decades, until around 1990 when it started to take off," Fischer told HuffPost. "One thing striking is the trend in terms of renouncing religious affiliation you might say continues to move up at a regular pace, while there is hardly any perceptible trend in the percentage of people who express atheist or agnostic beliefs."
...perhaps the most telling numbers pertained to the breakdown of the respondents' politics: 40 percent of liberals claim they have no religion, compared to just 9 percent of conservative.
"This is a product of the involvement of the religious right in American politics and the increasing connection in Americans' minds, the minds of moderates and liberals, that religion equals conservative politics equals religion," Fischer said.
The association of religion with political conservatism has hurt religion. So, honestly, churches are the ones that should be worried that their participation in American politics has driven people away from them because they support right-wing povs in a nation that is far more liberal than the Republican Party or the doctrines of Catholicism or evangelical Christianity - the two groups that are most associated with political action.
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3088891?uid=3739664&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101829267691
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)It will be interesting to see if the secular trend spreads to Latin America.
Stinky The Clown
(67,807 posts). . . . the church *ought* to be concerned about that.
Religion is not a big thing for me at all. What stared me was Matthews blathering on, wrongly, as is typical, about how many Catholics there are in Latin America and how this new pope is from there and that's where the church needs to go because it is a growth area and blah blah blah..
He was talking to some person I'd never seen before (a priest in Rome, I think) who told Matthews he was wrong and that the RC Church, in South America, was *losing* people to evangelical religions.
Then I heard this same thing today on teevee, but this time from a Mexican/American priest speaking only about the US RC Church.
Hearing it from both got me thinking . . . . and hence my question in the OP.
Apart from that, I really almost never think about the religion of which I was once a member, now more than 50 years ago.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)marmar
(77,081 posts)....... because of the civil rights and economic interests involved. They tend to be able to separate religion and politics.