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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSheriff: Cabin not purposely burned in firefight
Source: Associated Press
By GREG RISLING and TAMI ABDOLLAH
Associated Press
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San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon said Wednesday his deputies did not intentionally burn down the cabin. His deputies shot pyrotechnic tear gas into the cabin, and it erupted in flames, he said.
McMahon did not say directly that the tear gas started the blaze, and the cause of the fire remained unclear.
A charred body was found in the basement, along with a wallet and personal items, including a California driver's license with the name Christopher Dorner, an official briefed on the investigation told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing probe.
McMahon said authorities have not positively identified the remains.
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Read more: http://www.wect.com/story/21131542/fugitive-ex-la-cop-charged-with-murder-of-officer
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)onenote
(42,715 posts)I have no idea who was saying what, what they knew and what they meant. But it is true that pyrotechnic tear gas canisters are called "burners" and the slang term for deploying them is to "burn" them.
Archae
(46,337 posts)"How DARE you believe what that fascist sheriff says! WE all know the TRUTH!"
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Archae
(46,337 posts)The sound quality is poor, they could be saying what you claim, and possibly not.
Also this Youtube poster put up a news conference video with this title:
"Christopher Dorner Hoax - Body NOT Found, Despite Reports conspiracy"
It's painfully obvious this person has an ax to grind or an agenda to push.
And that agenda is to bring in a "conspiracy" when there is *NO* evidence of one.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)It connects Manhattan and Brooklyn.
GP6971
(31,170 posts)they found his license outside a San Diego hotel.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)and two ID's.
Not sure why a fugitive like Dorner would even want to carry identification, let alone two wallets both with identification.
Perhaps if he got pulled over, he would correctly identify himself to law enforcement? Or maybe he was worried about getting carded at a liquor store?
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)the other was a wallet with his CA DL. No mystery at all.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)But I'm just wondering why he would even want to carry identification when he's a fugitive. What purpose would it serve?
onenote
(42,715 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)I think he had other things on his mind - like the crazy idea that he could clear his name even after murdering innocent people.
He wasn't playing with a full deck. That's really obvious.
Hatchling
(2,323 posts)Apparently the ID found locally was his military ID. A specific that wasn't made until today.
Light House
(413 posts)was his wallet badge and LAPD ID. Most cops carry their police credentials in a separate wallet designed just for that purpose, what was found at the burned out cabin was his regular wallet with his driver license.
onenote
(42,715 posts)They found a picture ID. It was never said to be his driver's license and as many knowledgable people on this board have pointed out, it wouldn't necessarily be odd for him to have a separate wallet for his driver's license etc. than one for his ID.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)Were deployed.
One can almost hear some inflection in their voices.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)From the OP link. Not a stark-staring lunatic as some here have decided.
No, I do not condone his alleged crimes. I DO condone getting real information to get to the bottom of this.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)I prefer "psychotic," but this guy was insane, by any definition.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)while in hiding for his life encounters a stranger, who could ID him and get him killed post-haste, advises them to leave, that he doesn't wish to hurt them? He was in control of his value system and of his compassion. Perhaps he was at war and only with LAPD, and not everyone else? Soldiers go to war. Perhaps this was soldier stuff brought to a head. It's how he was trained.
I've studied a bit of psychology and am not an expert, but it is likely going too far to say he's insane by "any" definition.
onenote
(42,715 posts)which is why it makes perfect sense that he didn't kill the guy he carjacked or the women he allegedly tied up (and if I understand the timeline, from whom he first stole a car).
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)I've seen enough people suffer in my day, and I've suffered enough myself, to hope that he wasn't just basically "nuts", even if it was within the guidelines of his training
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)--well all I can say is that his value system runs counter to what is generally considered sane. (It certainly runs counter to my value system). Any intentional killing other than self-defense or legitimate euthanasia, you could argue, is insane.
Yes it's possible he was messed up by his stint in Afghanistan, if not by the LAPD. But he declared war, basically he became a domestic terrorist. Sad that he got no help for his issues, but at the time that he started killing people he was insane (by general definition). I'd have to know more to know exactly what kind of insane. I would imagine you don't believe his killings were justified. In this case, it seems to be premeditated murder, so I don't know if an insanity defense would help. It's a tough call on that.
--------------------
Here is some discussion about the James Holmes defense:
"This is not a whodunit," said Craig Silverman, a former chief deputy district attorney in Denver. "The only possible defense is insanity."
Under Colorado law, defendants are not legally liable for their acts if their minds are so "diseased" that they cannot distinguish between right and wrong. However, the law warns that "care should be taken not to confuse such mental disease or defect with moral obliquity, mental depravity, or passion growing out of anger, revenge, hatred, or other motives, and kindred evil conditions."
Experts say there are two levels of insanity defenses. Holmes' public defenders could argue he is not mentally competent to stand trial. If they cannot convince the court that he is mentally incompetent, and he is convicted, they can try to stave off a possible death penalty by arguing he is mentally ill. Prosecutors will decide whether to seek the death penalty in the coming weeks.
Holmes ultimately could enter a plea to the anticipated dozen first-degree murder charges verbally, or his attorneys could enter it for him. Prosecutors may file multiple counts of attempted first-degree murder and other charges against Holmes, whom Aurora police say booby-trapped his apartment with the intent to kill any officers responding there.
http://www.csmonitor.com
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)Cha
(297,323 posts)So if the "body" isn't Dorner.. who is it and how did it get there?
I don't blame the police for trying to end this maniac's rampage.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)You do not use pyro indoors. The officers trained to use the gas know that. They are trained to know that. And they likely did it intentionally. Whether or not they were ordered to do so I do not know and I won't jump on a conspiracy bandwagon that they might have been. All that you need to know is that the officers handling the tear gas knew what they would do. Which is precisely why they used "burners" on the police radio call. They knew the likely outcome.
They should be investigated and those who fired the tear gas should be held accountable. If they were ordered to do it they should come forward and say as much.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)If your cabin is on fire, then walk out the front door. If they would have shot him, that would be wrong, but frankly this doesn't bother me one bit. He got what was coming to him.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)and couldn't come out of the cabin on his own. The police set the place on fire and you shoot yourself so you don't burn alive.
Seems like a plausible scenario to me since one of the reports is that the SWAT officers saw blood spatter.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)It's unclear whether he had it with him since he got caught sort of with his pants down and it was unplanned. As far as I understand the fire had hardly got going when the gunshot went off, so he probably could've attempted to surrender at that point (whether he could've done so successfully is anyones guess), but he self admittedly said he was not going to be taken alive.
I think he didn't have the gear with him and he realized that he was being hit with pyros and all his contingencies were worn out so he killed himself rather than be taken alive.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)If you've ever been hit by one of these, even outdoors, they completely incapacitate you. In any event, had he fled the house he would've been shot. I figure he killed himself but all the conspiracy theory people won't believe it even if the coroner says as much.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/02/13/dorner-lapd-officer-fugitive-gunbattle/1915961/
HipChick
(25,485 posts)Audio recorded their police scanner, no matter how much they want to spin it..
Renew Deal
(81,866 posts)Though there might be a liability issue here. If they "burned" the cabin, they are on the hook for the repair rather than Dorners estate.
Either way, they should be truthful and I think thy are blatantly lying.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)are saying it was in the cabin.
So, which is it?
onenote
(42,715 posts)kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)I mean really people, Andy Griffith was a nice character, and all that - even wise in his homespun way. But you can't expect a simple Sheriff to know the immediate future! He isn't a crystal ball with a badge.
You throw some burners into a wooden cabin, and a fire breaks out. There's no predictable causal relationship there. It's like the tides. Know what I mean? Tides go in tides go out and nobody knows why. You can't explain that!
jsr
(7,712 posts)Glamrock
(11,802 posts)Might be plausible had they not been opening fire on everything that moved the week before.