General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat can we afford?
Dan Kervick writes:
Consider the case of health care. Many people claim that we are facing a social crisis over the long-term path of our health care expenditures. But if there is indeed a crisis over our societys total projected long-run health care obligations, then we need to label it as such. Its not a deficit problem, or a public debt problem, and pretending it can be addressed by fixing the debt or reducing the governments deficit is, at best, simply an irresponsible punt. At worst, it is a dishonest attempt to exploit public fear and confusion over budgetary matters in order to push Americans into accepting a less prosperous and more unequal society in which the wealthy continue to detach themselves from the rest of the country and its shared commitments, and force the less affluent to accept a lower overall level and quality of health care.
<snip>
So its just totally dishonest to say about any problem, We have to reduce the public commitment, because the government will never be able to afford this, while saying with the same breath that the whole society will be able to afford it. If the society can afford it, then obviously the government can afford it since the government is just an agent of the society. The separate debate about public provision vs. private provision is a debate about delivery mechanisms, not about budgets and affordability.
(Read more: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2013/02/blinder-leading-the-blind.html)
Is the problem distribution, or are we facing actual scarcity?
99Forever
(14,524 posts).. deliberately drummed up as an excuse to fuck the general populace out of as much as possible to enrich the fatcat scum that has purchased our government.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)I am no fan of Time Magazine, and neither is Jon Stewart.
But this past week, he had on Steve Brill, a Time journalist, on the TV, and what develops is a knock it out of the park discussion.
We had this Crappopla HC "Reform" that somehow didn't manage to even discuss how the Big Industries, that is, Big Pharma, Big Hospitals, and Big Insurers, have given us the shaft, while either our government leaders don't know it is happening, or don't care.
Watch this article and see why the pricing that surrounds health care and its procedures is an absolute travesty!
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-february-21-2013/exclusive---steven-brill-extended-interview-pt--1
PETRUS
(3,678 posts)Thanks for the link. Someone posted the Time article here on DU the other day and I read a bit of it.
I also saw a blog entry on the Time article. The writer quoted this from Brill:
And responded with (here's where it gets vulgar):
Our problem is not a matter of shitty policy arrangements. We have plenty of those. Whatever. Policy is a third-order pile of bullshit. Our problem is that it is a sick excuse for a society when this sort of ass-rape is relegated by custom and practice into the sphere of the private, the sort of bureaucratic struggle one quietly hires professionals to deal with and hides as much as possible from friends and coworkers. Ass-rape of the more literal sort is also a private affair, in the first order. We insist upon it being public, because a society whose customs tolerated the maintenance of its first-order privacy would be a miserable, detestable place in which the powerful quietly ass-raped the powerless and were never held to account. The difference between literal ass-rape and what happened to Alice and Steven D. is not that ass-rape is criminal while health-care price-gouging, although regrettable, is not. To say that is to confuse cause for effect. Literal ass-rape is criminal because we-the-people as a broad-based mass are disgusted by it and insist upon it being a public and criminal matter rather than a quiet tragedy and struggle. When we hear about a Joe Paterno who overlooks this requirement, we literally hound the motherfucker to death. Perhaps unfairly, in any particular case pitchforks are simultaneously sharp and blunt instruments! The sheer fear of which is why the powerful create laws. But where laws arent there, the pitchforks must always be. A society that expects laws to substitute for, rather than channel, public outrage, is a society not long for this world in any form worthy of the name.
Anyway...
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)yet accepted "business model practices" are most appropriate. At least, I find them acceptable. After losing my retirement monies to one medical mis-diagnosis (But i did manage to keep the misdiagnosed spouse alive,) I feel few activities are worse tan the business model allowed by our hospital chains.
I also very much liked that last paragraph posted at your link:
As soon as you delve into the policy wonkery in cases like this, you are submitting to a conspiracy by the powerful against the many. The greater the sphere of disagreeable things that are complicated, the more it is possible to construct intricate and inscrutable bureaucracies to arbitrate. There will be think-tanks and policy papers, funded by people who are well-meaning (in a narrow, idiotically un-self-aware way) but very rich and powerful. The conclusions of which will be earnest and carefully researched but confined to a window not very upsetting to the very rich and powerful. Undoing the ability of plutocrat hospital CEOs, or bankers or lobbyists or whatever, to continue the sort of ass-rape to which their lifestyles have grown accustomed will not be on the table. A good society depends on an active public, first and foremost. A society that has allowed the predations of the powerful to become purely private matters mediated via markets, courts, academies, and bureaucracies, that has delegated activism to a mostly protected professional class, is nothing more than a herd hoping that today it is somebody else who will be slaughtered.
Is that who we are?
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)you'll be closer to the mark.
if congress was swallowed up by an earthquake i wouldn't shed a tear.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)HiPointDem - I have been known to cue up the DVD player to the exact loop in "Mars Attacks" where the aliens smoosh up DC into one alien-destroyed clump of ash. Gotta hand it to those little guys from Mars - a lot of our problems might be solved.
One other thing, one reason Washington DC is the Capital - the Founding Fathers wanted the nation's capital to be quite aways away from the Big Money Interests of New York City. Of course, they didn't envision a society in which the airplane would unite the East Coast. Or a world when a lobbyist's bribes could be done digitally, without either participant leaving their desk.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)We decide what it is that we want..
We assign taxation to cover the cost
That's how easy it is..
The more we want need, the more we pay..
It's like car shopping..
If you want a new Cadillac/BMW/Porsche/Mercedes, you cannot expect to pay "used Chevy" prices..
Wars should always cost EXTRA
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)"how much are we collectively paying for health care without a universal program?" Each of us either pays premiums, or our employer pays premiums, or the government pays for our care. These dollars will not have to be spent on premiums, although there would be a transfer to higher taxes paying those same "premiums" to the government instead. We do not know if it would cost more or less than the way we do it, because no one looks at it this way. Pay it to this hand, or pay it to that hand, you are still paying it.
PETRUS
(3,678 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Quick answer:
http://www.poshstuffonline.com/luxurygoods/the-world%E2%80%99s-most-expensive-playhouse-is-custom-built-for-150000
Oh,...and check out these prices...
http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/de+la+grand+cru+cote+nuit+romanee+conti+vosne+burgundy
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)It's capital strike. The government can't afford the wealthy. They need to cough up more in taxes. Cutting more services would be insane, it would take more money out of circulation.
PETRUS
(3,678 posts)Aw, hell... it's such utter hogwash, I can't even type it as a joke.