How do you feel about sharing the road with bicyclists? How cyclist-friendly is your area?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

I live in Sonoma County, where a bill is being considered to make it easier for cyclists to sue motorists who harass them. The comments section of the local paper is filled with people who are obviously angry with cyclists. Comments include: when cyclists start to pay taxes, they can use the road (cyclists DO pay taxes, btw), cyclists should have to be licensed like drivers are, cyclists should not be able to ride on roads without a dedicated bike lane, and so on. There's also a lot of talk about cyclists who disregard road laws, and to the extent that cyclists break these laws (e.g., blowing through a stop sign), I agree with those comments. But I don't see it as a big problem, and I sure don't see it as a reason to become enraged with the general biking community. I'll admit, when I see the negative commentary about bicycling, I immediately assume the comments are coming from some 'bagger in Fresno who couldn't make it up a flight of stairs without becoming winded. That's probably unfair of me. Anyway, what are your thoughts on cyclists sharing the roads with vehicles? And how biking-friendly is your local area?

[snooper2]

1. Funny, I JUST got done watching this video, clicked on DU and saw this thread

[DisgustipatedinCA]

3. Yes. That's actually me.

I have no idea why motorists object to my biking so much.

[Nika]

8. The idiot was operating a vehicle while intoxicated, they should of called this in to the police.

[lame54]

16. how about offering him a ride...

instead of ratting him out to the cops

[Nika]

23. Nope, why enable him? He will just do it again.

I ama bicyclist and I routinely call on anyone endangering themselves and others this way.

Bicycles are not toys, and the offense is a serious one. He could not only hurt himself, he could hit a pedestrian or other cyclist and hurt them.

I do not consider this 'ratting,' I consider this as preforming a valuable public service.

[lame54]

27. it's ratting

[Nika]

30. It's illegal, and ALL drunk driving kills or maims people all the time.

I have known people hurt on our bike path system here. A good friend of mine did a header when one swerved into him and was hurt badly and his bicycle was totalled.

You need to wake up and stop enabling drunk driving.

A vehicle is a vehicle, and a drunk driver or bicycle rider belongs only one place : the local jail.

[lame54]

38. "ALL drunk driving kills or maims people all the time"

So any drunk on/in any vehicle is 100% sure to kill someone

I'm sure the real stats are quite different

[Nika]

49. Naturally not all do, I misspoke, angry at your two word answer, "that's ratting."

Statistically drunk drivers are far more likely to kill of maim. Thank you for pointing out my saying "All" drunk drivers.

The stats are bad enough to warrant a call to the police on a drunk driver. And as a serious cyclist who has seen the negative result of drunk bicycle rider, I do not appreciate your frivolous view on this dangerous behavior.

[lame54]

64. I do not appreciate your flippant attitude towards putting people in jail...

my solution was to help him
how is that frivilous - unless you are confusing it with compassion

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Most DUI offenses are expensive

But few (read repeat offenders or where injuries or death were present) actually lead to jail time.

I am sure you did not know that. And yes, DUI should have zero tolerance. The life you save might be that of the drunk.

[lame54]

77. but he wasn't driving

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. I watched the video

And in that case you call the cops to get him home...safely.

Especially in smaller towns, forget about mine, cops still do that. Yup, technically they could take him to jail. FYI my cops prefer the drunk tank to jail...it's far more cost effective and the record is gone, poof...and just in case, there are medical personnel. Most drunks sleep it off and go home. It is operated by volunteers and really saves buckoo dollars.

I was addressing what you said about DUI and jail time. IMO we are actually not tough enough, but partly we can't. Suspending drivers licenses does not work if you don't really have public transportation. But more extensive probation with mandatory treatment (AA) would be more than workable.

I will give you a country that makes our laws (DUI only) look down right slappish in hand? El Salvador, it's a capital offense.

[lame54]

80. where do you live - Mayberry?...

there is no way I would expect a cop to empathize

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. San Diego...it's police department policy, county wide

[lame54]

81. i was talking about one guy on one bike and 2 people who could have helped him...

the other DUer was talking about DUI's

[lame54]

86. So, a BUI is a misdemeanor in San Diego...

sounds like they do have some tolerance

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. No, a first time offense is a felony

So if this guy was riding that bike and ran a light, it would be treated as one. The same as if you run a red while drunk...

But a street drunk, this is the case...they prefer not to escalate them to drunk in public unless your drunk is harassing people, gets verbally abusive, or a few others. You are a happy drunk, drunk tank, you sleep it off, we forget about it.

[lame54]

98. so it could go either way...

they might treat him right

or he might take a big fall

I wouldn't subject him to that possibilty

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. The video showed a happy drunk...are you having trouble?

And you are seriously suggesting two women offer a ride to somebody they don't know?

on that one.

[lame54]

107. that's one deeped voiced woman

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. Have a good day

If you seriously cannot understand the risks in offering a ride to a perfectly good drunk stranger.

Seriously.

[Nika]

72. I am speaking about drunk drivers, and a no compromise policy is the only thing that has worked...

... to reduce drunk driving. I actually agree with you on the inappropriateness of many arrests.

I am aware of the problem you speak of. I could of been jailed many times for smoking, growing, and possessing cannabis for example. But I don't drink, and put up with a toxic alcoholic while growing up that caused me intense pain and severe problems. I also worked in bicycle shops and saw the result of drunk bicyclists. I also saw the immediate results of a drunk driver kill a novic racer during a road race here in Oregon that did not have travelling road closing to keep the packs of riders safe. I really cannot stand drunk drivers.

I don't like drunks, they have caused me dearly. I have seen them cause others dearly.

Many things I would prefer to see handled in some other way than jail. But in my experience, the mindset and life in denial of a drunk can only be pierced by the reality of the jail cell.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this point. But I agree with you that too many people are incarcerated in this country in jails and prisons.

But we will never agree on taking it easy on drunks. I really have no use for that behavior and never will.

[lame54]

76. I am referring to one guy on one bike - no car involved

[Nika]

87. A car CAN be involved. All he has to do is pedal his intoxicated litle self in the way of one and be

run over, or cause a car to swerve into another care, pedestrian, or bicyclist to avoid him.

[lame54]

92. that's why you offer him a ride...

to me - concern about someone does not equal jailing them

[Nika]

99. ... which will not cure him from riding drunk at three in the afternoon.

He needs a wake-up call. And I would rather have the short term pain of a drunk driving conviction than the eventual death and injury of him, or someone else because he is in such utter denial concerning the serious consequences of his behavior.

[HappyMe]

45. I would be more worried the drunk on a bike would

fall in front of a car.

[Nika]

52. I share this worry.

[HappyMe]

56. I think that the poor driver of the car

is probably in more trouble than the bike rider.

[tarheelsunc]

36. I agree.

If they want to claim bikes are vehicles with the same rights as cars, then they should have the same responsibilities while operating them.

[Nika]

43. Good post. I am a bicyclist that takes bicycling very seriously.

They are vehicles that are inherently unstable, and they go fast enough to kill or maim a pedestrian or other bicycle. They could also cause a car to serve and cause a motor vehicle accident.

Drunk driving kills and maims many people in this country, and bicycles are vehicles that should be ridden responsibly and with serious consideration for others as well as for consideration for oneself and what one is doing.

All drunk drivers deserve to be turned in.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. They do. My local cops ticket people

For blowing through reds, regularly. The frustration cops get is that cyclist throw the, but I don't need a license attitude, which they don't. But the laws apply as well

[Hoyt]

97. Heck, I got detained for over an hour in Macon, Ga by a policeman which said I was riding on wrong

side of road. The idiot expected me to ride 20-30 MPH AGAINST traffic. I told him he'd have to haul me off because I was going to ride with traffic. I sat beside his cruiser with flashing lights while we waited for his supervisor to arrive. The supervisor all but kicked the young policeman's rear when I had my chance to speak.

Truth is, folks in cars can be rude and deadly to bicyclists.

Are a few seconds really worth it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. On either side

I take it that young officer had a one way conversation with the sergeant who explained you were right?

The amazing thing is that riding against traffic was recommended until two generations ago.

[Hoyt]

108. Those big front wheeled bikes were slow : )

[snooper2]

139. only for like 500 feet LOL, it's in Canada by the way...

You live in the city or country by the way?

[Nika]

2. Us bicyclists do not block traffic, we are traffic.

The bike infrastructure and laws in Eugene, Oregon are excellent. And the police take harrassment of a bicyclist very seriously here.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

5. Very cool.

I think Sonoma is a pretty bike-friendly place, despite the negative comments in the local paper. It could be better, but I feel pretty fortunate to live where I do. That's great to hear about Eugene. I'd wager it's way up on this list of healthiest cities in its size class.

[Nika]

10. many bike shops here rent bicycles because people visiting here spend big $$$ to go out on our ...

excellent bike path and route system. We have the Willamette River running through the city, and paths on both banks a long way along it.

It is a bicycle paradise here compared to many places I've been. I've worked as a bicycle mechanic by the way, and raced when I was younger.

[JDPriestly]

44. Off the road bike paths are great.

[Nika]

46. My favorite one is the unimproved Leaf Erickson Drive in Forest park in Portland, Oregon.

It is eleven miles and extremely beautiful, I highly recommend it.

[Art_from_Ark]

144. The best one I have ever traveled was the Elroy-Sparta trail in Wisconsin

http://www.elroy-sparta-trail.com/

[cali]

4. It's pretty bicycle friendly here.

There's so little road traffic that that makes it easier to be tolerant. On the other hand, tourists on the many bike tours that travel through here from May through October, tend to get a little giddy about that and go whole hog frequently.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

28. Trying to recall....are you near Big Bear or maybe Mammoth Lakes?

I love the thought of being able to scream down the centerline of a nice road, but in practice, that almost never happens for me.

[cali]

53. neither. I live in the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont

he Kingdom encompasses 55 towns and gores, with a land area of 2,027 square miles (5,250 km2), about 21% of the state of Vermont.[3] The city of Newport is the single incorporated city in the tri-county area.

As of 1997, 80% of the Northeast Kingdom was covered by forest.[4] 59% was northern hardwood, 29% spruce or fir.

The Northeast Kingdom has been listed in the North American and international editions of "1,000 Places to See Before You Die", the New York Times best-selling book by Patricia Schultz. In 2006, the National Geographic Society named the Northeast Kingdom as the most desirable place to visit in the country and the ninth most desirable place to visit in the world.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Kingdom

Lots and lots of mountain biking here.

http://www.kingdomtrails.com/

And it's achingly beautiful:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=5&gs_ri=psy-ab&pq=persian+jewish+food+recipes&cp=9&gs_id=bf&xhr=t&q=kingdom+trails&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&biw=1238&bih=553&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=r0w-UcC0DobW0QH33YHYCQ#um=1&hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=northeast+kingdom&oq=Northeast+Kin&gs_l=img.1.0.0l3j0i24l7.23620.26273.0.29002.13.11.0.2.2.0.117.948.10j1.11.0...0.0...1c.1.5.img.w535fgegM44&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43287494,d.dmQ&fp=7c5221241286834c&biw=1238&bih=553

[DisgustipatedinCA]

58. I don't think I could've guessed any more incorrectly than I did

It looks, and sounds like a beautiful place.

[graham4anything]

6. It's extremely friendly to bikes in NYC, thanks to Mayor Bloomberg's initiatives toward wellness

walking and biking are two of the biggest successes.

Many new bike lanes, and a concrete oasis beach in the heart of the broadway district with zero cars allowed at any time.

[edhopper]

7. K&R

[DisgustipatedinCA]

13. Good to hear. I'd probably be too apprehensive to bike in NYC

...at least on the streets. But more power to those who do.

[quinnox]

9. very friendly to bicycles here

Portland has been called one of the Greenest cities in America. There are nice large bike lanes and trails all over the place. I ride my bike all the time.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

17. I looked at Google bike maps for Eugene and Portland

You guys seem to have all the bike infrastructure you can shake a stick at. And I can't imagine that this detracts from the quality of motorists' lives.

[Egalitarian Thug]

11. Riding a bicycle here in Sin City is tantamount to suicide. n/t

[DisgustipatedinCA]

26. I checked Google's bike map for Las Vegas

I wish I could post the map here, but it only shows a link when I try. Anyway, I see what you're talking about. Google shows dark green lines for dedicated bike trails. It looks like most of those in the area are offroad, maybe more suited to mountain biking (??).

[Egalitarian Thug]

93. And the aggressively stupid drivers out here use the bike lanes as unofficial passing

lanes (on the right, of course). Add regular traffic speed of 50+ mph and you've really got to be desperate or insane to ride on two wheels with anything less than 500cc underneath you.

[LuckyLib]

12. Sonoma County has beautiful scenery, and ideally someone 30 years ago

would have planned bike routes that would have added to the quality of life there by making it easy for folks to bike safely on designated paths. The area has many tight, two-lane roads that are difficult at times for autos, let alone a bevy of cyclists. Communities in California (e.g. Davis) that have planned the incorporation of bicycles for decades have developed of culture of co-existence with an eye on safety. Even then, it's still a challenge for both drivers and cyclists to see and be mindful of each other. It takes work.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

22. Would that they had done this 30 years back.

Still, there are some pretty good spots to road bike in Sonoma without encountering too much traffic. For what it's worth, there are lots of roads in Sonoma I'd no sooner ride than I would ride on 101, e.g., Calistoga road (the hilly part), Mark West Rd, 116 out of Petaluma, and lots more. I don't wish to force my way onto heavily-traveled and dangerous roads; I just want some I can share with cars and feel safe doing so.

[Webster Green]

138. Hwy. 116 between Forestville and Guerneville is extremely dangerous for biking.

Yet I see quite a few hard core bikers out there. Riding a bike on that stretch of road is like begging to be killed. There are many curves and hardly any shoulders on the road. There are very few places to pull over.

I fear for anyone I see riding on that stretch of road, and I drive it very carefully. It would be so easy to come around one of those blind curves and encounter a bike rider, and if the opposite lane had a vehicle in it.....man, there's just no where to go, for either the driver or the biker.

Overall, I think Sonoma County is very biker friendly. I worry for them in places like that though.

[slackmaster]

14. I'm fine with the concept, but a lot of cyclists act like total jerks who think they own the road.

They want to be given the same status as a car with respect to lane position, etc. but behave in unexpected (and illegal) ways such as blowing through stop signs. They ride at night with inadequate lighting, and often lack the minimum required safety gear (e.g. a helmet.) We have a bunch of people who ride fixed-gear track bikes on the street. That's illegal and dangerous, and results in them behaving in unpredictable and unsafe ways.

You can't have it both ways. Either you follow the SAME rules of the road as cars, or there is a different set of rules by which bicyclists must abide. If I am at a 4-way stop and got there first, I expect bicyclists traveling perpendicular to my path to consistently either obey the stop sign and respect my right of way, or consistently blow through stop signs so I know not to expect them to stop. I expect them to signal their intentions.

ETA many of our roads are NOT bicycle-friendly. I understand the difficulty cyclists face dealing with merging vehicle traffic, potholes, etc.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

19. I agree with most of what you say

As with motorists, there are good ones and bad ones. In my local paper, and elsewhere, there seems to be an attempt to equate all cyclists with those who are breaking the rules. I don't think that's what you're doing, but I have noticed it elsewhere. When I'm in traffic, I'll come to a full stop at all stop lights/signs. If I'm alone on the road, I'll slow down for a stop sign, check for traffic, then keep going. It's fudging, but only when no one is around. It's the same thing lots of people do with their cars.

[slackmaster]

20. I've ridden bicycles quite a bit, and understand the desire not to lose precious momentum.

Just don't violate the right-of-way of a vehicle that has more lug nuts than you do.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

25. I've taken just enough physics to understand that my mass & acceleration won't

...equalize me against a car or truck. And that's one of the reasons (not the only) that I want to be a considerate biker. Winning a court case isn't real helpful when you're dead.

[Hoyt]

24. Oh, a poor guy behind a 300 horse power auto might get delayed 5 seconds by a bicyclist. Jeebus.

Give me a break.

I don't ride anymore, but I sure had my run ins with folks in cars/trucks who couldn't stand someone bicycling on the very edge of the road so as not to impede traffic -- many were drunks, or just cranky folks (likely, right wingers) who never saw a guy in tight pants biking as fast as their car/pickup.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

29. In traffic, I try not to stay on the very edge of the road (in a situation w/no paved shoulder)

My thinking is that if I'm within an inch or two of the edge of the pavement, I might make a mistake that causes me to fall, possibly into traffic. So I try to give myself 10" or so of pavement on the right. If the situation feels dicey enough, I have no problem getting onto the soft shoulder and stopping until traffic has passed and I can go on my way.

[HappyMe]

48. Thank you for moving over.

I get tired of going 5mph in a 45mph zone. If there's enough room, and it's safe, I pass up the bikes.

[joeunderdog]

63. Poor guy in a 300 horse power auto

is probably scared shitless that there is no room for error when a cyclist is wandering into the flow of auto traffic, especially in a busy background. People behind the wheel have a hard time seeing cyclists in a congested downtown area even when they are being careful. When cyclists do not follow the rules of the road, it adds to unpredictability and danger and ultimately, stigma for other cyclists. Too many cyclists take chances that actually feel threatening to drivers. A 5 mph fender bender in cars could be a fatality for a cyclist.

Believe it or not, most car drivers don't want to hit the cyclists--their biggest worry is that they might. Drivers are horrified of the possibility of dealing with guilt, trauma and lawsuits if they hit a cyclist. I doubt that drivers' biggest worry is what cyclists are wearing or the fact that they like to pedal. They're mostly just worried about an accident.

[tarheelsunc]

41. Fully agree with everything you said. eom

[mike_c]

113. in most states they have exactly the same rights to the road as motorists...

...and the same responsibility to obey traffic laws. It's illegal to blow through stops and ride at night without lights, not to mention down right stupid. While I won't ride around the block without a helmet, state law in that regard varies. Most states do not mandate helmets. They should, IMO. I know former university students with permanent brain damage.

[slackmaster]

123. Helmets are required here in California, as are head and tail lights for night riding, however...

...the laws are not enforced consistently.

In my neighborhood there is a bike shop called Thomas Bike that has been in business since 1907. It's owned and operated by a couple. The husband, known as Don the Cop, is a sergeant in the San Diego Police Department, a traffic officer.

About once a month there is a Midnight Madness ride in which a mob of hundreds of bicyclists is given carte blanche to block motor vehicle traffic and do pretty much whatever they want. Helmet and equipment laws are hardly enforced at all in my neighborhood because of the influence of Don the Cop.

I like Don the Cop. He's a good guy, but I wish he wouldn't give so much slack to the outlaw fringe of the bike community.

[Broken_Hero]

15. I don't mind bicyclists or motor bikes

and our area is not bicyclist friendly in the least bit. NW Arkansas is a bit more accommodating though.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

18. I bike when the weather is better.

Living in the Pacific Northwest you have limited good days which to bike. Generally I've found most drivers to be considerate. Guess my biggest annoyance is drivers who aren't attentive to what's around them. I've had a couple of close calls with these.

[Phentex]

21. I wish it were more biker friendly but

I fear for their lives. My husband has taken his bike to work a few times on some back roads but he can't avoid some major roads close to the office. I wish there were dedicated bike lanes everywhere.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

33. I don't know Atlanta well, and sorry to hear it's not so bike-friendly, but....

...it looks like you have one heck of a bike trail running west from Atlanta to a place called Saks. (http://goo.gl/maps/42DXI). Have you or your husband had a chance to try that one out?

[Phentex]

40. That's the Silver Comet Trail...

been on parts of it, not the whole thing. It's nice for leisure. The parts we were on were pretty flat with lots of walkers and strollers.

[wilt the stilt]

62. I have biked in Atlanta since the eighties

and it is significantly better today. You were literally taking your life in your hands in the eighties. There is a nice ride out of Roswell park on Saturday morning and many rides in many other areas. Generally though Atlanta still stinks. Denver is the absolute best.

[Phentex]

65. I was thinking in terms of commuting to work or stores...

there are plenty of places for leisurely rides. Hell, I ride around my neighborhood without too many problems (metal plates, pot holes!). My husband's office is on Peachtree Street. I want him to wear swimmies, bright orange and a gas mask.

[KamaAina]

31. San Jose has over 50 miles of dedicated bike lanes.

That does not stop people -- adults, mind you -- from blowing past me on the sidewalk of a street that has them. And yes, those who do use the bike lane sometimes blow through lights.

Our VTA light rail cars have four bike racks each. However, some cyclists prefer to clog up the doorways with their bikes rather than maneuvering past another bike to get to an open rack.

I am definitely not a 'bagger in Fresno. I'm just a frustrated pedestrian who wishes these people would take advantage of the many bike-friendly amenities available to them.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

37. You are most assuredly NOT a bagger from Fresno

And I think that there are motorists who have valid concerns and complaints about some cyclists. After all, I call myself a cyclist, but I've spent a great many more hours behind the wheel (and walking, for that matter), than I have on a bike. I'm all about making it all work together--driving, walking, cycling. And FEMA reeducation camps for in-line skaters. (nothing personal, skaters, but someone needs to suffer)

[HappyMe]

32. Too many potholes, not enough bike lanes.

[tarheelsunc]

34. I understand the arguments for sharing the road, but I find it dangerous.

I believe we need more specialized bike lanes to protect bikers, drivers, and pedestrians. I've seen far to many cyclists on the road who are so inexperienced or unskilled that they can't keep the bike straight and it makes the driver worried to pass them. Speaking of which, passing can be very dangerous for everyone if around a blind corner. I have nothing against cyclists but I think having cars and bikes sharing the road is dangerous.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

39. Thanks for your reply. I hope that road-sharing will continue to become safer over time n/t

[JDPriestly]

47. Bike lanes on major streets create a real problem in LA.

When traffic is very light, there is no problem, but honestly when traffic gets heavier or at night, bikes are very dangerous. Often they cannot be seen. They are unpredictable. It's really a mess on the streets.

We have an aging population. That means cataracts -- not bad enough to operate but bad enough to impair night vision slightly.

Too many bike riders do not wear reflective clothing at night. Some dress in dark colors. They cannot be seen.

Also bike lanes compete with parking. You can have one or the other. The last thing we need is fewer lanes for cars on major streets.

And remember, many, many people cannot choose to ride a bicycle even if they want to. Their hips and legs are not strong enough. They are not young enough.

In my experience, bike riders are an arrogant bunch. Sorry, but that's my experience. Bikes should be granted good lanes on side streets and not compete with cars. They will lose every time.

I try to be very careful of bicycles and I think that may make more of a problem than those who are careless. Bikes are confusing to drivers.

[Nye Bevan]

35. No problem at all, if they follow the rules of the road,

which they mostly don't.

[Berlum]

54. + 1

I ride my bike most every day as a commuter, and I follow the rules of the road. But I see lots and lots of a-hole bike riders paying no attention whatsoever to the rules or to common sense. I have almost been hit several times by bike riders blasting through red lights as if they did not apply to them, or otherwise acting like speed jerks.

They give all bike riders a bad rep with their selfish and thoughtless riding habits.

[smirkymonkey]

128. As a pedestrian in a large city, I have a problem with bikers not obeying the same traffic rules

as motorists. When you get the light to go ahead and cross the street and all the cars are stopped, there are many cyclist who blow right through the light or stop sign and are a menace to pedestrians.

They need to stop just like the cars. Many pedestrians aren't looking out for cyclists who decide to just blow through the light and I have seen numerous horrible accidents between cyclists and pedestrians. I have almost been mowed down a few times myself by inconsiderate bikers who don't give a damn about people on foot who are just trying to cross the street.

I know all cyclists aren't assholes, but there are a number who are and they give cyclists a bad name.

[JDPriestly]

42. Traffic violations by bicyclists is a big problem in LA.

Ride a bike on city streets at your own peril.

Above all, do not run stop signs. You might meet up with a car that has the right-of-way.

Cars cannot stop as easily as bikes can. It's just a fact. So if you wander in front of a car, you cannot expect the driver to stop.

Learn your turn signals. In fact, use the cross-walk to turn or cross the street if you value your life. A driver cannot see you when you signal a left turn as you sidle up beside him in his blind spot.

It's best to ride on side streets and avoid the main ones. You have better visibility and so do the cars.

You are taking your life in your hands if you ride a bike on city streets. I loved to ride a bike when I was a child, and I try to be very careful, but bike riders are oblivious to the dangers they face. (I rode on side streets, not on the main streets.)

Traffic is too congested in a city like Los Angeles for bikes. It's a shame. Bikes are good for the environment. But for safety's sake, they should not share main thoroughfares.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

51. All good points

I think that in an ideal world, there would be main bicycle thoroughfares on less traveled streets parallel to main auto thoroughfares. I mentioned to someone else in this thread that there are local roads I'd never attempt, just because they're too dangerous. I just want a safe way to get from here to there, even if it adds some mileage.

[PasadenaTrudy]

118. I get fed up

with the Lance Armstrong wannabe wknd warriors in Lycra. The ride two or three abreast and are so arrogant

[olddots]

50. we have bicycle lanes in the San Stupido Valley

people think they're texting lanes.This is great bicycle country and you'd be lucky to see a bike a day then you'll see packs of 43 mid age desperados on the weekends in 4000$ riding regalia making believe they're on the Wide World of Sports. I really wanted a recumbent trike for my main transportation then realized I would be run over before I got 1/2 a mile.
L.A. will unfortunately be the last place in America to get bike friendly and for that reason I have wanted out for 35 years .

[DisgustipatedinCA]

57. That's too bad. You have perfect weather and scenery for cycling

People on their $4K bikes that I wished I owned...that's a different thread, but I love your description.

[madville]

55. They have bike lanes in my area

But nearly everyone rides bikes on the sidewalks. No way I'm getting out there in the road with all these drunk or texting/internet surfing idiots we have flying around here.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

59. You live in madville, after all. ;)

Thanks for your reply. I'll occasionally get on a sidewalk if my middle school daughter is riding with me and the situation warrants. But I mostly stick to the roads.

[Peter cotton]

60. It depends. If they can keep up with traffic, no problem.

If they can't then I do have a problem with them, just as I would with a car going 20 mph on a street whose limit is 40.

[bike man]

61. I ride on two lane roads in a rural area. I ride bicycles (I have two, but only

ride one at a time), and a motorcycle. I have not in the nearly 10 years I've been riding on these roads had a problem with automobiles or trucks - while on a bicycle. The same can not be said for riding a motorcycle. Sometimes I feel as though there is a target on the back of my Suzuki.

So, I do not mind sharing the road with bicyclists. Or motorcyclists.

[Melon_Lord]

66. The ones who stay out of my way... No problem...

The asshat riding in the middle of the lane uphill on twists and turns. He can go to hell...

Same goes for the guy who thinks he deserves all the rights of a car until there is a stop sign, then he's just a dude on the bike and it doesn't apply to him.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

73. There's staying out of your way, and there's sharing the road. These may be different things

I agree with you that if you see a cyclist going through a stop, that cyclist is in the wrong. If that cyclist is alone in that little part of the world at that moment, then maybe they don't need a full stop, depending on the situation. In this instance, you wouldn't see the cyclist since you're not around. But by all means, if there's a car nearby, the cyclist needs to come to a complete stop. I realize my opinion runs afoul of the law requiring a complete stop in all stop sign/light situations, but in the real world, I think it's ok to slow down for a stop sign without completely coming to a stop, so long as no one else is around.

Your statement about cyclists staying out of your way would seem to indicate that sharing the road isn't something you're very keen on-is that the case? Thanks.

[Melon_Lord]

106. 99.9% of the time I am going faster than a bike...

They need to ride the far edge or the dirt instead of forcing traffic to cross lanes illegally to go around them...

[Pab Sungenis]

67. I have no problem sharing the road with SAFE cyclists.

However, I can count on the fingers of one hand (hell, the fingers of one FINGER) how many safe cyclists I've seen in the past year.

For one thing, I hate idiots who ride against the flow of traffic. That is the stupidest thing that bike riders do. It's more important that the car see YOU and have time to react than YOU see the car. Riding against traffic cuts down on reaction time for both bike and car, not to mention making turning much more dangerous.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

75. Although I'll never be able to prove it, I would think and hope that the vast majority

of cyclists you've seen in the last year have been safe riders, so safe in fact, that you don't even notice them with your conscious mind. Is that a possibility?

[Pab Sungenis]

124. I hope so.

I think more people should ride bikes, but don't want more traffic hazards from people who don't know how to do it right.

[slackmaster]

127. I think most cyclists are safe, DiCA. They go about their business, ride defensively, and people...

...don't notice them.

We do notice people like the drunken, helmetless, shirtless nitwit cyclist who thought I had passed him too close and started pounding on the roof of my 4,800 pound SUV with his bare fist as we were traveling down 30th Street in San Diego. I know I gave him at least six feet, even though he and his buddy were riding side-by-side down the busy street rather than the legally required single file. I crossed over the center line to make sure he had plenty of room, but that wasn't good enough for him.

I felt sorry for the fool. What was he thinking? Did he expect me to stop my vehicle and engage him in fisticuffs in public? If I was a mean person I could have squashed him like a bug.

[TheMightyFavog]

88. THIS.

There are too many parents up here in rural Wisconsin who actually teach their kids to ride against traffic so they can see the cars coming. >.<

They make rear view mirrors for bikes. You can pick them p for les than a ten spot in most big box stores.

[NV Whino]

68. Well, we have bike lanes...

And we are supposedly biker friendly. But this is the Napa Valley with narrow roads and narrow to nonexistent bike lanes. Oh yeah, there's a white line on the right edge of the road, but in many, even most, cases it is dangerous to ride there.

My wish is that they take the old railroad right of way and turn it into a bike path the length of the valley. Probably not going to happen.

In the mean time, I really hate seeing cyclists on the roads. Most of them are amateurs without the knowledge to be safe in our frequently unsafe situations. And then there are all the cyclists (amateur and pros) who blow through stop signs, ride side by side, ride against traffic, and generally break the law. I wouldn't mind requiring a license for cyclists.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

78. Silverado Trail is really nice for riding

And if I'm not mistaken, there's a dedicated bike lane on both sides of the road from Napa to Calistoga. Sure, I have worried a little about tipsy tourists going from tasting to tasting, but the bike lane on Silverado is really nice. Compare it to Highway 12 through Sonoma Valley--you have to either take your life in your hands or take some back roads to get up and down 12.

[NV Whino]

84. There are some very narrow places on it

And where it's wide, cyclists tend to ride side by side. I just dread driving the trail (or 29) when I see cyclists ahead. It's really bad on my road up on the mountain. And of course, that's a road (challenge) few serious cyclist can pass up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. This is my chief beef with cyclists

Traffic laws apply to you too. We live on a road that crosses a well used bike lane. Traffic control is done with traffic lights. You have no idea how many of these bright ones run the red regularly.

It's bad enough that we have a major accident a month, as in fire truck, ambulance and trauma unit. I ride...I follow traffic laws. Nope, not because the apply to me (they do) but the law of raw tonnage.

Oh and it is inversely proportional as to how fancy the gear is I swear.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

91. You're almost right.

Riding skill is inversely proportional to the price paid for the bike, IF AND ONLY IF the bike is more expensive than mine.
If I ever luck into a $5,000 bike, I'll need an out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. I bought my usually 700 bike

For 400 at the end of the season.

[hack89]

71. Only a fool would ride a bike on our main roads

narrow, crowded, lots of pot holes.

Plenty of cyclists on the side roads and the bike path though.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

83. Most of the cyclists around here need to be institutionalized

There are three types:

1. Bike Couriers: Aggressive and Insane, hit cars, hit pedestrians. When they stop for a red light it is to piss on the street.
2. Dickheads: I am going to backup traffic for three miles by riding a 6mph on an arterial street. I have the right to do this.
3. Psychos: Wow, look at that nice pathway. Look at all those strollers and doggies. This seems like a good place to try going 30mph.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

85. These men are nihlists, Donny. There's nothing to be afraid of.

Again, I hope that you're only noticing the offenders; I hope that your conscious mind filters out most of the cyclists who want to obey the law and just have a nice ride.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

89. I think the non-offenders are riding on the mountain bike trails

the urban cyclists just seem reckless.

[loyalsister]

94. My city is very pedestrian and cyclist friendly

we have bicycle lanes. And the busses are equipped with racks for bikes. Our previous mayor rode his bike to work every day. He made it a priority to have a walkable, bikable, and wheelable city. He also worked to expand our bus system in and effort to reduce traffic. The process has slowed down a bit with a more chamber of commerce friendly mayor. But there are still advocacy groups that are pressuring the powers that be.

For a city of barely 100,000, I think we've done a very good job.

I think it's best for cyclists to have their own lanes as a matter of safety. The cyclists I have seen who have to get into the traffic with cars have been good about using hand signals, etc. I would love to see cycling expanding expecially for environmental reasons. But also because I have a bias against cars.

[Warpy]

95. I live near the university, so the area is very bike friendly

Busier streets have bike lanes and everybody seems to look out for cyclists. I never felt unsafe on a bike around here.

Other parts of the city were designed 100% for cars and it shows. I would not want to bike there.

[kestrel91316]

103. Drivers in my area are extremely unfriendly to bicyclists, and

local government can't be bothered with such trivialities as providing bike lanes so people can commute safely to work. They'd rather make bike paths that don't go anywhere near where anybody works.

Oh, and DU has its own very noisy and nasty, frothing-at-the-mouth bicycle-hating contingent.

[Bluenorthwest]

104. Very bike friendly here, we have about 10% bike commute rate

http://www.bicycling.com/ride-maps/featured-rides/9-eugene-or

[Texasgal]

105. No problems with cyclist

Austin is a big cycling city. I ride but only in my neighborhood and surrounding parks.

I think we should all share the roads. I think the main issue in my city is how much tax money goes toward cycling improvements when there is so many other things we need more desperately.

Anyway, I agree with safe cycling and sharing the roads!

[mike_c]

110. I was a long time bicycle commuter and recreational rider...

...although I'm currently not riding much due to the season and some other personal reasons. But I have little sympathy for motorists (I'm one of those, too) who want to exclude cyclists from public roads. In most states, cyclists have just as much right to the road as motorists, and motorists are REQUIRED to respect that access right.

That said, in those same states cyclists are generally required to obey all the same traffic laws as motorists where applicable, and often are sort of required to stay to the right so as not to impede motorized traffic (I say "sort of" because those regs usually include some disclaimer to the effect of "if it's safe to do so," which is a judgement call cyclists need to make and motorists (and cops) don't always agree. For me, it's only safe to stay to the right of traffic if that does not make me a second class citizen on the road, e.g. at stop signs, stop lights, in traffic circles, when making left turns, etc. In those situations it is generally safer to command the appropriate lane for travel, i.e. to ride right down the middle of it and force motorists to yield the right of way safely rather than to pass unsafely.

I get really irked when cyclists ignore traffic laws, blow through stops, turn without signalling, from the wrong lane, and so on. We have a right to the road. It comes with responsibilities.

[Drunken Irishman]

111. We have a great deal of bike lanes in my city...

But most still aren't and it's tough sometimes, especially on roads with only two-lanes.

Here's a map of the city's bike lanes:

http://www.bikeslc.com/WheretoRide/PDF/SLC2011BikeMapWebsite.pdf

[DisgustipatedinCA]

116. It does look like you could get pretty much anywhere you need to go in a dedicated bike lane

I know a map doesn't always tell the whole story, but it looks like you have better biking infrastructure than many other cities do.

[Drunken Irishman]

121. It helps we have a grid system and wide streets.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

112. Thanks for all of the responses. I think this has been a useful discussion

As a motorist, and cyclist, and pedestrian, I really do understand when people need to get somewhere, and I understand that it's not much appreciated with cyclists riding abreast or engaging in other activity that makes it harder for drivers. I think and hope that I'm a considerate bicyclist. I'm always mindful that I could be dead in less than 2 seconds if something goes wrong. I hope that I'm a polite cyclist mostly because I'm a nice guy, but even if I'm not, the dead-in-2-seconds thing gives me extra reason to be polite, respectful of road laws, and always keeping up with situational awareness. I don't want to anger drivers. I don't want to endanger pedestrians. I don't want to be perceived as a menace on the road. I just want the freedom I feel when I'm riding. That's what it's all about to me. Thank you.

[ebbie15644]

114. I live in Pittsburgh, PA

and I don't mind the cyclist but it seems in the city they take many chances weaving in and out between cars. My dad almost hit one and it would not have been his fault, they bike just darted out from between 2 cars. They need to be careful too.

[Charlotte Little]

115. So tired of hearing...

...about the cyclists who break laws and are annoyances.

I'm a cyclist, I know tons of cyclists and I ride all the time. We don't blow through stop signs or red lights. We mostly ride single file except on roads with two to three lanes (plenty of room for motorists to get around us with ease). We do take up lanes, but only when we have to due to road conditions, car doors or other obstructions. We give hand signals to indicate what we're doing. We move over to the left at stoplights so that cars wanting to turn right can do so. We're considerate and follow the same traffic laws as the motorists do.

We also cause less wear and tear on the roads than cars. We don't emit fumes (well, okay, sometimes...), and we don't take up parking spaces. And some of us (I'm not including myself in the "us" here) look amazing in spandex (eye candy!)

But regardless of the above, we have as much of a right to the roads as motorists do. And where I live, the law agrees with us and is (usually) on our side.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

117. I think people notice the outliers more, just because they're outliers

People remember the jerk who cut them off in traffic, or weaved in and out of cars. But they don't remember the cyclist who came to a stop, waited his or her turn, rode single-file with friends, and so on. By the same token, when I'm driving, I don't so much notice the cars that are just going on their way, but I'll remember the so-and-so who was driving like a maniac. That said, there are some people who appear to hate bicyclists beyond all reason, and sometimes, cyclists get killed by these hotheads. Thanks for your post.

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. I should invite you to spend a couple days on my corner

[Zoeisright]

136. Just because you follow the rules doesn't mean all do.

From what I've seen, you're in the minority.

[Fumesucker]

143. Few car drivers also obey *all* rules of the road

Go drive the speed limit practically anywhere and see how long it takes to have someone impatiently tailgating you. Yes, the speed limit is one of those "rules of the road".

Changing lanes within fifty feet of an intersection is forbidden in my state, I doubt more than one in ten drivers here is aware of that fact.

[former9thward]

119. Cyclists may pay taxes but they don't pay gas taxes.

That is where road construction funds come from. That said cars and bikes don't mix. And cars win everytime there is an interaction between the two. When I ride my bike I always use the sidewalks instead of the bike path. I won't trust my health and life in the hopes someone will operate their car properly. The way some cyclists ride in traffic they think the nerd helmets they wear will protect them in a collision with a car. It won't.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

122. a couple of points

Most adult riders are also drivers of motorized vehicles, and as such, they pay gasoline taxes.
Also, in many states and localities, riding on the sidewalk is prohibited by law.
I completely understand what you mean when you say that a car will always win the showdown between bike and car. That's a risk I have opted to take, with as much risk reduction as possible. There's still a risk, of course, but for myself, I've decided the risk is worth it, because the payoff is so nice.

Thanks.

[former9thward]

125. The point is that cars pay the road taxes not bikes.

Riding on the sidewalk is illegal in my city also. But it is one of those offenses that police rarely enforce (it is an offense which the police will use only if they suspect you of something else like drugs or something.)

[Auntie Bush]

120. Very bike friendly in my area. Whole families come to the area just to bike and site-see.

[cliffordu]

126. I live in Oregon....

We have GREAT bicycle infrastructure (except in fucking Salem, where I am currently ensconced)

Harassing bicyclists here can get you beaten.

Or arrested.

Riding while drunk will get you a DUI just like a caraholic.

[Butterbean]

129. My community is very cyclist friendly.

On warm and sunny days, I know to expect virtual herds (that's what I call them, jokingly) of cyclists in groups of 20 or 30 riding on the roads. We have cycling clubs here that are pretty active, and back roads here that are very pretty, so it's no surprise to see them out on beautiful days in such large numbers. Even on the crappiest days in the crappiest weather, we still have tons of cyclists out.

I rarely see cyclists violating the laws, so rarely that yesterday when a young woman on a bike ran a red light (she was dressed in full gear, so she was not a "casual" rider), I was pretty shocked. The cyclists around here follow the rules and are generally considerate, and I don't mind their presence at all.

[Fumesucker]

130. After reading this thread it's clear to me that all car drivers always obey all rules of the road

Car drivers never refrain from coming to a complete stop at all stop signs and red lights, they never speed, they never change lanes without signaling.

Evidently most of the posters on this thread live in Lake Wobegon, where not only all the children but all the car drivers are also above average.

[applegrove]

131. When I used to drive I hated sharing the road with bicyclists. Thankfully, I don't drive a car or a

bike anymore.

[LeftInTX]

132. Bikes on the road? I've never seen that in San Antonio

Just joking!

We've got bike lanes, but not many people ride bikes around here. The bike lanes are small and are often an after-thought. My sons and husband ride through trails in the greenbelts. The greenbelts are actually quicker and safer to get from out lying areas to the inner city.

I'm so proud of our greenbelts!

[whistler162]

133. As long as they stay off their cell phones....

and yes I have seeb one bicycle rider on their cell phone on a main street.

[Nika]

142. I agree, a bicyclist like a motorist should shut up and ride.

Bicycles are inherently unstable machines and you need both hands to steer and brake properly.

You have a good point.

[Zoeisright]

134. I don't mind IF

they follow road rules. Unfortunately, there are tons of bikers and joggers in my area who cross the street wrong, don't obey stop signs, cut corners in intersections, walk (or pedal) on the wrong side of the road, and generally are nuisances. Obey the fricking rules of the road and we'll be cool.

[Nika]

141. While some rule breaking makes sense because bicycles are a different sort of vehicle where ...

... the riders have a better sight and hearing envelope, you have a point that bicyclists still have an obligation to be considerate to others.

I don't like going against the traffic, not giving passing warnings and cutting corners in an unrealistic fashion.

To get respect and leeway where it makes sense to give it to bicyclists, bicyclists do need to show it.

[DollarBillHines]

137. I live in your county, as well. I have one gripe regarding bicyclists.

Fucking stop signs. I believe the city of Sonoma could balance the budget by ticketing cyclists who run stop signs. I live four blocks east of the Plaza and - every day - see multiple violations. What I find interesting is that the tourists on rental bikes seem to stop at the signs but the Spandexers never stop.

And they talk really loudly when they ride down my street. I can hear them while in my office, windows closed.

Also, I never see them spending money in our town - just riding through.

OK, I suppose that I really have three gripes.

[Nika]

140. I look, listen, but never stop at stop signs.

My field of vision and hearing range on a bike is far superior to a human in a tin box with a motor running. This is largely why you see this happening usually when you see bicyclists doing a California stop at a sign.

You lack empathy and expect a person on a superior vehicle to act the same as someone trapped inside an inferior one.

(Just imitating your somewhat arrogant attitude that completely lacks any sense of realistic empathy.)



You will get bicyclists to Uncle Tom to cars at a stop sign when pigs fly. You should relax and let go of your unrealistic expectations. You will be happier.

[donheld]

145. I live on Denver's Capitol Hill.

It's very bike friendly. We even have the city run bike rentals. Other parts of the metro area area mixed bag of bike friendly areas.