His name was Jeremiah Mackay

[geek tragedy]

Last edited Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:06 PM - Edit history (1)

He was killed by Christopher Dorner while trying to arrest him.

Yesterday.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/02/jeremiah-mackay-id-d-as-slain-deputy-in-calif-manhunt-85209.html

Christopher Dorner could have put his weapons down and surrendered to Detective Mackay. Instead he riddled his body with bullets.

His wife is a widow, and his children will grow up without a father.

Because Chris Dorner was not willing to stand trial and avail himself of his constitutional due process of law.

How many more Jeremiah Mackay's are necessary would have been necessary to convince those bleating about this imaginary violation of Dorner's rights that he was serious about his refusal to surrender? That his rights were not being infringed upon when the police used potentially lethal force against him? How many dead bodies, how many widows before it was okay to use all necessary force to neutralize the threat that was Chris Dorner?

[Union Scribe]

1. Yep, anyone who criticizes the police hates that man's children.

In fact, all children.
And America.

[geek tragedy]

2. No, but people act as if Dorner was denied a chance to surrender by police.

He had plenty of chances. He chose instead to make widows and take kids' dads away from them.

There was no due process for Detective Mackay. And Chris Dorner got more than enough due process--they have him two hours to change his mind one last time. As if the body count didn't provide their answer.

[RobertEarl]

3. None of this should have happened

We shouldn't even need police. But we do.

Choices have been made and in this instance there is no going back. There really is no sense in beating dead horses, is there?

[geek tragedy]

4. The DU consensus is that even though Dorner shot any LEO who tried

to apprehend him, it was a gross violation of his human and constitutional rights to go after him with lethal force.

That he was murdered.

Lynched.

That's the crazy talk.

There's 1000 times more concern for this bogus claim of the government violating his rights than there is for the government servants who died at his hands.

[RobertEarl]

5. Oh, I get it now

You have determined that DUers have come to some sort of consensus and you want to complain about it.

[geek tragedy]

6. The death of Jeremiah Mackay has been the subject of much less anguish

around here than has the death of Chris Dorner.

That is perverse.

[RobertEarl]

9. That may be, I don't know

Certainly all the carnage is regrettable. Thanks, I guess, that it could have been worse and it wasn't.

The death of officer Mackay... I doubt anyone here wished it to happen. But when guns and bullets are involved so often that is what happens. [font color=white]

[geek tragedy]

10. Some people here have celebrated what Dorner did. Can provide several links if you wish.

It comes down to: how many chances did cops owe him to change his mind?

[cherokeeprogressive]

27. Would you say the same, even sarcastically, about anyone who stands by the Second Amendment?

Would you say those people hate the children of Newtown, CT? I ask because those parallels have been made, right here at DU.

A very popular DUer has even made the statement that anyone who supports the Second Amendment has as her sigline a statement that anyone who does is a racist homophobe.

[arely staircase]

28. that's not true. i am very critical of how the police have handled this

in regards to shooting innocent people who were not even similar in description. but dorner was a psycho who was a danger to virtually any and all he may have encountered.

[Light House]

7. Thank you for this thread.

Some around here seem to forget the devastation this monster inflicted on the families of the innocent civilians and police officers.
Good job.

[geek tragedy]

8. And that he was determined to inflict more death and more grieving.

Only his own death would stop him.

[Light House]

11. That's right.

Some around here seem to forget that Dorner is responsible for Dorner's violent demise.
And he was determined to take as many with him as he possibly could.
I won't shed any tears for this monster's removal from earth.

[Kalidurga]

12. Dorner being wrong doesn't = the PD and their methods were right.

Clearly Dorner was a murderer he clearly needed to be stopped either by being taken into custody or by death. However, the LE may have used the wrong method. Dead is dead of course. But, I am not sure they exhausted their options. Waiting him out may have been an option and that should be investigated. If for no other reason than to show good faith and restore some confidence in LE in these kinds of issues.

[geek tragedy]

13. It's a complex analysis driven by situation-specific facts.

Can you imagine if they tried the wait-and-see approach and another cop died or if he escaped?

Very easy for us to second guess while using our iPad or laptop in complete safety.

[Cooley Hurd]

14. Was he brought to trial? If so I missed it...

Your post is so full of wrong, not sure whre to begin.

[geek tragedy]

16. Yes, perhaps Jeremiah Mackay is still alive.

You should tell his widow and 7 year old child how wrong it it to judge Chris Dorner for shooting him.

Let me guess--you believed OJ when he said he would look for the real killer.

[Cooley Hurd]

17. First off...

There still is Rule of Law in this country. Do you know what that is? I'm going to guess you don't since you keep posting the same, inane bullshit about how the cops had the right to execute a suspect (look that word up).

2nd, who the fuck cares about OJ? It's 2013, geek, not 1994.

[geek tragedy]

20. If you're going to go on about the law, you should know it first.

1) The guy is dead. Since he's dead, there will not be a trial. So, the whole "pretend we don't know who did it thing" loses its currency. And NO ONE honestly doubts he shot those people. No one. No one has advanced any evidence or reason to believe the shooter was someone else.

2) The cops are allowed to use force against an armed and dangerous person who refuses to surrender. They do it routinely, and it is not controversial or illegal.

Police are allowed to shoot a fleeing suspect in the back if he's considered dangerous to the community at large. There are ample court opinions declaring that.

So, when people say the cops executed Dorner, they're ignorant.

[Cooley Hurd]

23. That's a hell of a pretzel you've gotten yourself into.

He's dead, and because there is no trial this makes him guilty. Okay...

Cops are allowed to use force. Not excessive force. Firing incendiary tear gass cannisters into a wood cabin had a result the police MUST have known about (unless they are the dumbest police on earth). We now here a tape of the police calling for a "burn". Setting fire to the cabin intentionally (a strong argument is made that the use of incendiary tear gas cannisters was intentional) - essentially burning the suspect alive. I don't think there's a Judge in this country that thinks settting someone on fire is NOT excessive force.

Police are NOT allowed to shoot a fleeing suspect in the back as a shoot-to-kill exercise. They aresupposed to attempt to disable them first.

[geek tragedy]

25. Well, you can pretend there's doubt as to whether he killed those people.

Free country, but you know better. Since it's his remains in that cabin, go ahead and make the case that whoever shot MacKay could have been someone else. Or stop with this farce of "he died before trial so we don't know who did it."

As far as incendiary cannisters go, sure they knew there was a chance they'd set something on fire. Did they know the cabin would go up like a tinder box? Probably not. We'll have to wait for the fire investigation, but it seems like there was an accelerant already spread through out the cabin. Perhaps by Dorner (he torched his own car).

Moreover, HE DID NOT BURN TO DEATH. The cabin caught fire, and then there was a single shot from inside the cabin. The guy decided to shoot himself rather than leave. So there goes that theory.

And you are flat out incorrect/wrong/factually inaccurate/false when you write this:

Police are NOT allowed to shoot a fleeing suspect in the back as a shoot-to-kill exercise.

http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/471/1/case.html

Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force. Thus, if the suspect threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm, deadly force may be used if necessary to prevent escape

[lynne]

15. Finally, a thread about one of his victims -

- instead of Dorner. We need to remember that there are four innocent people dead and too-many-to-count others that have lost their daughter, brother, father, uncle, son, etc.

Where is the sympathy for them? I've seen little evidence of it here, that's for sure. Thank you for remembering at least one of them.

[madinmaryland]

18. I hate the conflations that I see on DU like your OP...

I have seen no DUers saying that Dorner had a right to murder people or that he did not surrender when he had a chance to.

The point that he wrote a manifesto about the LAPD (which, by the way, has a very nasty history) is irrelevant, and should not be compared to him murdering innocent citizens.

[geek tragedy]

21. Lots of DUers are maintaining the cops had no right to use lethal force or kill him.

Which is a legal theory they invented just for Dorner's benefit.

[madinmaryland]

22. ...

I think I misread your OP, which is why it really doesn't match what you said.

I guess that's what a three hours of commuting for a year does to a person.

[TeamPooka]

19. RIP

[grantcart]

24. As the husband of a widow of a police officer killed in the line of duty

I thank you.

[geek tragedy]

29. I never knew. Man, I can't even imagine the loss. nt

[grantcart]

30. It was a long time ago (35 years) and we don't really think about it much except when

a news event like this comes up.

I never knew him but he had excellent taste in spouses and died way way too young.

[liberalmuse]

26. It's a sickening tragedy all around.

A former cop under the guise of fighting police corruption and clearing his name was merely on a self-serving killing spree to satisfy his own warped sense of "justice". On the other hand, there's no denying the LAPD and many other police forces are corrupt brotherhoods, bonded by their own experiences and prejudices against the people they perceive to be their nemesis (basically people of color, and too many civilians, pretty much). "Let's burn this motherfucker". There is too much senseless death by gun in this country. Things have become so fucked up that I really don't know if there's a solution. As long as we love and worship guns (I hate the fucking things), revenge, and are addicted to the shoot 'em up, action/adventure cowboy illusion, we are doomed to repeat this type of scenario over and over and over again.