General Discussion
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(20,277 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)from the Oval Office! Instead, we get the droning intonations of a community organizer.
kurtzapril4
(1,353 posts)You got that right!
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,727 posts)Ruby: [On discussing the war's origin] Every piece of this is man's bullshit. They call this war a cloud over the land. But they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say 'Shit, it's raining!'
FiggyJay
(55 posts)Biden voted for both the Iraq War and the Afghanistan War.
No, I'm not a troll, just a peacemonger.
mountain grammy
(26,623 posts)But I don't care, what he says is true. Repubs didn't give a shit about debt ("deficits don't matter) until we had a Democratic president, and a black one at that. Call em out for the lying sacks of shit they are, Joe!
AndyA
(16,993 posts)They were told of WMDs, confirmed, as were we. Condi Rice warned of the possibility of a mushroom cloud. We were told we would be in and out quickly.
Had Congress been told the truth, that there was no verifiable evidence of WMDs, no connection with OBL, no connection with 9/11, that the two wars would last about a decade or longer, and would cost well over $1,426,446,030,970 before they were through--all of which would be borrowed money added to the deficit, how many Democrats would have voted NO instead of YES?
I was against the wars from the beginning as well, but the facts weren't exactly clear, and the media kept beating the war drum, which caused a lot of people to support the war.
We'll likely never know the outcome had the lies not been so rampant, but I still blame the GOP/Bush Administration for lying the country into wars that were unnecessary. I'm not defending anyone's vote, but if everyone had been told the truth from the beginning, I doubt we would have initiated military action. We would have found OBL and dealt with him, but the argument for going into a bloodbath in Iraq and Afghanistan would have been pretty weak.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Just like the rest of the world.
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)don't whitewash it.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)a lot of people were for it, until they learned the truth. I think we can at least accept that he admitted his mistake and is trying to fix it.
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)please-- if we can figure it out on DU, him and others like him fucking knew WMD was a lie. To be generous, as a big-time politician, maybe he was more susceptible to the brainwashing/propaganda from the administration.
But my guess, is that he cynically knew exactly what he was doing. Biden's a good Dem but he's far from being perfect and he has long been been a military hawk.
harmonicon
(12,008 posts)Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)not in 2001 nor 2003....That's the issue.
progressivejazzredux
(44 posts)He would have made a great President in '88. Too bad it's too late now (is it?).
gateley
(62,683 posts)chuckstevens
(1,201 posts)Plain, honest talk that exposes what unbelievable hypocrites that Republicans are. This is what the Democrats need to be doing EVERYDAY!
Dick Cheney famously said, "Ronald Reagan proved deficits don't matter." What Joe Biden was really saying is that to self-righteous Republicans, deficits only seem to matter when Democrats are in the White House. Sadly, I know fools who really believe the current deficits are President Obama's fault. The stupidity is mind blowing sometimes.
Ohio Joe
(21,756 posts)Lobo27
(753 posts)There will be another war put on a credit card. When people like Mccain send us roaring into Iran or NKorea. sigh..............
Scuba
(53,475 posts)calimary
(81,304 posts)Glad you're here. That's something I fear, too.
EVEN IF the republi-CON who'd win would probably talk all nice and mellow about not flexing America's muscles and how we can't afford more wars like this - you just watch.
If that horrendous turn of fate were to happen, we'd have to watch ALL THE PEOPLE THAT republi-CON WOULD BRING INTO THE WHITE HOUSE WITH HIM. Who'd be advising him? Who'd be whispering in his ear at Camp David or after hours or at some of those fancy dinners? Who'd be on his National Security team? How many chickenhawks? It'd be a frickin' PARADE of chickenhawks all hot for war to prove how macho they are (since, after all, they couldn't be bothered to go to actual war when they were younger and had the chance, and now, in their dotage, they've still got chips on their shoulders that need to be exercised).
Just plain 'n' simple, the GOP needs to be kept OUT of the White House. Just think - if john mccain lives long enough - how many times HE would be in there as a "respected" elder statesman/advisor, and HE would be the one whispering in the GOP president's ear about going to war. At their last CONvention last August, remember how many wars he ticked off - Yemen, Syria, Iran, back to Iraq, beef up Afghanistan - I counted at least FIVE.
PLEASE, NOBODY FORGET:::::::: In the PNAC manifesto, they earnestly believed and pushed their KEY idea of the U.S. being able "to fight and decisively win multiple wars on multiple fronts." That was a HUGE part of it. Their absolutely idiotic, unrealistic, and utterly imaginary but still fervent belief that the United States is this invincible all-war-all-the-time machine, or should be. That's all they wanted. That's all they STILL want. They're not finished.
Believe me. They are NOT finished, NOR do they feel defeated. They are NOT finished. They are NOT willing to admit their ideas were wrong, impractical, unrealistic, untenable, or ridiculously impossible. THEY still think we're up to it, as some sort or warrior-nation. And I guarantee you, they WILL be back. Especially if they think they still have scores to settle, like mccain does, or all those fucking assholes who think we didn't finish the job in Iraq and need to go back in there and "show 'em who's boss!"
PLEASE DON'T FORGET THIS!!!! NOT EVER!!!!!
One other thing is key here, too::::: FEW IF ANY of the PNAC signatories ever fought. They NEVER saw combat. NEVER put their lives and/or limbs on the line for their country. CERTAINLY NEVER volunteered to put themselves in harm's way for their country. NEVER even wore their country's uniform (except for rumsfeld, who served during the time BETWEEN the Korean and Vietnam aggressions - but he never saw combat, either). Whether it was dick cheney, jebbie bush, frank gaffney, bill kristol, randy scheunemann, robert kagan, elliott abrams, ken adelman, or ANY of the rest of those bastards, NONE of them were military or war veterans. NONE of them knew anything about what war actually is - beyond what they saw on TV or heard about during high-level briefings while comfortably ensconced in their expensive padded leather conference room chairs. NOT ONE. But they sure knew how to saber-rattle, and NOBODY had bigger hard-ons for war.
It's probably the single biggest reason NEVER to vote for republi-CONS for national office - OR high state office. No matter how nice they seem or how mellow and reasonable and educated and grounded-in-reality they seem to be. NEVER. One of these assholes could be president some day, or vice president. And it's a mistake we CANNOT afford to make, as a nation, ever ever EVER again!!!!
summerschild
(725 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)toby jo
(1,269 posts)we'd have been on them like shit on a shingle. Manic bastards.
Go Joe, can't get enough of you.
calimary
(81,304 posts)Way to go, Joe! You ROCK, Mr. Vice President!
spanone
(135,843 posts)Brigid
(17,621 posts)We love Joe.
ProfessionalLeftist
(4,982 posts)The guy doesn't mess around!
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Guess it's up to us to keep ringing the alarm.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)Once for what Joe said. Once for Joe.
progressoid
(49,991 posts)Glimmer of Hope
(5,823 posts)onecent
(6,096 posts)tosh
(4,423 posts)Go JOE!!!
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)NeeDeep
(120 posts)They manipulate, they don't care!
SunSeeker
(51,564 posts)dorkulon
(5,116 posts)Joe really delivered when The President needed him. And the best part was i knew he'd crush it. I'd been saying for weeks that he'd take Wally to the woodshed and he did.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Great stuff.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I would love to find a way to influence the corp-media. Maybe if we organized this and had a large group inundate the corp-media with propaganda (the truth) on a continual basis we could get some traction.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)Obama and Bill govern about the same. They throw us some bones with some meat on them, but give the steaks to the corporations. Joe is very direct and compassionate. He has not made himself rich while in public service, he has lived off of his salary. I would think he could help in the changes necessary to fix our democracy to represent our interests again, not just the rich and powerful!
PatSeg
(47,491 posts)clearer, or more succinctly.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)One of their best shown to be a hollow man.