General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums'I don't want to go to Disney World anymore': Parents' fury as TSA agents detain their crying
wheelchair-bound daughter, THREE, and confiscate her stuffed animal
The parents of a toddler with spinal bifida are outraged after TSA officials forced their daughter to undergo a series of additional security measures ahead of their flight to Disney World.
Nathan and Annie Forck were flying out of their home state of Missouri on a February 8 flight bound for Orlando, Florida with their wheelchair-bound daughter Lucy and their two other children.
Mrs Forck took a six-minute video detailing their toddlers cries as she said through tears that she didnt want to go to Disney World anymore, and is claiming the TSA discriminates against people who use mobility devices.
As Fox News Radio reports, the Forcks were attempting to fly to Orlando to enjoy a family vacation at Disney World and were flying out of Lambert-St Louis International Airport.
Though they got through the TSA security checkpoint without incident, a TSA agent pulled the family aside to screen Lucys wheelchair further for a pat down and swabbing her mobility device.
Mrs Forck pulled out her smart phone and began recording the whole event, against the TSA agents request.
Its illegal to do that, the female agent is heard saying.
Mrs Forcks responds: You cant touch my daughter unless I can record it, and later adds: The problem is, I dont allow anyone to touch my little daughter.
Throughout the argument between the mother and the TSA agent, Lucy can be heard crying, apparently confused at what exactly was going on.
Her stuffed animal, Lamby, had been scanned via X-ray and had not been returned to her.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281769/Parents-fury-TSA-detains-wheelchair-bound-daughter-3-theyre-trying-fly-Disney-World-family-vacation.html#ixzz2LYabeS2D
newfie11
(8,159 posts)Unbelievable that this can happen in this so called free country.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)I assume you mean
This IS going TOO far.
In which case I would agree.
siligut
(12,272 posts)And the stories just continue to mount up.
Sending buxom females through the scanners twice
Repeatedly searching wheelchairs bound patrons to the point of idiocy
Roughly fondled junk
This is from 2010 and nothing has changed, though I understand they have stopped using the scanners?
http://rawjustice.com/2010/11/22/10-of-the-most-outrageous-tsa-horror-stories/
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)graham4anything
(11,464 posts)actually, wouldn't the reverse be true?
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)Earth_First
(14,910 posts)I just KNEW you'd chime in on this one!
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)what about the other billion?
Wish I had a good percentage like they do.
After all, what if there was a gun hidden or box cutter hidden and something happened?
One can't play favorites
My mom has 2 artificial hips and she has to go through a separate search everytime she goes.
And she don't mind.
And she is someone who was forced by the Nazi's to leave her homewhen she was a little girl.
Maybe if they had better check points prior to 9-11, the 19 might have been detected.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)I've got your number, pal.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)The WTC fell. 3000 people died. I come from NYC. The economy of the world stopped because OBL and his henchmen did what they did.
As Benjamin Franklin said "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
He was talking about taking a few minutes more going through an airport with the statement.
And yes, I am for drones, as they according to Richard Clarke"Are the most humane form of warfare".
If only a drone was around to drop on Hitler, 2 weeks prior to his starting his diabolical plot to kill 20 million people. Even if a few collateral had been killed along with Hitler, 20 million would have been saved.
Whereas 20 million were killed. (including warmonger General Eisenhower taking out the POWs after the end of the war).
And Franklin also said "this is theirs if they can keep it", and he meant doing anything needed to prevent terrorists from doing what they did on 9-11.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)wow
Bake
(21,977 posts)There were no airports in Franklin's day. 9/11 was 200 years + in the future.
Don't you presume to konw what Franklin meant. You obviously don't know much about history, or democracy, or Franklin in particular.
Bake
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)In many posts you have said, some in response to my anti-NRA posts, that you support your meaning of the 2nd amendment interpretation
I am sure Benny didn't anticipate some extremist shooting up a supermarket, movie theatre
or school.
You have your interpretation of the 2nd, I will interpret Ben Franklin any which way I choose.
I also know exactly what Thomas Jefferson meant when he said all MEN are created equal.
Yet forgot 14% of the Population in the United States that is black, and 52% of the people who are women.
And he said what he did ON PURPOSE.
So I do indeed presume to know that Ben Franklin said anything goes when there is a war on terrorism going on.
Going to the airport is a luxury, and people know the rules.
No one forces them to go.
I myself have driven many times from NY to Florida.
It is not much further to go from Missouri to Florida
ACTUALLY, I just looked it up
It is 850 miles.
When I drive it is 1100 miles.
So it is easy enough not to go to the airport if one chooses they don't wish to go through the checkpoint.
Me, I am happy that what happened on 9-11 won't happen again.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)And if you drive from NY to FL you're in the Constitution Free Zone. Good luck with that.
Drale
(7,932 posts)"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both" and this is trading our freedom for temporary security on an airplane.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Because on 9-11,
19 people under the orders of OBL permanently damaged the USA by having 4 planes hijacked, two of which went into the WTC, one went into the Pentagon, and most likely the 4th was going to, had it been on time, directly hit the Capitol building and asssassinate every single
senator and congressperson in the building at the time.
We now have permanent security, not temporary one.
Freedom was taken away 9-11.
or as Kris Kristofferson wrote "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose".
When one is dead, they are free.
Until then, we have everything to lose and no freedom if the terrorists take it away.
Not to mention the consittution in wartime gives a president any and all right to do whatever.
Ask Lincoln.
And almost everybody thinks Lincoln is the #1 president of all time.
Drale
(7,932 posts)is a terrorist. Yeap I'd rather die in a terrorist attack than have to deal with the intrusive, sexually molesting and uncaring TSA.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Very easy for someone to put bend over and put something on the bottom of the wheelchair
and nobody would notice.
If one let's their guard down once, that is when disaster happens.
And you use some adjectives in your answer, none of which apply to this.
I find insulting the union workers who work 9 to 5 doing a thankless job and a boring job
not nice.
Maybe there is a rotten apple in the bunch, but then any profession has a bad apple.
99% of the people are hard working. 1% or less rotten apples, shouldn't smear the 99%.
(especially as they are union workers.)
Drale
(7,932 posts)Ever heard of One person can ruin it for everyone? That is true in every sense and it is doubly true people those people have the power to have you arrested for no reason at all or to sexually assault you because they "suspect" you might be carrying something. With great power comes great responsibility and the TSA has shown they do not have the responsibility to have the power.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)...I've seen children cry a few times in my life. (Like 50,976,436 times).
And they've cried over the simplest %$%^# things you've ever heard of...like not getting a certain bag of cookies at the store.
This poor mistreated Lamb had to be searched and she cried for like OMG...9-10 minutes !!
Oh...the inhumanity...you know, just screw the airport security...let people ride wheel-chairs into airports any time they want and when the fucking plane explodes @ 37,000 ft...we, at least, can say "It's a nasty thing but we have to think of the children.
Give-Me-A-Break
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)I'm sitting here wondering what it could possibly be like to live in such fear- that one would think a terrorist would strap a bomb to their wheelchair bound toddler and blow up a plane. Or is it fear that a 3 yr old would hijack the plane and fly it into a building that make people willing to defend the TSA's despicable actions?
Union Label
(545 posts)There are detectors that are so sensitive they don't need to contact anything, I did a fast search and came up with this. http://gs.flir.com/detection/explosives/fido
So I'm sure TSA can get anything they need to be non invasive.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I don't even understand why we do this crap if someone is in the US going to a different location in the US. It makes no damn sense to me. International flights I could see, but frisking a 3 year old that is in a wheelchair?
At some point, it's time to say enough is enough.
Exactly how many terrorists have these TSA procedures caught? None.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)And that's the way it is, 2013, USA.
who knows without security, how many would have tried.
If it saved ONE death, it is worth it. If it saved one million deaths, it is worth it.
We know certain facts- bombs kill. Guns kill. Bullets kill.
We know 3000 people died on 9-11. FACT.
We know 20 million died in WW2. FACT.
We know 0 people have died from explosions in airplanes in the USA since 9-11. FACT.
Sounds to me like it's working.
Drale
(7,932 posts)actually means when all you have left is your freedom you have the responsibility and the ability to put everything aside and fight tooth and nail and die if need be to protect the last thing you have, your freedom. Way to twist song lyrics to try and prove your point.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)and here are Kristofferson's own words
Freedom actually means NOTHING.
the important 2 paragraphs-
http://performingsongwriter.com/kris-kristofferson-bobby-mcgee/
The title came from [producer and Monument Records founder] Fred Foster. He called one night and said, Ive got a song title for you. Its Me and Bobby McKee. I thought he said McGee. Bobby McKee was the secretary of Boudleaux Bryant, who was in the same building with Fred. Then Fred says, The hook is that Bobby McKee is a she. How does that grab you? (Laughs) I said, Uh, Ill try to write it, but Ive never written a song on assignment. So it took me a while to think about
SNIP
For some reason, I thought of La Strada, this Fellini film, and a scene where Anthony Quinn is going around on this motorcycle and Giulietta Masina is the feeble-minded girl with him, playing the trombone. He got to the point where he couldnt put up with her anymore and left her by the side of the road while she was sleeping. Later in the film, he sees this woman hanging out the wash and singing the melody that the girl used to play on the trombone. He asks, Where did you hear that song? And she tells him it was this little girl who had showed up in town and nobody knew where she was from, and later she died. That night, Quinn goes to a bar and gets in a fight. Hes drunk and ends up howling at the stars on the beach. To me, that was the feeling at the end of Bobby McGee. The two-edged sword that freedom is. He was free when he left the girl, but it destroyed him. Thats where the line Freedoms just another name for nothing left to lose came from.
markpkessinger
(8,401 posts)graham4anything
(11,464 posts)How does one know how many 1000s of terrorists were stopped who knew the security was so good, that it would be impossible to get their diabolical plot working?
No terrorist can do what happened on 9-11 again, THANKS to the new security in place.
They did it on 9-11, because no one was prepared.
Hence, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".
Much like Timid McCoward in Oklahoma City and the 1st WTC attempt led to it being impossible in sophisticated cities to drive underneath a mega building with no security checkpoints.
And those pretty little plants outside buildings in concrete containers block cars from jumping a curb in a big city and going through the doors.
So, how can one name something that the TSA stopped by preventing it from happening in the first place.
It is a red herring faux question. IMHO
sarisataka
(18,678 posts)in gun debates on how many crimes were stopped by guns? It seems the same would apply.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)if you are talking about a private person well, that would need some qualifiers to make this the statement in synch with the TSA and other forms of national security.
Because if someone is in a private home and has a gun, no one would know the gun was there
UNLESS there was a neon sticker on the outside saying so.
If that is the case, then it is the NEON STICKER not the gun itself.
And anyone can get a NEON STICKER.
Funny thing is, on prior arguments in the gungeon (where all my posts were anti-NRA, anti-gun,
none of the people there want to advertise they have a gun
which I never understood (until I realized that wasn't why they wanted a gun).
So it doesn't apply, sorry that won't work.
However, indeed, police do stop criminals, and terrorists have been stopped by both security and by the knowledge of security.
It is why now, most international terroristic events happen elsewhere and not in the USA.
BUT almost all mass shootings are by terrorists HERE in the USA who are Americans.
So it depends which angle you are posing here.
sarisataka
(18,678 posts)those who promote open carry say that it does prevent crime. The criminal can see the gun and so will choose to go elsewhere.
It is in the same vein to say a negative cannot be proven therefore the statements by the OC proponents are true; they do stop crime, just cannot prove it.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)after seeing the gun
Therefore, a question needs to be asked-
how many people have had a heart attack seeing someone that wasn't law enforcement approach them with a gun in full view.
I know my heart would race. Especially if the person looks like those that look like 99% of the mass shooters in America.
AND a person with an open carry would be a later easy target for a terrorist to steal that gun by coming up behind him and neutralizing him (or her) and stealing the gun.
And if someone with an open gun goes into an airport-well, they better ahead of time make sure security knows it is legal.
Normally private people with guns do not save anything.
Legal guns do more harm than good 99% of the time.
And having legal guns in a movie theatre does not stop someone from killing in a theatre.
Only thing that would stop it would be NO legal or illegal guns.
Again, to answer the reverse question is not the same as authority.
Because with authority you have order and laws.
With open carry, one doesn't know if one is legal or illegal, lawabiding or criminal, and there is no time to make a decision.
sarisataka
(18,678 posts)from seeing a person carrying a gun is the same as is the same as the number of terrorists who knock a person over their head and take their gun; it is hovering around zero.
I can agree that bring a gun openly into an airport is legal but unwise.
Overall I have no issues with authority- a Libertarian called me a nazi- as long as the authority is used for the benefit of the People, not against the people. {my capitalization is not a mistake} We cannot have perfect liberty and I do not believe that is what B. Franklin meant; it is when we give up so much liberty that we are no longer free, and do not oppose it nor even recognize it, that we become despicable and deserve neither. I think we are much closer to that line than many think.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)That's right. A fucking Terrorist.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)The terrorists have achieved their goal of making it more expensive, more inconvenient, more annoying and more difficult to travel.
We now have a "Constitution Free Zone (TM)" within one hundred miles of our borders. Air, land and sea. Anyone, and that means YOU, can be stopped anytime, for no reason by the CBP and/or the TSA (who now want to get their grubby little blue gloves all over your carry-on TRAIN and BUS baggage and on commuter rail) "out of an abundance of caution". No warrant, no nothing - "Pull over and we're going to search your car, baggage, person." And they don't even have to give a reason.
The TSA hasn't stopped "terrorists on aircraft", reinforced, locked cockpit doors and heightened passenger awareness have. The TSA clerks (they're not "officers" BTW despite their self styled titles) confiscate snow globes, breast milk and yogurt and make believe that they are a first line defense. It's security theatre and a money eating boon doggle and is getting Americans used to the security/surveillance state.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)Warpy
(111,282 posts)"Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security."
These TSA agents shelved their common sense in favor of an arbitrary protocol. They were in the wrong.
I'm sick of these people and I'm sick of the scared little rabbits who support them no matter what kind of outrages they perpetrate on people in no position to fight back.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Having some extremist shoot up a movie theatre, or supermarket or hijack airplanes
means MY liberty and freedom and my right to peaceful assembly is forever gone.
Having a way to allow my liberty and freedom is what Franklin meant.
Of course,this is America, and this is a free country, and this political discussion board is
free and google searched worldwide, and we can all disagree, as we are free.
So one can't just choose to parse 1/2 a Franklin quote, without applying all of them as I have done.
A few second delay at the airport is a small price to pay and everyone going on a plane knows it, so if one doesn't want to, there is no constitutional right to go on a plane at all.
Personally, I wish we had the great security Mossad has at the Israeli airport. Generally considered the best in the world now. 9-11 would never have happened the way it did
on El-Al.
Warpy
(111,282 posts)I'm more deeply frightened by the people who would throw away all the liberty that made this country such a great place to live because they are afraid of bogeymen.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
So it can pretty safely be assumed that Franklin would have despised you.
raging_moderate
(147 posts)Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Nice try.
ET Awful
(24,753 posts)regarding terrorism or anything of the sort.
What he said was in response to a query: He was asked ""Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" He replied "A republic, if you can keep it.
What he meant was not "do whatever it takes to prevent terrorists from attacking". In fact, I'd wager that terrorism wasn't even part of this thought process.
What he was referring to was allowing the republic to regress and for the freedoms that republic protected to vanish.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)...deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Arkana
(24,347 posts)deserver neither liberty nor safety.
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)..."A pound of prevention is worth an ounce of cure". That's what this was.
Bay Boy
(1,689 posts)marked as a Democrat that is.
Drone Technology- BHO
red light cameras- most any large city and likely to have a Dem mayor
CCTV- I assume is surveillance cameras; see above
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)There is no state power that g4a opposes.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)Now get ready for the two minutes of hate.
Bake
(21,977 posts)Really? Good for her.
I'm glad "she don't mind."
The rest of us do.
Bake
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)You speak ZERO for me. So you can't say the rest of us do.
And I count about 1/2 the posts on this thread do not agree with the premise of the thread.
Again, ask the billion or more who have gone through and not complained or filmed the event.
Seems none of them had any problem with it.
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)breast. I figured the tsa could due anything they wanted after that.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Not several thousand. I've got a piece of advice for you, it helps to think just a little bit before posting. That way, your words won't seem so incredibly asinine.
Logical
(22,457 posts)musette_sf
(10,202 posts)would have, if they had been followed, detected every one of them.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)slack, he knows more about the conspiracy than anyone.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)He's hated Ralph Nader forever....well, at lesst since Nader sunk The Maine and kidnapped the Lindbergh baby.
sarisataka
(18,678 posts)if it is done by the government. Lives were undoubtedly saved by taking that little girls toy away.
We should ban cameras; they inhibit the Noble's actions to protect us.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Next, you were going to say that the young woman deserved to be raped because she was "leading the guy on".
Authoritarian trash like you make me sick!
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Or was it one of your friends?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I have no doubt you feel compelled to attribute an ill-defined agenda to the mother to better validate your own opinions...
leveymg
(36,418 posts)I'd say the parents overreaction and hysterical tone is really the source of the child's upset.
I know that people think that airport screening has gone too far, but I have no problem with large objects like wheelchairs being quickly checked for traces of explosive chemicals.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)The article clearly states that the toy "Lamby" had not been returned AFTER being screened and the child got upset.
The entire situation may have been avoided if the TSA agents acted in a more compassionate, considerate manner instead of the authoritarian power trip that many of these thugs seem to have.
I have absolutely no understanding how this is in any way shape or form a set up or the parent's fault.
Hestia
(3,818 posts)In what universe?
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)--3 year olds in wheelchairs, I'd instantly use one to get my bomb on board. The three-year old is, after all, working for a higher cause in this--or so any suicide bomber would think. And remember that we had bombers try to put bombs in shoes and underwear before this. Why not a little girl's wheelchair?
Look, the TSA agents should be more compassionate, sensitive and polite to such situations. That we can agree on totally. But we DO live in a world where fanatics train little kids to fight in wars--hell to carry signs and protest gays at funerals come to that. Where little kids wired with explosives have been sent out to blow up soldiers. A terrorist is in a war, and anyone and anything can be used against the enemy--the end justifies the means.
Putting it another way, if I can think of it, so can they--and they certainly have and they certainly will. So while we, the TSA agents, etc. might well look at this particular little girl and her family and think "highly unlikely," is it worth taking a chance? That this could have been handed better we can agree on--there really is no reason to have upset the family or reduced the kid to tears. There are always ways to make a delay or requirement easier, less unpleasant.
But would you want to be the TSA agent who said, "I let that little girl in the wheelchair go unchecked..." after the bomb explodes on a plane and hundreds die? Including the little girl in the wheelchair? I know, I know, it all seems so unlikely, so over-the-top for a slim chance. But TSA can't take even that slim chance. They really don't dare given the consequences if they're wrong.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...because 3 year old's wheelchairs aren't checked.
Duh.
Drug smugglers use baby diapers - on real live babies.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Marblehead
(1,268 posts)have they caught?
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Drale
(7,932 posts)were found on a person and if they were found on a person, they were found by the scanner and molesting everyone is not required. The scanners do a pretty damn good job at finding stuff in peoples bags and if they have and and want to go through my bag they can but if anything is missing theres going to be hell to pay. I just don't want to be sexually assaulted by an untrained minimum wage worker looking to assert the little bit of authority they have in their lives.
Bay Boy
(1,689 posts)Is that what you were trying to say?
Drale
(7,932 posts)especially in a hard and stressful job, the more they will care about the job and the better they will do that job. A great many of the TSA agents seemed to have once worked at the DMV and don't seem to really care about what they are doing.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)good one!
You do know that we the people own the government, don't you? If government employees are underpaid, who is responsible?
Logical
(22,457 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to get up and walk through a scanner. I've seen it several times and you can often see the anguish in their eyes. Their job requires them to ask the near-crippled person to hobble through a security gate, and nobody but a real monster would enjoy that kind of thing.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Sometimes, the TSA people have been really nice... they've offered her two wooden canes to make the trip through the scanner, and taken the time to be sure she's steady on the canes. Other times, there was nothing: she was expected to walk through without any assistance/support and hurry it up, lady.
She's decided not to fly anymore.
RedSpartan
(1,693 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Earth_First
(14,910 posts)How is this STILL an issue.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)And using the daughter to do it.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)I guess it worked.
treestar
(82,383 posts)And we all have a chance at our 15 minutes.
There are plenty of posters like yourself perfectly willing to expect trouble and let expectation lead so it becomes a reality.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)"There are plenty of posters like yourself..."
You don't really know anything about me, do you?
The TSA has apologized for the incident.
treestar
(82,383 posts)about how awful it is that the TSA does anything to make sure flights are safe. They are called totalitarian jackboots for doing that job. Some rush to condemn them entirely for every bad incident. Their apologizing doesn't mean they did anything wrong or that they are jackbooted thugs trying to harm disabled little girls. It just means somebody created another incident to complain about. Did they really "touch" this "little girl?" as they are accused of in this instance?
obamanut2012
(26,083 posts)And not to be harassed like they are the Wheelchair Bomber. Oh, wait, there's never been one of those.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Letting the guard down will make this happen.
Very easy for someone in a place like an airport to put something on the bottom of the chair
(much like people can put something without the owner knowing, in a suitcase, but heavy security screens all luggage now).
An ounce of prevention has probably saved millions of lives.
Because of course, what is never known are all those who decided what they wanted to do can't happen because of security, so it never happens and of course, that isn't tracked as nothing happened.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)is a part of the problem, not the solution.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)davidn3600
(6,342 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)What is it with police-state fanbois here?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)What is it with the obvious non-parents here?
When my kids were three, and something upset them and made them cry - which is hardly rare in all kinds of situations with three year olds - I don't think I ever reacted by reaching for a camera.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Please don't act as though your parenthood status automatically make you the authority on this question.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)What specifically leads you to that conclusion?
treestar
(82,383 posts)Mrs Forcks responds: You cant touch my daughter unless I can record it, and later adds: The problem is, I dont allow anyone to touch my little daughter.
Throughout the argument between the mother and the TSA agent, Lucy can be heard crying, apparently confused at what exactly was going on.
Why didn't she comfort the child instead of letting her cry on for the whole time? And was the agent was touching the child? The agent is being accused of touching the child when we don't know if the agent even made any move to do that or tried to. The way she uses the word "little" daughter. Like she's trying to emphasize that to make sure her argument has the best emotional impact. She's busy arguing with the silly agent rather than comforting the child. Busy taking video rather than telling the child it is OK. So as to have minutes of the poor child crying.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)They were already through security when the mother launched her wily plot, causing the TSA to change their minds and search the girl and her wheelchair again. Mom's plan was so damned diabolical and sneaky that the TSA has now apologized to the family. Thanks for getting to the bottom of this, Dr. Einstein. And remember, the victim is almost always wrong.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)Too many reports I am afraid of TSA agents behaving badly.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)ST. LOUIS -- The Transportation Security Administration is apologizing after agents at Lambert Airport in St. Louis sought to screen a 3-year-old girl in a wheelchair.
The mother of the child shot video that caused a stir in social media after it was posted online.
The incident happened Feb. 8. The girl and her family were about to fly to Disney World in Orlando, Fla. A TSA agent asked to pat down the 3-year-old and screen her wheelchair. The agent initially told the girls mother, Annie Schulte, it was illegal to tape the activity.
On the video, the little girl, Lucy, who has spina bifida, is seen crying.
http://www.kmov.com/news/local/TSA-apologies-for-screening-3-year-old-in-wheelchair-at-Lambert-192309991.html
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Start at the top.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)for that kind of excursion? I mean is she really going to have memories or even know what she's experiencing? I sort of noticed that my friends never did the Disneyland trip before the age of five unless they were forced to lug a toddler or baby around while giving an older child their Disneyland trip. I personally wouldn't want to have a three year old on a plane, especially one with special needs, unless it was absolutely necessary like going to the funeral of a grandparent or something like that.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)Partly from an offer to pay part of the trip by my mother in law. We all had a great time but it was exhausting lugging around the stroller on the plane and the luggage from the plane to the hotel. My kids did very good on the plane, better then me (I have flown twice round trip and hated both times, I have extreme fear of heights/flying). They colored, played with some small toys I bought them and drank juice during taking off and landing. They were kind of in awe of the whole thing. We drove two years ago and I enjoyed that better despite driving from Connecticut all the way to Florida. It was an adventure.
Mr.Bill
(24,304 posts)that Mickey Mouse is a seven-foot tall rat.
ellie
(6,929 posts)and my front was enthusiastically patted down by a female TSA agent. I guess she didn't think my boobs could be that big, but they are. Now she knows they are.
Bay Boy
(1,689 posts)Hmmm... maybe I would make a good TSA screener.
I'll make you a deal. If you ever find yourself working for the TSA and I am in Boston, I will come through your line.
Except I'll probably have to do that in my next life.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)she was perfectly polite and patient with the snotty woman, who to my eyes, after watching the whole vid, had an agenda. Furthermore, "Lamby" was in the child's lap at throughout most of the vid and a the end of it.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)Posters blaming the victim, the victim's family, embracing authoritarianism, and so many willing to give up their civil liberties for the illusion of safety.
A sad sign of how this country, and DU has declined. I remember when TSA first started exhibiting their jack booted approach to security, and almost to the last person, people here on DU decried their actions. Now we have a large number of people embracing them. My, my, how things have changed around here.
cali
(114,904 posts)I'm completely against the heavy handed TSA crap, but there's something here that just doesn't smell right. Call it my sense that these are entitled white people acting imperious with a low paying black working person.
and it's a crock of dog shit, that things have changed around here. They really haven't. It's the same as its ever been.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)MadHound
(34,179 posts)I understand your distrust over the Daiy Mail, it's a rag. But this story is all over the media, and they are pretty much all saying the same thing.
Furthermore, I understand the mother's concern, TSA agents have been busted multiple times for groping adults and children, and frankly I wouldn't let anybody I didn't know touch my kid without a video record either.
I don't know what you're smelling, but the only thing that I smell is, once again, the authoritarian hand of the TSA.
Oh, and the TSA pretty much admitted they did wrong when they apologized to the family(see the post upthread).
Yes, things have changed around here. Go dig around in the archives, compare this thread with the early threads concerning TSA thuggery. You'll see a lot has changed.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)who believe harrassing a little girl in a wheelchair is somehow making them safe from TERRA! absolutely disgusting.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)I feel so much safer now!
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)NOTHING! This is another reason we need to investigate 9/11 AGAIN! If planes can be taken over with box cutters, then 10 martial arts terrorist could do more harm than any box cutter ever could. This is all a bunch of shit.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Either you want invasive screening or you don't.
If you do, then this is what you are going to get. They cannot issue a free pass to anyone. Children and the elderly and the handicapped are going to be targetted for additional screening. The alternative is a some form of non-invasive screening where officers watch from a distance and look for signs of stress and what not -- and in an airport that's a tough task. If you go that alternate route it is possible that there will be more terrorist attacks.
Possible.
We have to decide as a nation what we want. We have to decide if we want more government "protecting" us or less. We have to decide if we want airport and bus station and city street pat downs; we have to decide if we want drones sitting over our homes and peeking in our windows; we have to decide if we want the government reading our emails and forum posts and databasing every website and image we view. And it wont stop there. It never stops there.
We have to decide if we are a nation of fucking cowards or a nation that accepts the occassional tragedy or assault as one of the prices we pay for freedom. Until then this is all just faux-outrage and hypocrisy. You're angry because the meanies at the TSA did the job you demanded that they do, and it's as silly as weeping over the lawn clippings after the gardener finishes mowing the grass. So either cowboy the hell up and demand and end to ALL of it, or accept that this is just one more thing you will tolerate in the name of "safety."
Blunt, but there it is.
sarisataka
(18,678 posts)freedom.
Throw out the Patriot Act. I would rather live in a dangerous free country than a safe place where my every action, decision and thought is monitored or chosen for me.
To some that may mean I am not a liberal but whatever it is, that is what I am.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)The government has MORE than enough to do inspecting meat and oil rigs. Let them do that and leave off inspecting me.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)I'm glad they didn't let this "little girl" with her shenanigans through security without a thorough check. It's high time three year olds learned that if you insist on bring your wheelchair to the airport, you should expect it to be thoroughly checked for the safety of the other passengers. Also, you'll get "Lamby" back when TSA is good and done with it. Until then just shut up and cooperate.
I don't know how these people sleep at night knowing they are causing so much trouble for our air passengers' first line of defense, the TSA.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)I thought it was a typical TSA defender post.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)the tag shouldn't be necessary.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)Of course, further down thread we have a staunch defender of anything TSA holding forth. And possibly another waiting in the wings.
I'm just not getting people who are willing to put up with this bullshit to travel. And who say "It's just fine as long as it keeps us safe".
The terrorist's won with the passage of the "Patriot (sic) Act".
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)The screening process for a passenger who uses a wheelchair or scooter is determined by a passengers ability to stand and walk. A passenger can be screened without standing, walking, or being required to transfer out of a wheelchair or scooter; however, a passenger should inform a security officer of his or her ability before the screening begins.
Passengers who can neither stand nor walk will be screened by a thorough patdown while they remain seated.
Passengers who can stand but cannot walk will be asked to stand near their wheelchair or scooter and will be screened using a thorough patdown.
Passengers in wheelchairs or scooters who can walk may be able to be screened using a metal detector or imaging technology.
A patdown procedure is used to resolve any alarms of a metal detector or anomalies identified by imaging technology.
Regardless of how the passenger is screened, the passengers wheelchair or scooter will be inspected, including the seat cushions and any non-removable pouches or fanny packs. It will also be tested for traces of explosives, and any removable pouches will be required to undergo X-ray screening.
http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/wheelchairs-and-scooters
The above is TSA's standard policy. People should inform themselves of these policies so that they aren't surprised at the airport or can choose to take alternative transportation.
Nine
(1,741 posts)Every time there's a story like this, people basically say that young children can't pose any threat, little old ladies can't pose any threat, disabled people can't pose any threat. It's really a form of profiling: "Do I look like a terrorist to you?" Well, children and little old ladies and people in wheelchairs can be used in such a manner and have been the world over. If we're going to create excepted classes when it comes to security, we might as well do away with it altogether. Are airport security measures too intrusive? Are they effective? These are important questions but not really the point here.
Children cry about lots of things. Good parents make experiences (like a trip to the doctor or dentist, for example) less scary by explaining things ahead of time, by showing their child a relaxed demeanor, by distracting the child when necessary, etc. This child was upset in large part because of the behavior of the parents.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)but first we have to go through security. You will be separated from mommy and daddy, people in uniform will touch your private parts, they will go through your stuff and may even keep some of your toys. But don't worry, sweetie, it is for your own safety.
I'm glad I'm old and will never have to have that conversation.
Nine
(1,741 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Nine
(1,741 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Nine
(1,741 posts)You don't like the TSA or the security measures they have in place, fine. But airport screeners are just low-wage, low-power working stiffs trying to eke out a living and get through their workdays. They didn't single out this child because they get their jollies targeting disabled kids. They did it because somewhere in their employee handbooks is a regulation telling them to check wheelchairs for explosives or whatever. If you don't like TSA policy, work to get it changed through political channels. Don't harass people who are on their feet all day dealing with disgruntled travelers. The employee was mistaken when she told the mother that it was illegal to film, but other than that she was just trying to do her job. A week ago DUers were all singing the praises of restaurant servers and bragging about the huge tips they all leave, and here you have employees doing work that is just as shitty, if not more so, than food service, and all the good progressives on here are calling them thugs and grope-happy perverts. The girl in this story did not even receive a pat-down, so what was the big trauma we're all supposed to be angry about?
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Sorry, I'm not going to make it easy for them.
If they had a moral bone in them, they'd quit and find work that didn't involve humiliating people to enforce a police state.
I don't give a fuck about them. My empathy for TSA screeners is at zero.
Nine
(1,741 posts)Tell me, do you fly? If everyone who had a problem with TSA would simply boycott air travel as much as possible, the policies you object to so much would have a good chance of ending. People don't want to give up air travel because it's too much of an inconvenience. People don't want to get to their vacation destinations by bus or to vacation only in nearby locales. People who travel on a business are not about to put their own livelihoods at risk by refusing to fly. But you want the people at the bottom of the economic ladder to do the noble thing and turn down gainful employment? My how liberal of you.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Well said.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Putting down 100% of the TSA is saying 100% of what the TSA does is bad.
1% of the TSA might not be good, which means 1% of what the TSA does is bad.
The TSA are union people.
Wanting to get rid of the TSA to me is union busting.
I would trust the TSA with my life 100% even if 1% is bad.
And 5 out of billion complaints is a helleva good percentage for anything.
So mass hating 99% of something is ridiculous.
I would trust the NRA ZERO percent with my life, nor any PRIVATE citizen not working on duty
at the time who had a gun and a bullet.(ESPECIALLY if they are pro-NRA).
(If they are on duty as a federal, state, local police, I would trust them.)
Simple FACT.
IMHO.
I am not a fan of libertarians.
randome
(34,845 posts)derby378
(30,252 posts)Can I possibly make it any plainer than that? Get rid of them. They only exist to keep us afraid. And they're hurting airline traffic.
markpkessinger
(8,401 posts). . . addressing the question of whether or not these intrusive TSA procedures were, in fact, keeping anybody "safe."
[font size=5]My response to Ruth Marcus[/font]
In her Washington Post column titled, "Don't touch my junk? Grow up, America" (Nov. 24, 2010), Ruth Marcus scolds:
The uproar over the new procedures is overblown and immature. The marginal invasion of privacy is small relative to the potential benefit of averting a terrorist attack.
I think what constitutes "immaturity" is for the country to allow policy to be driven by raw emotionalism and irrational fear rather than by a sober, data-driven analysis.
According to the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, there are approximately 28,537 flights per day in the U..S. That means in the past nine years since 9/11, there have been over 93 million flights. In the same period, there have been three attempts to carry explosives onto commercial aircraft (none of which were successful): (1) Richard Reid, the "shoe-bomber," (2) the London liquid bomb plot and (3) the more recent "underwear bomber." So, based on three incidents, or 1 in 31 million, hundreds of millions of people are being asked to endure, respectively (1) the absurd ritual of removing belts and shoes, (2) having their shampoo confiscated if its half an ounce bigger than what is now permitted and (3) being subject to a virtual strip search or intrusive pat down, in effect being treated as if they were criminal suspects. Yet people still buy into the line that these things are "necessary to keep us safe."
The right to be secure in one's person is surely at the heart of the Constitutional protection against unreasonable search and seizure. The Fourth Amendment stipulates the requirement of "probable cause," which the courts in recent decades have relaxed to the lower standard of "reasonable suspicion." In the case of airline passengers en masse, there is neither. But the TSA, by using the scanners and/or pat-downs, is effectively treating everyone as if they had reasonable suspicion sufficient to warrant a search of their persons.
Given that it is generally accepted (intellectually if not always emotionally) that there is no possible way for the government to provide a 100% guarantee of safety, what, then, is a fair margin of risk? With a rate of occurrence over a nine year period of 1 in 31 million, WITHOUT (prior to) the scanners and/or newly intrusive pat downs, I would say we are doing a fine job already, and that we don't need to go around instituting new procedures every time an incident occurs (and there will, inevitably, be more occurrences). How "safe" do we really need to be?
Finally, the question begs: if a rate of occurrence of 1 in 31 million rises to a level of risk sufficient to broadly abrogate citizens' rights under the Constitution, what, then, can the government not justify in the name of "safety" or "security?" At that point, we've pretty much defined out of existence the possibility of any search under any circumstance being deemed unreasonable.
So, no, Ms. Marcus, the issue is not one of "immaturity" on the part of those who are opposed to the new machines and/or pat downs. But there may well be a maturity issue with those blindly accept anything the government tries to impose upon us (and anything former government officials are getting rich from selling to us) in the name of "safety," when they have never actually remotely made that case.
Kurska
(5,739 posts)JEB
(4,748 posts)even stopped one potential terrorist?
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Initech
(100,083 posts)deurbano
(2,895 posts)For those who say people who use wheelchairs-- but dont want to be subjected to onerous screening measures-- should find alternative transportation, I would reply that it unrealistic
and harsh. My daughter, who is quadriplegic, has often needed to travel to Washington, DC for her advocacy work. We live in San Francisco. There is no realistic alternative to air travel for her. We dont mind that she receives extra screening. We mind when she receives so much extra screening that flights are missed. One time, when our whole family -- including her (then) three-year-old sister and her (then) seven-year-old brother--- was traveling with her back from Washington, we were ALL pulled aside with her and ALL subjected to extra screening
. and we had to wait and wait (and WAIT) as other non-disabled passengers continued to get screened
until finally someone was available to screen us
but even though we had gotten to the airport early (as we always try to do), we missed our afternoon flight, and couldnt get on another flight until the wee hours of the morning. Its one thing to be sentenced to hanging out in an airport for hours with a three-year-old and seven-year-old when it is unavoidable (flights grounded, etc.), but this did not feel unavoidable. The extra screening has resulted in other missed flights, too
not to mention, frantic rushing to make the plane, while also needing to make a bathroom stop first, since even when there are accessible bathrooms on planes, they are not really all that accessible. Also, aisle chairs are always requested ahead of time, but seldom ready at the gate, so there is usually a delay for that, too. It can make it seem like its my daughters fault if a plane doesnt leave on time
when other passengers can see we are the last people boarding, but dont know that we actually arrived early, but were subjected to delays they didnt have to experience.
[Sidebar: The term wheelchair-bound is archaic and not really accurate.]
Jersey Devil
(9,874 posts)She finally removed them but not before they threatened to throw her out of JFK airport in NYC. She said she didn't want anyone to see her bunions.
lpbk2713
(42,760 posts)They are automatons, devoid of any human common sense or feeling.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)If you're working for the TSA, may I suggest finding another line of work that isn't so dishonorable?
Give me one example. One. Uno. Eins. One example of the authoritarian circus, with the grope-downs, the pornoscanners and the bullying of disabled children, actually catching a real terrorist.
Give me one example. Last I heard, the TSA hasn't caught a single real terrorist. All they do is bully and harass the innocent.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)And Spain. But since I can't get there without flying, I guess I won't be going. Too many horror stories like this one.
green for victory
(591 posts)I refuse to fly under these circumstances too. And I was incredibly depressed about it since traveling is my favorite thing to do in the world.
Then I found Google Street view. No it's not like going there, but it's the next best thing and it is only going to get better. Already there's a virtual capsule at goog headquarters - a 360 virtual HD world that moves when you turn your head- like the Holodeck on Star Trek.
You can see stonehenge from up close, walk through the streets of Mallorca, or explore (some) of the castles in Ireland. All the major streets in Ireland have HD Street view now. If you haven't seen it you'd be amazed. Helpful travel guide blogs too- http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/
[IMG][/IMG]
Ok that's Scotland. I usually hang out on the Big Island.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Thanks!
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)and haven't been for a long time. My daughter was going to hockey camp in Portland, Me., about 10 years ago. Besides the normal shit we had to go through with her hockey equipment, there was a old woman there in a walker. She was too feeble to take off her shoes, or even her sweater. Although her daughter was with her, they separated them. The old woman was crying because she could not take off her own shoes, sweater, plus the fact they wouldn't let her daughter be with or help her with this. They did not take her to a special room but she was right there with everyone else.
This all went on for about half an hour. Eventually, other people began to complain about how this woman was being treated, and they let her daughter take off her shoes, sweater, and put her in a wheelchair to be taken onto the plane.
It took STRANGER PASSENGERS to complain before anything was done. Plus this was a good 10 years ago.
indepat
(20,899 posts)30-minute search nearly causing us miss our flight to LAX. It was the most mind-numbing instance of officious overkill I've ever witnessed.
Logical
(22,457 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)The true purpose of the pornoscanners and grope-downs is to coercively condition the American populace into passively accepting an authoritarian police state.
Of course, the TSA's completely useless for catching terrorists trying to skyjack or bomb an airliner - that's just their cover story.
Anyone who works for the TSA is a piece of shit.
Logical
(22,457 posts)railsback
(1,881 posts)All little girls in wheelchairs deserve free pass onto airliners! Praise Alla . I mean, praise God!
KansDem
(28,498 posts)And "Allah" is the name of God among Muslims (and Arab Christians).
So you're saying "Praise God...I mean God!"
What the fuck does that mean?
What's the difference?