We Saw You, Boob

[Matariki]

A man's voice in the 'debate':
http://msmagazine.com/blog/2013/02/28/we-saw-you-boob/

Seth McFarlane’s hosting of the Oscars has been roundly criticized. As a man who works to stop violence against women, I want to add my voice to the chorus.

Many women have pointed out McFarlane’s sexism–Lindy West links to many of them in her Jezebel article. Her article also coined a wonderful phrase: “sexism fatigue.” She says,

I am tired of trying to have an intellectual discussion about dog-whistle sexism in a culture where prominent politicians are still trying to grasp what rape is, and in a world where little girls are shot in the head because they want to go to school.

I think West has every right to be tired, and I think it’s men’s job to confront this kind of sexism more than we have been. Maybe some men were laughing at the “boob” song, but I was cringing and so were my guy friends. I received emails where the subject line was capitalized and included the F bomb. Guys who understand the connection between daily indignities of “comedic” sexism and violence against women were outraged, and it’s our duty to speak out against it.

[hedgehog]

1. Best thread title on this topic!

[6000eliot]

2. Is this a dog whistle?

The song was ABOUT sexism.

[Matariki]

3. Is that why SO many people have reacted against it?

Why so much has been written about how it was inappropriate at the Oscars and demeaning to women?

Just too sophisticated of a brand of humor and irony for most people?

[6000eliot]

5. Well, no one ever went broke . . .

[cali]

15. It was done poorly. That may well have been its intent

though it doesn't account for the other sexist shit. I could give a fuck if it was done as some sort of post-ironic cool riff(s).

He had an audience of a billion.

[redqueen]

26. Yeahright... and he's cleared that up himself, has he? nt

[seabeyond]

4. men running all over du for three days playing their continual little boobie game to irritate women

that much more. pathetic.

thank you so so much for this article.

I am tired of trying to have an intellectual discussion about dog-whistle sexism in a culture where prominent politicians are still trying to grasp what rape is, and in a world where little girls are shot in the head because they want to go to school.

who is the fool.

[Zax2me]

6. Snooze

[Indepatriot]

7. Macfarlane was LAMPOONING HOLLYWOODS/AMERICAS OBSESSION WITH BREASTS

In a room full of people who make their living selling "sex appeal". It must be hell going through life without a functioning sense of humor. I thought he was great, juvenile at times, but mostly funny and sang and danced quite well for a comedian. Mostly, I'm appalled that anyone sits through this annual wank-fest. I only youtubed it over the "controversy" ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...
P.S. there are 2 controls on your remote that would solve this "outrage", one is the channel button, the other is the ON/OFF switch. Learning to use them might help you get through the trauma of Seth Macfarlane singing about boobs......

[Buzz Clik]

9. No shit!

The song came across as sophomoric, but it never struck me as sexist.

Seriously, how is it sexist to say, "I saw your boobs" to someone whose boobs you saw? Someone who put her naked boobs on tens of thousands of giant screens and was paid huge sums of money to do so?

Let's put this one to bed.

[BellaLuna]

10. Outrage is much more fun than accepting that though

I simply cannot believe the insanity that continues to fester over this for the very reason you state.

[deutsey]

19. If only there was the same widespread fury across the country over the sequestor

I didn't see the skit, so I'm not going to defend it other than to say from what I've read it was part of a larger skit involving Capt. Kirk from the future. Frankly, I'm not a MacFarlane fan, so I wouldn't be surprised if I would not like the skit if I ever saw it.

However, I'd love to see the same level of anger this skit has roused directed from across the country at Congress and in particular the GOP for this sequestor/austerity bullshit.

[BellaLuna]

47. That would mean people are paying attention to something important

I doubt few people even realize what is going on with the sequester but they sure know won American Idol and that there was a boob song.

Sad.

[SunSeeker]

14. As pointed out in other threads, his list referenced bare breasts in rape scenes.

The rape scenes of Jodie Foster in The Accused and Hillary Swank in Boys Don't Cry were not filmed to gratuitously sell their sex appeal. Women are often unclothed when raped.

And bare breasts in the context of the depiction of the life of a tormented woman who killed herself is not sexploitation.

Most of the movies mentioned, if not all, were excellent works—“Silkwood,” “Brokeback Mountain,” “Monster’s Ball,” “Monster,” “The Accused,” “Iris,” "Gia"—and not exactly teen-exploitation pictures. MacFarlane's song intentionally reduces professional actresses and strong performances to boob shots.

I am sure the OP poster has a "functioning sense of humor," as do I. But some things just aren't funny. Like making a sexist joke about a serious actress in a rape scene in an attempt to "lampoon America's obsession with breasts."

And yes, you can turn it off, but that still does not make what he did acceptable. The show was beamed to living rooms around the world, with kids watching.

[Indepatriot]

17. If you're letting your young children watch the Oscars, you/the kids have bigger problems than Seth.

I would think those living rooms it was "beamed" to also have an OFF SWITCH, no?
Let me ask a hypothetical question; When one of those hideous cases of abusive parents who lock their kids in a closet for hours/days /years comes to light, do you call for the elimination of closets in all houses?, or for the carpenters who built those closets to be pilloried? How about some good old-fashioned parental responsibility? In my home, we have no cable or broadcast television, only a DVD player to watch programs we personally select. My 2nd grade daughter is currently reading at an 8th grade level, and is already a proud feminist, who's been raised to take no disrespect from anyone. After dinner we take walks, have conversation/music/reading. If you're looking to Hollywood to raise your kids you have a lifetime of disappointment ahead...

[SunSeeker]

18. It's a free country, if you say stupid shit, you can't complain about being pilloried.

It is sad that broadcast television is so bad that some folks, like you, have chosen not to have it in your home. There is nothing wrong with pointing out that what MacFarlane did was inappropriate. Maybe that will improve the next broadcast. I am not suggesting that bad comics, or closets, be eliminated, LOL.

[Indepatriot]

21. My point exactly, you're free to say and do what you will, within reason. So if you're offended by a

juvenile comedy bit you're free to not watch it, while those who enjoyed it, of whom there were literally millions, should be free to enjoy it without being labeled anti woman/feminist/breast/american etc... Free Speech cuts both ways, as does the spirit of tolerance. Personally, I'm very much offended by the lies and disinformation of FOX "news" and by about 95% of what passes for "religious" programming, but I don't believe either of them should be censored. I say let them have at it, show themselves for who they are, and enlightened minds will choose to have nothing to do with them. Regarding the "closets" metaphor, I used that in a "debate" over censorship with an evangelical classmate of mine about 30 (?!!!) years ago in a Broadcast Journalism class, and he replied that yes, the builders were culpable as well as the parents....the entire class broke into laughter, and the professor sat there, literally open-mouthed in his amazement. (It's possible that young zealot works for FOX now....)

[SunSeeker]

31. BTW, why were you watching the Oscars if you won't allow broadcast tv in your home?

[Indepatriot]

49. As I said in my first post, I checked it out on Huffpo to see what all the fuss was about...

[MadrasT]

43. Not this ridiculous free-speecher "argument" again.

should be free to enjoy it without being labeled anti woman/feminist/breast/american etc... Free Speech cuts both ways, as does the spirit of tolerance

"Free speech cuts both ways" would actually mean that when people do sexist shit, other people get to label it "sexist".

Free speech doesn't mean you also get a free pass to say whatever you want without pushback.

[abelenkpe]

52. Yeah

I should be compared to a child abuser who locks their kid in a closet or starves them for letting my kids watch the oscars where my team and work was up for two awards. Horrible me. Shockingly my kids also read at an advanced level so ther goes your justification for self righteous superiority.

[Indepatriot]

57. Tell me, who compared you to a child abuser?

And why am I "self righteous" for not having the television on in my home every day? Sounds like someone's just a tad insecure about their work. If you choose to let your kids watch the Oscars that's your prerogative, but don't get out the fainting couch when your industry, that lives on sex and innuendo, has an award show that contains as much. Pay attention, and you'll realize I'm on YOUR side. I believe in freedom of expression, that TV/Film producers should do as they please, and that parents should take an active roll in determining what's appropriate for young children to be exposed to. I'm still having trouble with the No TV = Self Righteous Superiority thing..... please, enlighten me Mr/Ms. "Award Winning Team"

[lame54]

23. Fuck the children...

[SunSeeker]

28. Not his best work.

Particularly where he defends tobacco companies' use of Joe Camel type ads targeted at kids.

[planetc]

30. Pardon the inconvenience. We are trying to change the world.

For women, I think it's *impossible* to go through life without a functioning sense of humor. But that doesn't mean some subjects shouldn't be taken seriously, and sexism is one of them.

Since 1968, feminists have been pointing out that it *matters* what words we use to talk about women. It matters because the words we speak, or sing, are the words we think in. Our habitual vocabulary colors our opinions. So here we feminists are in 2013, still trying to get the language cleaned up a little. The reaction to the Boobs Song is not trivial, it is important, and it is our duty to speak out at egregious examples of sexism.

So, to be told we can exercise our option not to be "outraged" by the song by turning it off is to be caricatured. I was not outraged. I was bored, and the whole topic sometimes makes me feel bone-tired. Frankly, I resent being forced to point out the sexism of an internationally broadcast TV show. IN 2013. We should have been past this stage of our work by now.

But as long as the producers of this widely watched show think that half their audience will be amused by inane songs about boobs, and the opinion of the other half doesn't matter, we will speak out. Shame on them. Do better next time, Motion Picture Academy.

[redqueen]

33. Excellent. Very well said.

[planetc]

39. Thank you. I've got more where that came from, if needed. eom

[BellaLuna]

48. There is a huge difference between the 'c' word and the boob song

Continuing to be outraged on this stupid song keeps the focus off the legit issues.

[snooper2]

8. I only get to watch spongebob, Peppa Pig and Bubble guppies..

is DU the only one talking about Seth's boob still?

[okieinpain]

12. LOL. you should see my netflix

recommend list. it nothing but stuff like its the explorer.

[fugop]

11. Dude is so going to get laid for this article! NT

[SheilaT]

13. How fortunate I am to not even own a TV.

I miss so much that is truly inconsequential.

[cali]

16. uh, anything that reaches an audience of a billion is hardly inconsequential.

[SheilaT]

20. Simply because a billion people watched

does not make it consequential. It's only a sad commentary on how mindless vast numbers of people are. Meanwhile, actual ignorance, willful ignorance, dangerous ignorance, all grow exponentially.

The last time around when I was without a TV for around 8 years, a co-worker, upon learning that, quickly assumed I'd be quite ignorant of what was going on in the world. This was in the 1970's, so no internet either. Imagine his surprise when I was actually better-informed than he was on a huge variety of topics. I read weekly news magazines, because back then they were pretty good. I read The Washington Post as I lived in the DC area. I read lots of books and other kinds of magazines.

The other thing about not owning a TV and having a computer so I can access the Internet is that I miss almost all commercial advertizing. It's wonderful. I especially do not get any political ads at all, no matter what I view on-line, unless Rachel chooses to play an ad or part of one. Four years ago, in 2008, sometimes on the internet I'd get an ad urging me to vote for someone running for the United States House of Representatives in a district on the other side of the state I live in. And the ads for that guy were the ONLY ads I got that year, and I got none whatsoever this year. How wonderful is that?

The other good thing about not having a TV but having the internet, is that when real breaking news occurs, I can go on-line and see streaming broadcasts from various outlets. Sometimes CNN will go to live streaming. Invariably the local TV stations where the thing has occurred will start streaming.

When that tornado hit Joplin a while back, someone here on DU posted a link to the live feed from the field of the Weather Channel guy who was storm chasing and arrived in Joplin just behind the tornado itself. That was some of the most interesting coverage I've ever seen on anything. If you were watching regular TV, you only got to see him for about five minutes every half hour when he did his report from the field. In between he was continuing to talk to people and his cameraman filmed the damage.

Meanwhile, by not seeing whatever it is that has had so many people in an uproar all week, I've had time to do lots of other things that (at least to me) are much more worthwhile.

What I want to make clear is this: while TV can be quite wonderful, its ubiquitous presence in almost every home in this country leads people to a passive acceptance of what the TV Overlords deem is important. Much of the time, in my humble opinion, those things aren't important at all. Best example of this is the day Michael Jackson died. When I got home from work that evening at 9pm I went to watch Keith Olbermann, because MSNBC always put his program up on their website about an hour after it aired. No Keith. I could not figure out why, but that happened once in a while. It was easily six months later that I learned from some comment by someone that all of the networks had gone to live OMG! MICHAEL JACKSON IS DEAD! coverage. With all due respect, Mr. Jackson's passing simply did not deserve that sort of wall-to-wall coverage. An hour or so to give an overview of his life, but the entire day? Really?

What's happened is that because of these kinds of things most people have no sense of what may actually be important and what might not be, because they take their cues from what they see on TV. I am constantly suggesting to people that they do without theirs, and on one ever takes me up on it. That's okay. It's their choice. But there are consequences, and one huge one is accepting what's on it is the most important stuff to pay attention to.

[GeorgeGist]

22. +1000

Thanks for your smarts.

[SheilaT]

24. Thank you for appreciating me.

I try to pay attention to things and I try to express myself clearly when I post. I don't always manage that, alas.

[redqueen]

32. It's nice that you don't have a tv, but it and reactions to it influence many people.nt

[cali]

50. Of course it does. It effects how people view things.

And I'm someone who lived without tv for far longer than you did. Hell, I didn't even have electricity for years.

But so what? Most people are influenced by what's on tv- whether YOU want to recognize that or not.

[SheilaT]

56. I know that so many are influenced by what

they see on TV. That's what's so scary.

In two words: Fox News.

[redqueen]

25. "Guys who understand the connection between daily indignities of “comedic” sexism and violence

against women were outraged, and it’s our duty to speak out against it."

Cue the Hallelujah Chorus!

[SunSeeker]

35. +1

[redqueen]

36. Wish we had a lot more like him on DU. nt

[SunSeeker]

37. Yes, sadly. Our work is far from done. We don't even have the ERA. nt

[redqueen]

38. Synchronicity

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022447451

[SunSeeker]

40. You rock.

[redqueen]

42. Awww, thanks.

[BainsBane]

46. No kidding

What we've got are a lot of McFarlane wannabees, without the talent.

[Trajan]

27. Hypervigilant moralizing ...

It's what DU is all about ....

What silly bullshit ....

. o O ( yes ... I said bullshit ... come and get me )

[SunSeeker]

34. It is not "moralizing"-It is objecting to making sport of rape scenes.

All for the grins and giggles of 13 year old boys and those who think like them. And if you don't like DU's "hypervigilence," why are you here?

[Trajan]

53. People who say the word "boob" are not promoting rape

How absurd ...

I've been here for over a decade, and, while there have always been a small group of petty nannies who become apoplectic at the mere mention of a breast, by any other name ...They never were considered to be reasonable ...

I'm not going anywhere ... get used to DUers disagreeing with you ... strongly disagreeing with you ...

[SunSeeker]

54. Oy. It's the context, not the fact that they mentioned breasts.

I have no problem with people mentioning breasts, nor do I have a problem with nudity. I am no prude. It is the context. I am a feminist. To me, what is important is whether the mention was used to degrade. Pointing out that this was making sport of rape scenes is hardly being "apoplectic." It is just pointing out a fact, and expressing the opinion that this was not funny and was inappropriate for a show watched by a billion people of all ages. It is sad that little girls grow up believing all people value them for is their boobs...which is what this sort of "humor" perpetuates.

So now it is not all of DU but just a small group of "petty nannies" that are "hypervigilant"? Rest assured I am fine with people here disagreeing with me. And I don't mock DU or resort to name-calling DUers when they do. I wish I could say the say of you.

[Arkana]

29. Next year bring back Billy fucking Crystal.

[smirkymonkey]

41. Thank you Matariki!

Don't listen to the idiots or let them get you down!

[MadrasT]

44. Thank you.

[BainsBane]

45. If more men took that view

the world would be a far better place. Thanks for the OP!

[abelenkpe]

51. Upset about the boob song?

Personally I'm more upset about Bill Westenhofer being cut off during his speech after winning the academy award for best VFX for life of Pi in what Mark Ruffalo admitted was a planned event to squelch the VFX community from speaking out about their treatment. Did you know there was a protest outside the oscars with VFX workers calling for greater job security and recognition of their contribution to all of the multimillion dollar film successes of the past decade? That the company that won the Oscar for Life of Pi just went bankrupt laying off hundreds while the movie has made over 500 million dollars worldwide?

Seth Macfalane has always been crass and the boob song and dance was in horrible taste. He excels at shocking people and making audiences uncomfortable. Seriously doubt he'll ever host again. I applaud men who speak out in support of women against any and all types of sexism.

[Tom Ripley]

55. Nudity in any kind of film, with the exception of porn, is gratuitous...

being that nudity is the point of porn (well, that and arousal)