Are Democrats afraid to say, "We need to raise taxes"...

[kentuck]

Are they afraid to just come out and say it like it is. The wealthy have taken more than their share for the last 30 years. They did not pay our bills. They got wealthy in the process. Most everyone else was losing ground as they were taking advantage of low taxes and loopholes. We need to change that. But we cannot do it so long as we have Republicans running the Congress. We ask that you do your patriotic duty and send them home in the next election so we can fix this mess they made and continue to make worse. Be an American. Do what is right for your country.

[upaloopa]

1. I think that is what they mean when they say we need more

revenue or talk about closing loopholes.

[kentuck]

2. In a roundabout way...

yes.

[southernyankeebelle]

3. When they say raise revenue they mean raise taxes and yes I think many people

think we should raise taxes.

[kentuck]

6. Is that why they couch them in softer language and combine them with "spending cuts"?

Why not just come out and say we need to raise taxes and we need to close the loopholes because some folks have taken advantage of our tax codes and loopholes and it needs to be fixed.

[southernyankeebelle]

9. Don't you realize that have people who sit in groups and words are tested on them to see

how they go over. Republicans are very, very good at it. I can't think of the guy who does that for them but he is so good. I wish we had him. He gets these numb nuts to believe anything. Such as instead of saying Inheritance tax they will say the death tax. Its all a play on words.

[kentuck]

11. Don't you realize that is the problem?

Everything has to be poll-tested instead of talking straight to the people.

[southernyankeebelle]

13. Of course I see that as a problem. I want my politican to tell me upfront if we have

to raise taxes then tell me that. I think we need to raise taxes. I think many people think that. Am just telling you what is going on and why people aren't getting it straight.

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. We only pretend we want ...

straight talk ... and then, only if that straight talk matches what we want to hear.

[MrSlayer]

4. Of course.

Not only are they afraid to say it, they, with very few exceptions, don't want to do it. Doing so goes against what their sponsors want. They are the only people they answer to or care about.

[treestar]

5. Probably

It is an unpopular thing to say in any country.

"Raise them on the rich" or the corporations - that's they way to go.

[upaloopa]

7. Just on another subject do you remember another

Democratic board you were on back around 2000 that let wingnuts post their bs?

[kentuck]

12. What was that??

refresh our memory.

[upaloopa]

15. I think you and Ophi I can't remember all his name were there

[kentuck]

16. Opihimoimoi?

He was on DU but I don't recall another site?

[upaloopa]

18. He and I were on another site before we came here I thought

you were too

[kentuck]

20. I don't think so?

I was in an old Prodigy Discussion group many years ago.

[hedgehog]

8. Not the chief Democrat:

"In a news conference following the meeting, Obama said he would continue to make the case that Congress should replace the sequester, which the White House has repeatedly called devastating, with alternative spending cuts and tax hikes on the wealthy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-meets-congressional-leaders-on-sequester/2013/03/01/fa25a440-827b-11e2-b99e-6baf4ebe42df_story.html

[Seeking Serenity]

10. Look what happened to Walter Mondale in 1984

In his nomination acceptance speech, he promised to raise taxes.

He went on to lose 49 of 50 states and only garnered 13 electoral votes (Minn., his home state, and the District of Columbia), the second lowest electoral vote tally in American history).

Maybe that can explain Democrats' crop-shyness to coming right out and saying, "We're gonna raise taxes."

[kentuck]

14. maybe? But that was a different time.

And different circumstances. That was before the Republicans had run the debt sky high.

[Seeking Serenity]

21. That's as may be

but I've got a feeling that the middle class (not-wealthy) voter still has a visceral reaction to hearing, "We need to raise taxes," 'cause he thinks that means they coming after him.

(And the NY Times editorial board last week or week before said exactly as much, that we need to raise taxes on the wealthy as a way of conditioning the middle class to accept tax increases on them.)

[denverbill]

17. We don't need to 'raise taxes'. We need to eliminate loopholes and tax breaks.

Like carried interest being taxed at 15% instead of as regular income. Like capital gains being taxed at a different rate from income earned through hard work. Like oil company tax breaks and revenue lost due to outsourcing and offshoring.

[kentuck]

19. That is true.

Perhaps "Get rid of the loopholes" should be our mantra?

[1StrongBlackMan]

23. It is! n/t

[denverbill]

24. I can't think of a great mantra.

Unfortunately, if the end result is an increase in revenue to the government, Republicans will brand it a tax increase anyway.

Personally, I think our best hope of getting any more revenue at this point is in small bites. Republicans are going to pitch a fit about sequestration. I'd offer restoring cuts one by one in return for eliminating loopholes. They want a $1 billion program restored, then trade it for $1 billion decrease in tax breaks for offshore oil drillers. I really don't see it happening any other way.

[jmowreader]

26. We could call them fees

That's what Texas does: the things they call taxes are relatively low, but they have a lot of fees and they're high enough that the net effect is a Texan is taxed to death.

[jmowreader]

25. No, we need to raise tax rates

There are simply not enough "loopholes" to solve the problem. Consider also this: Reagan decided to pay for his rate cuts by closing loopholes like non-mortgage interest and passive loss. The passive loss deduction was the only thing that made commercial real estate leasing profitable, and the savings and loan industry was heavily invested in financing these properties. When Reagan killed this deduction he killed the S&L industry. Oh, but he compensated the banks for it by killing the deduction for interest on credit cards and car loans...that's what made second mortgages so popular.

I am going to reintroduce my simple, easy to understand tax increase:

Add 1 percent to the 10 percent bracket, 2 percent to the 15 percent bracket and so on until the 35 percent bracket is paying 6 percent more. All the current deductions and credits stay in place. It won't hurt The Poor because the EIC that we'll retain requires a person with a child to have a fairly substantial income before they pay any tax.

After we do that we can start increasing the capital gains rate. I would support a two-tier CG rate: flat 17 percent (current rate is 15, so it's still an increase) on securities bought directly from the issuing company and taxing as ordinary income securities bought from a brokerage. One justification for the lower rate is that investing helps companies grow. The counterpoint is that most investing is like buying a Packard automobile. Buying a Packard can't help the Packard company because Packard quit making cars so long ago the last one off the line is old enough to collect Social Security. With stock it's similar: when you go to a broker to buy Acme stock it's Rich Guy B buys stock from Rich Guy A and Acme gets no more money to make Exploding Birdseed work or to settle lawsuits brought by stupid coyotes. If Acme benefits from the transaction, like the CG lovers claim, give the lower rates.

Try this on your redneck friends: Jimmie Johnson is a race car driver. He drives the Lowe's car. If he earns a million dollars driving at Charlotte, the IRS will make him send them $350,000 of it. But if he sat in a bank in Charlotte and made a million dollars trading stock, he'd only have to send in $150,000. Now, you can see the hypocrisy in that, can't you?

[Catherina]

27. We don't need to raise taxes. We need to stop all these wars

We need to stop being the number 1 arms dealer and warmonger on the planet and setting up our entire government around that.

[think]

28. And: Why are Democrats afraid to say:

"The republicans under George W. Bush cut taxes for the wealthy while INCREASING spending on wars and neglecting America's infrastructure. 8 years of fiscally unsound spending policies have wreaked havoc on our nation. So we as Democrats are doing the RESPONSIBLE thing and restoring tax levels NOT RAISING THEM to a time where the US budget was in balance and the American economy was robust."

Seriously.......