I agree with Republicans – The tax code is not fair and should be changed.

[SmileyRose]

I am in the bottom 10% of wage earners and pay an effective rate (after all loopholes, deductions and credits) of 22.85% in Federal taxes on EVERY SINGLE PENNY I MAKE. . It is only fair for the top 10% pay no more or no less on every single penny they make.

Federal income tax, effective tax rate 9%
Payroll tax total 12.4% (half paid by employer direct rather than paying me)
Medicare tax 1.45%

Forget the different taxes. If the rich people think charging the bottom 10% about 23% of every penny they ever make in federal taxes is appropriate then I say they can do the same in exchange for the exact same benefits I get. $900 a month when I'm too sick and used up to work anymore.

it’s not fair to PUNISH the success rich people have worked so hard for and ask them to only pay 10% or less in Federal taxes. They should pay 23% on every single penny they ever make and expect $900 a month and basic medical care when they are too old and used up to read the dividend reports.

[OceanEcosystem]

1. I'm immensely confused by the tax "facts" thrown forth by both sides.

One side claims that the wealthy pay the vast majority of all federal income taxes in America.

The other side claims that the wealthy are paying too little and actually aren't being taxed at much of a high rate.


So which is it?

[TexasBushwhacker]

2. Apples and oranges

The 13% that Romney paid on his millions in income is more than the 23% that a low income person pays.

So is it fair that the investment class pay a lower RATE than people who make their money from the sweat of their brow?

[marsis]

3. Yup apples and oranges.

I've also heard many numbers being thrown around on this issue.
Let's tale an example. The right claims the wealthy pays 90% (pick a number) of Federal income taxes. Maybe that's true but another look and you realize that they make 95% of all income. Add to that all the monies they are able to hide overseas and claim as capital gains and you can maybe catch a glimpse of a small portion of why we are in this mess.
Leave it to the media types, who are mostly in the upper brackets, to hide and obfuscate the truth.

[OceanEcosystem]

5. From what I read, the rich pay a significantly higher proportion of U.S. federal taxes

in relation to the proportion of all U.S. income that they earn.

[Kingofalldems]

6. Link please

[OceanEcosystem]

9. Here

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/10/cbo-rich-pay-outsized-share-taxes/

[Kingofalldems]

10. You link the Moonie paper?

Please.

[Ikonoklast]

16. Not surprising coming from that one.

I wonder who they were last time?

[Kingofalldems]

17. Oops.

This is HUGH!

[SmileyRose]

12. Where are the individual stats?

What effective percentage of income does a millionaire pay in federal taxes combined?
What effective percentage of income does a minimum wage earner working full time pay in federal taxes combined?


It's convenient to site a RW publication giving vague "facts" that have been manipulated God only knows how but it doesn't support your claim that the rich are being taxed at a higher individual percentage than I am.

[ThomThom]

23. SS just went back 6.5% from 4.5% I think that is about a 30% increase

I would like to see the wealthiest people's taxes go up 30% also
They pay the most taxes because they make most of the money simple

[Kingofalldems]

22. Two days and still no response.

[SmileyRose]

8. Link?

Mitt had to skip some eligible deductions to meet the 13% he swore he paid and could not release the rest because it was an embarrassment how little he paid. That's just in income taxes. If you compare his overall federal rate including FICA and Medicare tax on every penny then it will drive it down even lower.

Warren Buffet has proven his average effective overall federal rate on all taxes combined is between 4 and 6%.

Oprah has said essentially the same.


And they don't pay a penny on the WEALTH just the INCOME. And the laws about what qualifies as INCOME for the rich is mighty interesting.

[HangOnKids]

19. Really? What are you reading?

Because I just need to know how those poor rich folks are being taxed so heavily. Do not post RW rags in your reply, and thanks so much!!!

[SmileyRose]

7. Raw $ versus percentages.

The rich guy who signs my paychecks bitches and moans CONSTANTLY about the $100,000 in total taxes (state federal and local) he paid in 2012. I keep his books and know he raked in almost $1.4 million in profit from this business alone. That leaves out any investment income.

Obvious my federal percentage is MUCH higher than his and he's just bitching about how AWFUL it is to be a millionaire. If the twit wants fair then let him pay the same PERCENTAGE I do, and get ONLY the benefits I do.

Republicans keep saying the tax code is UNFAIR. In my opinion they are right. Problem is they are offended that the paycheck signers should even have to bother paying the wage slaves AT ALL. But to have to pay ANYTHING in taxes just gives the poor delicate souls the vapors.

[0rganism]

11. both are true, due to income disparity

The wealthy do pay a majority of taxes in America. They aren't taxed at a significantly higher rate, though. Thing is, about half of the income goes to the top 10%, and 20% of the income goes to the top 1%.

[hfojvt]

13. it's both

the wealthy are paying the vast majority of Federal Income taxes

and yet they are paying a much lower percentage than ever before.

tax rate here http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/169

Of the 1.03 trillion in income tax revenues in 2009, those with incomes over $100,000 (a mere 12.7% of all tax filers) paid a whopping $769 billion of that total or 77%.

But now consider the Obama-Bush tax cuts. $3.7 trillion with $1.3 trillion going to the richest 5% and $2.4 trillion going to the top 20%. Figure that on a yearly basis. $130 billion to the top 5% and another $110 billion to the next 15% and $130 billion to the bottom 80%. Subtract that from the total (and figure that because income tax filers include lots of teenagers that the 12.7% is really 20% of adults)
$769 - $240 = $529
$261 - $130 = $131
$529 + 131 = $660 (dang if only I could have gotten $6 billion more, it would have been so apropos)
$529/$660 = 80%

And voila, I just gave $110 billion more (per year) in tax cuts to the top 20% than I did to the bottom 80% and STILL, paradoxically, ended up with the top 20% paying a higher share of the new lower total.

Isn't math wonderful? Often, if you dig hard enough, you can find a statistic which will tell people what you want them to hear. In this case, the rich want us to hear that "the rich are over taxed".

As the quote goes "Some people use statistics the way a drunk uses a lamp post. Not for illumination, but for support."

As an added bonus, when you give $1 million a year in tax cuts to Mitt Romney, like Obama and the Democratic Party just did, with their ATRAzine bill, you can also tax some people who now pay $100 in taxes and knock their bill down to zero, thus increasing that mythical 47% of "lucky duckies" who pay no taxes (because of a $100 tax cut) and pay no attention to that man behind the curtain carrying away a wheelbarrow full of cash.

[datasuspect]

4. there's that

and if you're a wage earner, they get their money before you even get it.

if you're like me, they get to keep that, plus they get a nice fat check at the beginning of every year.

there's a really big pool of small fish they soak.

if you're making between 30000 to 100000 per year, have little or no interest or dividend income, you're like a walking fucking ATM. and there's more of us then there of them: not a bad scam.

[reformist2]

14. Let them have their flat tax - on wealth.

[Sunlei]

15. awww noo I just got my horse to dance for her new church donations :(

Now I'm going to have to start a PAC and donate to myself to pay no taxes

anything republicans want is some kind of trick

[Make7]

18. If your effective Federal income tax rate is 9%...

... wouldn't your income be close to $31,625 (based on filing as single taking the standard deduction and exemption - which I think would be the worst case)? Isn't that income around the bottom 34th percentile level (according to the 2012 census data)? Certainly way above the bottom 10 percent. I don't know where you are getting your numbers.

BTW - Your employer also pays 1.45% in Medicare tax to match your contribution.

[taught_me_patience]

20. If it makes you feel better, my wife and I pay 34% federal taxes (your calcs)

on an income of 275k.

It's also a bit disengenuous to include the 6% your employer pays to the payroll tax... they pay it... not you.

[SmileyRose]

21. I disagree. It's paid on my behalf in lieu of income.

The only benefit I get of that is that the money the employer pays to FICA and Medicare is not subject to my income taxes the way the part I pay is.

I'm supposed to believe if Social Security were done away with the employer would pay that money to me. I don't believe that but that's the justification they use.

Another posted that the upper middle income people get hammered the worst. I agree with that. You make enough to get the progressive end of the tax burden but not enough to hire an armada of lawyers and accountants to find tax loopholes and Cayman Island dodges.

I don't feel good about anyone paying half their paycheck in taxes. Work should not be punished no matter how big or small the paycheck is.

[Puzzledtraveller]

24. I make less than 30k and owe every year

money I do not have to begin with. I claim 1 just so I can make ends meet each month. I'm single and don't own a home so the government can give a rats ass about me.