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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe US Has Been Involved In These Wars For Nearly Half Its Existence [INFOGRAPHIC]
http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-us-armed-coflict-2013-2The U.S. has a long history of armed conflict and the Best Liberal Art Colleges released this infographic, breaking down the battles, the cost, and the duration of each. It's a handy and concise look at a long and complex history of armed conflict.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)Initech
(100,081 posts)But not sometimes - all the time every time!
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)Some wars are pretty sketchy, some wars are pretty defensible.
Bryant
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)I guess it depends on how you look at it - but if we are to Judge the United States - well, Spanish American, Mexican American, Vietnam, Iraq - these are hard to defend. On the other hand certainly WW2 might be seen a more defensible.
Bryant
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)You're attempting to make a very complex subject, very simple.
The original wars were pretty much about the right to even BE a country. This is especially true of the two wars with Britian. Over laid with that (they excluded the "French and Indian wars" preceding the Revolution) were basically wars of white/european expansion into the American Continent. (this gets a bit confused as well because of the Spanish moves in this area that start before that). Subsequent to those wars, were the string of wars expanding the country west. That was predominately a continuation of white/european expansion, but under a new government. You then get into the early attempts at a new form of empire building which is where the Spanish American war and Philipino wars come from.
Then you get to the WWI and II (which are the same war) and it isn't clear why we really needed to be involved in that one AT ALL. We probably get involved predominately because of a desire to maintain our more lucrative economic markets in England and France, and the fact that England was "controling" much of the early middle eastern oil. Truth is, it is one of the DUMBEST wars europe fought. They basically all "backed in" to it and if cooler heads had prevailed, it could have been avoided altogether. WW II doesn't happen at all without the outcome of I, although it isn't clear at that point what happens to the rise of facism, especially in Italy and Spain. But neither of those countries had nearly the expansionist intentions of Nazi Germany, so a general European war is probably unlikely.
Then you get to our modern "empire" wars, Korea, Vietnam (Laos and Cambodia), Iraq I and II. We could throw in Panama, Grenada as well as repeated moves into Haiti. These are attempts at empire in a new form, started out of a desire to avoid direct conflict with the USSR, but now just empire building for the 21st century.
In that layout, it isn't clear that ANY of them were necessary. Canada didn't need a war to become independent of England. (But our revolution may have made it possible). We can argue about the necessity of westward expansion, but anyway one looks at it, it is hard to see why it had to be a vioilent expansion. The one war I left out, the American Civil War, was only "necessary" because we weren't part of England any more which had rid itself of slavery well before us.
At the end of the day, war isn't "necessary". Occasionally, you get attacked and there isn't much you could have done. 9/11 almost qualifies as an attack like that (although many would like to discuss our behavior over the previous few decades that created Al Queada and the Taliban). But in this day and age, my axiom is:
War is what you do after you missed all the chances to do the right thing.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)ALL wars start with "He's got something I want, and I think I'm big enough to TAKE IT." and that mindset is ALWAYS indefensible.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)The party which has to DEFEND/JUSTIFY a war is the party which STARTED it, not the party given no choice but to respond to it.
Defending a war IS NOT the semantic equivalent of defending against war.
So (third time's the charm?) NO WAR IS DEFENSIBLE.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)But when you say no war is defensible below a chart of the Wars of the United States - the Wars we have been involved in - I just take that to mean that no war the United States has been in is defensible. I guess that was foolish of me.
What you meant to see is that War is always a failure on somebodies part, but nations, of course, have the right to defend themselves.
Bryant
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)...side or the other. But it is not inevitable that failure (of diplomacy or torte) is the reason for war.
War is:
- I want.
- You have.
- I take.
- You stop me?
You don't stop me?
exboyfil
(17,863 posts)belligerent towards Japan, and we could have avoided the war with a softer policy. Not to say that I agree with what Japan was doing (or their allies Germany and Italy). We could have ignored Germany when it declared war on us after Pearl Harbor. Would we have stood by and watched Western Europe go dark? We might have if Japan had not attacked us. Many Americans believed that the behavior of France and England after WWI means that they were getting what they deserved. I think many saw a replay of WWI going on in WWII (and the extension of the several hundred years of European wars). Up until WWI we were able to mostly stay out of European intrigue. A more neutral policy before our entry into WWI could have kept us out of that engagement as well.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)...Treaty and Marshal Plan as Britain and France.
It is becoming more and more likely that the Lusitania incident was deliberately engineered to get the US populace behind a war they wanted to stay out of. At the same time, there is any amout of evidence that "Stay out of it." was official policy right up until the moment it wasn't.
In fact one could make an argument for the US hanging back a year or so to see if there was any profit in tooling up for mechanised warfare, or simply gain the time to tool up to the stage where the US could make some impact.
And then cynically sending a shipload of civilians to their deaths in order to change a nation's collective minds in an instant.
Arguably many of the roots of WWII were in the 29 crash and great depression which was a US phenomenon spread to the rest of the world. Where it collided with the Post WWI treaties, hyperinflation and/or fascism set in.
Plenty of European beligerance toward Japan too.
Ultimately, it's lead to arms traders realising there's more profit in the instruments of modern mechanised war, than there is in the commodities being "secured".
exboyfil
(17,863 posts)Along with sending military to back White Russia. I agree with you that it is very likely the Lusitania was set up for domestic effect.
"The diving team estimates that around four million rounds of U.S.-manufactured Remington .303 bullets lie in the Lusitania's hold at a depth of 300ft."
rakeeb
(201 posts)Afghanistan and Iraq were the most expensive wars in history, but then the bar graph directly below that statement shows WW2 to be the most expensive.
Other than that, this graphic is well-designed to get the point across in a single (scrolling) glance.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)The economic cost of the war has been estimated at US$1500 billion.
Of this, the US spent 21%, Britain 20%, Germany 18% and the USSR 13%.
(Source: The Penguin Atlas of World History ; Hermann Kinder and Werner Hilgemann; Originally published as Atlas zur Weltgeschichte).
...
According to my Oxford Companion to WWII in strictly monetary terms here was the breakdown for the major players in their currencies:
UK-Pounds Sterling 20,500,000,000 US-$306,000,000,000 Germany-Reichmarks 414,000,000,000 Japan-Yen 174,000,000,000 Italy- Lire 278,500,000,000 USSR- Ruble 582,000,000,000
I'm not sure if the US figure even takes into acount the 50 billion in Lend lease aid that was given out.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_did_World_War_2_cost
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)progressoid
(49,991 posts)Beowulf
(761 posts)Grenada? Panama? What about proxy wars? I think this list is really light.
geardaddy
(24,931 posts)1865-1891. But yeah, I'd argue the list is light.
think
(11,641 posts)malthaussen
(17,204 posts)Stalin should be notified at once!
-- Mal
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)malthaussen
(17,204 posts)We could argue about whether it is sufficient to rank the USSR as a belligerent in the conflict, but I'm easy to get along with.
-- Mal
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)that has also plagued America pretty much since its inception. Whether it's the Blood and Crips or Al Capone, America's streets have been killing grounds for hundreds of years.
This is why I never get all gushy over military parades and shit like that. I have nothing against individual soldiers, even have a few as friends, but I hate the constant glorification of war and death in our culture. The bottom line is, as long as we have a huge ass military, we'll find ways to use it. Otherwise, what's the point in having it? This is not lost on The Powers That Be.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)ashling
(25,771 posts)The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)America wouldn't be if not for war. It's how territory is carved up.
Look at a continent like Africa, or a region like parts of the Middle East. The borders were drawn up by outside interests. War didn't get to do its job the way it did in America, or Europe. Party because of the success of America and Europe in making up the rules, which of course benefit the victor.
That's crazy. We've been involved in way too many wars!
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)In 1944 Charles Erwin Wilson, CEO of GM, said "America needs a war based economy". He was still CEO when Eisenhower appointed him Sec't. of Defense. While Eisenhower warned against the MIC in his final speech, he was the president who built it.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)We sent the Marines to support various governments in Central America during the 1920s and 1930s.
NeoConsSuck
(2,544 posts)indepat
(20,899 posts)dory to have gazillions of assault-type weapons just lying around waiting for some stochastic terrorist to prod a crazed loony to act out on a stirred-up hatred by massacring a multitude of locals: what a dichotomous asininity imo.