To Conservatives: I do not want kids, so get over it!!!!!

[Lady Freedom Returns]

I have had it with people putting their nose in the fact that, at almost 35, I don't have kids. Most of them are conservative Christians that seem to think that I am something terrible for not "Giving my husband a child". It is so nice sitting pool side and have Neighbors come up trying to convince me that I should have kids. When did this start becoming such an issue with people, I have no idea. Now I am use to people looking at me odd. I am use to some scrutiny about it by the major religious. But litterly try to do an intervention????

Then I started to see something interesting happening. There is much coming out about how bad the lower births will hurt economically. Latest book on this is "What to Expect When No One's Expecting", by Jonathan V. Last. And it is added to the dumb scare tactics like the one HockeyMom found and posted ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022316728 ) . I see that the anti-choice is moving in a new direction.

So, if my mind is going in the right direction, my want to not have kids with my husband is now not only un-Christian, it is anti-economy. I am expecting soon to be called un-American due to it. What happen to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Well guess what? I am NOT going to have kids. I will not stop enjoying my husband either. The anti-choice can try whatever they want to push their thinking, but I will not do it! Call me a future wrecker, an anti-American (as if I never heard that before), and try to outlaw whatever you want, it will not happen.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

1. People don't have social support, enough income, or social safety net.

No paid pregnancy leave, state run child care, maternity and paternity leave after the child is born, no paid sick time, nursing care with in home nursing visits to check the baby, etc., etc..........

Both parents have to work to pay the bills, child care is expensive, no universal health insurance, etc.......

If you don't want kids, just tell them you go to the church of Our Lady of None of Your Goddamned Business.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

4. The idea that women like me are going to hurt the economy in the future is...

Stupid.

We have so many still without, and people that needs two jobs, that I don't think the manufacturing people will really hurt. Add the new robot technologies, I really don't see a problem.

The church goers are easy to handle. Just wear a large pentacle and they run away!

[Sekhmets Daughter]

41. You don't see a problem because

you haven't been following the immigration debate. Americans, like most of the industrial nations, are not producing enough future workers to support them in their old age...in other words there will not be enough working Americans paying FICA taxes to cover the costs of SS. Immigration helps alleviate that problem. However, The Chinese policy of one child per family is already having adverse effects there...they won't have enough workers to keep their economy going...and will, no doubt, begin to actively promote immigration...so perhaps we shouldn't count on immigration being the permanent solution.

Far be it from me to tell anyone who doesn't want children, to have them...but you need to re-frame your argument as this one is uninformed and incorrect.

Oh yes, I used to tell the old busy bodies I was waiting to have a "change-of life" baby...they would gasp and change the subject. (We were married 8 years before we had our first child)

[DaveJ]

65. I agree with LFR

I understand money, and I understand it enough to know that the monetary system was created be people, and it can be changed by people. LFR is right, there is automation that has replaced the need for a massive labor force. And technology will only increase in efficiency in the coming years. Currently we have people working frivolous jobs just to keep the economy going -- that's silly.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

70. Tell me more about these "frivolous" jobs....

What are they? Where are they? Why don't we have enough of them to be at full employment?

[DaveJ]

75. We have so many unemployed because there are not enough jobs that are needed.

I guess we just have opposite ways of looking at the situation. Many jobs are artistic in nature and while I love art, these are non essential jobs. We have 10,000 types of coffee mugs to chose from, for instance. That's nice, but not really essential.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

76. I am going to pretend I never asked. n/t

[FrodosPet]

111. What is, "Who wants to change old people's diapers?"

Been there, done that, I'll take "Things I would rather starve to death than EVER do again" for $2000, Alex

[Sekhmets Daughter]

113. That's a "frivolous" job?

[maddiemom]

96. Oh, and how about after you've decided to have a child? A short pause and

then "they" are bugging you about having an "only child"? One neighbor actually said "if anything ever happens and you don't have another kid?"... WTF? This was thirty-five years ago for me, so I doubt if this is an issue these days.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

100. I know...

as if one child can actually replace another. (I think that stupid notion comes from the story of Job) I am always amazed at what people think they have a right to comment upon or question.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

101. I agree with the OP, and I know about the points you make. Nevertheless, it is not my

job, nor any particular woman's job to make babies for the reasons you present. And the fact that this crap comes so often from the Freedom Fighter crowd makes it all the more infuriating.

Keep your nose out of my womb, all of you.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

106. I specifically said I was not telling her to have babies....

I think she would be better served by simply saying "it's none of your business"

Go pick a fight with someone who actually thinks the poster should be breeding like a rabbit.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

115. She already had noted that she had heard the arguments, yet you reiterated them and

said, "but you need to re-frame your argument as this one is uninformed and incorrect." Talk about picking a fight.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

118. And you can't see the distinction

between a faulty argument and a faulty decision? That's not my problem.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

119. LOL. You're hilarious.

[KakistocracyHater]

152. I'd read Millenials are nearly equal in # to Boomers

I wouldn't worry about personal birth rates but more about middle class job creation

[jeff47]

91. It's not "women like you"

It's most women.

We need 2.1 kids per woman to maintain a constant population (2 to replace each parent, and 0.1 to cover people who die early or are infertile)

That means any woman having less than 2 kids is "the problem", and 1 in ten women have to have 3 kids. So there's a lot more women for these freaks to blame than just those who have no kids.

However, there's several advanced countries that have had less than 2.1 kids per woman for a while now. They haven't imploded in economic ruin. Which kinda damages the argument coming from these idiots.

ETA: I recommend bursting into tears when they pressure you, shouting "I've tried so hard, but I'm barren! Barren! <sob> <sob>". Their reactions should be entertaining.

[hatrack]

142. Nah, they'd just fall on their knees in public and demand that God Heal! HEAL! you . . . .

Highly embarassing . . .

[davidpdx]

148. China, South Korea and Japan are all having a much greater problem then the US

According to the World Factbook the US is 146th in terms of the birth rate. China is 158, South Korea is 215, and Japan is 216.

People can be pretty nosy. The barren comment reminds me of the episode of Will & Grace where they went looking for houses and Grace told Will not to say she was barren, and Will told her not to tell people he had a low sperm count.

[yellerpup]

11. +1!

Thanks for recommending my church!

[Lady Freedom Returns]

14. I have heard great reviews!

I will have to check it out!

[yellerpup]

19. It answers all questions

with....None of your business! So much for the metaphysical aspect.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

108. Best answer award!

The fact that anyone should feel they owe more to some busybodies annoys me to no end. I don't care what reasons others have for wanting me to have children. I will if I choose or I won't if I choose not to.

You'd better be a very close friend or family member to even dare bring up the subject to me, and even then, if I say I don't care to discuss it or justify my decision to you, you'd better just drop it or our relationship is in serous danger of extinction.

[hlthe2b]

2. I always launched into a spiel about my four-legged furry children and how lucky I am &

advantageous these children are (with their unconditional love, their desire only to please and love me, and the fact I'd never have to bail them out of jail, repair the totaled car I'd lent them, have them throw away my life savings spent on their college education while bar hopping and flunking out semester after semester, see them suffer at the hands of an abusive spouse/boyfriend, nor have them play out the frustrations of their lives on me)....




Kids are fine--I don't dislike children at all-- but those who are determined to "convert" the childless are in the same category as door-to-door RW evangelicals, IMO (and equally as welcome).

[A HERETIC I AM]

32. My dog used to borrow my damned car all the time. n/t

[hlthe2b]

35. But did he wreck it?

My little girl always filled mine up with gas after a midnight romp.... Show me one two-legged teen that would do THAT!

[A HERETIC I AM]

46. No, but the little fucker thought it was funny to dress up and drive around on holidays....

Just to mess with people.



Christmas, for example:







And New years






.
.
.
.
Then there was Easter








He just thought he was too cool.

[hlthe2b]

134. heh heh...

[davidpdx]

150. Cute

He doesn't seem to mind it very much. I bet if you put a dress on him though he'd be mad.

[A HERETIC I AM]

155. The late, great Mr. Beau Brummel (BB) was incredibly patient.....

loved kids, loved to play and was the most gregarious animal I ever knew.

He didn't have a mean bone in his body.


I miss him every day

[davidpdx]

157. Sorry to hear he's not around anymore

I've got a cat I can send you though. He drives me up the wall.

[A HERETIC I AM]

158. Will it wear hats? n/t

[davidpdx]

160. No, he misbehaves

Even when we go to trim his nails he is uncooperative. He yowls in the middle of the night too.

[A HERETIC I AM]

161. Keep him

The most Mr. BB would do at night was snore!

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. We have a full fledged teen.

She will never beg for the keys!!!!

Nor go to college.

Yours are furry, mine are covered in feathers.

[hlthe2b]

133. aww, the purfect children......

whether fur-covered or feathered--purfect!

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. As soon as I cook the steak

I expect them to demand for streak though.

[davidpdx]

149. Dogs or Cats?

I hear you about them being a lot easier. I have a cat though that is extremely aggressive and he bites. Not exactly sure if it's because he's a male or it's his personality.

[stuntcat]

3. NO woman should be made to give the rest of this century to her child.

I will not make a little copy of myself for her to have to watch her species drive thousands of animals to extinction. Then when she's my age she'd probably be pressured to give the NEXT 90 years to her child, no matter how much worse things are then. No, this century is no gift to the babies being made now.
If the fact that we've quadrupled in half a century, wrecking the entire natural world doesn't make people consider that our species is acting as a sick virus to ALL the rest of the life here, then all that explains that is religion, or whatever else it is that convinces any species that it is The Greatest and making copies of itself is the only way to prove it.

It gives me nothing but shame that people think we have to make copies of ourselves.. "carry-on" someone's incredible bloodline, into Hell.. I'm sorry but No. I've suffered enough abuse over not making a baby to assure me, *I am doing what is right. My own relatives have told me I should die. And I'm supposed to think the one saying that to me is the one who's got it right?

I feel better every single day for not giving this to my own girl, no matter how much hate it brings on me.

[Squinch]

126. I am so sorry that your relatives are so awful to you about this.

And I agree that a whole lot less of us humans on the earth would do wonders for quality of life.

[stuntcat]

162. .

Thank you so much. I feel very alone here with this and their pressure and comments to me eat me alive every day. I have strength knowing I'm doing right though, and I'll need it because I know they're going to get worse and worse.. their friends are being dicks to me if they catch me out by myself. It's terrible.
And the comments in this thread make me wonder.. I've assumed the problem was all about the "family line" crap but what if it has something to do with race and being American too? I was supposed to make strong and smart little white kids like my neighbors are doing.

[Squinch]

163. Oh, boy. They sound like psychos.

Here's the thing: you have made a choice. It is based on sound reasoning, and it sounds as if you feel it is right for you. And guess what? That means IT IS. There is no one else who can make that choice for you, and no one else who has the right to judge the choices you make with your life.

If this is your family, and they are doing things that eat you alive every day, and if they have encouraged their acquaintances to judge you and treat you badly too, you need to think about that.

I have had the experience of having to walk away from a member of my family because she was simply and eternally abusive to me. It is difficult, and feels very unnatural, but in the end it was one of the best things I ever did. Through the years I tried to keep our relationship going because I kept telling myself, "it's family." But in submitting to her behavior, I was supporting her view of me, rather than my own. When I let her go, it was very strange for a while, but then it was as if I had a boulder taken off my shoulders.

It doesn't matter why they are doing this. It doesn't matter what they expected of you or why they are giving you a hard time about this. All you need to know is that they are not accepting your decision about how you are going to live your life. They don't get to do that.

Walk away from them. For the next few weeks, limit their access to you as much as you can and see how you feel. And know that no one but you gets to have an opinion about how you live your life.

Good luck!

[Cirque du So-What]

5. Our brains have evolved to the extent

that we (meaning humans in general, not specific RW fundies) have the capacity to understand that procreation on the part of every able-bodied person is not necessary for preservation of the species. Beginning with agriculture, humans gained the ability to specialize in activities other than hunting/gathering, through the industrial revolution with labor specialties, to modern society, where having children *SHOULD* be considered an option instead of a reason for RW fundamentalist scolds to cluck their tongues in disapproval.

[HockeyMom]

6. "Your right to not have children trumps my right to be a Grandma"

My Mom said that to me on my wedding day in 1974. I am an Only Child, by choice, and I am sure my Mom had busy bodies blasting her for that back in the 1950s. Personally, I LIKED being an "only".

My husband and I decided on 2 kids before we married, and after those 2 he had a vasectomy. We also had 2 GIRLS, so we heard all the time, "When are you going to try for a BOY????" We told them no more. We had the TWO kids, we wanted, and could care less what their GENDERS are. You have to be BLUNT with them. YOUR choice, your business, and NOBODY ELSES BUSINESS, including your own family members.

I am also a former Catholic and actually had to defend my own parents for their CHOICE in Catholic school. What people do in their bedrooms, their choice of family size, contraception, abortion, sexual orientation, etc., is nobody else's business, including POLITICIANS, and RELIGION. In a free society, we don't make babies for the Fatherland. That is what this makes me think of.

As a woman, and a mother, I would defend whatever choice you make for yourself.

[Jamaal510]

7. I don't blame you; having children is expensive,

time-consuming, and an 18+ year responsibility. So many couples have children because they're bored and feel like they need more on their plate, but that is foolish. If you and your fiancé are bored with your intimate life, why not go out and find a hobby together or join a club? It's not only cheaper, but it also helps solve the problem regarding overpopulation. And I'm a Christian, but I really doubt that God would care whether or not one has children. I think the main things he wants people to do (which the Religious-Right conveniently forgets) is to be respectful of others, to develop integrity, live and let live, and to show compassion for the less-fortunate.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

10. And now they are starting in on fear of non population.

Afraid that the economy will suffer due to no workers.

I really don't see that happening due to the large populations overseas and robotics. But that is going to be the new fight point for those that want everyone to have kids.

I guess that with so many people not listening to the Religious-Right so much they got to do something.

[Squinch]

38. Hang in there. I have always found that, if you scratch the surface with these people,

9 times out of 10 they are saying it because they are wishing they had your life.

Those who are happy with their own choice to have children don't seem to need to toss judgment at those of us who have chosen not to.

The comments always seemed to me to be an indication that I was dealing with someone who wished she had opted out of motherhood as I had.

[lastlib]

55. or that you had theirs...........

[Squinch]

57. Or that anyone had theirs so they could get the hell out of it!

[meeshrox]

59. I agree!

It seems that there is a tinge of jealousy when some ladies respond to me by saying that I'll change my mind some day. I think that some women are resentful that I realized I had the choice before I had any kids. It's as if they realized that when it was too late for them.

[Squinch]

69. I remember one time:

I had a colleague who was a fundie. I am about 15 years older than she is so she was always asking me why I didn't have children, and telling me I should hurry up and have them.

She got married, and had two kids really quickly. Both were hand fulls.

One Friday, as I got ready to go out to a new restaurant, and she was getting ready to go to her daycare to pick up her kids, she looked at me and started crying. She said, "You must have such a nice life. I used to have that life, and I can't get it back."

[meeshrox]

122. Wow, what can you say to that?

I was almost in her boat, but I broke off the engagement just before the wedding. I knew I had a better future than to be a fundie baby-maker. I can't imagine my life with that man and his 8 kids (that's how many he wanted).

[Squinch]

125. It kind of broke my heart for her. Because she was actually a well meaning person, and

she was right. She could not undo her decision.

You did the right thing. I have nothing against large families - my family of origin is very large. But when it is all about the fundamentalist religion, the woman is absolutely going to get the shaft in that deal. No pun intended.

[Populist_Prole]

82. Bingo. I get static all the time from married co-workers for still being single

As you say, scratch the surface and I see much jealousy and bitterness in many of them. Some are outright damn near hostile toward me for my desire to just "do my eight and hit the gate" ( not work overtime ) because they need the extra income just to get by, but in reality they spend too much money ( and too little time ) trying to be superdads.

[Squinch]

87. It gets clearer as you get older. Once your contemporaries start hitting the

years in their late forties and early fifties, marraiges are stressed and often break, and some kids become constant heartaches. At that point it becomes clearer to everyone that, though some people WERE meant to be married and raise children, there are a lot of married people with children who were not meant to have that life. The good news is that at that point, people stop giving you static, and try to be more like you.

[Populist_Prole]

97. Or they become thoroughly broken of spirit

I've heard on several occassions by people whose kids have grown and left the house that they want to, or even should start "living a little again" ( hobbies, travel etc ) but say they're so used to not having time for themselves for so long that they just don't know how to live just for the pupose of enjoyment.

[Squinch]

105. That always makes me feel badly for them. But it also seems to me that living a life without

doing anything for your own enjoyment, and saying it was because you were too busy with the kids, is not a good example for the kids. It tells the kids that they are intrinsically more important than the parents (which isn't true) and that personal fulfillment is somehow selfish.

That said, I DON'T have kids, so I could be completely talking out of my butt here.

[pipi_k]

8. I am not a nice person

OK, if I were in your shoes and were completely and totally sick of people sticking their noses into my personal decision not to have children, I would have some sort of horror story ready for the next one who dared to try it.

Something along the lines of...

"I'm so sorry...I had four (five, six, whatever) miscarriages and am unable to have children. Maybe you'd like to volunteer your uterus/your wife's uterus so that I can finally have the five children I've always wanted..."

Or something similar.

This is such a personal issue. I love embarrassing assholes who don't get it.


PS...my youngest stepdaughter and her husband did have two miscarriages in the space of a year and a half. It makes me absolutely sick to think that some dimwit would hurt them even more by demanding to know why they don't have kids.

[hamsterjill]

9. Good for you!

You owe NO ONE an explanation of the way you choose to live your life.

Thus far, my 30-year old daughter and her husband have opted not to have a child yet after several years of marriage I will have no problem if that decision is permanent. And I get some of the same form of grief from people (certainly not as personally intrusive as your situation, but along the same lines) asking why I'm not just dying to be a grandmother.

[Earth_First]

12. My father is extremely upset with us over this...

He is exactly the type you describe, a Christian social-conservative who feels the need to intervene into our family planning with HIS idea of how our household should be in order; according to "god".

We are 33 and 34, we're pretty much at the end of our biological means to have a child without the risk of complications both to mom and child; and honestly given the current geopolitical and social climate, we're almost certain WE made that right decision anyways...

My father is just getting to terms that the two of us have been living together for 10 years and finally getting married, lol.

Sorry Dad, T.S.

[Iris]

78. I don't think you're at the end of your biological means. But certainly, if you don't want kids,

don't have them. Now or 5 years from now.

[SWTORFanatic]

81. My mother was 35 when I was born, and 37 when my brother was born. Not even

close to biological clock.

That said, if you don't want kids don't have them. I don't have any and don't want them either.

[jeff47]

94. You're not "at the end".

Yes, the risks of a problem go up, but they're still fairly low for quite a while. So you're dad still has plenty of time to nag.

[galileoreloaded]

137. Very responsible, good on ya.

[madokie]

13. I'm 64, damn near 65 yo

and all my life I've wanted to be what i am a step father. Even though I'm a step father I do have a Grand Daughter who I love and who loves me unconditionally. Everyone says wow, she sure does like her papa. I grin and say yes and I love her too

[Zoeisright]

15. I love that "selfish" meme.

The people I know who had kids are the selfish ones. One woman, whose mother had Huntington's disease, had kids AFTER the diagnosis even though doctors (and the Huntington society) told her NOT to. Now she's showing signs of the disease and her kids are getting married.

She wanted "her own" children.

Now THAT is selfish.

[MineralMan]

16. Ironically, the last person to pull that old crap on me

is raising the rottenest kid I've ever known. She doesn't ever correct her child, and laughs when he insults people in public. At this point, he's 15 years old, and there is little to no hope that he will not continue to be a racist and a general bigot who has no control over his speech or actions.

And yet, she keeps haranguing me about being childless. I'm 67 years old, and made the decision to eschew reproduction in 1965, when I was 20 years old. I've been hearing people I don't respect telling me that I've wasted my life ever since.

I no longer listen.

[Ilsa]

20. If you see her again,

Show her your post.

[MineralMan]

24. It would do no good at all.

Kids without boundaries are a nightmare. Kids without boundaries and raised by bigots and racists are a global nightmare.

[Fuddnik]

31. But, properly cooked, some kids are OK.

I'm 61 now, and made the decision in my late 20's that I didn't want kids. And I got a vasectomy to make sure.

[MineralMan]

39. As W.C. Fields said:

"Go away, kid. You bother me."

[Warpy]

42. I'm not as nice as you are.

I'd have told them that I'd wanted kids, but Whatshisname discouraged me from it forever.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

52. I'd like to meet this kid

If he thinks he's such an insult artist, I'd have both him and his ignorant momma crying in about three minutes.

[athena]

17. You're pro-environment

and future generations will benefit from your thoughtfulness in not having children. The environment is the main reason I chose not to have children.

[LeftinOH]

18. George Washington, "the Father of our country", had no children-

-maybe that will shut them up?

[Lady Freedom Returns]

21. With this new kick starting about the fear of not having enough workers in the future,

I don't think anything will really do it. Save for telling then to take a hike. Mind you, it takes forever for them to get the idea.

[Moonwalk]

71. Washington wasn't fertile--Martha came to the marriage with two kids...

...who survived out of four, a son and daughter. Alas the daughter had epilepsy and died in her teens. Very sad! So it's not quite the same. Washington wanted to have kids, but couldn't. These people are haranguing those of us who could have kids but choose not to--and granted, probably also annoying those who want kids but can't have them and shame on them for that, too.

[Brigid]

89. Washington had smallpox as a young man,

Hence the absence of kids.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. We decided on cats. Cheaper and easier to train.

[maddiemom]

99. Amen

[meeshrox]

23. I get that constantly...

from my mother, aunt, total strangers, and even my GYN! The strangers tell me that I'll change my mind someday. Maybe they are right, but it's really none of their fucking business. I like being a young professional without the burden (yes, I said it) of having children. In my mind, that's what my own kids would be: a burden. I'm not the motherly type and I don't want to be. I have no maternal aspirations.

I like having disposable income (and very lucky to have it, I will admit) because I'm not paying for a child's daycare, school supplies, clothes, health insurance, toys, and college fund. I like having the freedom to go see a movie with my hubby or taking off for a long weekend when I feel like it. The four-legged kiddos (3 cats) will be just fine with extra food and water. Can't say the same with children, thank you very much.

A few of my friends even admitted to me that they should have thought that whole motherhood thing through and not been swayed by dear-mother's pressure to make her a grandma. It was just the next step, marriage then babies. My mother was recently informed that her wishes will not affect my decision, period. It's up to me and my husband and no one else. I don't need a reminder that my clock is ticking, mother nature does that for me monthly.

Short answer: I agree! All the power to you and every other lady here for making the decision (in either direction) for herself!

[a la izquierda]

25. I am 35 and have no plans on kids...

My RW family constantly asks how I can deny my husband children.
They do not like my reaction.

[hughee99]

26. I have two children but completely support your choice...

When the world starts running out of people, then we can start worrying about NEED for procreation.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

29. Odd part is that the running out of people thing seems to be the reason..

for this latest "everyone needs kids" kick. Apparently new info has show less people being born and someone has decided that the economy can not take the loss. Thus the new argument for the anti choice. There are times when I think that the right had people they use to just dream up things to annoy me and others like me.

[hughee99]

37. Funny, on the one hand you have fundies talking about the need for more people

and on the other, they're complaining about immigrants.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

53. THAT's the rub here

They want the RIGHT people having kids.

[Jamastiene]

132. Yup. You are understanding them correctly.

That is EXACTLY how they think. You got their number.

[hatrack]

86. More fundamentalist white people, that is - southern, if at all possible

That's the issue, when you get right down to it - "They're outbreeding us! The world is (gasp) changing!"

[pstokely]

146. Their problem is not enough WAPS being born

They aren't complaining about about a lack of black or brown babies being born

[eShirl]

27. If we really needed more workers we could always make it easier to legally immigrate to here.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

33. That is what I thought, but then again right wing dumbness can't look at that.n/t

[livetohike]

28. Hang in there. I'm 60 and still get questions like, "Why didn't you have children?" To which

I smile sweetly and say, "Why did you?"

I didn't have them because I didn't want them. No excuses, although I am an environmentalist and try to tread lightly....the main reason is that I did not want to be a Mother and have the responsibility of caring for children.

I never regretted my decision and am really puzzled by those who have children and are so interested in why I do not, as if it was something to be studied.

[winter is coming]

36. That's when I want to say, "Oh, they're in the backyard.

Under those rosebushes."

on edit: I do have a child, which means I get a lot of crap about having an only child.

[livetohike]

40. LOL....good one. Several of my friends have one child

and yeah, they get that same crap....people are so rude.

[amb123]

30. But, but, but

"YOU'RE REJECTING GOD'S PRECIOUS GIFT OF LIFE AND CONDEMNING THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE TO TOTAL EXTINCTION!!! AAAAGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!"

I can hear those Fundys squeal.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

45. What is bad is the intervention session that a couple of old ladies did.

The best reception for internet here at my apartment complex is poolside. I was there filling out applications and playing on DU. Here comes two old ladies that everyone told me are very religious and I did my best to avoid.

Apparently word got to them about a married couple for 10 years did not have kids. Anytime anyone has ever asked me I always said flat out that I don't want them. Well these ladies wanted to help me see the error of my ways this last Sunday. Here I was trying to get away and none to help. The apartment manager saw I was trapped and ran, yes ran, the other way.

I can look back at it as funny now. But at the time it was not. But one thing that stuck. The line about how we "need more people because we are running out". I could not get that around my head till watching CBS This Morning show today. The Author for the book I mentioned in the OP was on. Then started looking around and found that this subject is gaining ground.

Between the scare tactics and this, the anti choice, religious right, and the just plain busy bodies, I will need a lot of headache meds!

[amb123]

51. You & me both!

[Squinch]

128. To which I would be tempted to answer, "Yep." And then smile broadly.

[winter is coming]

34. I've never understood this.

What do these people hope to accomplish? To bully someone into having children they don't want? Sounds like a recipe for a miserable family.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

61. I wish I knew.

I don't care if people have kids or not. I just want the RW fuddies to let me live my life.

And it is the right wings doing all the pushing. Most don't care one way or the other. It is the Conservatives that do the bullying. Like there is nothing better to work for that for everyone to have kids.

[winter is coming]

85. Ironically enough, the people I've encountered like this appear to be crappy parents. n/t

[pstokely]

147. Their doing the lords work by bulling someone into having babies

and if the kids starve to death because of a lack of a social safety net that's the lords will

[catbyte]

43. I lack the maternal gene also, which is fortunate because I had monster endometriosis starting at

age 15, so I probably couldn't have had kids anyway. It was further confirmed that I was not built for kids when I was finally old enough for the doctors to agree to a hysterectomy--which still pisses me off 10 years later that they didn't trust me enough to know I did not want children--they discovered I couldn't have a vaginal hysterectomy which would have reduced my recovery time a good 3 weeks because my cervix was too small for the operation. It's the same paternalistic bullshit that's fueling the anti-abortion cretins--we weak-willed ladies don't know what we want and can't be trusted. It definitely would've been c-section city if I reproduced. I look at it like I'm doing my bit for the planet to make up for freaks like the Duggars who insist on catastrophically large broods.

I'll stick to cats thank you very much!

[SheilaT]

44. As someone who always wanted kids,

and had two sons whom I adore and are now grown, I'm made crazy by the idea (which to me is implicit in the "Why don't you have kids" crap) that somehow there's a war going on between those who have kids and those who don't. No, there isn't. There are different ways to go through life. Some of them involve children. Some don't.

I also understand how nice life can be without kids, since I was 34 when I had my first one, so I had over a decade of being an adult and on my own and could do what I more or less wanted.

Oh, and even though I would love to have grandchildren, I have already told my sons that they are under no obligation to reproduce just for me.

[DFW]

47. Just tell them Ann Coulter is your role model

Well, except for the foul mouth and all...........

[RoccoR5955]

48. Good for you!

I am 57 and you can thank me for not reproducing.
Besides, who wants to bring up kids to be slaves for the corporations? Besides they add to the food supply, and the supply of human pollution on the planet.

The best I can do is to educate people, and if they want kids, have only one maybe, but there are far too many people on our planet, and we have to start cutting the population, or there will be no place for them. We also have to consider the environment. With oceans being over-fished, GMOs, and the amount of pollution needed for transportation here on our one and only planet, we have to care for it more than care for children.

Again, you can thank me for not reproducing.

[LibertyLover]

49. Your life, your choice

While I did not have a child with my husband, I am a mother through adoption. For us to have had a child would have taken massive medical intervention, a lot of good luck, pots of money and a very big side of magic thrown in for good measure. It would have been nice to have had a biologic child, but it wasn't in the cards this life and, honestly, my daughter is the light of my life, about whom I would change nothing (well, except maybe for the flute practicing in the afternoons).

What pisses me off is how many people come up to us and ask if we know our daughter is not the same race as we are. Like a 10 year old child doesn't understand what they are saying. No, she isn't blonde haired and blue-eyed. She has lovely long, straight brown hair and sparkling, intelligent brown eyes.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

56. That's disgusting

Are they that ignorant to have never heard of adoption, or is too much for them to handle that someone decided to adopt a child not based on race?

[wildeyed]

102. A friend of mine is white, married to an Asian American.

They have two kids. People are forever coming up to her and telling her what a good person she is to adopt two Asian babies. And then she gets to tell them that they are her bio-kids

Seriously, so rude. Dunno why people think any of this is their business.

[laundry_queen]

138. My aunt gets that

Her husband was (I say was because he tragically died a few years ago) of east Indian decent and was quite dark. My aunt is like me - quite pale. Their kids totally took after their dad. She always gets asked what country she adopted them from.

[felix_numinous]

50. This is one (of many) aspect of the sexual revolution

that got damaged after the conservative movement of the 80s. I grew up during the 60s and 70s, my parents didn't pressure me to be a parent, and society was in a non-conformist phase then. I don't think many people imagined the conservative backlash that followed.

I was lucky to grow up then and in my family. But my parents were actually Republicans and had their own religion, but were ADULT enough to let us make our own decisions when we grew up. I never felt the parenting instinct either and did not have kids, but am very glad to see happy parents and kids.

The neo-conservative movement dumbed down the country, the news, the schools, movies, games and the way politicians communicated to the public was as if they wanted to keep people in a state of arrested development. And they succeeded with a large portion of the country. We are seeing the results today, there are too many unhappy families who never had the chance to make informed decisions about parenting.

Living one's life authentically should not be a radical idea--it should be the mainstream.

Cheers Lady Freedom Returns, thanks for sharing your story

[Yavin4]

66. I Grew Up In The Same Era As You Did. We all wanted to be independent and free.

Look at the pop culture back then. You never saw Mary Richards complaining about not being married or having kids. We all wanted to be on our own living life the way we wanted to.

And you're also right about the conservative backlash of the 1980s. Since then, we've all become conformists. We have to have kids because it's a sign of maturity and achievement. People without kids are immature and selfish. It's ridiculous.

People back in the 60s and 70s all thought that we were re-inventing a new world. None of us saw this coming.

[bluestateguy]

54. I'm sure the stigma you speak of is worse for women than for men.

But with that said, as a single man in my mid-30's, I get some of what you are experiencing too. You are made to feel as a more and more of a social leper the older you get as single, childless adult.

Having kids is not really a priority for me. Unless I can marry a woman I love AND we make a lot of money. No way I will raise a child in poverty given how this country treats the poor.

[Populist_Prole]

93. I sometimes on the receiving end of the stigma of being single, some people are real A-holes

I've sensed that I'm being treated with much less respect by some people when they know I'm unmarried; They'll use words and tones toward me they'd never use toward another adult.

[bluestateguy]

103. Like being talked down to like you are a child or a teenager

I get that.

Little do those folks know that I am gainfully employed and have my own house.

[Populist_Prole]

110. Exactly

Mostly I try to grin and bear it out so as not to make a scene, when I get fed up I'll rebut bluntly, usually along the lines of "I understand ( whatever point or complaint they're trying to make ) but just who the f&%#* do you think you're talking to!!??"

[Joe Shlabotnik]

58. Not having kids is the responsible choice.

Blaming the childless for future economic woes is irresponsible. We have an economy that must always grow in order to function yet we have limited resources on this planet. Previous generations didn't understand these limitations. When as a society, you are in a hole, stop digging. Instead we should be helping each other to climb out of this hole and pledging to never do something so globally irresponsible again.

[Moonwalk]

60. Hurt the economy? Are these the same people who don't want illegal immigrants made citizens...?

...if we need more people to maintain the economy, there are plenty of immigrants who want to get in and keep the population numbers up.

Next time they bug you with this, ask them their opinion on immigration and why they're against it if the population and economy are going down.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

79. Yep, same ones.

The way they seem to make it work in there strange little minds is "America for Americans".

I look and see people needing work and some needs two jobs just to survive due to less than living wages. I also see people begging and risking death just to set foot in this country. So why do I need to add to the population.

[dballance]

62. I Suppose Those People Missed the International Reports about Overpopulation of the Earth?

And how that was leading us to depleting our resources to a point we would start having massive die-offs of humans due to starvation?

Of course the latest reports I've read say don't worry about overpopulation now. Since almost no governments want to do something meaningful about climate change it's more likely to cause the starvation and lack of potable water long before overpopulation.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

92. They must have.

All one hears from this new argument is the need for the population to keep the economy going.

This is just really catching on so I will be stockpiling aspirin.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

63. Conformity

It's not even conservatives only anymore, there are pretty progressive couples that drive a Prius and shop organic only and all that who still feel the need quiz you as to why you won't have kids. A good friend of mine and his wife got into a virtual shouting match at a party I went to last summer with a couple of "open-minded" people who thought having kids was their duty as a married couple.

[tularetom]

64. If you change your mind you can have mine

Of course they are 46 and 49 years old, but I think they have finally reached adulthood. Even though the 49 year old is a grandmother and the other one is about to become an empty nester.

We've bailed them out financially on several occasions, we even took our daughter in (with kids) when she and husband split up a couple of times and we acted as unpaid child care providers many times when we would have far rather done something else.

They both have steady jobs and stable families now, but it sure as hell wasn't always that way. Looking back I think my wife would choose a different path if she knew what was in store for her. And she was a far better mother than I was a father.

Our kids were never in trouble with the law they weren't lazy or spoiled. They were relatively normal kids who had problems transitioning into adulthood.

My point is you will never hear me bad mouthing any woman who has chosen not to have children.

[plethoro]

68. You are making a wise decision. My daughter, 42, made the same one. When my

wife and I had our daughter we began to see things that made us decide not to have more kids. I'll not say more. Anyway, good luck to you.

[DaveJ]

72. Until they find a cure for death, why have a kid?

It's just going to die eventually anyway. What a horrible state of existence knowing you're going to die. Why bring a kid into that? Why bother?

If they do find a cure for death or extend life to several hundred years, well then there's plenty of time to think about it.

[Flying Squirrel]

73. They ought to be happy about it....

After all, that's one less child who might grow up to be a Democratic voter!

[Nye Bevan]

74. It's really nobody's business. I don't criticize people for having zero kids,

and I also don't criticize people like the Duggars for choosing to have 12 kids.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

84. I us to think that too.

But for some reason, there are people out there that thinks it is.

If you have the patience to be a parent, great! If not, I totally understand because I know I don't.

Yet here are these strange people that just can't get that choice through there heads. Thy seem to think it is some sort of duty that you must do. I really don't get it.

[BlueJazz]

80. I'd rather have this Kid. >>

[OldHippieChick]

83. Thanks for the not-so-gentle

reminder to keep my mouth shut after my son gets married.

[Brigid]

88. Because I have Turner's Syndrome, I couldn't have kids.

I used to be sad about it, but for some time now I have considered myself fortunate. I have nieces and nephews, and two kids with four feet who go "meow.". That is enough. My nieces and nephews are growing up in a world where transitioning into adulthood will.be extremely difficult; I really wouldn't want to watch kids of my own dealing with that.

[Taverner]

90. Only people who want kids should have kids

Back when I was a young homophobic "yout" in the 80s, I still believed gay couples should adopt because, hey - they actually wanted their kids.

Too many friends of mine made the mistake of having their unplanned pregnancy, and later seriously regretting it.

And if you never want kids DON'T HAVE THEM!!!

Jeez, how do some people not get that?

[Lady Freedom Returns]

95. I know! Simple idea.

Yet there they are. Those that have made it there mission for god only knows why, to press the "need" for women to have kids.

I don't get it.

[Warren DeMontague]

98. It's a choice, and not a choice that should be made lightly.

Last thing in the world I would ever do is encourage someone who doesn't want kids, to have them.

Every child should be wanted, and loved IMHO.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

104. That is what I always though.

I have never wanted to be a mom. I never even played house as a girl. I don't know why, but I never had any interest in the whole thing of family life.

I knew at a young age that I was not going to be a mom. Yet, when my dad figured this out, the church cognation figured it out, I was bombarded with how unnatural it was. I was lucky to have a mom that believed in everyone doing their own thing. So she put her foot down to the largest part of the bullying.

I grew up, found a SO that understood. And I have been happy. Now out of the blue, here is this sudden interest by people I don't know putting their nose in my business.

I believe in eveyone doing their own thing, just like my mom taught me. Want kids, great! Don't want them, I understand. But to pressure people about it...

This keeps building momentum, we are going to hear a lot more.

[Warren DeMontague]

109. I'm fortunate to live in a relatively secular, MYOB, liberal corner of the country, I guess.

Seems to me people ought to have enough to worry about running their own lives, before they get all busy trying to run the lives of others.

Although I'm always surprised by authoritarian, control-freaky attitudes, even among some "liberals"- just look at the horror over Beyonce's naughty outfit.

[FrodosPet]

107. Don't they get it?

People who DO NOT WANT kids will not be able to take care of them like someone who does. Unwanted children live lives of emotional, and sometimes physical neglect. Not saying YOU would, but it only makes sense that a lot of reluctant parents would be unable to care for such a child.

So why should children live with the burden of being unwanted?

As for the economy / population crunch coming - there are how many millions of children being born in Africa who can be brought to America to help with the upcoming labor shortage?

[smirkymonkey]

112. Good for you!

I have never wanted children either and don't have them. I have just never had any maternal urges and I don't regret my decision in the least. My siblings all have children and while I adore my nieces and nephews, I like to be able to come and go as I please. I need my alone time more than most people and I know myself well enough to know that I would probably not be a very good parent.

The world does not need any more unwanted children and we don't have enough jobs as it is for everyone who wants them. Ignore these people, they are probably just miserable with the choices they have made in their own lives and envious of your freedom.

[BainsBane]

114. all they care about is more white babies

They are worried about becoming a minority. They can't do anything about demographic changes, so they complain. It's all they have.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

120. Then I would be the lat person they want having kids.

If you ever saw a picture of my family, you would think it is a meeting of the UN.

I take on the European look, My baby sister looks very Asian, Brother takes on the Latino characteristics, my other sister looks like she is full blood Native American. We do not look to be blood relations at all.

Then to see a full family meet up and you would have a hard time believing we are all related by blood. Every type of person you can think of. I do admit, it's pretty cool!

[ode2joi]

153. More White Babies..for the "Revolution"

They do not give a damn about "brown" babies. They only want white babies so they can maintain their privileged status in this country. If they really cared about all children in this country GOP politics would reflect that. When you go thousands of miles around the globe to adopt "anything but black/brown babies in your own country that need parents, that pretty much explains it.

[alarimer]

116. It's because they are racists at core.

I don't know your race, and it doesn't actually matter, but a lot of the pressure from conservatives is that they are afraid of the emerging non-white majority. It's probably also why they hate abortion so much.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

123. Pick one.

I look white, however take look at my siblings and you will see I am a heavy mix of many races.

But you are probably right about the race thing. As I do look very European.

[davidn3600]

117. There are a few reasons people do this

There is this part of the social programming that tells us that part of life is sacrificing for the next generation. We are supposed to give up our lives for the children. Therefore when we say we dont want children, it means we are selfish for living life for only ourselves.

Other people think they need children because the children will then take care of their parents later in life. Of course there is no guarantee of this, especially in America. In this country it is encouraged to abandon our parents at age 18. And if we have the money, we throw them in a nursing home when they are old age.

I've seen this go far with employers cutting hours or passing people up for promotion who dont have kids because employers think the man/woman that has kids needs the money more than the person who doesn't.

[Dawson Leery]

124. These conservatives sceam about "freedom" and "liberty".

So long as you conform to their ways.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

130. Yep. They're insistent that they be given the freedom and liberty to tell others what to do.

[truegrit44]

127. I say good for you LFR!

The biggest threat to this planet is over population. I have 2 grown daughters 30-40 years old and neither have never wanted children and one even went as far to have her tubes tied. I am all for their decision........for many reasons.

They are not well off financially even when they were married, there are way too many humans invading the environment as it is, and I see the employment problem as not enough jobs for those already living, and I also many times over the years have seen having children as a selfish trait. I know I will get flack for saying that but I get sick of hearing about how important it is to carry on the family genes, like they think they are so important or hearing people say "Oh I want a baby, and talk about dressing it and showing it off. So many young people especially just see having a child as an "I want" not thinking of it as growing up to be an adult human with tons of life's problems. Of course there are those that keep having them so as to get bigger welfare checks. At this time the future to me looks very bleak and I am totally afraid of what life in this country or world for that matter will be in 40 years, I can't believe it will be a quality life, hell it barely is now.

I do have 3 grandchildren from my sons and I worry about what life will be like for them in 30-40-50 years. I know I probably don't have the right to say all this as I had 4 children, but many times I have almost wished I hadn't or had given more thought to it when I was young. If I had it to do over I would be just like you LFR

[Jamastiene]

129. Oh noes, the entire species DEPENDS on YOU having children.

Now, we'll all go extinct.

I'm 42, with no kids, and they no longer nag me. It does get better when you finally let them know you are going through the change early. It is too damn late for them to waste their breath nagging me any more.

[truegrit44]

131. and also........

it reminds of everyone asking me why I don't go to church. I guess I would say we are different people and you have reasons for your decisions (children, church etc) and I have reasons for my life decisions and I'm not asking about yours. In other words shut the hell up!

[galileoreloaded]

136. At 35 I don't blame you one bit.

The health risk are way to high. Tell them to STFU.

Good for you!

[laundry_queen]

139. I hate to say it

It wouldn't matter what you did - some people are rude and will stick their nose in your business. I have 4 kids (all very wanted, and loved like crazy) and I get the 'breeder' thing from one side, and I get the 'are you going to try for a boy' (I have 4 girls) from the other. I've also gotten the nice judgment statements "You can't do that, you have *4* kids!" (dye my hair pink, get a tattoo - well that was when I had 2 kids - and go to school full-time - my advisor said no more than 2 courses at a time....I've taken 4 per term and have 3.9 GPA)

My brother and SIL are about 90% sure they don't want kids, and they get the 'selfish' thing all the time, mostly from my dad. I told him he has 4 lovely grandkids already. He said, 'but your brother's kids will be HIS and different than yours! I want to see what HIS kids would look like!' FFS, THERE's a good reason to have kids. My aunt and her SO didn't want any, and got grief from my narcissistic grandmother for YEARS until my aunt hit menopause.

People will judge and many will think you want to hear their superior opinion on your childbearing choices. They also seem to think their superior insight will make you change your mind.

I think part of the problem is there is a huge undercurrent of sexism in society that states women cannot possibly fulfilled by the same things men can be fulfilled by (career, social life, sports) - for some reason the ONLY way women can have a fulfilling life is to bear a child. I HATE that sexist view, and it's SO pervasive.

[maryellen99]

140. Early in my marriage

We wanted kids but it never happened plus my husband has FSGS (Kidney disease ) which is genetic in his case and we don't want to pass it to a child.

[REP]

141. Add me to the list of unwomanly, inhuman economy-wrecking harlots

Sterilized twice to be doubly evil.

My brother and SIL are child-free, too.

[JesterCS]

143. I do not want children either.

have known since I was a teenager, and I'm now 31. It's incredibly hard to find someone who agrees these days.

[mike dub]

144. What a great post and thread

I saw HockeyMom's original post this morning, and have a moment to chime in, now:

My wife and I were married at age 35 and 33 (married in 2003, for perspective) and always planned not to have children.

My progressive-liberal Protestant mother has the toughest time with it (but "thankfully" my older sister does have a son --the first GrandSon to the family ;o). And I verbally told my parents a few years ago that my wife and I were planning Not to have children.

Ironically ? my wife's hard right-wing father has the Least problem with us Not having a child. When my wife eluded verbally to him to the fact that we weren't having kids, he said "yall do what y'r gonna do" in his usual south Louisiana way (e.g., "to each Their own&quot .

Long way of saying, I hear everyone here who's said they feel the social construct thing about "when are You all havin kids?" and my wife and I have gotten over that pressure for ourselves. And the love between the two of us (and, yes, the intimacy) is goin' real strong.

Thanks all, for this thread. I used to worry about this topic, but really don't as much now. And it's Great to see it posted here on DU. Thanks.
Mike

[DearHeart]

145. I agree with you! Nobody's damn business!

I wanted kids, but never got to have any. But I fully support people's right to not have any. If I were younger, I probably would make the same decision as you have. I couldn't bring a child into this world or this country with all that's going on now and what might be coming in the near future.

[davidpdx]

151. I agree with you and I think men should be just as thoughtful as to whether they want children

I think the pressure is not completely on the wife, but the husband as well. There is nothing wrong with not wanting children. I made the decision years at an early age (I was still in college) that I didn't want kids. Why? I honestly don't think I'm the type of person who would be a good parent. Some of it is my own crappy upbringing that I wouldn't want even the remote chance of having that happen to a child I had. Of course there is no definitive way of knowing that would happen, but if deep down you feel it is not the right choice you have to listen to your intuition. People are going to have different reasons for not wanting kids and that should be respected.

Now here is the funny part. I live in South Korea where it is almost seen as a duty to have at least one child. When you tell people you don't have a child they look at you and ask why. It is so much more invasive than in the US, but at some point you just get use to it. The question is almost as bad as when they ask your blood type (they see blood type in relation to personality).

[LittleBlue]

154. I feel bad for you

People actually confront you about a personal choice? Weirdos.

And anyway, if you ever change your mind there is adoption and egg freezing. Women have options well into their 30's with modern technologies and sensibilities, so it's rude of them to even assume you don't want children just because you don't have any.

[gaspee]

156. No kids at 43

I knew from the time I was a child I didn't want any. Never married either, though engaged twice. Of the 4 kids in my family, only 1 had kids.

Never had even an ounce of maternal instinct. I'm happy with my 8 dogs.

Why in the hell would I want to give birth to more wage slaves to replenish the machine. Cause that's what most of are - we are born and die wage slaves.

[madville]

159. I'm just happy mine was born early

I was 19 in 1997, it was tough but now I'm 35 and he is 16. That's it though, I'm fixed, all my siblings and cousins are spitting out babies left and right in their 30's, I think they're nuts

[NightOwwl]

164. Knew since I was 16

I did not want kids. People told me I would change; the maternal instinct would kick in. 40 years later and I'm still waiting.