The Steubenville Defense Will Center on Date Rape Not Existing

[DonViejo]

ALEXANDER ABAD-SANTOS 663 Views2:46 PM ET
The very public trial of the very publicly shamed "rape crew" will begin on Wednesday in Steubenville, Ohio, and despite pre-trial testimony from three as-yet-untried high-school athletes who say they witnessed an unconscious 16-year-old dragged around by her hands and feet, and slurring her words, and at one point lying on the ground before she was penetrated, it appears that the lawyers for Trent Mays and Ma'lik Richmond will say the case's Jane Doe consented to the whole thing. We're not kidding. "Defense attorneys believe the girl, who lived across the river in Weirton, W.Va., made a decision to excessively drink and -- against her friends' wishes -- to leave with the boys. They assert that she consented to sex," reports the Cleveland Plain-Dealer's Rachel Dissell. Richmond's attorney, Walter Madison, is getting specific, citing "an abundance of evidence here that she was making decisions, cognitive choices ... She didn't affirmatively say no."

The alleged victim is not expected to testify when the trial begins in Jefferson County juvenile court — before outside judge Tom Lipps took over for a recused judge with ties to the famed Steubenville High football team, a West Virginia judge blocked a subpoena of the girl and two other witnesses called by the defense. But that hasn't stopped Richmond's attorney from using Jane Doe's so-called "silence" against her: "The person who is the accuser here is silent just as she was that night, and that's because there was consent," Madison said.

May we take a minute, while allowing all due process to run its course, to remind America that date rape exists? That under the law, even though a woman or girl may accompany her attacker, that does not equal consent? And that, under the law, a woman or girl under the influence of drugs or alcohol, willingly or unwillingly, is not at fault for being sexually assaulted? Date rape is a felony under Ohio state law — with two mentions of controlled substances under the National District Attorney's Association classification of rape:

more
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/03/steubenville-trial-defense/62967/

[prole_for_peace]

1. She shouldn't have to "affirmatively say no".

She should have to "affirmatively say yes".

So now if someone is unable to say "no" due to being unconscious, asleep, gagged or otherwise muted it is ok to violate them.

[redqueen]

10. Women are presumed to exist in a perpetual state of YES!

That's why courts require that we somehow prove we said no.

And that's why shit like this happens.

Supreme Court releases alleged rapist because victim did not fight back enough

In 2008 Richard Fortin Jr. was convicted of sexually assaulting a highly disabled woman and sentenced to a prison term of six years, but that ruling has been overturned by the Connecticut Supreme Court and he is now a free man.

The incident originally took place in 2005 at "Success Village", a residency for disabled adults. The woman, whose name via court records is only known as L.K. is disabled with cerebral palsy, cannot verbally communicate, and is nearly immobile with very little body movement. It was alleged that Fortin forced himself on L.K. sexually, but the Connecticut Appeals Court saw the issue differently, and ruled Oct. 9 that L.K. was not "physically helpless under the state law", and therefore Fortin could not be convicted of his crime. This ruling advanced Fortin's case to Connecticut's Supreme Court.

...

http://www.examiner.com/article/supreme-court-releases-alleged-rapist-because-victim-did-not-fight-back-enough?cid=db_articles

[freshwest]

21. Thanks, I didn't have to repost that story... Good DU comments made when I posted it earlier:

Ct. Requires Disabled Rape Victim To Prove She Resisted... (‘Biting, Kicking, Scratching’)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021474289

[renate]

23. I just can't understand how four human beings could have come to that conclusion

She couldn't say no because she couldn't say yes, either! She could only move one finger!

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/10/03/connecticut-supreme-court-frees-man-convicted-of-sexually-assaulting-handicapped-woman/

From one of the comments:
The full text of the court's decision is quite stunning in its defense of ruling the victim was NOT helpless. It cites prior cases with the same ruling, such as a female victim paralized from the neck down who was ruled as NOT being helpless, another female victim who was strapped in an ambulance gurney when assaulted by an EMT. Court says in these two prior, and in the current case, the victims were not chemically anesthetized and were able to speak, screech, groan or kick to express their desire not to be raped, thus none were "helpless." To be legally "helpless" a victim must be in a coma, anesthetized, drugged into unconsciousness or dead. Paralysis, profound retardation or gagged/bound by law does not mean helpless. The court's decision does not deny the assault occurred, and physical exam by a physician did show evidence of assault, but the court blamed the state for not proving the victim helpless and thus reversed the guilty verdict. Truly a disgusting, sickening and shameful result of "justice."

I really cannot understand how, in the 21st century or at any other time, the onus is supposed to be on the victim to say no even if they are IMMOBILE and UNABLE TO SPEAK. It's the kind of ruling we'd expect from the Taliban.

[redqueen]

26. I'm not surprised by these verdicts anymore.

Girl, 15, with low IQ gang-raped under desk during class in Elmont: suit

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/girl-15-gang-raped-class-suit-article-1.1238721

[sufrommich]

28. Good Lord.

[sufrommich]

2. I wish I could find this to be unbelievable.

Lesson to be learned,get drunk and pass out at a party if you're a male,you may end up with funny drawings on your face or shaving cream on your head,do the same as a girl and you've invited the boys to rape at will. Leave with a group of girls if you're a guy,no one blinks an eye,let alone warn you not to go. Do the same as a girl,well,you were "asking for it". Same as it ever was.

[fitman]

42. I am from the Steubenville area

and not sure what is going to happen. This girl does have a "past"..I will leave it at that ...everyone knows who she is but that does not condone what these guys did to her but her past is going to come into play here.

[Skittles]

51. WTF

"she has a past" - would you EVER say that about a man? EVER????

[fitman]

62. "she has a past" - would you EVER say that about a man? EVER????

It should never be brought up against anyone man or woman..read my other replies. I'm for this girl.

[Marrah_G]

56. I don't care if she was prostitute in her "past" ( or present)

NO woman deserves to be raped... repeatedly... by multiple boys... in multiple placed.... afterwards being dumped on a lawn like garbage.

[fitman]

60. I agree 100%

I am 100% against what happened to her, and it was rape, and think it's a tragedy but her past will probably come into play by the defense lawyers...should not be but it will.

That is the world we currently live in.

[JustAnotherGen]

57. As I understand it

So did the alleged criminals that raped her.

Will the rape charge be more "legitimate" because they have all committed this crime before - tey just didn't get charged?

[kdmorris]

58. You can't fucking be serious

"she has a past"? So what... so do the assholes that raped her.

[fitman]

61. See my above reply.

You are taking my words wrong. What happened to her was a shame and a crime but the defense lawyers will bring up her past and what she was doing that night to put herself into that situation. One of the defense lawyers alluded to that on CNN several months back.

Don't attack me I'm just saying what is going to happen.

[kdmorris]

63. My apologies, then

You seemed to be defending the practice, not noting that they were going to use it to discredit her and try to get the rapists off. Of course the defense lawyers are going to bring it up. They always do, to try to get reasonable doubt introduced. But I don't condone the practice and it's a large part of the reason that many women do not report rapes. Who wants to be victimized by the system after being victimized by the rapist?

Rape is one of the few crimes where you are doing something that is only illegal sometimes (by that I mean that having consensual sex is not a crime - it's a beautiful part of life. Rape is always a crime). If the defense attorneys can make it seem like consensual sex is what happened, then the rapists get off.

I abhor this practice of trying to make it seem like it's something that it's not because it puts the victim on trial - she has to prove that it wasn't consensual sex vs the defense having to prove it was.

[siligut]

69. I am from the area as well and have never even heard of her until this case

She must be known only in certain circles.

[WilliamPitt]

73. Derp.

The poster spoke the truth. Didn't condone it, and in fact condemns it...but the defense lawyer will attack the victim mercilessly. That is fact, and as far as I know, stating facts on DU is not a bannable offense.

Shrieking demands that someone be banned because you can't read for context, however, maybe should be.

Derp.

[L0oniX]

74. That is not the way it reads!

[WilliamPitt]

75. Read posts 60 and 61

Emphasis on "read."

[L0oniX]

76. So what stopped the poster from editing for correction?

When someone posts something that initially incites a negative response maybe they should edit it. Why should the offended bother to read any farther? What? ...I have to check down thread to find corrections?

[WilliamPitt]

77. (facepalm)

Never mind. Please continue demanding that posters be banned because they don't post they way you think they should, i.e. elaborations in new posts rather than edits.

[fitman]

80. Nothing sinister going on

I posted my thoughts last night and did not frame my comment well. .. and I hope the girl get's justice..

..and forgot there is an edit button..

Jeeeesh.....

[Marrah_G]

3. This case is so disgusting

[mokawanis]

4. Cognitive choices? Didn't affirmatively say no?

That kind of talk pisses me off so much I just have utter contempt for the attorney who said it. What a dirtball.

[cali]

5. I can't believe the defense lawyers are this stupid. Do they secretly want their clients

to be found guilty?

[TDale313]

7. No, unfortunately...

I think they probably think there's a chance they can seat a jury that will buy it. It's really disgusting.

Curious if those who have taken offense/issue in various threads at the idea that we need to focus some education efforts at making sure people (particularly men) know what constitutes rape and, well, not to rape can read this and really think these are issues we're well past in our society- that everyone knows this already. Apparently not.

[atreides1]

31. Of course the jury will buy it!

Isn't the trial being held in Steubenville...that great town with the corrupt sheriff, the town prosecutor whose own son might be involved...that would be the same prosecutor that tried to talk the girl's parents out of filing charges.

Steubenville where if you do anything else but play on the high school football team you're considered less then human...and not worthy of being treated like a stray animal!

This is a show trial and if there is a guilty verdict...the sentence will be a slap on the wrist!!!

[Jamastiene]

43. Exactly!

I live in a town where football is most of the budget for the high school. The football players could do no wrong in the eyes of most of the community leaders here. I could see something exactly like this happening in my home town as well.

[msanthrope]

9. This is a defense that works. Read some Assange threads here--they are eye openers. nt

[cali]

13. I find that comparison spurious. And I've read many Assange threads here.

Why is it spurious? Well, for one thing, Assange is a political figure and a hero to many so there is a tendency (not wholly unfounded imo) to see him as having been set up. Secondly, what Assange is accused of is miles from what happened here.

[gollygee]

29. There are psychologists who are well trained and specialize in finding the right jurors

for this kind of defense.

[joeybee12]

6. Absolutely freaking amazing...

A new low.

[Solly Mack]

8. Not surprised. Disgusted. Just not surprised.

Won't be surprised if someone buys the argument either. Will be disgusted though.

[geek tragedy]

11. It's very hard for an attorney to represent rapists without being a scumbag.

Yadda yadda yadda about everyone being entitled to a legal defense, but it's very rare for those lawyers to be good at their job and good human beings. Kind of like working as a hitman for the mafia--a lack of morals is essential for doing the job, in this case furthering rape culture by trying to set legal precedent making it easier for men to rape.

[marions ghost]

79. Right

this is what people don't realize.

Plenty of lawyers are scumbags and proud of it. They make money defending scumbags. They get off on cases like this.

I don't see justice being done here, except for some kind of miracle.

[Comrade Grumpy]

81. Yadda yadda yadda?

Why don't we just lynch these guys--and their lawyers? That's what you seem to be implying.

[geek tragedy]

82. No, the point is that 'zealous advocacy' for rapists

means attacking the victim, calling her a lying, drunk, discredited whore.

That's what the defense is doing here.

Sure, it means being a good lawyer, but being a good lawyer doesn't make one a good human being.

Attorneys don't have an ethical code they must follow--they have a professional conduct code instead.

[Texasgal]

12. Disgusting!

yeah, drunk and passed out and she consented. Right. She didn't affirmatively say no. Right.

So disgusting!

[riderinthestorm]

14. The wrench in this defense is that they deliberately drugged her with rohypnol.

This defense isn't new unfortunately....

[knitter4democracy]

16. I was thinking that, too.

They drugged her!! She can't give consent when she's drugged--she didn't choose to be drugged, dragged around, and raped, for crying out loud.

These people disgust me to my core.

[geek tragedy]

15. Sadly, this is almost guaranteed to work. Rape culture thrives alongside

hero worship of athletes.

The defense's message is

she got drunk, so whatever happened to her is her own fault. Certainly football players would have assumed that. If she didn't want to have sex with them, she wouldn't have been drunk and hanging around with them. You can't blame them for reading the signal her behavior sent them.

[cali]

17. I completely disagree. I think it will backfire.

[TDale313]

20. I so hope you're right. n/t

[geek tragedy]

22. How often do hero athletes get convicted of sexual assault?

It's much easier for those immersed in rape culture to believe that the woman has behaved irresponsibly than to believe that the men/boys should suffer consequences.

If she could say the password to her phone, she wasn't too drunk to say no.

Watch--they'll get at least one juror to buy it. Could be a male juror or a female juror--but at least one will refuse to convict based on that.

[cali]

25. How often are there photographs of the victim unconscious and

being carried like a sack of potatoes?



And yes, jocks have been convicted of rape.

[maryskl]

48. No Jurors in This Case

The two teenagers accused of raping Jane Doe have been charged as juveniles. Therefore, their case will be tried in front of a juvenile court judge. There will be no jurors.

[etherealtruth]

19. You are, unfortunately, likely to be proven correct

[lumberjack_jeff]

33. Bookmarking. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

40. this isn't going to work. They're going to get the book thrown at them, and good riddance too.

Sadly, though, the coaches, sheriff and local prosecutor/mom of "rape crew member" who in various auspices either enabled, soft-pedaled the crime, tried to get the victim not to press charges, etc. probably WON'T get charged, although they should as well.

[bettyellen]

50. It could if they try and slut shame her

one of the boys who helped set her up was an ex of hers. She wasn't a virgin and now she has a whole town gossiping about her maliciously. Depends on what's allowed in.
And who the judge is friends with - its not a jury trial.

[Warren DeMontague]

54. They should be trying these "boys" as adults.

I have to believe that the spotlight on this case will prevent the crimes from being pushed under the rug or minimized. But certainly that is more reason to keep the national focus on it.

[bettyellen]

78. I want to believe it too, but everyone loves pushing the "slut wanted it" meme and it appears that

most witnesses are friends and/ or accomplices to the two kids.
I hope the judge is a good person, and doesn't allow it to become an ugly circus. And that politics doesn't play into it.

[geek tragedy]

84. Ironically, their being tried as juveniles is probably

bad for them--I've been informed via other folks here that it'll be trial by judge not jury for them as juveniles, which makes them getting away with it a lot less likely.

[Warren DeMontague]

85. it's not great if the worst that can happen to them is Juvenile hall until age 21.

Seems like a fairly inconsequential punishment, all things considered. I didn't realize they were being tried as juveniles.

Amazing, considering how willing our justice system is to throw the book at dangerous criminals like pot smokers. I'm sure if they had been busted providing pot brownies to a cancer granny, there'd be no question of trying them as adults and incarcerating them for 20, 30, 40 years.

[geek tragedy]

86. My views on young violent offenders is fairly unprogressive.

Raise of hands: who believes young offenders should be treated as children and not face long prison terms?

Okay, now keep your hands up if you'd be willing to have them as next door neighbors, even if you could avoid it.

[gollygee]

18. Not surprised

What else do they have? And they have a shot with this defense. Sadly.

[siligut]

24. There is no honest defense

It is going to be rigged.

[cali]

27. really? You know the trial will be rigged?

How prescient of you, dear.


Gad, there's a lot of bullshit in this thread.

[siligut]

30. The town tried to cover this up

I don't need ESP to see when a town is controlled by just a few people with power, dear.

[jberryhill]

35. And those "few people" are on the jury?

[siligut]

38. They have influence

Never lived in a small town, I take it?

[Jamastiene]

44. No, but those "few people" know WHO is on the jury and how they vote.

Things are like that in small town America. Those "few people" who rule a small town can do all sorts of things (and do) to retaliate against anyone who doesn't do what they want. It happens all the time.

[jberryhill]

47. Well then, why bother with the trial?

Might as well just acquit them now.

[siligut]

70. Exactly what would have happened if Anonymous hadn't become involved

This whole trial couldn't be avoided.

[dsc]

55. juries are secret ballot

that is why you had a hung jury in the Philadelphia burning case and the Medgar Evers case both of which were able to be prosecuted later due to that. If a juror chooses to remain silent during deliberations and then vote no one has any idea how he or she voted if the vote isn't unanimous.

[redqueen]

59. There won't be a jury. This will be a bench trial. nt

[whopis01]

66. What jury? There will be no jury in this trial. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. The defense attorney doesn't have much to work with.

The perps are going to jail.

[siligut]

71. Maybe you should read the article on Yahoo this morning

http://gma.yahoo.com/steubenville-rape-case-havent-heard-050751050--abc-news-topstories.html

Basically it says, the drunk girl instigated the encounter, was laughing and kissing and undressing Trent and . . .

ABC News has learned that one of the girls who picked up the alleged victim told police, "She and Trent were just lying on the couch together as if nothing happened. She looked hung over but then she got up and was completely fine."

[Doctor_J]

34. I wonder how Zim managed to drag his out for more than a year

At least these dudes are going to be tried.

[beyurslf]

36. How does one "affirmatively" say "no"?

[DollarBillHines]

39. Especially if one is un- or semi-conscious nt

[Sissyk]

37. They are entitled to a defense.

However, I'm glad this is all they have to work with. I hope the evidence is overwhelming and they spend a long long time in prison.

[fitman]

41. They won't be in jail for long.

Tried as juvi's so age 21 max in Ohio. I am from the Steubenville area and trust me 90% of the people are mad as heck about this case.

[NealK]

45. This whole thing makes me sick.

[Ohio Joe]

46. "She didn't affirmatively say no."... WTF?

I... I can't believe I'm seeing shit like that... WTF?

[Starry Messenger]

49. This case makes me want to scream.

What about the part where they urinated her and left her out on the lawn? The roofies. Ugh.

[BainsBane]

52. They won't have to look far to find people to buy into that

argument.

[davidpdx]

53. They are going to use the "she asked for it" defense?

Good luck with that. It is quite a nasty strategy. They are going for an all out acquittal it seems by trashing the victim.

Besides the pictures I wonder what other evidence they have on these two. I hope it's much stronger than simply pictures. This case still stinks to high heaven as there were many more people involved then these two.

[siligut]

64. An article on Yahoo this morning, the disinformation has started

http://gma.yahoo.com/steubenville-rape-case-havent-heard-050751050--abc-news-topstories.html

Feeling ill, the girl was taken to the bathroom where she threw up. When she emerged, a photo of her was taken that would become a flashpoint in the case. The photo shows Trent and Ma'lik's holding the girl by her arms and legs with her head hanging back. It is unclear from the picture whether her eyes are open and witness accounts conflict on the exact context of this photo.

-snip-

"She was just like laughing, we were all talking, just clowning around and that's when her ex-boyfriend was like, 'Let me get a picture of this drunk B. And that's when we took the picture," Ma'lik told ABC News.

But Ma'lik, who was seated in the front passenger seat, told ABC News that she was participating. "I turned around and I can see the flash on his phone. Trent was rubbing on her breasts and she was kissing his neck. And then he was trying to unbutton her pants," Ma'lik said.
Police would never see the video because, by the next morning, he had deleted it from his phone.

Nothing about the set-up to humiliate her, according to the article, she instigated it all.

She was drunk and wanted to party.

What girl doesn't want to be raped and peed on by the high-school football team?

Excuse me while I go back onto Yahoo and explain a few things.

[davidpdx]

88. Yeah I read that one and I agree

I think it is going to get much more nasty before the trial.

[whopis01]

67. More like the "She didn't say she didn't want it to happen"

She didn't even have to ask for it - it was assumed that she wanted it unless she proved otherwise.

Ridiculous

[davidpdx]

87. Agreed

[Dr. Strange]

65. Aaaaand, there's a motion to dismiss.

http://fox8.com/2013/03/12/motion-filed-to-dismiss-steubenville-rape-case/

In his motion, Madison said the trial would violate the due process and equal protection clauses.

[jberryhill]

68. OMG! A Defendant Filed A Motion To Dismiss!

Holy shit! No defendant in the history of ever has filed a motion to dismiss!

(of course if the defense failed to file a motion to dismiss, any conviction would be thrown out on lack of effective counsel, but, hey, let's pretend this is something unusual).

[lumberjack_jeff]

89. The verdict: guilty

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/17/justice/ohio-steubenville-case/index.html