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Joe (Original Post) Scuba Feb 2013 OP
You tell 'em, Joe. HappyMe Feb 2013 #1
My thought exactly! nt Honeycombe8 Feb 2013 #13
Gotta love him. He's the original BFD. pinboy3niner Feb 2013 #2
I only wish we'd hear such sharp-edged candor Plucketeer Feb 2013 #15
+3 kurtzapril4 Feb 2013 #38
Yeah working out great isn't it? SammyWinstonJack Feb 2013 #41
BFD...that says it perfectly! Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #39
Whoa. That reminds me of another great quote from Cold Mountain. Baitball Blogger Feb 2013 #3
If I remember correctly.. FiggyJay Feb 2013 #4
Yes he did.. but did he vote to not fund them? Did anyone? mountain grammy Feb 2013 #5
Congress was lied to, just like the American people AndyA Feb 2013 #6
Yeggzactly so. xtraxritical Feb 2013 #30
Joe was lied to Lordquinton Feb 2013 #7
he knew better... come on NoMoreWarNow Feb 2013 #37
I think so too. nt. SammyWinstonJack Feb 2013 #42
so you're psychic now? Lordquinton Feb 2013 #48
he was smart enough to know better NoMoreWarNow Feb 2013 #51
My thoughts exactly. (nt) harmonicon Feb 2013 #36
He didn't vote for the tax cuts.... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #40
Joe is a great VP. progressivejazzredux Feb 2013 #8
I thought he would have made a great one in 2008, too! :-) gateley Feb 2013 #53
Just Like Harry Truman chuckstevens Feb 2013 #9
K&R - nt Ohio Joe Feb 2013 #10
If there isn't a Dem President in 2016. Lobo27 Feb 2013 #11
There's no oil in N. Korea. It'll be Iran. Scuba Feb 2013 #12
Welcome to DU, Lobo27! calimary Feb 2013 #16
By jove, I think she's got it!!! summerschild Feb 2013 #18
+1 freshwest Feb 2013 #31
Had the righties been in during the Arab spring toby jo Feb 2013 #17
NEVER forget!!!!! calimary Feb 2013 #14
just slap the mofo, joe! spanone Feb 2013 #19
This is why . . . Brigid Feb 2013 #20
I loves me some Joe Biden ProfessionalLeftist Feb 2013 #21
shushh, the Media is SLEEPING! BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2013 #22
Can I kick this twice? tecelote Feb 2013 #23
! lonestarnot Feb 2013 #24
FuckinA progressoid Feb 2013 #25
Love this guy. Glimmer of Hope Feb 2013 #26
I love you Joe!!!!!!!!!! onecent Feb 2013 #27
SEIZED! That's the perfect word for it! tosh Feb 2013 #28
Yup.....how soon people forget Historic NY Feb 2013 #29
HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Feb 2013 #32
Harry Truman said it best: "I don't give them Hell, I just tell the truth, and they think it's Hell" NeeDeep Feb 2013 #33
I'll drink to that. SunSeeker Feb 2013 #34
God I loved that debate. dorkulon Feb 2013 #35
I did also. nm rhett o rick Feb 2013 #46
This should be repeated by all Democrats to the media daily MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #43
I like this idea. However, do you think the results would be worth the effort? rhett o rick Feb 2013 #47
I would vote for Joe before Hilary! Would Hilary be the corporation shill her husband was? Dustlawyer Feb 2013 #44
No one has said it better, PatSeg Feb 2013 #45
Ryan was outed as an empty suit, and a not very bright one at that debate. Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #49
K/R moondust Feb 2013 #50
I LOVE THIS MAN! gateley Feb 2013 #52
 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
15. I only wish we'd hear such sharp-edged candor
Sat Feb 23, 2013, 06:18 PM
Feb 2013

from the Oval Office! Instead, we get the droning intonations of a community organizer.

Baitball Blogger

(46,727 posts)
3. Whoa. That reminds me of another great quote from Cold Mountain.
Sat Feb 23, 2013, 03:57 PM
Feb 2013

Ruby: [On discussing the war's origin] Every piece of this is man's bullshit. They call this war a cloud over the land. But they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say 'Shit, it's raining!'

FiggyJay

(55 posts)
4. If I remember correctly..
Sat Feb 23, 2013, 04:27 PM
Feb 2013

Biden voted for both the Iraq War and the Afghanistan War.
No, I'm not a troll, just a peacemonger.

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)
5. Yes he did.. but did he vote to not fund them? Did anyone?
Sat Feb 23, 2013, 04:44 PM
Feb 2013

But I don't care, what he says is true. Repubs didn't give a shit about debt ("deficits don't matter) until we had a Democratic president, and a black one at that. Call em out for the lying sacks of shit they are, Joe!

AndyA

(16,993 posts)
6. Congress was lied to, just like the American people
Sat Feb 23, 2013, 05:18 PM
Feb 2013

They were told of WMDs, confirmed, as were we. Condi Rice warned of the possibility of a mushroom cloud. We were told we would be in and out quickly.

Had Congress been told the truth, that there was no verifiable evidence of WMDs, no connection with OBL, no connection with 9/11, that the two wars would last about a decade or longer, and would cost well over $1,426,446,030,970 before they were through--all of which would be borrowed money added to the deficit, how many Democrats would have voted NO instead of YES?

I was against the wars from the beginning as well, but the facts weren't exactly clear, and the media kept beating the war drum, which caused a lot of people to support the war.

We'll likely never know the outcome had the lies not been so rampant, but I still blame the GOP/Bush Administration for lying the country into wars that were unnecessary. I'm not defending anyone's vote, but if everyone had been told the truth from the beginning, I doubt we would have initiated military action. We would have found OBL and dealt with him, but the argument for going into a bloodbath in Iraq and Afghanistan would have been pretty weak.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
48. so you're psychic now?
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 04:14 PM
Feb 2013

a lot of people were for it, until they learned the truth. I think we can at least accept that he admitted his mistake and is trying to fix it.

 

NoMoreWarNow

(1,259 posts)
51. he was smart enough to know better
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:24 PM
Feb 2013

please-- if we can figure it out on DU, him and others like him fucking knew WMD was a lie. To be generous, as a big-time politician, maybe he was more susceptible to the brainwashing/propaganda from the administration.

But my guess, is that he cynically knew exactly what he was doing. Biden's a good Dem but he's far from being perfect and he has long been been a military hawk.

 

chuckstevens

(1,201 posts)
9. Just Like Harry Truman
Sat Feb 23, 2013, 05:27 PM
Feb 2013

Plain, honest talk that exposes what unbelievable hypocrites that Republicans are. This is what the Democrats need to be doing EVERYDAY!

Dick Cheney famously said, "Ronald Reagan proved deficits don't matter." What Joe Biden was really saying is that to self-righteous Republicans, deficits only seem to matter when Democrats are in the White House. Sadly, I know fools who really believe the current deficits are President Obama's fault. The stupidity is mind blowing sometimes.

Lobo27

(753 posts)
11. If there isn't a Dem President in 2016.
Sat Feb 23, 2013, 05:42 PM
Feb 2013

There will be another war put on a credit card. When people like Mccain send us roaring into Iran or NKorea. sigh..............

calimary

(81,304 posts)
16. Welcome to DU, Lobo27!
Sat Feb 23, 2013, 06:24 PM
Feb 2013

Glad you're here. That's something I fear, too.

EVEN IF the republi-CON who'd win would probably talk all nice and mellow about not flexing America's muscles and how we can't afford more wars like this - you just watch.

If that horrendous turn of fate were to happen, we'd have to watch ALL THE PEOPLE THAT republi-CON WOULD BRING INTO THE WHITE HOUSE WITH HIM. Who'd be advising him? Who'd be whispering in his ear at Camp David or after hours or at some of those fancy dinners? Who'd be on his National Security team? How many chickenhawks? It'd be a frickin' PARADE of chickenhawks all hot for war to prove how macho they are (since, after all, they couldn't be bothered to go to actual war when they were younger and had the chance, and now, in their dotage, they've still got chips on their shoulders that need to be exercised).

Just plain 'n' simple, the GOP needs to be kept OUT of the White House. Just think - if john mccain lives long enough - how many times HE would be in there as a "respected" elder statesman/advisor, and HE would be the one whispering in the GOP president's ear about going to war. At their last CONvention last August, remember how many wars he ticked off - Yemen, Syria, Iran, back to Iraq, beef up Afghanistan - I counted at least FIVE.

PLEASE, NOBODY FORGET:::::::: In the PNAC manifesto, they earnestly believed and pushed their KEY idea of the U.S. being able "to fight and decisively win multiple wars on multiple fronts." That was a HUGE part of it. Their absolutely idiotic, unrealistic, and utterly imaginary but still fervent belief that the United States is this invincible all-war-all-the-time machine, or should be. That's all they wanted. That's all they STILL want. They're not finished.

Believe me. They are NOT finished, NOR do they feel defeated. They are NOT finished. They are NOT willing to admit their ideas were wrong, impractical, unrealistic, untenable, or ridiculously impossible. THEY still think we're up to it, as some sort or warrior-nation. And I guarantee you, they WILL be back. Especially if they think they still have scores to settle, like mccain does, or all those fucking assholes who think we didn't finish the job in Iraq and need to go back in there and "show 'em who's boss!"

PLEASE DON'T FORGET THIS!!!! NOT EVER!!!!!

One other thing is key here, too::::: FEW IF ANY of the PNAC signatories ever fought. They NEVER saw combat. NEVER put their lives and/or limbs on the line for their country. CERTAINLY NEVER volunteered to put themselves in harm's way for their country. NEVER even wore their country's uniform (except for rumsfeld, who served during the time BETWEEN the Korean and Vietnam aggressions - but he never saw combat, either). Whether it was dick cheney, jebbie bush, frank gaffney, bill kristol, randy scheunemann, robert kagan, elliott abrams, ken adelman, or ANY of the rest of those bastards, NONE of them were military or war veterans. NONE of them knew anything about what war actually is - beyond what they saw on TV or heard about during high-level briefings while comfortably ensconced in their expensive padded leather conference room chairs. NOT ONE. But they sure knew how to saber-rattle, and NOBODY had bigger hard-ons for war.

It's probably the single biggest reason NEVER to vote for republi-CONS for national office - OR high state office. No matter how nice they seem or how mellow and reasonable and educated and grounded-in-reality they seem to be. NEVER. One of these assholes could be president some day, or vice president. And it's a mistake we CANNOT afford to make, as a nation, ever ever EVER again!!!!

 

toby jo

(1,269 posts)
17. Had the righties been in during the Arab spring
Sat Feb 23, 2013, 06:26 PM
Feb 2013

we'd have been on them like shit on a shingle. Manic bastards.

Go Joe, can't get enough of you.

 

NeeDeep

(120 posts)
33. Harry Truman said it best: "I don't give them Hell, I just tell the truth, and they think it's Hell"
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 01:30 AM
Feb 2013

They manipulate, they don't care!

dorkulon

(5,116 posts)
35. God I loved that debate.
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 03:03 AM
Feb 2013

Joe really delivered when The President needed him. And the best part was i knew he'd crush it. I'd been saying for weeks that he'd take Wally to the woodshed and he did.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
47. I like this idea. However, do you think the results would be worth the effort?
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 02:51 PM
Feb 2013

I would love to find a way to influence the corp-media. Maybe if we organized this and had a large group inundate the corp-media with propaganda (the truth) on a continual basis we could get some traction.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
44. I would vote for Joe before Hilary! Would Hilary be the corporation shill her husband was?
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 01:58 PM
Feb 2013

Obama and Bill govern about the same. They throw us some bones with some meat on them, but give the steaks to the corporations. Joe is very direct and compassionate. He has not made himself rich while in public service, he has lived off of his salary. I would think he could help in the changes necessary to fix our democracy to represent our interests again, not just the rich and powerful!

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
49. Ryan was outed as an empty suit, and a not very bright one at that debate.
Sun Feb 24, 2013, 05:34 PM
Feb 2013

One of their best shown to be a hollow man.

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