Best health care system in the world my fuckin ass!

[Glamrock]

Last night my other mom (step mom) fell at the roller rink. The poor thing broke some bones in her wrist. The fall also pushed a bone out of place and through the skin. According to my dad and my stepbro, her arm had a couple 90° angles that should not have been there. So, off to the hospital they go. Aaaand let the fucking bullshit marathon begin.

They arrive at the hospital and of course, a bone sticking out of your arm, blood everywhere, and obvious excruciating pain isn't nearly as critical as the fucking paperwork that has to be done. Fine. Now it's time to sit for an hour waiting to be seen. Okay, they're finally seen. The open wound is cleaned and dressed. Now it's off to another hospital 15 miles away for surgery. Mom's gonna get an ambulance ride! Oh boy! My brother drives 25 miles to pick up dad, and then twenty miles to the hospital. They beat the ambulance there!

Now for the second round of fucking bullshit. The hospital has to call the surgeon who is on call for directions (meds, schedule surgery, etc.). Really? There's not a qualified doctor on the premises for this? Are you fucking kidding me? Aaalllright. So she finally gets some pain meds and is told surgery will be in the morning. Can't eat anything of course, due to the upcoming surgery.

So this morning comes and goes and guess what? No fucking surgery. Apparently, the surgeon has appointments at his office so surgery is now set for 3. Of course, she still hasn't eaten. And the pain meds on an empty stomach are causing her to become nauseous. And, of course, if she does get sick they can't do the surgery until tomorrow. Get that? Sorry lady, if you get sick because of our fucking incompetence you'll have to be in excruciating pain until tomorrow. Dumbfucks.

Well, the surgeon has a bad day at the office and she doesn't get into surgery until 4:30. My poor mom has been in absolute agony for a mere fucking 21 hours now, but the worst is behind her. The wife and I meet the rest of the fam in the cafeteria a little after 5 and head up to her room to wait. We have to go down to the nurses station to get them to change the sweaty, bloody sheets. Un-fucking-believable! Okay, it's now 6:15 and they bring her in. Good news, they were able to get everything in her wrist back in place without having to open her up. Cool! Some pins and a cast and she's good as new! Still in pain, but not quite as severe. She still hasn't eaten however. We wait 10 minutes for the nurse to come back. 11. 12. Fuck it. We call down to order her dinner at 6:35. The fucking kitchen is closed and the only thing she can get is a cold sandwich. Again, are you fucking kidding me? The kitchen is closed at 6 fucking 30? We certainly wouldn't want to upset the fucking shareholders with a couple $10 an hour employees! Or a surgeon on premises for that fucking matter. We're in the business of making money after all. Bastards. Anyway, now I have to jump in the car and make a fucking trip to Wendy's. Fucking bullshit! Now, for the record, I'm not pissed because I'm inconvenienced. I'm pissed because my 62 year old step mom hasn't eaten in 24 hours and now has to wait another 25 fucking minutes.

I am absolutely disgusted by what she had to endure since the fall. It's complete bullshit. I guarantee the price tag is going to be more than my Mini Cooper S. However, when I show up at the dealership, the bonnet (hood for those who don't know mini-speak) is up in 10 minutes or less. It's a sad fucking state of affairs when my car gets better service than a human being. I'm so fucking pissed I can't see straight.

Thanks fer lettin' me vent ya'all.

[msongs]

1. our health care system is awesome if you are a congress person or the president and his family. or

lots of $$.

[MrMickeysMom]

2. Dear me...

Pray, what is the name of that fucking piece of shit health care system, so we can all know?

It's more than inquiring minds...

[snappyturtle]

3. Another sad thing is this isn't unusual. I hear it frequently. nt

[tavalon]

4. Yeah,

I recognize so many of those things from the hospital I work at. Shameful, that's what it is.

I hope your mom gets out of there without a hospital acquired infection and can recuperate at home, soon.

[just1voice]

5. Wait until you see the bill

She/you'll be price-gouged like never before, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. Your "insurance" if you have any won't cover a huge sum, likely around 20g, yes that's $20,000+.

Your/her nightmare has only begun, the doctors, ambulance and hospital kitchen staff will seem like nothing when the bill hits you. Prepare yourself for corruption.

[Fuddnik]

10. 20 Grand? That's just for a band-aid.

By the time they're done, 6 figures is likely.

About 4 years ago, my 80 year old dad was having back and chest pains. He got into emergency right away (it was about 10pm). The next morning, the doctor said "I can see what's wrong right now. You have shingles". Then they never treated it. I guess there's a shot, if you get it within 48 hours that will pretty much stop it in it's tracks. They did shit, and discharged him because he wouldn't submit to a whole battery of expensive tests. They billed Medicare for them anyway.

He's still got the shingles and pain 4 years later.

I hope your step-mom works out better.

[xtraxritical]

18. My wife's been suffering with shingles for years and the shot did nothing for it.

[LibertyLover]

46. I can't believe how much I'm hearing about shingles just recently

Last week my stepdaughter sent me an e-mail. It seems that one of the employees in the company she works for has been coming into work with an active case of shingles. The problem is that there are 5 pregnant women who work in fairly close proximity to him, including her. She only found out about it by happenstance (the guy mentioned it to her) and immediately went to HR. Who did nothing. After a week of "investigating" HR determined that to mention anything to the individual would upset him and make him sad, so they chose to do nothing. HR also informed all the pregnant women that they were in no danger from his shingles. So my stepdaughter went to her boss and told him what was up. Her boss hightailed it to the vice president's office. Still nothing has been done, except that the individual was asked to stay home until his doctor gives him a clean bill of health. I'm sure her company is now worried about law suits in the event something happens to any of the pregnancies.

[CountAllVotes]

49. that is BULLSHIT

I was told that the shingles are HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS. That is why there is a shingles vaccine (which cost about $500!). If you get it before you are younger than 60, it is 70% effective and efficacy declines with age (so the older you get the less effective the vaccine is).

In any event, HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS I was told. I was not told this fact until after being heavily exposed and was told I am likely immune. I don't know about that ...

HOWEVER, I still plan to get the vaccine when it is affordable for me. It is not affordable for me now with all of these "new" changes in my health insurance policy otherwise I'd have gotten it by now!

Shingles is the silent epidemic that we thought went by the wayside with the likes of polio, small pox, etc. However, it is beast to get rid of and I really feel sorry for anyone that gets and esp. bad case like I have seen.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

50. Shingles is Chicken pox. It's only contageous to people who haven't had them

Someone with shingles could infect others with chicken pox IF they are in an active phase. Just like pox itself, once the sores are healed, you will not infect others. If you had Ch pox already, you could still develop shingles because the virus is in your body.

[CountAllVotes]

51. I found that out

After I'd been cleaning the open sores.

[Heather MC]

88. I have had Chicken pox twice. i think i should look into that vaccine

[csziggy]

52. Doctor wouldn't let me get the shingles vaccine until after I turned 60

I had chicken pox as a child which is the major factor that predisposes one for shingles. In addition I have had a herpes zoster infection in my left hand for 40 years (only recently diagnosed) - the same virus that causes shingles.

But despite those two factors, I was not allowed to get the shingles vaccine until after I had turned 60. Nope, couldn't get it a few months ahead of time, before my surgeries. Had to wait until after my birthday, then had to wait until two months after my surgeries.

And now I am not sure if the danged expensive vaccine is gonna help - it has not stopped the recurring infection in my hand which flared up last week. I dread what shingles will be like. That small place on my hand feels as though a cigarette is being put out on that spot. Continuously, for a week even WITH the Valtrex anti-viral.

If shingles covers my back as it did for my Dad, I'll want to be knocked out until it goes away, the bad will be so bad.

[csziggy]

58. I had to pay over $300 for the vaccine

Since my regular doctor is "not in network" for the insurance my husband gets with his job at the moment. According to the info I got from the insurance company, the vaccine would have been fully covered if the doctor was in network.

Not one of the doctors I use is in network with CIGNA. The doctors they list as in network are not the best in this area. The doctors I have previous relationships are recognized as some of the best in the area - and the orthopedic clinic I have used for 20 years is one of the best in the country. I'm not going to let some second rate hack get into my joints because CIGNA is too cheap to pay for quality care.

Besides, if I changed doctors every time my husband's employer changed insurance coverage, I'd have to switch every couple of years and would have no continuity of treatment.

So depending on your insurance, the shingle vaccine may be fully covered - check to find out. But don't just check with your doctor - check with your insurance. My doctor's office thought all vaccinations AND my wellness exam would be fully covered and were shocked when I was billed over $500 for them.

[CountAllVotes]

59. that is plain SAD

I'm in the same boat. I have insurance, said to be a great plan. With the changes this year I am basically screwed and screwed badly. Co-pays that were $25.00 a year ago are now $100.00.

I can't pay all of that money so I'll have to do without.

They were trying to get my husband to change eye drops for his glaucoma. He has that along with wet AMD and also permanent damage from the shingles.

Why don't they back off?

GREED is the answer. GREED GREED GREED.

[csziggy]

63. It really stinks

Though I managed to get a lot out of CIGNA last year - two total knee replacements and carpal tunnel surgery. But I had to pay a LOT more out of pocket than I would have if I had gone with their in network providers. For something like my knees and my right hand I am NOT going with second best.

I was lucky that I could pay the difference. Some years that would not have been possible, but last year was good. Of course, that meant less money going into savings, less for extras, less for retirement. At least now I can walk without pain and my right hand no longer goes number. I still have to get carpal tunnel surgery for the left hand and my husband needs foot surgery - which the surgeon won't do without an MRI and CIGNA won't approve the MRI without "treatment" ahead of time.

By the time we are done, we will have tens of thousands less in our savings and the doctors and hospitals will be MUCH richer.

[CountAllVotes]

65. I'm afraid I'm up against the same thing

I am highly needle phobic having had a needle embedded in my foot for who knows how long? It happened cleaning up my parent's house when I was 16 years old. No one believed me and finally my mother took me to the hospital ER and they x-rayed my foot and could see the other 1/2 of the needle in my foot. I've been highly phobic ever since (some 40+ years now).

MS drugs out there are mostly all injections which I will not and cannot do.

There is a new one coming out in pill form next month. I was hopeful briefly until I realized they'll probably want me to do those damned shots first before I'd ever get the pills.

How is that for sickening?

And this supplemental plan is not cheap. Cost being about $10K a year and for what?

Medicare pays most of it and now the drug plan has turned into this game of how much before the need of the patient.

The drug companies are calling all of the shots on health care now. Why do we even need doctors when the drug company (CVS -- a true cancer of a company IMO) tells you what you can an cannot have, hence the reason most of my co-pays jumped to $100.00 a hit.

I cannot afford it. I am trying to live on less than $1,000.00 a month.

I'm hopeless I must admit.

[csziggy]

87. Change is needed so badly

The ACA was a start but only a tiny step forward. Americans pay so much for health care and so many of our citizens get little or no access to good healthcare. Preventative treatments should be free and not dependent on insurance or choice of provider.

about your phobia with shots - my husband also is that way and he has to struggle with it any time he needs one, or even if I (or one of our animals) have to get one when he is there.

[barbtries]

68. relax.

http://newsmomsneed.marchofdimes.com/?p=12169

the risk is quite small. you can't "catch" shingles, you could "catch" chicken pox from a person who has shingles - if you never had chicken pox and was never vaccinated.

[arikara]

89. I had shingles last year

A horrible experience. My acupuncturist got rid of the nerve pain immediately. The rash was like a 3rd degree burn and took as long as a burn to heal. I didn't get any help from the allopathic medical system.

[TheMastersNemesis]

6. Remember This --- This System Is Just The Prototype For What The GOP Has In Mind

[CountAllVotes]

54. This System Is Just The Prototype For What The GOP Has In Mind

Ummm ... I hate to tell you this but it is already in place!!!!!!

[KT2000]

7. I've got one for you

An elderly friend fell while getting out of bed in the middle of the night in her assisted living facility. She had broken her hip such that her leg was just laying on the bed - it was no longer in the socket. The emergency room admitted her but did not give her any pain meds. They just padded the rails on her bed so she would not hurt herself thrashing around.

Her son finally got there about 9 in the morning and asked that a doctor see her and give her pain meds. He was told the hospitalist would be there as he made rounds. Thank god he was a person who is not averse to making noise - loud noise!
They finally got her some pain medication.

The rest of the story gets even worse but suffice it to say that they chose to keep her medicated into unconsciousness rather than do surgery to ease the pain. They transported her to a nursing home in that state where the resident physician said they could not let her suffer like that - it was better to risk surgery on her.
She sailed through the surgery and the pain was relieved - after 2 months of suffering.

[Glamrock]

9. Jesus christ!

If this is a competition, you win! Seriously though, how in the hell do we let this crap go on? Letting people just lay around in pain for profit motive? And the ones who scream the loudest to protect said profit will scream just as loud, "we're a christian nation!" It's enough to make you question your own sanity.

[KT2000]

21. one thing I learned from this

is that the use of "hospitalists" may turn into a real patient nightmare as it did in this case.
The patient is treated by the hospitalist, who works for the hospital, not the patient. We are supposed to trust that they will have the patient's best interest in their decisions.
Since the hospital is a business and a bureaucracy that is concerned with profits, losses and ratings. Those things will be used to pressure the hospitalist I am sure. It will take a pretty strong doctor to stand up to their employer and risk losing their job.

I think we have really lost our way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Not you, why did the basic ER not route her to a regional trauma center?

Oh never mind.

Watch for infections due to the compound fracture (bone sticking out)

[JEB]

11. Get in the car and head to Mexico.

You will get better care and it will cost a lot less.

[cynatnite]

12. I'm very sorry for the problems you and your family had...

But please keep in mind that health care providers are very overworked and underpaid as well. There are many other patients who also require just as much care as your mother and perhaps even more.

Patients have to be triaged for one thing. The lack of food is hard, but when surgery is a real possibility one of the worst things you can do is to feed a patient beforehand.

Hospitals are complex places to run and finding adequate staff can sometimes mean that adjustments have to be made. Some are able to keep their cafeterias open 24/7. Some can only open for short intervals at a time. Some have to close early. I've worked in several and depending on any number of circumstances, you will find many make adjustments as they see necessary.

Also, as far as the doctor goes...the hand is probably one of the most complex areas to treat. It's not unusual for a physician to be called in from their office (where they are also seeing a large number of patients as well) to the hospital. Depending on the circumstances, there could be a wait. That always varies depending on the urgency of the situation.

When a loved one is injured or ill, it's understandable that loved ones want their suffering to be eased. If health care workers don't provide relief as the loved ones wishes, they are usually the first ones to feel the brunt. It's understandable of course to get upset at seeing someone you love so much suffering, but please take a moment to realize that health care workers are doing the best they can under the circumstances they are forced to work under.

We're not allowed to provide food when there are no doctors orders for it. We're not allowed to keep warm food available for patients. We can only keep sandwiches and a few snacks. We are limited in what we are able to provide to patients due to any number of reasons. We do what we can to provide the care that is within our power. Most of us provide it with empathy and caring.

Also, there is one thing that you can do in order for the hospital and staff to know of your frustration. They usually will either follow up by a phone call or with a patient survey. You can explain in as reasonable terms as possible of your dissatisfaction with the care your mother received.

I spent many years working in health care. I have been cursed at, screamed at, punched, thrown up on and bled on. I've fed people, given baths and I've wiped the butts of full grown adults.

No matter how much grief us in the health care have been given, we still continue to do this work because we care about our patients and want what's best for them. The patients we care for are our mothers, fathers, sons, brothers, etc. How we would want our loved ones treated is the care we give to our patients.

Again, I am sorry for the difficulties you and your family had during such a difficult time. I hope in the future it is better for you all should you ever find yourselves in such unfortunate circumstances again.

[nightscanner59]

16. Yes, echos of Cynatnite's expression

As a fellow 20 plus year medical technology veteran, I can echo Cynatnite's responses here. Your frustrations are terrible, and the worst thing that patient care staff, (not just doctors) fights--- especially private healthcare conglomerates about. Until the nephew of one of the high-up's in the hospital administration gets admitted to their own facility, do they discover what all the cuts, cuts, cuts cuts they've been doing for the last 20 years do to the system. It's broken. Between insurance co's taking far more than their share and the "administrative costs"... ahem... "Sorry, sir, we have no nurses or technical staff anymore". I can't count how many facilities "do" with half the patient care staff they had 10 or 20 years ago!!!
And that gets far, far worse in "right to work" states that have very little protections from overloading nurses with too many patients.
So many facilities stretch the patient care staff to the absolute limits and beyond. Stress anyone? Burnout is so common, but demand down as well--- not to lack of need!!! but to administrations who say we must do "more with less, more with less, and more with even less" till the job is just un-do-able. That's not even mentioning how hard it is to deal with sick, upset, painful and frustrated patients. Every meeting at one place I was a couple years ago was a constant reminder of how easily we could be replaced!!
"For-Profit" turns medical care into a nightmare for everyone involved. Unfortunately it's most facilities, then the "not for profit" must compete.
This country, the damn "tea" party idiots and the repug's did this country a great disservice not making it a single payer system. Only the very rich will get medical care that is acceptable until this changes.

[Glamrock]

32. I'm hip to what you're saying

I don't disagree. My anger is mostly directed at the "for profit" system which creates these situations. If we're a "christian nation", then what's going on in this country's health care system should be considered a cardinal sin.

So, while I didn't expect any surgery until the morning, I did expect someone to be there to say, "you have a bone sticking out of your arm. I'm going to prescribe x for the pain." Furthermore, I would also expect the god damned cafeteria to be serving hot meals to the patients at dinnertime. That shit is inexcusable. Especially considering the price tag.

That being said, I get your point. I'm not really blaming the nursing staff.

[cynatnite]

47. That price tag also covers the uninsured...

Also, hospitals have to operate in less than optimal conditions which can mean that the cafeteria closes earlier than you'd like. I've known some that only opens two hours at a time three times a day. It's just how it is.

In an ideal world, the conditions would be better. But the high price tag isn't just padding the pockets of the wealthy. It's also covering the cost of the uninsured and trying to staff a place where the turnover is high.

It's not as simple as you want it to be.

[orleans]

36. what you said may apply to you

"The patients we care for are our mothers, fathers, sons, brothers, etc. How we would want our loved ones treated is the care we give to our patients."

and hopefully it applies to the majority of health care workers

but don't kid yourself thinking everyone feels that way.

they don't.

i know how carelessly, condescendingly, and indifferently i was spoken to and my mother was spoken to when she was in the hospital before she died. by her goddamn doctor!

no, they certainly don't *all* care.

and some are real fucking assholes.

[cynatnite]

48. I never said all. I said most. I do agree that a few are real fucking assholes. n/t

[meaculpa2011]

40. True about hand injuries.

My wife waited two days for hand a surgeon.

Things happen. When my son fell and sliced his lip, we waited about 8 hours for a cosmetic surgeon. He was standing right next me in the kitchen and just flopped face first. My mother still blames me. Of course, when I was 18 months old she let me play in one of those wheelie things that kids would sit in and ride around the apartment. I went down a flight of stairs because the safety gate broke free from the rail. Whenever I remind her she tells me to shut up.

People in healthcare try to do their best. In most cases they're overwhelmed and their hands are tied by bureaucracy and stacks of regulations. And most hospitals are public or non-profit.

[enlightenment]

55. Are most hospitals really public or non-profit?

I don't know - do you have any statistics?

I do know that in my city, there are about 15 full-service (and several more rehab) hospitals. One of them is public - all of the remaining 14 are private for-profit facilities. My city could be an anomaly, but I have to wonder . . .

[meaculpa2011]

97. No statistics, but for-profit corporations...

are barred from owning hospitals in New York

I should have been more specific.

Gov. Cuomo's latest budget includes a pilot program that would allow for-profit ownership of two hospitals in New York.

[enlightenment]

102. Wish they were barred in my city.

I live in Las Vegas (NV, not NM). Notoriously poor healthcare here - the horror stories abound.

[burnsei sensei]

78. These circumstances are far too commonly reported to be

characterized as "unfortunate."
It's like calling the Newtown massacre "a random and senseless act of violence."
It was not random.
It was not senseless.
It was just plain evil.
And as for these horror stories and the many more that will not be told here-- they are not merely "misfortunes," they are indicators of institutional malaise in the health care sector of the economy.
More money, less care.
People do not suffer to give you grief.
They suffer because the world is hard and unfair.
Whatever action or person tries to address and ameliorate its cruelty is defined as good.
Whatever fails to do so or promises restoration falsely is evil.

[cynatnite]

92. You don't think that we in the health care have to deal the hand we're dealt with?

We have a heavy patient load as do the doctors. Hospitals can't keep many specialists on staff at the hospital 24/7. They have their own practices to see to. They are in huge demand.

Hospitals have differing needs so cafeterias operate at different times. Sometimes it's more of a matter of necessity because of expense.

This is not "institutional malaise".

This is a system that is overburdened and underfunded.

In this system that we're working in, we are doing the best we can with what we have. We are limited by lack of funds, regulations, doctor's orders, insurance companies as well as family and patient demands.

It's a lot to contend with, but most everyone I know in the health care industry perform above and beyond in very difficult situations.

I've spent my life in the health care industry and despite how you and others view us, I will remain within it because I believe in helping people.

[burnsei sensei]

95. The conditions you describe

sound highly productive of institutional malaise.

Quote:
This is a system that is overburdened and underfunded.
end

I'd be concerned if these conditions did not produce institutional malaise.
I'm glad you believe in helping people.
And if you are, in fact, helping people at your vocation, then it is fulfilling in spite of the institutional malaise that has prevailed for at least 40 years in health care.
My husband was one of the ill-famed 45,000. His inability to access the system did not directly cause his death, but the system was nonetheless culpable in his death. And trust me, it was ugly.
As far as I'm concerned, if 45,000 people are dying every year of preventable disease or disorder, there is institutional malaise in the system. This is not an indictment of your competence, this is an honest observation about the system itself.
In fact, even if the number was only 18,000, there'd still be institutional malaise.

[judesedit]

13. You're right. It sucks! And this is a common scenario. Not rare. America does NOT have the greatest

health care system in the world and maybe never did. We need single payer health care where payment is based on how many patients get better...not how many stay sick. I'm sorry your mom had to go through that. I have horror stories of my own, but I won't go into it right now. Let's just say I agree with you 150%. It's ashame for the people who care and try to do their best. They can't be everywhere at once.

[LongTomH]

62. Actually, we're 51st in the world, by CIA World Factbook figures:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy#List_by_the_CIA_World_Factbook_.282011_estimates.29

[Exen Trik]

14. But it IS the best!

What other countries health care can extract so much money out of its citizens and provide so little? None of them, that's what!

And really what other factor matters, to anyone that actually matters?

[ReRe]

15. Hospitals are not what they used to be....

... because I used to work in them. In the hospitals I worked in, you would be written up or fired for treating patients in such a way. Let me tell you what to do... and this goes for the rest of your life. Take a digital camera with flash with you to the hospital. If shit doesn't go right, take it out and start documenting what the fuck is going on. And I swear to God, nurses will break their necks to get to your loved one and take care of them. This happened to me when I was at the Hosp with my dear Mother. She was loosing blood and the nurses wouldn't get it stopped. I flashed ONE picture and there they were, johnny on the spot. Mom could have sued them for what they did, because I had a dynamite photo of her sitting there in bed with blood soaked bandages on her upper R chest. But, of course, she wouldn't think of it. Believe me...a camera works.

[nightscanner59]

17. Whoops.... NOT a good idea. at all.

NO it is illegal to snap pictures of medical staff without express permissions! You can be sued for that. Yes certainly hospitals aren't what they used to be, but it is the system that is broken, not the nurses. You make yourself a pain in the ass, I can guarantee your care may be provided "faster"--- that's not a good thing. Not at all. You want service in a minute, McDonald's is right down the street, cause that is what kind of medical care that attitude produces.
You make a "snap judgement" of someone in the medical staff cause they didn't do something fast enough, get them fired and I guarantee you will produce an environment where care gets worse, and worse... and worse...

[cynatnite]

19. Agreed. n/t

[ReRe]

24. Sorry Bud...

..it worked in 2007. I saved my Mother's life too, by taking that one picture. Care couldn't possibly get any worse than it is now. She had just had a fucking giant cath shunt taken from her R top chest that was used for dialysis while in the Hosp. She was being prepped to go home. She was in ICU. I asked the nurses to come and take care of it, because it was bleeding through. That happened three (3) times. It was still bleeding and Mom's blood count was already dangerously low because of her condition. I didn't know what more to do, so I remembered that I had the camera in my bag. I took it out, pointed it toward Mom and clicked. They flew in there in about 10 seconds and didn't say a word to me. They called down to the cath lab and told them they were bringing her back down, and away they went with her. The bleeding was stopped by stitching her up! She had to stay an extra two days to get her blood count back up. They didn't sue me, and I didn't sue them. And Mom lasted 9 more precious wonderful months.

What would you have done? Let your Mom bleed out and die right there in front of you because the staff was incompetent or overworked and because you was afraid to open your mouth in fear of being sued by the hospital? Even had I known that they could have sued me, I would have done the same thing.

[tblue]

26. But it's also a good idea

to have someone from the family there nonstop. Just so they don't get pissed at you for taking pictures and take it out on the patient. Yes?

It's always good to have someone there anyway. I feel so sorry for people who are alone in the hospital. That's downright scary.

[ReRe]

28. She was in there for 2 & 1/2 weeks...

...siblings helped me allot, so I could go home and rest and freshen up. There was somebody there with her from the family at all times. The staff had been great right up till that moment in ICU.

[undergroundpanther]

33. It is scary

I have been in severe pain,after awhile I couldn't hold back,and started screaming it hurt so much.Then they got pissed but I couldn't take it. They saw my hair and look and assumed addict. I have no addiction history or issues,so they let me sit for hours crying and screaming,until they decided my pain was genuine enough to help. I would have loved to have someone there.

[blueamy66]

27. So, if one documents poor care, care gets worse?

Nurses will purposely give lesser care if pics are taken or "one makes themselves a pain in the ass"? Would you testify about that in Court?

[orleans]

37. i don't think he snapped a pic of the staff

he took a picture of his MOM bleeding and not getting any help.

and yeah, the more people complain the worse the treatment gets. so why don't we all just shut the fuck up and deal with it.

NEVER let someone know you need help--people are psychic--they'll figure it out sooner or later.

NEVER demand emergency treatment for someone
because that emergency treatment will only get worse if you start demanding (and complaining!)

NEVER bother being an advocate for someone else while they are in the hospital (in spite of what we have been told to do for YEARS!) because someone who works there might think you're just a pain in the ass. AND they may not like you anymore.

oh please!

puft!

[Hekate]

20. Nurses (RNs) are the most expensive item in the budget. Guess what gets cut the most?

Right. The one category of employee most directly involved with patient care, with bringing sick people back to health -- but instead of being seen as an absolute necessity that must be worked around, they are seen as an expense item....

RNs have been overworked and kept understaffed for years and years now. It's a management decision based on the bottom line.

I'm so sorry for the trauma to your family -- speedy recovery to your mom.

[nightscanner59]

23. They are?

I thought that CEO who got three nurses yearly salary in one bonus check for cutting enough nurses was the "most expensive"... but then... I'm not an administrator. Maybe he did three times the work?

[Hekate]

77. Ahh, but there are more than 3 nurses per hospital -- many many more....

... and their salaries add up frightfully.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

22. They literally treat animals better.

Assholes.

Sorry your stepmom had to go through that.

[tblue]

25. I hear ya! I was once denied a cancer test

because I had only a photocopy of my insurance card--and not the actual card--in my wallet. Now this was not a routine test. My doc had found something and wanted it checked right away.

Anyhow, I finally got the test and the result was negative, thankfully, but good gracious, what if I couldn't find my insurance card? What if I hadn't had insurance? I really really really needed the test!

Btw, My deductible is $4000 per person and we are a family of 3. We pay about $1000 a month in premiums.

Thank you for sharing that story. What a nightmare! She would have been better off in Mexico! I'm sending the best vibes to your sweet mom and you.

[jambo101]

29. All the best to your Mom.

Classic case of money first patient later,I'd send a letter to your local newspaper and another to your representative in Washington just to let em know things need to be fixed.
I'll presume your Mom pays high costs for her medical coverage and never thought those payments would result in such shoddy service..

[CountAllVotes]

30. that is horrible!!

It seems the older you are the lesser of a person you become with the health care system these days.

They'd rather save more than a few bucks by putting things off at the expense of a person's health, esp. an older person who may not have such great heath.

It saddens me to read this but I've been going through some similar things (today in fact!) that are indeed despicable, and yes that is the word I used, DESPICABLE.

This shameful care that you poor step mother went through is what one comes to almost expect these days, esp. when one shows up at the ER.

I wrote about a couple of my recent experiences the other day here and they were not only humiliating but costly as all hell and little if anything was done for about $15,000.00.

In your step mother's case, I'm guessing the bill will be probably be close to $50,000.00 for this disgusting mal-adventure!

I don't know what else to write to you expect that yes I understand and now you can see what is happening with the medical system in this country.

It is filled with a bunch of incompetent greedy idiots is my opinion.

I'm sad to read you story but I will say one positive thing and that is that at least YOU were THERE FOR HER!

May God bless ya' for that!

I hope you and you step mother get well soon because I can see that this has done you no good either.

Take care of yourself and thanks for caring for you step mom. There is nothing worse than being alone and sick w/no help, believe me on that one. !!!

As for the health care system in this country, is sucks so bad it is alarming to me. How did we get here so damn fast anyway? Insurance or no insurance ... seems not to matter does it?

[idwiyo]

34. Here are a lot of hugs to your Mum and to the rest of your family. Hope she will have a speedy

recovery.



I honestly can not comprehend a First World Country, one of the richest countries in the world that doesn't have National Healthcare Services. It just boggles my mind. Even worse, I can not understand anyone who thinks its a swell idea no make money of pain and suffering. Sick beyond belief and there is no justification for it.

[newfie11]

35. Having worked 40 years in hospitals across America

I can tell you there are terrible ones and very good ones.
If possible always take an injured family member to a level 1 trama hospital. The docs must be on site. Yes they can be incredibly busy but the patient is not going to wait for the surgeon to finish office hours.
I have seen patients die as docs screw around during that golden hour. It makes a BIG BIG difference where you go.

I now live near a town with one of the worse hospitals. No I never worked here. People drive over 100 miles to a better one or die trying.

Edit:
If you have someone admitted in a hospital I strongly suggest a family member or friend be with them if possible 24/7. Question (nicely) everything.

[Quantess]

38. It's not unusual to have to wait days for broken bone surgery, anywhere in the world.

It's not like it's going to be any more broken if you don't get it set immediately. All it does is prolong the agony, but IMO, it's better to wait for a qualified surgeon than have it set improperly.

Ambulance ride: Get someone to drive you instead, it'll be a lot cheaper! I will always try my hardest to find another way to the hospital that doesn't involve an ambulance.

[HiPointDem]

41. It's common to wait days to surgically clean, reset & close a compound fracture? I don't think so.

Open fractures remain one of the true orthopaedic emergencies. Current principles of treatment consist of splinting the fracture and administering antibiotics at the time of initial patient assessment, followed by expeditious transfer to the operating room for aggressive debridement, lavage, and stable fixation of the fracture, forty-eight hours of antibiotic prophylaxis after each procedure or debridement, and delayed closure of open wounds when appropriate. The desired outcome includes skeletal union with intact soft tissues and normal function.

http://www.rcsed.ac.uk/fellows/lvanrensburg/classification/commonfiles/open.htm


The surgical treatment of open fractures is generally thought to be a surgical emergency. Most surgeons attempt to bring their patients with open fractures to the operating room within 6–8 hours of the time of injury. This early intervention is thought to reduce the risk of infection and other complications [5]. The 6–8 hour rule is based on basic scientific information that suggests that contaminated wounds not treated within this time frame will have sustained enough bacterial multiplication to result in early infection [14].

https://www2.aofoundation.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/c0/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3hng7BARydDRwN39yBTAyMvLwOLUA93I4MQE_2CbEdFAF3RnT4!/?segment=Calcaneus&bone=Foot&soloState=true&popupStyle=diagnosis&contentUrl=srg/popup/further_reading/PFxM2/42_9-11_Open_fx_initial_assess.jsp

[Quantess]

99. You're probably right. I overlooked that it was an open "compound" fracture.

I was thinking about my own experiences with broken bones, but those were not open wounds. I stand corrected.

[maddiemom]

74. I was once in a minor traffic accident that looked worse than it was because both

cars had gone off the road into a field and were banged up, No one was hurt beyond a few bruises. We were all standing around talking to the state policeman who had shown up (the barracks was just down the road) and waiting for tows. At that point an ambulance showed up, although neither of us drivers, nor the cop had called for one. Turned out a passing motorist had taken upon himself to call the ambulance. We refused unnecessary treatment and the ambulance left empty. Wow, the bills both of us drivers were sent were enormous! We were in touch and both agreed not to pay because neither of us nor the police had called. After some back and forth the ambulance service let it drop because they had just been called by an anonymous and long gone passer-by.

[abelenkpe]

39. Depressing reality

Our hc system is a sad joke. Hope your mom feels better!

[OwnedByCats]

42. This not hospital related

Last edited Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:51 AM - Edit history (1)

but something that I found ridiculous. I moved to the UK in my mid twenties back in the 90's. At first I was worried because I'd heard their NHS was horrible. I don't know about the other parts of England I didn't live in, but the NHS was pretty good I found. I got better results there than I ever received here.

After ten years in England, I got the shock of my life when I returned home. The first time I saw a doctor here after being away, I was given a standard blood test. This wasn't special testing, just blood counts, iron, vitamin D and thyroid levels. One thing to remember, I was not insured at the time. When I got the bill for my test from the lab, I almost fainted. It was $800!!! I mean, are you kidding me?! Between that and my one doctor visit, I owed almost 4 figures. What the hell happened here?

Back in 1997 (I was not insured then either), I saw my gynocologist for my yearly "woman" check up just before I moved abroad. She did the cervical biopsy, took enough blood to test for all I mentioned above, plus enough to test for STD's which was standard practice then, just in case there may be a disease that didn't produce physical symptoms. I paid $150 for that check up, including the lab work, which by today's standards is pretty cheap! God only knows how much they charge for those now.

What is the world coming to when seeing your doctor once will cost you 3 figures and then into 4 God forbid you need any blood tests?

Just disgusting and this is only the tip of the iceberg.



Edited to say: I don't mind paying for health care if it's reasonable, but when one visit with blood work eats up nearly an entire month's salary for some people, something is very wrong. Prior to that I'd had a seizure and went to the hospital. Between the ambulance, CT scan, vitals taken and some potassium to drink, my bill came to almost $5,000. This is just not acceptable. The service in England was far better. Example: If I called my doctor's office in England with a request for him to call me back, he always did within 2 hours. If I call my doctor here, if I hear back later that day, it's a rare occurance. Usually I end up waiting a couple days and that's only contingent on whether I call to remind them I asked for a call back.

[burnsei sensei]

79. The U.S. is the most self-deceived society in the world.

If this society functioned, and health care would reflect it if it did, then we would be able to stomach the truth-- burdens are not meant to be shouldered, they're meant to be shared.
That's what they know in Britain and have forgotten here.

[libtodeath]

43. That stuff like this happens so often here in this country is sickening

american exceptionalism my ass.

[sorefeet]

45. I blame doctors and nurses

They are the front line, they see first hand all the wrongs in the industry and don't demand change?? How many of you see something wrong in your job and don't change it. Who in the fuck gets to see up close the corruption and horrors knowing it is all wrong and not protest some how. It has gone on for so many years that people just turn a blind eye, it's just SOP, it is what it is??? I call bullshit. Between the DEA and the paycheck, medical people are owned by the corporates just like the politicians.

[marions ghost]

61. BS

You are suggesting that people "owned by the corporates" who work grueling hours are responsible and should demand change? Risk losing their jobs and their reputations?

I don't think you really believe that.

[SharonAnn]

93. They are not the ones who are controlling things. The MBA's are controlling things.

The nurses especially have little control over hospital policies. Doctors have some influence, but it's less and less these days.

[still_one]

56. I am curious why she was sent to a second hospital. Were they dumping her, which is illegal, or

didn't they have the proper expertise to handle it?

I am sorry for the suffering your other mom had to go through, however, depending on the circumstances that may be the only way it could have been handled.

The first hospital stabilized the patient, and assuming they did not have the expertise to perform the procedure, the only thing they could have done is transfer her to a hospital that does. As far as her wait times in the emergency room the questions that arise are did they go through a triage, because if not that would be negligent. Most emergency rooms do a triage, and put the ones who are most critical at the top of the line.

For the second hospital, most specialists are not available 24/7 at a hospital, they have to come in.

From what I can see the problem is resources, and unless the country is willing to pay more money for quality healthcare, not the half-baked act they call the ACA where insurance companies get a windfall profit, and no one really knows how much more insurance premiums will cost. One thing is that insurance premiums have generally gone up 15% since the ACA passed. The question is, are we getting better service for that care?

Your situation does not appear so

[DearHeart]

57. File a complaint with the hospital and if need be, with your state's Health Department.

I've never heard of a surgeon who is too busy at the "office" to not do a surgery. Its usually the other way around, their always in surgery and their office patients are the ones who do the waiting. My father's surgeon is always either cancelling appts or pushing appt times back because he's at the hospital...in surgery. My uncles' surgeon is also the same way. There is something wrong with any surgeon who puts off a surgery in favor of patients in their office, as opposed to patients waiting in the hospital ER.

Hope your step-mom is doing much better and that you have been able to relax.

[loyalsister]

60. Great technology- worst delivery

The tech opens the door for people with disabilities and children who have special needs to survive initially. Then the care necessary is either limited or unavailable.

[Uncle Joe]

64. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Glamrock.

[Evoman]

66. That all really sucks. Only thing I'll say though in their defense is that you can't

eat before surgery. It can cause all kinds of problems with anaesthetics and shit like that. As long as they stop the bleeding and they give her painkilllers AND anti-nausea medication, not much can be done. She shouldn't have been nauseous....that's ridiculous. Hospitals have access to great anti-puke meds. Not eating sucks....I'm a stage 4 cancer patient and I've been in the hospital more time than I can count. I know it sucks. But you don't want your mom to get the wrong amount of anaesthetic during surgery because of the food, or choke on her vomit during surgery/recovery.

[RC]

67. I see a Letter to the Editor of every newspaper for 200 miles around.

Entries on every web site you can, that you normally visit. Contact your Congress critters, for what good that would do.
Maybe even a bill board or two, before you get the bills. Maybe get your own web site.

[Th1onein]

69. I know you're upset, Glamrock and I'm sorry about your mom.

But that was the best damned post I've seen in a long while.

[antigop]

70. Wendell Potter on "the best health care system in the world"...spinmeisters succeeded

http://www.kclibrary.org/blog/kc-unbound/interview-whistle-blower-wendell-potter-why-our-health-care-system-sick

“If you are among those who believe that the United States has ‘the best health care system in the world’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary,” writes Potter in a new book, “it’s because my fellow spinmeisters and I succeeded brilliantly at what we were paid very well to do with your premium dollars.”

In other words, if you didn’t know things were so bad, it’s because Potter and his colleagues were good at their job.

[appleannie1]

71. Your mom has joined the club I have been initiated to. Hugs to her.

As I sit here doing my PT at home because medicare only pays X amount of hours for each claim whether more is needed or not and my therapist is stretching them out in hopes when my arm is healed enough we have hours left from the wrist so we can start work on it. Not only my wrist but my arm is broken an inch below the shoulder and because of blood thinners I take, I am not a candidate for surgery unless it is life threatening. So what should have nuts and bolts has to slowly heal on it's own.

[mike dub]

72. That's disgraceful. Sorry that your step mom had to go through that

Her (and your) experience also makes me wonder: how would the average U.S. emergency department deal with a national-tradedy/mass casuality event if it happened ... when they can't even get their sh*t together taking care of a woman who is in terrible pain, with bone breaks sticking OUT of her body?

Again-- disgraceful, and scary.

[matt819]

73. You should have driven her from one hospital to the next.

That ambulance ride is going to be a fortune.

[truedelphi]

75. That is one horrid story. I had a similar injury to my arm when I was 11, in 1963.

The worst part of it was the drive to the hospital, with my parents freaked and arguing about which way to go.

At the hospital, it was a long wait - maybe 45 minutes? Maybe an hour and twenty? Time goes slowly when you are in pain.

But anyway within two hours, I was rushed to surgery, which was done right away. (Surgeons were always on hand back in the day. Even on a Saturday, which is the day it happened to be.)

I stayed the night, due to the fact that the health care folks thought the aenesthesia might have a bad effect on me. I was released the next morning. My parents used the cafeteria at night and in the morning - it was always open (Except maybe from 4Am to 6Am for a cleaning?)

However once the Nineteen Nineties arrived, community after community has lost their community hospital. Usually the drill is "Community hospitals just cannot deliver the level of professional care that a Mainstream Franchised hospital will deliver. This is for the good of the consumers, er, uh, the community! Yeah, that's the ticket!"

And now we consumers, er, uh community members are suffering as a result.

[crim son]

76. You and your step-mom have my greatest empathy.

I'm dreading such an event. Haven't been to see a doctor for anything other than a consultation in several years b/c I hav no health insurance. I have asthma, rheumatoid arthritis and clinical depression plus all the other, regular shit that comes and goes once you hit middle age. Fortunately the physician I saw when I was married and insured knows I am not an idiot and takes care of my depression without forcing me to go in every six months for an update, or forcing me to go to counseling which is useless and cost prohibitive. But the rest of my diseases I ignore. My workplace does not, unfortunately. I'd do infinitely better if I lived in Mexico, healthcare-wise.

[Egalitarian Thug]

80. K&R&I'm so sorry your mom and you had to go through this. We do have one of the best

health care systems in the world, it's just that you and me and everyone reading this can't get into it.

[riverbendviewgal]

81. america has the most expensive health care system in the world

It is imbalanced and favors the well off.

watch SICKO to get to know some of the other systems in the world.

My husband had non hodgkins lymphoma and was in and out of hospital for three years. Our younger son was diagnosed with the glio blast a multiforme brain tumor and treated for 18 months. The costs for us was zero.

And I got $2300 for each of their funerals. I checked it out and my son got all the treatments ted Kennedy had.

Maybe someday america can get a just health care system not based on profit and greed.

[emsimon33]

82. As an American tourist in London, I had to go to the hospital for an emergency

I had watched my father almost die in the waiting room of the emergency at a hospital in Virginia Beach, VA. We finally got him admitted when I called doctor friends and the hospital finally called in another emergency doctor!

In London, not only did I wait for just minutes before the process of helping me was begun, but my "emergency" was not even life threatening. The care and the speed of the care was amazing and there was no charge for the same tests, etc. I had spent thousands in the US (my insurance is $500 a month and I had a $6000 deductible at the time so I wrote checks for everything until I reached the deductible and was well aware of the costs of each test).

I tried to pay but the hospital said there was no way for them to collect fees but since I had taken a taxi to the hospital, they could reimburse me for that (I declined.)

Most Americans have NO idea how poor our medical system is. Having been the primary care giver for first my mom and then my dad when they were dying of cancer, I know first hand. There should be no profit in medical care--and it is medical and not health care in the US.

All that being said, my heart goes out to your step mom. I hope that she is recovering rapidly now.

[tclambert]

84. They were going to pay for your taxi ride to the hospital?

Socialists! Here in the US, we do it right. You have to fight the insurance company to pay for an ambulance ride or tests their panel of faith healers decide not to cover. You may have to fight for things they obviously should cover because their business model tells them that sometimes people won't fight when they improperly deny a claim, and your subsequent death may net them a penny more in profit. It's not personal, it's just business.

[newfie11]

85. Yes I was going to mention the S word

The word everyone seems to equate anything that helps the average person.It all turns to socialism if it doesn't benefit the rich or helps everyone.

[DissidentVoice]

91. I don't run from the word

Ever since the days of McCarthyism, the far right has successfully brainwashed Americans into believing socialism=Stalinism, Kim Il Sung, Erich Honecker, etc.

Anything to the left of Ayn Rand is automatically "socialism" to them.

When someone tries to insult me with that term, I usually say "Yes, so what?"

[emsimon33]

103. They could only reimburse. They had no process for accepting payment for services.

[magic59]

83. Any health care system based on profit is doomed to failure

We have a failed system that even looks bad compared to Pakistan. One trip to the emergency room can keep you in debilitating debt for the rest of your life. This is not a good country to be stuck in. I would gladly give up me citizenship for any other in Europe.

[glinda]

86. I know. If i listed all the crap that they did wrong when my mom had a stroke

it would make for a book. They kill people with the poor health care in this Country.

[DissidentVoice]

90. We do not have a health care system

A system is coherent parts working together to produce a coherent whole.

Health care in the United States is a lot of things, but it isn't coherent in any sense of the word.

I live within walking distance of the Canadian border. Believe me, our hospitals are not full of sick Canadians who cannot get care because of the far right's beloved "waiting lists." In fact, there are quite a few of us cranky Yanks who go over there for cheaper care (especially dental)...we have to pay for it, but it's worlds cheaper because the rates are regulated, unlike the "free market" bullshit we keep being told is so wonderful.

A college friend of mine told me that when he was touring in Europe as a musician, he was in the Netherlands and copped a case of food poisoning. He was taken to the nearest ER where he was seen by an English-speaking doctor immediately, written a prescription that he filled in the hospital pharmacy and went on his way. There was no charge for the hospital visit, despite the fact that he was neither Dutch nor a Netherlands resident. The prescription cost was quite minimal.

Until we get over the FICTION in this country that health care is just another commodity to be bought and sold, nothing will change.

Unfortunately, I don't think anything will move in that direction unless there is a large-scale popular revolt, meaning:

People stop paying medical bills en masse.

If that were to happen, there would be no way already-overworked courts could keep up with the overload.

The non-system would collapse, as it's needed to for a long time.

[burnsei sensei]

96. For years, mass indebtedness

among consumers has been a means of protest.
If the cost of living is too high, then some debt is inevitable.
If the cost of medical care is prohibitive you have two choices other than indebtedness:
1. don't get sick and
2. if you do get sick, die quickly. This is the wisdom of Alan Grayson.
He gives a damn about people.

[jambo101]

94. Medical anarchy.

Heres an article outlining the healthcare's main focus and why.

[link:http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/83046-for-a-3-hour-hospital-visit-why-are-hospital-bills-so-outrageous|

[sendero]

98. All I can offer is..

... a hell yeah, and a valentine heart for just your cool name, Glamrock.

My wife has some serious health issues (transplant patient) so we're well familiar with how things go. To be honest, here in the Dallas area we've generally gotten good care with some exceptions - generally that doctors all think their time is all valuable and that the patient has infinite time to waste.

Those wrist breakages in older women (wife did that one too) can have some long term fallout that is not obvious to most people. Be sure to get her some good PT.

[Ganja Ninja]

100. Every time I go to the doctor I'm afraid to say anything.

Even the slightest complaint brings on hundreds if not thousands of dollars worth of tests. Tests that usually prove nothing or tell you what you already know. And once you're done with the testing you can't afford the treatment. It's fucking lunacy.

[burnsei sensei]

101. ditto

nt