General Electric Avoids Taxes By Keeping $108 Billion Overseas

[monmouth3]

The company with the most profits parked overseas is General Electric, according to a new Bloomberg analysis of 83 corporations.

GE said in a Feb. 26 regulatory filing that it was holding $108 billion in profits overseas as of the end of last year. That is up from $102 billion a year before. GE said in the filing that it reinvested most of these profits in foreign business operations and does not intend to bring those profits back to the U.S.

The practice of holding profits overseas has been highlighted as a strategy to avoid paying taxes. GE paid no U.S. taxes at all in 2010, according to The New York Times -- an allegation GE spokesman Seth Martin called "untrue" in an email to The Huffington Post Monday.

GE did not comment on the $108 billion in profits overseas.

Entire article at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/11/general-electric-taxes_n_2852094.html

[Fat Bastard]

1. Then GE should not be doing business in the United States.

Throw GE out, persona non grata.

108 billion dollars. Pay up, fuckers.

[monmouth3]

2. Disgusting, isn't it?..n/t

[Lurker Deluxe]

6. Throw them out?

And the jobs they provide here in the States? Throw them out too? Just the payroll match in taxes they pay is huge, they may need to pay more in income taxes on the income made here in the States, but I would not even think of "throwing" them out.

If they made the money outside of the US, why would they pay US taxes on that money?

GE is a monster, better it be our monster than Dubai's.

-I hold GE stock-

[99Forever]

9. Nice 1%er talking point you have there.

We see you.

[Lurker Deluxe]

12. Heh

I saw that response coming as I typed this.

So, what is the correct position? Throw out every multinational corporation in the US?

Exxon/Mobil - Gone.
GE - Gone
Halliburton - wait ... already gone.
3M - Gone.
Berkshire Hathaway? We like the .... nah, Gone!!
Cargil, AT&T, IBM, Siemens, Apple, Intel, Chevron - ALL GONE!!!

Then we watch as the rest of the world blows past us in every aspect of anything that remotely resembles technological progress. But hey, we showed them!!

Look, I am all for fair taxation. If a company pays no taxes, reform the damn tax code. I do not blame anyone for doing what ever is legal to avoid paying taxes. I take my homestead exemption, when I had a mortgage I deducted the interest, when I dropped cash and upgraded my AC/Heat I will take the tax deduction for the energy credit, I take full advantage of every tax break available to me, just like anyone would.

GE produces lots, as in billions, of product here in the US. The statement to run them out of the US is absurd.

Absurdly absurd.

[99Forever]

22. Well there ya go.

Guess we should just bend over and spread 'em, right?

Nothing can be done or they'll take their ball and go home.


I just loves me some Surrender Monkey.

[Lurker Deluxe]

24. Did you read my post at all??

What part of "reform the damn tax code" did you skip over?

GE, and any other company, should pay taxes on money they make in the US. Period. Fuck foreign tax credits, and credits for taxes paid in other countries, but the tax code is what allows this BS.

However, if GE makes a product in China, and sells it in China, to a guy in China, and makes two f'n dollars or two million dollars on that transaction why should they pay US taxes on it? The money will stay in China because to bring that money back to the US they would have to pay taxes on it ... so, they will invest it in China to build more infrastructure and make more product to sell to THE LARGEST MARKET on the planet.

Your solution to this happening is ... fuck em, take the rest of those jobs to China too.

Great. Damn good thing I am old enough that I do not have to worry about the sad place this will be in forty years when the highest paying job is at Taco Bell and thousands of people fight over that job.

[99Forever]

25. I know Corporate Propaganda when I read it...

...and you dispense it like a pro.

[Lurker Deluxe]

26. right ...

And your solution, opinion, or general idea about anything is what?

"Nice 1%er talking point you have there"

"Nothing can be done or they'll take their ball and go home"

"I just loves me some Surrender Monkey"

"I know Corporate Propaganda when I read it..."

So, do you actually have an opinion on the solution to this problem, an opinion on what the US should do to retain jobs and collect taxes ... or just an opinion on anything??

Or is your entire debate, nut uhh ... your a corporate shill.

[99Forever]

27. Solution?

Yeah. The greedy bastards can pay their fair share, or get the fuck out and their assets nationalized.

Problem solved. Next.

[Lurker Deluxe]

30. How much?

How much is their fair share of money that is generated overseas?

Let's look at it this way.

GE makes a washing machine in China. Some guy who works in China buys this washing machine with money he made working in China. GE makes $25 on that washing machine. GE reproduces that transaction a million times, generating 25 million in profit.

How much should they pay in taxes to reincorporate that money into the US?

My opinion is 0. That's right ... 0.

In my thought that takes 25 million out of the Chinese GDP and puts it into the US GDP. It was never our money, and if you attempt to tax it at 35% you will get exactly none of it. So, tell me what you think the % of that profit you think that they should pay. This is about money that GE holds out of the US and will not reincorporate because of taxes.

You go right ahead and start "nationalizing" and see what that gets you ... except buying everything from somewhere other than here. I work for a multinational and if I was offered to move to Europe because they were closing US operation I would be gone three days ago. And I am sure you can keep the building and machines we would leave behind, minus any tooling, blueprints, and experience. We would be up and running in another country in the time it would take us to fly over there, rent a building, and buy machinery ... while the building in the US crumbles into yet another vacant factory that the government will have to bulldoze in a decade because it is falling down.

When you are ready to have a conversation that doesn't include something that can never happen, has never happened, and will never happen feel free to come up with a solution.

Next.

[Katashi_itto]

35. Or simply raise Tarriffs, and make in nonprofitable to make the washing machine overseas.

[Lurker Deluxe]

40. Huh?

They are making the washing machine in China, and selling it in China.

What do tarriffs have to do with anything. There is no product moving from country to country.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

71. You are missing a huge part of the picture.

You are acting as though GE-China only sells to the Chinese.

GE-China makes the machine in China and sells it to GE-US marked up enough so GE-US shows little to no profit when they sell in the US. GE-China books all the profit.

THAT is all done because the tariff laws are a joke.

Let GE-China (or GE-wherever) make and sell their products till their hearts content. But cut them off from our markets.

And cut them off from defense contracts if they still don't want to pay taxes.

[Lurker Deluxe]

75. They still have a US based

Production.

They are not making everything in China, they still build things here in the US. One of the few companies that does. Washing machines are bulky, they may make parts of them in China but the majority of that work is done here in the US.

I agree that the tariff laws are an issue. And they need to be changed to reflect the lack of environmental controls and lack of labor standards in "low cost countries".

Who, exactly, do you think is going to step and build the things GE builds for the defense department? Do you not think that if you decided to not allow GE to build those things for the US they would instead build them for the Chinese? You do understand that if you order a GE turbine you are talking about a delivery of 6 years, just like the monster I work for our sales book is locked up for 5 years and if you were to place an order your delivery would be 2018.

Not sure where all of you live that think this is such a simple issue as "cut them off from the US market", they do still employ over 100,000 people in the US, and through sub markets account for about a half a million jobs. Things must be great where you are to want to lose that much work.

The corporate tax issue is a complicated mess when it comes to these huge multi-national corporations. Their outstanding stock accounts for some 20B US, that is in everyone pensions and 401Ks, along with private holdings. They have an approximate value of half a trillion, and some 400B in debt outstanding, add the well over 100K direct jobs and 500K indirect and you want to just "cut them off".

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=GE

[99Forever]

36. One final question.

Why are you here on the Democratic Underground, peddling Republican talking points?

[Lurker Deluxe]

41. One final response

Why can you not have a conversation about an issue and stay on topic.

[99Forever]

47. Your non-answer..

.. tells the entire story.


We see you.

[Lurker Deluxe]

49. No.

Well I grew up quick and I felt the kick
Of life upon a stage
So I bought the book and then I took a fast look
At just the very last page
It was a single word that I'd just heard
From the two that came before
The only way to really stay
Is to walk right out the door

So I go away
I'm going to leave here
I can be invisible

I will not attempt to speak for anyone else. Your non-answer tells the entire story.

I see you.

[99Forever]

50. Sidestep and dance all you please.

Your words out you.


We see you.

[Lurker Deluxe]

51. Jingle jingle

I can do this all day. Go back and forth with some loner and the mouse in his pocket repeating the same thing every 5 minutes.

For right now there is a hold up on the floor regarding a missed dimension on a print and tech is on it. So I am sitting here f'n off on the PC.

So ...

nany nany boo boo

I see you.

[Nye Bevan]

39. They are not breaking any laws.

Do you voluntarily pay more taxes than you owe?

[HiPointDem]

42. Must be nice to have legislators making laws just for you. If they made some for me (some I

wrote myself, even), I wouldn't be breaking any laws either.

[99Forever]

48. Isn't that lovely?

Buy some judges that let you buy the lawmakers, that write laws that make sure you never have to contribute back to the very society upon which you got your vast wealth from, so you can then claim "but we didn't break any laws," which then makes you even wealthier, so you can buy even more judges and lawmakers to write even more laws protecting you and yours... rinse and repeat.

Ain't America great? Capitalism at it's finest.

[Nye Bevan]

52. The best thing would be to abolish the corporate tax,

and make up the revenue by raising the top rate of income tax and the capital gains and dividend tax rates. Also, eliminate loopholes like "carried interest".

Corporate tax is too easy to evade in a world of multinational companies and clever lawyers and accountants. And when it is not evaded it is passed on to the customers in higher prices. Much easier to raise that money by increasing the tax on the salaries of the highly paid executives.

Another benefit would be that all those billions overseas could then be brought home.

[Lurker Deluxe]

54. Dividends

I would like to see dividends taxed the same way as income. If someone bought some nice dividend paying stock to have a couple extra bucks every month when they retire why tax it extravagantly.

Put it in with regular income, taxed at the same progressive rate.

And raise that top rate. Cap gains tossed in there as well, same as any other income.

[Nye Bevan]

55. Absolutely. The justification for a lower tax on dividends

has been that the money has already been taxed at the corporate level. Without a corporate tax this would no longer apply and dividends should be taxed the same as any other income.

[KamaAina]

64. Do you have a bank account in the Cayman Islands where you can stash your cash?

Mittwit does.

[magellan]

29. If I make a product in China, and sell it in China, to a guy in China

...and my earnings go over the US foreign earned income exclusion amount, I pay US taxes. Can you explain why GE shouldn't?

[Lurker Deluxe]

31. you shouldn't either

To tax money made in another country is crazy.

The only reason you would pay taxes on that money is if you attempt to reincorporate it. If you leave that money in China you would not pay taxes on it. That is why it is still in China.

And if you attempt to get that money, GE will leave the US. They now have more jobs not in the US than in the US. They make more money outside of here than here.

I don't understand this reasoning at all. It's simple to me. If GE keeps that money in China, they will spend it in China, increasing China's GDP. Rinse, repeat. Why not let them make products in China and sell them to Chinese and then bring that money (Chinese money) back here?

The amount of capital leaving the US is increasing every single year because other countries doesn't tax money coming into their country. You think that a foreign firm, take Toyota, who opens a factory here in the US and builds and sells cars here pays taxes on that money going back to Japan? Hell no, the Japanese want all of the money that they can suck out of the US. Make money off the Americans and you are free to take it anywhere in the world ... they welcome it.

Maybe that makes me a "righty" or whatever. Or maybe I am naive as some like to say. All I know is at the rate that capital is leaving the US there won't be much to argue over in another 40 years or so ... except where all that money went, cause it damn sure won't be here.

[magellan]

38. Well, I haven't said whether I feel it's right or wrong

Frankly I agree with you: money earned overseas by an American who's living there and only engaging in commerce there shouldn't be taxed by the US. The IRS feels differently about it, however. (Or more precisely, the US government does.) And iirc, the US is one of only a few countries that does this - reaches out to its citizens abroad and demands its "cut". Of course you have to earn a lot, relatively speaking, before you owe anything. But still.

If, otoh, the American is domiciled in the US but making money overseas, I see no problem with taxing them. They're enjoying the fruits of this country - its infrastructure, etc - so yeah, they should be contributing to it regardless of where they make their money.

GE is an American multinational company, headquartered in CT. To my mind, there's no good reason why their profits should be treated differently to any American whose income is at least partly derived from overseas commerce. Particularly since the SCOTUS has ruled that corporations are people. But what GE owing nothing in taxes - in fact receiving a refund - tells me is they aren't treated the same. And that chaps my ass.

And yes, capital flight is a problem, one that nearly 12 years of the lowest effective corporate and dividend/capital gains tax rates since the late 1980s hasn't solved. It's time we stopped believing that "high taxes" are the problem and look at the reality: what's really leaving are jobs, and it's because the government with it's supply side, free market, anti-union credo has let them go, allowing big business to rack up huge profits and avoid taxes at the expense of the middle class. And until that problem is corrected, and the middle class is resurrected, our decimated economy will continue to skid along the bottom...no matter what the damn corporate tax rate is.

[Lurker Deluxe]

45. We agree to an extent

The real issue is the fact that jobs are leaving this country at an alarming rate, that is a completely different topic though.

I would disagree with the corporation that builds a factory in China to supply products to China using Chinese labor and resources being taxed by the US Gov. To me that just makes no sense and being that the world is very large place and the purchasing power of the US consumer is dropping what would make a company stay in the US if they begin to make more money out of the US than in the US?

It is a tough issue to deal with and the fact that US corporations have hundreds of billions in profits kept in other countries to avoid the taxation shows that. Attempting to confiscate that money will simply force the company to leave the US. Then, just like any foreign based company they can do business in the US and only pay taxes on the revenue that is created in the US.

Like Toyota, they have production facilities here in the US and pay taxes on the revenue created here while allowing their facilities in other countries to pay the local tax rates, allowing all the profits to flow back into Japan. The US attempting to go after Toyota's revenue stream in Japan would be absurd.

The issue of foreign tax credits is what makes this such a mess and allows companies like GE to pay no taxes. They can claim losses in other countries and write those losses off of their US income taxes. I would differentiate that and say that if you made a profit in another country you can repatriate that money free from US taxes, however if you had a loss in a foreign country you may not write that down on your taxes. If you choose to keep the profits you made overseas in the country where it was made then you must pay US income taxes on that money. All business in the US is a separate tax issue and taxes will be paid on a straight profit/loss.

The main objective is to get that money back into the US so it can be spent here, when it is spent is will go into the economy and taxes will be derived from those activities.

[magellan]

63. Actually the real issue is that business is about profit, full stop

The tax rate isn't the core of the problem. GE paid no taxes and they're still one of the companies complaining about "high US tax rates", angling for taxes to be reduced further and for leaving the loopholes they enjoy - at our expense - in place. And despite paying zero US taxes, they're still cutting American jobs.

If it isn't clear yet that the tax rate will never be low enough for them and they'll keep sloughing off American jobs in search of ever more profit, it should be. Employees are simply another expense to minimize any way possible, in their view. And they will continue to do that if nothing is done to stop them. We can do away completely with corporate taxes and eventually the extra slack will be taken up and jobs will begin to leave again. What's the point in paying corporations to stay here if they don't provide adequate jobs?

This rapacious hunt for ever more profit has gone on so long with the government's blessings that it's completely undermined the true engine of our economy: the formerly huge middle class. It's a supply side fail. Henry Ford understood the equation. So do some contemporary businesses like Costco, which recently raised its minimum wage in ALL states to $11.50/hour and supports raising the minimum wage across the board at the federal level.

Increasing the number of jobs that pay a living wage is the only way to get money back into our economy in a sustainable way. That's why I support closing corporate loopholes, increasing taxes, and offering corporations incentives to offset those measures if they keep decent paying jobs here. If they don't have a social conscience, one can be forced on them. If they don't like it, well, they're going to abandon the US anyway, one way or another.

[Lurker Deluxe]

65. OK

Just like a righty that just attempts to counter any discussion with, "47% of people pay no taxes". The facts lay somewhere in the middle. GE pays taxes. How much they pay is impossible to tell.

http://factcheck.org/2012/04/warren-ge-pays-no-taxes/

http://www.propublica.org/article/setting-the-record-straight-on-ges-taxes

GE's company match on SS taxes alone I am sure is in the millions. Add in property taxes and other taxes and GE pays. Should they pay more? I don't know what they pay so I have no idea if they should. According to the "internets" the facts are unknown, but it would appear that in 2010 GE did not pay much in taxes but in 2011 numbers could be as high as 29%.

Who knows. The complication of the tax code is what drives this mess. And GE certainly has their hand in making it that way, so do the people we elect. Simplification of tax code has been an issue for decades now. Corporate rates and rules need severe reform.

Of coarse companies are in business to make money. I go to work to make money, as I am sure that you do. GE is in business to make money, so is the company I work for. It is hammered, my reviews and development discussion are about making money, period. Well, we had two major accidents last year so safety is being hammered right now but it is because insurance rates went up ... so that is about money too. We strive to make money, I make them more and they pay me more. Each year we set goals that are unreachable and then we strive to achieve them, getting better and faster at doing what we do.

Like GE, the company I work for does not pay minimum wage. Our receptionist makes 40K, with at least 2 weeks paid vacation, a 7% 401K match fully vested after 90 days, and 11 paid holidays. A minimum 3% cost of living raise has come through almost every year with the 2008/9 crash being the only wage freeze, and they are attempting to push through a couple 4%'s to make up for it. It's a damn good job, right around the corner is a GE turbine shop and my resume has been submitted every year there for fifteen years ... cause that is a better job than the one I have.

I understand that alot of people like to hate on the big boys, and I was there in '94 when NAFTA was pushed through and people were telling me that the world was changing and it was time to get out of manufacturing as we were becoming a "service economy". I paid some attention and got into service, service of the ships that move all this crap around the world, service of the engines/turbines that create the power that we use every day. You want to run down companies like GE, they are the only ones left that if you can get your foot in the door you stand a chance of having a good job with good benefits and a real chance at retiring.

Bah ... rambling. I need to get back to work. Gotta go make some money.

[magellan]

66. Unless I'm mistaken

...the topic of discussion here is federal taxes. GE won't say how much they paid. Odd, because they could shut their detractors down in a heartbeat by revealing the figure if they so choose. That they won't suggests it's an amount unlikely to make their case and stifle fury.

No doubt there are good jobs left here, and I'm glad to know you're in one of them. But that isn't as common as it once was. As you write: "Companies like GE...are the only ones left that if you can get your foot in the door you stand a chance of having a good job with good benefits and a real chance at retiring."

It's great that you "paid some attention" and had the skills and education to score a good job with some longevity to it. However, and I apologize if I'm reading you wrong, but that implies you think anyone who's struggling now didn't have your foresight or work ethic. The fact of the matter is there aren't enough GEs to keep Americans in decent paying jobs with good benefits anymore. Consider yourself fortunate.

But in the end this discussion is moot in my view, as it appears all but certain to me that this country will continue on its current course and hit rock bottom before enough people wake up to the cold, hard reality of what supply side economics has wrought. And at 50, I expect that catastrophe to happen within my lifetime.

I wish you well.

[Lurker Deluxe]

67. same same

No, there is absolutely no doubt that I was lucky as hell to land this job. It was being at the right place at the right time, both myself and the company.

I had just left a small local manufacturing company, where I was production supervisor. I had been there about two years and was steadily looking for something other than making parts using "labor" that was getting paid between 14-16/hr and we worked them like dogs, and treated them worse. I was having a tough time finding anything, because of the management position (which I hated) most people thought I was just looking for a temporary thing and would bolt when something better came along. Long story short I ended up self employed, putting a welding rig on the back of my truck and going out hustling whatever I could find. A friend of mine, a drywall contractor, called me up to come talk to this company who needed a couple of tanks built. I came over to this facility when there were about 6 people here and they were just in the process of opening up the Houston shop. I met some of the higher ups who were acquiring equipment and putting in power, knowing the local vendors well I was helping them get set up. A turbo charger came in ... not like you would think this thing was like three feet in diameter, and the shaft had galled a thread and needed to be disassembled. They flew in some people from Florida to work on it, as they had not hired any local people yet, they fought this thing for a day or so and then one of the suits asked my opinion. He explained to me what had to be done, and basically it needed to be "broken", which I replied, "I can break anything". I proceeded to get out a hammer drill and bolt this thing to the middle of the floor, cut a wrench out of piece of plate that was in the back of my truck and spot welded the "wrench" to the fixture that was bolted to the floor. Then I took a 10 pound sledge and started beating the hell out of it as the crowd grew to where everyone is this big ass building was watching and commenting, "that won't work" etc. After about 15 minutes of straight beating, with me in a full sweat, the damn thing broke apart. As the crowd walked off I heard one of the suits say, "you need to hire that man". They made me an offer, here I am over a decade later.

Today they would not hire me as I do not have a college degree and that is a requirement for even the entry level mechanic job. Not only was I lucky to get this job I understand what I have and do everything I can to keep this job.

You are right, there are not enough of these jobs around to keep Americans in the upper middle class where I would consider myself. Amazingly enough, we have a hard time hiring people for entry level jobs that start at 38K with great benefits.

I agree with you that the country is spiraling down a very dangerous path and I believe I will see that catastrophe happen as well, although I will most likely be retired by then ... I am pushing 50 myself. The debt that young people are coming out of school with will bury them for decades and the cost of everything continues to explode, more and more jobs continue to flee and the wealth that is left is in the hands of the super rich and a few lucky working stiffs like me.

I hope you have a good day, mine is over ... I got here some 14 hours ago and it's time for me to go get a cold beer, get my ass to the house and take a shower.

[magellan]

68. Smiling

"I can break anything" - lol! That's an amazing story and I enjoyed reading it, thank you.

I'm glad I misread you. You certainly were in the right place at the right time - a lucky "break" in more ways than one. That's not to dismiss all you've done to hang onto your job. I know it's tough. Although I'm self-employed, which, as you know, is a rat race all its own, I worked in the white collar world long enough to see that generally it's the managerial types who get to kick back, screw up and still keep their jobs. Everyone else has to fight tooth and nail to stay relevant.

Why do you have a hard time hiring people for entry level jobs? Aren't there enough prospective employees with the right degree or what? $38K isn't bad considering the median wage for a worker these days is $25K, iirc. Of course if they'd be taking a wage cut they couldn't afford due to debt, that could explain it. Lots of Americans in that situation. And many others stuck in homes they can't sell for what they owe on them, so moving to a new area to chase a job prospect is pretty much out of the question.

The decline we've seen in our lifetimes is so disheartening. Especially over the last 13 years or so. It seems every time we turn around more is being done to unravel everything and leave people hurting. I truly shudder to think what would happen if something like Ryan's budget plan ever passed...but at the same time I see us heading in that direction anyway, so maybe getting it over with and hitting the brick wall that would follow would get us back on the right course again faster. smh It's not looking good either way.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy your cold beer and shower. You earned them!

[Lurker Deluxe]

72. That beer was delicious

They usually are though.

I think the reason we have a hard time retaining help is that this is a hard ass job, really hard in the early years before the "rank has it's privilege" kicks in. I can remember the second year I was here going through the incredible thoughts of "fuck this" and dragging up. The offshore world is tough, not just anybody can wander out there and survive, it takes a certain kind of person. An introvert stands barely a chance, and someone who is either physically weak, has a weak intestinal tract, or just can't handle basic conflict will not make it very long. We work, we work hard, and we get paid ... well.

Amazingly enough I have seen people just freeze up and not be able to handle the pressure. We call them "myotonic mechanics". Things get tense and it's loud, really really loud, so everyone is always yelling and when things start to go wrong ... well, sailors ain't got shit on roughnecks.

The fact that the company will not hire anyone unless they have a degree limits those who apply, and younger people with degree do not think that physical dirty work is something they should be doing. If you can make it past those first few years though the pay balloons up real quick getting your base to $60-80K, throw 6-800 hours OT on that and you are pulling 100K pretty easy. The benefits explode as well, I currently have almost 6 weeks paid time off including holidays. Retention is one of the companies key issues, people burn out and go somewhere that requires less stress/hours.

I managed to move myself into the inside machinist position so I do not travel much anymore, I pretty much manage the workshop and keep the schedule of what comes in and out of my department. They have attempted to get me behind this desk full time on many occasions and I always remind them that my best skill is "breaking things".

As far as the luck is concerned, yes I have been lucky in my life in countless ways. I am very healthy, have never really been hurt outside of the typical broken bone here and there and yearly bout of stitches, and I have a knack for how things mechanical work and I love to fix things. As challenging as this damn job is, I love it.

The decline is really tough. I came out of high school and went straight into the trades. Back then, in the early 80's, the trades offered a path. Come in as basic labor and learn one of the trades and move in that direction. For me it was, grunt-carpenter's helper-carpenter-layout-equipment operator ... then I got tired of the layoffs and moving from project to project so I moved to the manufacturing side -layout-fitter-welder-machinist-millwright to where I am now. Today those paths are no longer there and those jobs pay less than what they did just 15 years ago. I'm not an office person and have never been able to handle the office environment (backstab someone in the office and get a promotion, do that in the shop and you get an asswhooping) so I am lucky that I grew up when I did to allow me to become successful.

Good back and forth. Time to get my ass back out on the floor ...

[magellan]

79. Coffee is the drink of choice here

But I work from home, and beer doesn't mix well with working on the computer all day. By the time I think "beer", the other half is saying "bedtime".

Your job sounds amazing and fulfilling, but it's understandable that someone who's put all the time, effort and expense into a degree would balk. Natural reaction for many, I'd say, especially carrying student loan debt. It could be that such a job isn't even on their radar. Meanwhile, people who would otherwise be a perfect fit are turned away for not having a degree. What a ridiculous Catch-22. But it's happening more and more.

You and I aren't so different...except that I'm a woman. I went from HS into the Navy and then straight into computer work. No degree, and I made good money for the skills I built up before I married and moved abroad. I doubt if I had to do it now I'd get as far as I did back then. Yep, the obstacles to achieving gainful employment these days are far more numerous than they were when we were youngsters. Just the idea of credit and social media checks makes my blood boil. Isn't it amazing how we were able to hire worthy and valuable people before we could peek into their financial histories and demand to see how they spend their Saturday nights?

Trying to find a job in this climate must be soul-crushing. Too many people looking for a decent wage, and too few jobs to go around. "Right to work", "work for free"...what a fucking nightmare. The downward pressure on wages will continue until we're the third world country the corporations are exporting jobs too.

Sorry, I'm just feeling particularly cynical this evening. Guess we all ought to count our blessings and start looking out for each other, because it's a sure bet that no matter what we individually think about taxing corporations or anything else that might help, that help isn't coming.

[Katashi_itto]

34. There are lots of real solutions.

A repatriation holiday that lowered the corporate tax rate for one year to 5.25 percent, would create as many as 2.5 million new jobs and increase U.S. GDP by as much as $336 billion. This report follows a similar one released last month by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which found that the stock buybacks and dividend payments a temporary repatriation holiday would create 3 million jobs and increase U.S. GDP by $360 billion over eight quarters.

[Lurker Deluxe]

53. Certainly

That is certainly an option. Saying that out load on this forum may get you keel hauled by the locals though.

It has been done before with mixed reviews.

The corps in the US are already sitting on a stack though, lots of companies are holding cash. I know we just had the best year on record with an EBIT of 10.9%. All of our Capital expense budgets have been put on hold with no real reasons given.

Not sure what the hell they are waiting on, but I know they are sitting on a pile of cash right now. Hell, our bonus usually pays out second check in March and we have heard nothing about how much it will be.

[gvstn]

46. What do you mean GONE?

Are you saying Apple is not a US corporation? GE is not a US corporation?

Maybe I am naive but I think those corporations are still based in the US and benefit from our laws? If it was more profitable to be based in Dubai and cut all ties with the U.S. I am sure they would have done it long ago. Perhaps they did but I haven't heard about it.

Seems to me all these tax dodging companies still find it to their advantage to be based in the U.S. while they store their profits overseas.
If they want to move to another country and deign to have a factory in the U.S. and give us a few jobs then have at it, but I don't see any of them actually cutting doing that. They just have their lobbyist write the tax laws and enjoy the protections of U.S. law but don't pay their fair share of taxes.

[magellan]

10. I didn't get to duck my US tax obligation when I made money outside the US

And I didn't have employees in the US like GE does.

Fuck GE and all the rest of the huge corporations that hide their profits so they can escape US taxes. I'm sick to the teeth of the US government letting them get away with it and sending them MY tax dollars as a refund, while our puny earnings are gone over with a fine-toothed comb.

[spanone]

11. General Electric Paid No Federal Taxes in 2010 ....dubai awaits....

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/general-electric-paid-federal-taxes-2010/story?id=13224558

[Lurker Deluxe]

16. Yea

The part there that pisses me off is, "More than half of GE's workforce is now outside the United States."

So I guess we will not be happy until that number is 100%, get all those jobs out of here.

ALL OF THEM!!

[spanone]

20. your fucking right if they don't pay their taxes.

[Lurker Deluxe]

21. Who do you work for?

Do they pay their taxes?

Maybe we should send your job overseas too.

FFS, reform the tax code and get this shit fixed before there are no jobs anywhere except WalMart.

The staggering rate that any well paying jobs are fleeing this country should piss anyone off. How do we fix that? Run them bitches out of town.

[indepat]

37. But large corporations, although people, are VIPs. Beside, politicians on both sides of the aisle

would much rather reduce the already-paid-for social security and Medicare benefits of us regular people than to require these oh-so-special VIPs to pay taxes.

[nebenaube]

59. We hold their charter... that's why they need to pay taxes on money earned overseas... I have to. n/

[slackmaster]

15. The place to complain is Congress, which is responsible for maintaining and revising US tax codes.

108 billion dollars. Pay up, fuckers.

There is no legal precedent for any court to issue such an order.

[AndyA]

78. We need legislation that prevents corporations hiding assets from receiving government contracts

If they aren't going to pay their fair share in taxes, they are ineligible for government contracts. Let's see what that does to their profits.

[Frustratedlady]

3. I just picked up my taxes, so I'm in no mood to hear this.

Close those blasted loopholes.

[L0oniX]

4. What is anyone going to do to them ...they make nuke subs. ...Talk about too big to fail. n/t

[Boom Sound 416]

5. Well maybe the next time he's brainstorming

http://m.whitehouse.gov/administration/advisory-boards/jobs-council

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Unplug GE

[LuckyLib]

8. But, but, these are the "job creators"!!!! Too big to tax! We little people have

to pay taxes!

[Rex]

13. Plutocracies work that way.

They help the rich keep on getting richer and the poor keep on getting poorer.

[tarheelsunc]

14. Jack Welch ran this company for 20 years. They know a little something about "cooking the books" eom

[cbrer]

17. Perhaps a more telling OP would be:

GE allowed to avoid taxes by keeping $108 billion overseas.

If our "leaders" didn't create laws and policies that permit this behavior, it would only happen illegally.

[monmouth3]

18. I'm sending this to Elizabeth. I'm sure she knows all about it but going to anyway....

[Rex]

23. Yes 'avoid' pretends they are trying to get away with criminal activity.

Lord knows we have enough garbage thrown at us from the M$M...very good point!

Their minions ALLOWED them to get away with it.

[HiPointDem]

43. & if our 'leaders' weren't given a cut of the ill-gotten gains, they wouldn't be writing those laws.

fuck them all to hell.

[lovuian]

19. 102 billion and no taxes

and they want to know why Americans are getting screwed

[madville]

28. They are buddies with the administration

Jeffrey Immelt, GE CEO, was the chairman of President Obama's Jobs Council, keep up the good work!

[Carolina]

44. isn't that simply

disgusting! The people Obama selects for assorted positions says more about him than anything else, certainly anything he says.

Yes, Mittens would have been worse, a disaster actually, but Obama has been disappointing and I have yet to see the new, 2nd term, BHO!

[treestar]

56. Why don't the countries overseas tax them?

What are they gaining?

[Lurker Deluxe]

58. Really?

What do they gain?

Jobs and money?

How many people are being put to work building crap for consumption. The standard of living is rising in those countries while it is declining here.

They are gaining power. The US dominated in the world for so long, and won the second world war, because we were a manufacturing giant. Today, we don't even make pencil sharpeners ... or the pencils that get sharpened.

[treestar]

69. You are claiming that no taxation creates jobs?

Hmmmm.

[Lurker Deluxe]

70. Hmmmm

What?

If you are a country that provides:

Low labor costs
No regulation
No environmental standards
Low, or no, taxes

Yes, that will create jobs. Job creation is a zero sum game depending on world economic growth. Those conditions will create jobs in the low cost country while costing jobs in the high costs country.

If you believe that to be untrue you are foolish.

There is a balance in there somewhere where the standards make a difference. A well educated labor force is valuable to a company, good education comes from taxes. Infrastructure and labor laws make differences as well, as does security.

You think that companies move to "low costs countries" why??

[treestar]

74. That is a conservative argument

It is funny that conservatives usually rant on about "patriotism." Yet they will leave the US just to avoid its taxes. So the rest of us get to pay to defend their overseas interests when they need that.

[Lurker Deluxe]

76. You can call it whatever you want

It is, however, a fact. Corporations are taking the work from the US and moving it to low cost countries to make more money.

No way to not acknowledge this fact.

Now, you are correct in pointing out that most conservatives would like to turn this country into a "low cost country" by rolling back environmental standards, driving down wages, and removing worker rights.

Do not assume that I favor the things that are happening, but to say "that is a conservative argument" is just being blind. This is happening, and it has been happening for some 25 years.

How to stop it from happening is the discussion, not the fact that it is happening.

[treestar]

77. Well, OK then

You can get into trouble on DU realizing that fact, but it is a fact. This will come up over and over again when DUers post threads about outsourcing and H-1Bs. There are few ideas on what to do about it, and it may be our only hope is wait until those workers in those countries have as much wealth as the US middle class does and won't work for lower pay. There was one really zealous DUer arguing for tariffs, but those have their down side.

[NewJeffCT]

73. They're re-investing that money into wherever they made it

so, if they made money in India, they're investing it in expanding their business in India, be it through building a new factory,R&D or buying a factory or new business there, or whatever.

The same thing in China, Vietnam, Mexico, Eastern Europe, and in the US.

I'm not a big fan of GE, but they are expanding their manufacturing in the US and have brought some jobs back from overseas:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/12/the-insourcing-boom/309166/3?single_page=true

[cherokeeprogressive]

57. Must be what Carney means by "Well-off and well-connected" n/t

[lonestarnot]

60. Fucking thieves stealing from Americans!

[bighart]

61. Don't raise too much of a stink about this,

after all the CEO of GE is our official "jobs czar" and we don't want to make too many waves for him with the administration.

[Initech]

62. If I were in charge profit hoarding like this would be a federal felony.

And money kept offshore would be taxed nearly 200%. This shit has got to stop. They get it all and our government is broke. What's wrong with this picture??

[Seema Sapra]

80. I am a General Electric whistleblower in India

Please read http://seemasapra.blogspot.in/

I am a lawyer who has filed a whistle-blower corruption petition against General Electric Company in the Delhi High Court in India. The matter is Writ Petition Civil No. 1280 of 2012 in the matter of Seema Sapra v General Electric Company and Others