Sandpaper Spelling Assignment At Florida Middle School Leaves Kids Bleeding, Parents Outraged

[The Straight Story]

Sandpaper Spelling Assignment At Florida Middle School Leaves Kids Bleeding, Parents Outraged

Florida sixth grader Josh Sommer is upset that a school assignment has left him with a bloody scabbed fingertip.

Anna Garrett, a teacher at Burns Middle School in Brandon, Fla., handed students corrected spelling exams and told students to trace each corrected word five times on sandpaper, five times a day for five consecutive days. Josh, 11 years old, tells WFTS that his finger started to bleed by the 125th repetition.

"Then by the end of the time, my whole table was bleeding," he told WFTS. When students complained about the pain, the teacher reportedly told the children to sit down and keep quiet. "I didn't want to get yelled at by my teacher."

Parents are accusing Garrett, an educator of 27 years, of abusing children. She is on paid administrative leave until school officials complete an investigation and determine whether to bring her back into the classroom. The local sheriff's office is also investigating the incident.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/sandpaper-spelling-assign_n_2581732.html

[tk2kewl]

1. sick

[datasuspect]

2. was she a christian?

[patrice]

55. Personally, I wonder if there wasn't somekind of Christian fad to "save America" by teaching in

its public schools - perhaps it was some years ago and kind of synched up with what is a fairly documentable Christian push to "save America" by getting on school boards, only the "teacher vocation" was for MORE "Christian" mommies and succeeded pretty well on the fact that they were therefore available to their own children when they weren't in school.

Just a theory . . . .

[Union Scribe]

64. Your theory appears to lie in tatters

since there are teachers in this thread saying it's some old and valued technique. I find it dubious, but no more so than immediately assuming she belongs to some group you want to villainize.

[patrice]

71. Anecdotal evidence is only anecdotal evidence. Here's some anecdotal evidence of my own:

I taught in Oklahoma for several years and saw many instances in which religion ranked over curriculum.

You also assume that I want to villainize some group, when I was just theorizing something based upon my own experiences. Can you substantiate your justification for that prejudice about me? and . . .

May I ask why you feel such hostility toward me?

[patrice]

76. I might also mention that you obviously don't know how theories are validated, or not, by means

of various rational processes, none of which I have claimed, but you have, that is, you have made that claim without doing the science to support it.

Again, evidence of prejudice of somesort. Do you hold others around here to such hypocritical criteria?

[patrice]

78. However, to show you how open minded I am. I accept your criticism & propose a change in my

terminology from "theory" to "hypothesis".

All better now?

[patrice]

79. You're always as nasty to me as you can be. Care to state your problem with me out in the open? nt

[patrice]

84. For example, why didn't #2 rate your bile? nt

[patrice]

90. Speaking of "villainizing", wouldn't it have been better to ASK me my attitude toward Christianity?

[Union Scribe]

185. FFS pal, get it together.

You don't need to reply-bomb me.

[justabob]

3. shades of Dolores Umbridge nt

[longship]

23. You beat me to it! nt

[dlwickham]

82. I was thinking the same thing

[Canuckistanian]

139. Maybe that's where she got the idea

She certainly doesn't have grasp on reality

[HiPointDem]

155. or maybe she got it from the US government's Head Start website. Or any one of a million other

reputable education resources.

Alphabet Knowledge Strategies

To teach the alphabet

Display the alphabet in the classroom at children's eye level. Place letters where children see them, touch and manipulate them (for instance, magnetic or sandpaper letters), and use them where they work and play.

http://eclkc.ohs.acf.hhs.gov/hslc/tta-system/teaching/eecd/domains%20of%20child%20development/literacy/edudev_art_00012_061405.html

[Canuckistanian]

170. I'd make them stop at the 10th repetition

Not the 125th. That's just how I roll.

[HiPointDem]

176. The video shows the card with directions. FIVE TIMES for each word they missed on a spelling

test. and given that a 5th-6th spelling test is usually about 20 words, even if he missed every word on the test, he wasn't doing anything 125 times a sitting or a day.

Piss-poor reporting in all the print accounts. You can clearly read what the assignment was in the video.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

201. You didn't see the part where the kids were told to do five sessions of tracing each word 5 times a

day. That's 25 right there, and if the kid missed five words, that's 125.

Even if not done in sequence, repeated stress to the skin can cause bleeding.

[HiPointDem]

203. no, i just saw it misreported as such in the media. the video shows the actual directions given

to the students. in type, on a card.

the teacher is mrs garrett.

[LiberalFighter]

4. If she did that she should be fired and lose her teaching credentials.

[MineralMan]

5. That teacher is an abject moron.

Fire her at once, and cancel her credentials.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Kindergarten and preschool teachers teach letter recognition with sandpaper

So do special ed teachers. I have a set of sandpaper letters in my classroom that I use with kids who need them.

No bleeding yet. Am I doing it wrong?

[justabob]

8. looks like *this* teacher was doing it wrong

but hard to say until more comes out. I can see how using sandpaper letters would be helpful as a tactile tool, but it looks like this teacher went a little too far with it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. You do realize this is based on the report from an 11 year old?

And children NEVER exaggerate to get their teachers in trouble.

[justabob]

18. that is why I said "looks like" and "until more comes out"

I know teachers are under siege, but that doesn't mean there aren't actual mistakes made from time to time. Maybe the post just below mine was right and super duty sandpaper was involved rather than fine grit.... or something.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Well call me strange but I'd rather have more information before calling the teacher a moron

Last edited Mon Feb 4, 2013, 07:42 PM - Edit history (1)

or insisting her credentials should be revoked.

I'd be serving a life sentence if I had been penalized every time I've used sandpaper in my classroom.

[trixie]

106. But it ok to call the student a liar?

[proud2BlibKansan]

108. Because children never lie or even exaggerate?

[trixie]

112. So the poor teacher against the big bad child?

Kids bleeding, it's over the teacher was wrong.

[proud2BlibKansan]

121. A kid who presses his finger hard enough to make it bleed.

Come on. Wouldn't you expect a 6th grader to know better than that?

[The Straight Story]

127. But it wasn't just one kid (nt)

[HiPointDem]

134. where are the others? the only evidence is that *this* kid says so.

[proud2BlibKansan]

141. Only one in the linked story.

But seriously, one kid goes on TV to talk about his bad teacher and pretty soon, you've got another, and another. Step right up, kids.

[proud2BlibKansan]

138. Yes, you keep saying that.

[The Straight Story]

143. See my post below, and the school spokesman said it too:

However, spokesman Steve Hegarty doesn't believe abuse was a motive.

"There are some students complaining that it hurt their fingers and we don't think that's a good way to learn," he said.

Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_east_hillsborough/brandon/teacher-accused-of-abusing-child-with-sandpaper#ixzz2JzL2K4Vv

[proud2BlibKansan]

151. Over 6 million copies sold.

No injuries reported. Yet.

This book must not be on the required reading list at that school.

[The Straight Story]

154. Depends on how it is used. If you throw it at someone it could cause harm

Like guns, hundreds of millions here but a few misuse them and people suddenly want them banned - I don't judge all by the few but I don't see how protecting the few helps anything.

[proud2BlibKansan]

163. I'm glad you brought that up.

Maybe you should think about the gun banners before you post another 'bad teacher' story.

I want more information. I want to know what we can do to keep our kids and ourselves safe while preserving the rights of Americans to be responsible gun owners. I realize it's a complex issue and my friends who own guns are all responsible citizens who carefully lock up their weapons and would never use them to harm another human being. I would never support any plan to take their guns away.

I also have spent 30 years in education, doing work that is incredibly stressful and intensely rewarding. I have shared the expertise I have here on this thread in an attempt to explain that yes, there is an appropriate use for sandpaper in our classrooms. Did this teacher use it inappropriately? I don't know. I've been teaching long enough to know better than to take the word of an 11 year old - or several 11 year olds - who are on the TV complaining about their mean teacher.

It's not such a difficult concept, now is it?

[HiPointDem]

162. yet 3 year olds can do it without injury.

[gollygee]

142. If it was more than one kid

it was a group at a table doing it on purpose for some reason. There is no way a kid that age is going to know not to rub their finger against sandpaper hard enough to bleed. This story is stupid. I can't get over it. This is a very very common teaching method, not even some "outside the box" thing like it says in the article, except I think it's more commonly used for younger kids. My kids both did it in preschool and never bled. They were like 4 or something and knew not to press their fingers down that hard.

[HiPointDem]

148. If a kid is bleeding, you have to report it or you're in deep shit. according to the kid, she told

him to sit down, shut up and do his work when he showed her his finger.

i don't believe it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

157. Every. Single. Day. ~ I am told "my teacher wouldn't let me go to the bathroom"

during my cafeteria duty.

Some classes I see at the bathroom, washing their hands, taking care of business, right before they come into lunch. But kids in those very classes ask - EVERY DAY - if they can leave the cafeteria to use the restroom, because "my teacher wouldn't let me go".

[gollygee]

160. You have to go to your supplies and get a fresh pair of gloves

and go through a whole process. Blood is treated like a big deal in the schools these days. It isn't something any teacher could just ignore.

[The Straight Story]

75. Not just 1 parent/student, and it was not letters but regular sandpaper

And it was for heavy material removal (the sandpaper)

[proud2BlibKansan]

80. I use regular sandpaper all the time in my classroom.

I have sandpaper letters as well as sheets of sandpaper for writing. I've also cut my own letters out of sandpaper because that's less expensive than buying the ready made ones.

Here are some examples:



http://www.simplelittlehome.com/2012/09/montessori-sandpaper-tracing-letters.html



http://practicalmama.com/2009/01/home-made-sandpaper-letters/

It's a very widely used technique. And I don't appreciate being accused of abusing children. I've taught nearly 1000 children to read and write and never once have I abused any of them.

[The Straight Story]

83. Did they have to trace 125 words at a time?

I dunno, seems a tad excessive to me.

Teachers use tape in class all the time too, but some have used it to tape mouths shut.

And another teacher at the school shoved a shoe in a kid's face, I am sure most do not use shoes that way.

Lastly, millions own guns and most don't use them to harm others - but anyone owning one now gets called a gun nut/etc.

This teacher seems to have went a tad overboard (and it was not just one student complaining).

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. I teach younger students. I wouldn't make them do 125 words ever, even on regular paper.

I have no idea if that is excessive for middle school. I've never taught middle school so I don't judge those teachers. But my dad was a middle school principal and he often talked about what a difficult age group it was.

[HiPointDem]

98. 25 a day, and not all at once.

[gollygee]

147. It wasn't 125 at a time

it was less than that, but the whole point of doing it is to have some repetition. Both my kids did this, and much much younger than 6th grade - more like preschool - and both knew enough at that age to not hurt themselves doing it. I mean they're pressing down their own fingers. It isn't hard to just not press down ridiculously hard. You'd have to work at it to hurt yourself.

[HiPointDem]

187. the assignment was to trace each missed word FIVE TIMES. NOT 125. The teacher didn't

'shove a shoe in a kids face', she supposedly 'threw a soft shoe' at a student. we have no idea what the context of that action was, or even what a 'soft shoe' is.

you don't know what happened in this case. the technique is common and well-accepted.

we don't know why the kid's finger was red.

but 3-year-olds can do the task without harming themselves, so why can't an 11 year old?

[kestrel91316]

85. I guess I'm clueless. I don't get how sandpaper helps kids learn to read.

When I was in school everything was construction paper and I did just fine.

[proud2BlibKansan]

89. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2312790

[Blue_Tires]

10. maybe the wrong grit was used??

[JVS]

69. My suspicion is that the kids pressed too hard.

And by that I don't mean to say that I think the kids pressed really really hard. I just think that they started out not realizing how many times even a moderate rub would add up and how it would feel. Their assignment meant rubbing however many words they got wrong x 125.

[Erose999]

52. I am wondering what grit was used. Maybe this teacher used 40 grit where she should have used 400.

[appleannie1]

86. 60 grit according to the link

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. It's a Montessori technique

If Maria wasn't dead, would you turn her in for child abuse?

http://www.ehow.com/how_4523511_use-montessori-sandpaper-letters-teach.html

[MattBaggins]

11. If she left her students bleeding... yes

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Somewhere around 100 years of using this method and no blood yet.

But let's all jump to conclusions before we have all the information.

[MattBaggins]

16. Not jumping to any conclusions

you asked a hypothetical and I gave a conditional.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Maybe not you

But several in this thread are calling for the teacher to be fired.

[madfloridian]

32. It's an accepted method for learning.

Most teachers of students with learning problems have them in the classroom.

You are right.

[Control-Z]

57. I've never heard of it.

Now I'm trying to imagine how it helps with spelling. Would you mind explaining the process to me? When I read the OP I assumed the sandpaper exercise was punishment for spelling a word wrong. With your responses, however, it appears to be a learning tool.

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. It's called tactile learning. Also referred to as kinesthetic.

Any time you connect visual (which is how spelling is taught) to tactile, or touch, you increase the opportunity for permanence - or something we remember. Primary teachers do it every day. Feel the letters as you do when you trace them on sandpaper, and you're more likely to remember them. I've also used raised letters, which I make from several layers of liquid glue allowed to dry until you have created a raised surface over the image of the letter. There is also raised line paper which helps the children learn to write in a specific space, like the lines on a paper. I used to buy it but it was very expensive so when they cut our budgets I started making my own using liquid glue traced over the lines on the paper. This gives them visual and physical boundaries to help them learn to write within the lines.

But yes, I use sandpaper letters nearly every day with my kids who are still learning their letters. They're easier to make than the raised letters and it's a method that works (or I wouldn't do it).

Other kinesthetic methods include tracing the forms of the letters on the student's back. But as soon as a student complains that his teacher was touching his back, then we'll probably have an OP here claiming a teacher was hurting a child. That seems to be the pattern at least.

[Ian David]

104. Where did this go wrong here? n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

107. Well, you would hope that by 6th grade, a kid would be intelligent enough

to avoid pressing so hard on the sandpaper that his finger bleeds.

[trixie]

105. Um, we have generations of teachers in our family

I have never, ever heard of this. Sounds crazy. Montessori method? Come on!

[proud2BlibKansan]

109. Yes, Montessori method.

You should have Googled it.

http://www.infomontessori.com/language/written-language-sandpaper-letters.htm

Numbers too:
http://mamaguru.com/montessori-sandpaper-numbers/

And they are even available on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=montessori+sandpaper&tag=googhydr-20&index=toys-and-games&hvadid=7018799127&hvpos=1o2&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8592005342008517561&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_4r6g500dxn_b

[trixie]

113. Montessori method?

For cripes sake.

[HiPointDem]

115. anyone who's been in K-12 education or early childhood ed knows what montessori is. forgive

me if i disbelieve your story about 'generations of teachers'.

i'm not even in education, and *I* know what montessori is.

if your family has 'generations of teachers,' they're singularly uninformed about their own field.

[proud2BlibKansan]

119. Check out the prices.

It's a sure sign it's Montessori when it's way overpriced.


This set is $25


This one is $44


And here's a globe for $27

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=montessori+sandpaper&tag=googhydr-20&index=toys-and-games&hvadid=7018799127&hvpos=1o2&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8592005342008517561&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_4r6g500dxn_b

[trixie]

204. Why yes I do know what the "true Montessori method" is

a bunch of bunk. If you use the "true" method you do not make any child do anything. They happen on it themselves. You would not have to force sandpaper letters (shudders) for no kid would be forced to do anything. Ah the Montessori method where 12 years olds don't have to know how to read.

We don't believe in unschooling, homeschooling or the Montessori method. So you can see your little taunt to me was for nought. Nice debating though.

Perhaps this link will enlighten you.

[HiPointDem]

114. yeah, right. i believe you, sure, that's the ticket.

[gollygee]

149. Generations of teachers in my family too

and two kids who have done Montessori preschool, and I've certainly heard of it. It's very very common.

[Sadiedog]

122. Interesting. I teach at Head Start and have never seen this method used,

of course that means little. I think there are better ways to teach than this, even for tactile learners.

[proud2BlibKansan]

124. How to use Montessori sandpaper letters:

http://www.ehow.com/how_4510034_use-montessori-sandpaper-letters.html

[HiPointDem]

137. That's interesting, since they're specifically mentioned on the government's Head Start webpage.

Strategies to Promote Alphabet Knowledge

- Display the alphabet in the classroom at children's eye level. Place letters where children see them, touch and manipulate them (for instance, magnetic or sandpaper letters), and use them where they work and play.

http://eclkc.ohs.acf.hhs.gov/hslc/tta-system/teaching/eecd/domains%20of%20child%20development/literacy/edudev_art_00012_061405.html

[Sadiedog]

191. Not all Head Start employees look at the website for curriculum ideas.

We have lots of resources other than that but I`ll check it out. We use magnetic letters in my classroom and have the children write in shaving cream on a table. I just had never heard of the sandpaper letters but as I said that does not mean some teachers are not using this in their classrooms.

[HiPointDem]

192. of course they don't, but its inclusion suggests it's government & Head-Start-approved pedagogy.

There are a million hits on the internet about sandpaper letters. it's a commonly used technique.

[Sadiedog]

198. I was not saying that it wasn`t just mentioned that I had never heard of it before. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

199. Oh please don't bring up the shaving cream.

It has chemicals in it and if the kids eat it, they could get sick and well, that's a whole nuther thread . . . .

[Sadiedog]

202. Well, it is important to check what is in the product that you use. I`ve never had a kid eat it but

I`m certain it could happen. We are now using something called silly foam or something like that but not because of children eating it but due to the scent put in the shaving cream. I think there are arguments to be made for and against most teaching methods. I`m not sold on the sandpaper but I`ll look into it.

[CreekDog]

196. i went to Montessori, thankfully did not learn to read or spell that way

and jeez, if a kid is bleeding the teacher needs to get involved.

[Ikonoklast]

9. If she was a parent and did that to her kids, she would have been arrested on the spot.

Why isn't she cooling her heels in county?

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. I did this with my own children and wasn't arrested.

Imagine that.

[Ikonoklast]

44. You caused your own children to harm themselves enough to bleed?

Wow.

Just, wow.

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. I used sandpaper to teach them to learn letters and to spell words.

And since they didn't press hard enough to hurt themselves, there was no blood involved.

[derby378]

96. As long as nobody's getting hurt, I'm cool with it

That teacher in the OP was just being abusive and snotty. It's the difference between an S&M flogger and Davy Jones' cat-o-nine-tails.

[proud2BlibKansan]

145. Actually my kids are smart enough to know not to press hard enough to make their finger bleed.

But I do have some exceptionally bright kids.

[Scootaloo]

169. "Proud2blib" believes the kids are liars

And that the entire story is fabricated, and even if it's not, well, the kids deserve it for being too stupid to know sandpaper can hurt you.

[HiPointDem]

29. are you for real?

[Ikonoklast]

48. Are you?

Lemme see here, DIL is a social worker, older brother is an attorney that has years of experience as a GAL representing abused children, I sent them a link to this story to see what they thought

Both said if they were made aware of an abusive situation such as this done by a parent, law enforcement would have been called by them both as mandatory reporters.


I see knee-jerk defense of a teacher who may or may not be abusive, and accusing the child of being a liar.

[HiPointDem]

49. i see knee-jerk attack on a teacher who used a well-accepted technique in reading education.

from people who apparently don't know anything about reading education & believe everything they see in the paper if it suits their biases.

[Ikonoklast]

53. Incorrectly, it would seem.

Also seems that there was enough evidence to do an investigaion.

Biases, indeed.

Circle the wagon mentality.

[HiPointDem]

56. any parent complaint will prompt an 'investigation.' anti-teacher, anti-public school mentality.

combined with ignorance about pedagogy.

biases indeed.

[Ikonoklast]

61. We shall see.

Teachers are most definitely human and fallible even if you fail to see that truth.

[HiPointDem]

95. I never said they weren't. So are newspaper reporters, editors and publishers. So are 11-year-old

boys and their parents.

So are posters at DU.

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. They investigate every complaint, regardless of the apparent evidence.

And if you really have social workers in your family, they would know that.

Teachers are put on leave every day for reports of suspected abuse, and an investigation follows the report. The evidence doesn't determine whether or not an investigation is conducted.

[11 Bravo]

12. Kinesthetic learning is a valid educational tool. For some kids, it's the best way ...

to learn. I have used sandpaper letters in my classroom to good effect. I can see where repeated tracings could possibly draw blood, if a lot of pressure was applied; but I have never had a student get so much as a slight abrasion via this technique. The child is supposed to lightly rest a finger on the sandpaper and trace the letters or numbers.
Something about this story doesn't add up.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. For starters it's from an 11 year old kid.

Am I the only one who would like to have more information before revoking this teacher's certification?

[11 Bravo]

17. No, you are DEFINITELY not the only one!

Shit, some people already have her imprisoned. As I noted, I have used sandpaper letters for years without any issue whatsoever.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Well we have some here who spend much of their time bashing teachers

and posting every bad teacher story they can find.

[HiPointDem]

31. +1.

[Puzzledtraveller]

42. One poster above was only concerned whether the teacher was a christian

[Union Scribe]

67. You've said that a few times, about the 11 year-old

You seem to be implying that kids' stories aren't to be trusted when they say something happened to them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. I'm saying kids have been known to exaggerate.

Happened to a friend just recently. She sat at home for several months while an allegation made by a student was investigated. He had made it up, finally admitted it, and the teacher was allowed to go back to work.

Note I am not accusing EVERY kid who has ever reported abuse of lying. I would imagine the majority are being honest. But yes, some do indeed exaggerate. I am willing to bet every teacher in every school can report an incidence of a kid exaggerating or falsely reporting abuse by a parent or teacher. Yes, it does happen. That's why I am saying I will wait for the investigation before I demand this teacher be fired and/or lose her teaching credentials.

[madfloridian]

35. I used them also, most of our teachers did. Accepted technique.

Something is really off in that OP article.

I notice the spokesperson for the district seemed unaware of the method.

That's what happens when people who have never been in a classroom respond so quickly.

[snooper2]

40. So are you using 60 grit or 1500?

Makes a big ass difference...


And if anybody tried to have my daughter do that I'd throw the sandpaper to the side and just bust a grinding wheel out

[Waiting For Everyman]

19. Writing it that many times would've done some good.

"Techniques" like this are ridiculous nonsense.

It's shocking to think that numerous generations before this learned how to write and learned how to spell without sandpaper... and yet they learned those skills better than students today... I wonder why that is?

Maybe concentrating on the "what" of learning instead of the "how" made some difference. We are process-obsessed. And content-challenged.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Maria Montessori

How many generations of our children have her schools taught?

Sandpaper letters and writing are some of her most widely practiced techniques.

So no, we haven't really educated generations without sandpaper. If you went to preschool you probably used sandpaper letters since Montessori techniques and resources have been widely adopted by most of our preschools.

[Waiting For Everyman]

34. Excuse me, I was taught without sandpaper, and I'm not that old.

Montessori was a fringe system until about the 70s in the Balto/DC area, which is hardly backward. So no, it hasn't been around all that long. Meanwhile, since the 70s when it and similar ideas became "in", there has been a steady decline in writing and spelling ability.

So in all the decades before that, believe it or not, people learned without sandpaper. Do you think George Washington, and Abe Lincoln, and FDR learned with sandpaper? No, they didn't, trust me on that. I'm really kind of shocked that anybody thinks this is the only way to teach, or even the best way. It's no wonder that education has sunk to a very sad state. (As in, "going in the wrong direction"?)

[madfloridian]

41. Your post is scary to me.

It shows me what teachers are facing.

[Waiting For Everyman]

45. Likewise, this thread makes me scared for kids today.

And our society of tomorrow. With teaching like this, they are so screwed. But then they won't know the difference, so they won't care. It will be a sad world.

My hope is, that computers and the increased ability to self-teach will help. That will be an uphill endeavor though, and not as it should be.

[madfloridian]

46. I would respond to that, but I don't know how.

I have no words.

[HiPointDem]

50. "kids today"? maria montessori was born in 1870. children learn through all their senses. that

you seem to think computerized 'learning' represents a great advance for toddlers is frightening.

[Union Scribe]

66. Really?

Scary? Look, I usually have teachers' backs, but I don't think disagreeing with a (literally) harsh method is some threat to the teaching community. I'd never heard of this practice before, and I'm sure most parents haven't either. It sounds as absurd as smacking knuckles with a ruler.

[madfloridian]

77. It is quite common, used often for those with learning problems, and with primary grades.

Montessori Schools have videos and activities with sandpaper letters. I just watched a couple of them.

I would post more about it here, but too many minds are already made up.

It IS a long time, traditional, accepted technique. But this thread is out of control in its disbelief.

That's what teachers are facing now. We need to accept it I guess and quit worrying.

The teacher is suspended, will probably be fired because her superiors are not well informed on the topic.

It is not a harsh method, it is one that works for many learners.

But what you think is more important than what has been proven to work.

So be it.

[HiPointDem]

99. it's not a harsh method *at all*. you just run your finger lightly along the sandpaper as you

trace the letter.

it doesn't hurt, and it doesn't draw blood.

[gollygee]

153. This is not at all harsh

It's just a bit tactile for tactile learners. It helps some kids remember better. It's been done for ages. Have you ever touched sandpaper - and they use fine sandpaper for htis. You'd have to work at it to hurt yourself running your finger over it. My kids both did this in preschool, so like at age 4, and they knew enough to rub but not press down that hard. I mean really, get some fine sandpaper and rub your finger across it. Or an emery board even. It is not harsh in the slightest.

[HiPointDem]

156. it actually doesn't matter what grit it is. none will abrade the skin if you just brush your finger

lightly across it.

[gollygee]

159. Yeah but the sandpaper used for these

you would have to put serious and major effort into it. It would take some real work. If the kids really were bleeding, they did it on purpose and were determined.

[proud2BlibKansan]

172. No one was smacked.

The teacher told the kids to trace the words on sandpaper. Some of them apparently weren't bright enough to avoid pressing so hard their finger bled.

[HiPointDem]

33. montessori: born in 1870. "learned those skills better than students today" = you don't know

what you're talking about.

[Waiting For Everyman]

37. If you think kids today are better at writing and spelling

than kids in decades past, you are quite wrong. Most people know that, because it's so evidant that one has to go deep into denial not to notice it.

[HiPointDem]

39. it's 'evidant,' is it? actually, research says otherwise. despite what you read in the popular

media.

[Waiting For Everyman]

43. "Research" can say a lot of things.

Defending failed systems is why we're failing at so many things. If you think public education today is doing a great job compared to the 60s, which by my observation was the high water mark for it, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[HiPointDem]

47. yes, phoney media-generated 'research' can say stupid things like the 60's was the high-water

mark for for education.

in 1959 1.6% of the population and 7.5% of blacks were unable to read or write *at all*. In 1969, .7% & 3.6%.

http://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp

The national assessment of educational progress has been given since 1971. It's the best test of national student achievement there is, and the results show that *despite* the fact that schools are dealing with a larger & poorer pool of children and a *much* higher % of minority students, achievement has risen.





Furthermore, it shows that the black-white achievement gap has *narrowed*.

[trixie]

110. You have got to be kidding

Back in the early 60s girls weren't taught higher math or science they had to concentrate on home ec and such. Back in the 60s we had prayer in schools, children had corporal punishment etc. Desks were in a line to emulate the assembly line. You didn't talk, certainly didn't question a teacher. Thank goodness we have moved away from that.

The good old days weren't that good. The Montessori method is bullshit.

[HiPointDem]

118. gosh, a couple of posts earlier you'd never heard of it, but now you know it's bullshit.

that's quick learning, trixie!

[lpbk2713]

20. Is our children learning?

The notorious BushCo legacy.

[deutsey]

27. I always loved that photo

It sort of sums up the Bush era for me.

[Recursion]

21. What?

That's... bizarre.

[madfloridian]

30. It's part of tactile learning, long accepted.

http://www.simplelittlehome.com/2012/09/montessori-sandpaper-tracing-letters.html

Something is a little off in that article in OP.

[cali]

36. long accepted for small children and surely not at the repetition level

that this teacher demanded.

[madfloridian]

38. You do not yet know the details.

There is something not right about the Huff Post story. I am sorry, but it is such an accepted method it is pathetic to have to defend it like this.

[jberryhill]

51. In all fairness to the teacher...

She did supply the sandpaper, and didn't make the kids pay for it. That's a welcome change from the notion that has caught on in the last few years that schools require the students to have their own supplies.

So, kudos for that, at least.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. She also didn't press down on their fingers as they traced the letters on the sandpaper.

If they pressed down hard enough to make themselves bleed, who is responsible for them being hurt?

[Rider3]

54. Get rid of that teacher

This is not teaching. This is a form of abuse, which I'm sure the teacher got a thrill over. Would would even think of doing this kind of an "exercise?" She's cruel.

[GoneOffShore]

181. You just read the top post didn't you? You didn't read anything else in the thread.

Unrec.

[Demo_Chris]

58. I could be wrong, but I am calling BS on this one.

Seriously, a SIXTH grader managed to make his finger bleed by tracing letters with his fingertip on sandpaper? This strikes me as ridiculous. This kid was 11 years old, not two.

So... I did an experiment, and I invite you to do the same. Go grab a piece of sandpaper and get sanding. Sand your fingertip, start writing words, and see for yourself how easy or difficult it is to accomplish what this kid did. Warning: Stop when you hit bone!

In the meantime, I am calling BS. This kid missed five words on his test and he's mad at his mean teacher.

[HiPointDem]

59. +1.

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. I'm leaning that way myself.

But I'm waiting to see what the investigation uncovers.

Of course we'll probably never find out. These 'my teacher abused me!' stories always die out after a day or so and we never do find out if the kids' allegations lead to proof of actual abuse.

[The Straight Story]

73. Well:

This is the second time in four months that Burns Middle School has drawn attention. In September, teachers were asked to be more sensitive after one staff member used a Ouija board as a prop.

The sandpaper incident also follows criticism of district incompetence in light of the deaths of two special needs students, and the arrest of a teacher for shoving her shoe in the face of a student with autism.
...

They were instructed to trace each word five times. By the 125th word, Josh says his finger started to bleed.

Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_east_hillsborough/brandon/teacher-accused-of-abusing-child-with-sandpaper#ixzz2Jyh4Irii


And it was regular sandpaper, not letters made from it.

[Demo_Chris]

93. I just tested it again, longer this time.

NOTE: the kid's story could be true. For all we know she's a freaking psycho and she grabbed the kids hand and ground it to the bone. With that out of the way...

I just did another test prior to writing this post. Here are my non-scientic and limited results.

1. I only wrote 60 words (I got bored)
2. I used the same finger the entire time
3. I made no effort to write lightly -- I was going for speed
4. When I really got flying my finger felt some heat burn that ended as soon as I slowed down or reduced pressure (and its gone now)
5. My finger shows no signs of any injury, no discoloration, it's possible I sanded off some skin but I can't see any missing
6. A child (or adult) in pain could and would change fingers, and would make an effort to reduce pressure if it started to hurt, let alone bleed

I could imagine that if one were forced to do this every day, 125 words each day, that by the end of the week one's fingers might be tender. It's POSSIBLE. I have no interest in finding out. Since I am not a teacher I cannot comment on the merit of this method versus just writing the words on paper.

I am still more inclined to believe that this was a young guy who was angry at his teacher and making a scene. But again, I could be wrong.

[The Straight Story]

94. But again, was not just the one student that complained

He was the only one covered in the story.

And kids can be scared/influenced and not do things like let up out of fear.

You can see the abrasion on his finger in the video and get more details.

Growing up in Ohio and being involved in public schools here over the year, in california, and home schooling this is the first time I have ever even heard of this technique. I also used to work for McGraw-Hill and can't recall seeing anything like that there (though I mainly handled the books we did sometimes get requests from the catalogs for classroom supplies - but the ones that mapped to our programs never had anything like that either that I recall seeing).

Not saying it is good/bad - just totally new idea to me.

[HiPointDem]

130. we know *he says* that other students complained. and we know from the teacher's assignment

card *shown on the video* that the assignment was to trace the missed spelling words only FIVE TIMES EACH DAY.

You want to tell me how you got 125 TIMES a day?

[The Straight Story]

140. More her (including that the teacher had previously thrown a shoe at a student)

Maybe she was teaching them to play catch...

that his finger started to bleed by the 125th repetition.

So 25+ plus words 5 times > 125

"According to student reports and parental complaints"

""There are some students complaining that it hurt their fingers and we don't think that's a good way to learn," (School spokesman Steve Hegarty - note he used the plural)

We checked Garrett's personnel file. Her most recent available evaluation rates her "satisfactory." But in 2001, school district officials say she received a letter of caution for throwing a soft shoe at a student.

"They were instructed to trace each word five times. By the 125th word, Josh says his finger started to bleed."

Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_east_hillsborough/brandon/teacher-accused-of-abusing-child-with-sandpaper#ixzz2JzKTl3Eq

[HiPointDem]

167. no. go to the video, which shows the little card with directions the teacher passed out with

the assignment.

it specifically says to trace each *missed* word (the words they got wrong on the test) five times. let me repeat that for you: FIVE TIMES.

so unless he missed every word on the test, and she's giving 25 word spelling tests, he wasn't tracing anything 125 times a day.

she threw a 'soft shoe' in 2001. that's the extent of her 27-year career perfidy.

a 'soft shoe'. you have no idea what that means or what the context was. yet it's all more fuel for the fire to you.

you're another one that likes to post every report of a public school teacher doing something wrong but is nowhere to be found when it's a charter school teacher.

[Demo_Chris]

179. Fair enough, but again I am urging you to test this yourself.

Compared to what she was asking this boy to do, I freaking powersanded my finger. And this is a fact -- until I clicked on the "MY POSTS" tab at the top of this page I had completely forgotten my experiment.

[HiPointDem]

100. it wasn't 125 times in a row.

handed students corrected spelling exams and told students

to trace each corrected word five times on sandpaper, five times a day for five consecutive days.

Josh, 11 years old, tells WFTS that his finger started to bleed by the 125th repetition.

http://www.wtsp.com/video/2125285920001/1/Teacher-suspended-for-making-students-trace-with-sandpaper

florida

Garrett, an educator of 27 years

"We do encourage teachers to think outside of the box and do things that may be more innovative, but..."

it's not innovative. it's a commonly used technique.

you know, the book "pat the bunny" has a sandpaper page too. for similar reasons.

[proud2BlibKansan]

102. OMG Arrest that author!

Take his license to write away!

[HiPointDem]

116. he's a literary abuser!!!! or maybe he's just carrying water for the education deform crowd.

[proud2BlibKansan]

120. Daddy's scratchy face will never again seem the same.

[Bucky]

60. How many of these school teacher horror stories turn out to be overblown or misreported?

[proud2BlibKansan]

97. About 90% of them.

[Whisp]

74. gawd almighty what a horrible teacher. what else did she do in that 27 years.

jaysuz!

[HiPointDem]

101. what a stupid post.

[Whisp]

103. of course the kid is a liar

I forgot about that part. If it's inconvenient, the kid is the liar!

Adults are always straight and true.

let's talk further about stupid posts.

[HiPointDem]

117. i said nothing about the kid, just about the stupid post you wrote. and now you wrote two stupid

posts.

[Whisp]

123. I sure hope you aren't a teacher. n/t

[HiPointDem]

128. i'm not, but i hope you aren't. you're sure johnny-on-the-spot on every teacher-bashing thread,

though.

[Whisp]

129. really? 'every' teacher bashing thread?

please show me because I think my dog may be hacking my DU account while I'm away.

you are making shit up. busted.

[HiPointDem]

132. there are a lot of teacher-bashing threads at DU, so maybe not *every* one. but often enough that

i recognize your handle.

busted.

[Whisp]

146. backing the truck up a bit?

I used to chime in on DU2 when there was a certain poster who continually mislead by her headlines and interpretations of stories and would never admit or apologize when proven beyond a doubt she was wrong.

anyway, that was a long time ago and I really don't dislike teachers as a whole (although I probably complained about my useless stupid assed ones) and recognize that it is a very difficult job under crazy difficult circumstances.

Here on DU3 I doubt if I commented on a 'teacher bashing' post more than a hand full, if that.

[HiPointDem]

150. sure, whisp. sure.

[Whisp]

161. well I noticed that you are 'always' in threads that bash unicorns

and new born puppies!

prove to me that you aren't!

lol. I think we are at the end of the road. so long, have a nice journey.

[HiPointDem]

177. whatever. anyone can check if they care to.

[madfloridian]

88. Found on a search for "sandpaper letters"...

Here are only a few of what I found.

Amazon sells them.

http://www.amazon.com/Tactile-Sandpaper-Lower-Letters-Grades/dp/B002LHF1F4

Christian schools use them.

http://www.abcjesuslovesme.com/materials-to-make/73Z3mommy-tip

It is a Montessori technique that works in regular schools as well. Good article.

http://jola-montessori.com/article/montessori-reading-methods-work-in-traditional-classrooms/

Here's a lesson from Montessori on the internet:

http://montessoritraining.blogspot.com/2010/11/montessori-insights-and-reflections-of_26.html

Many lower grade classrooms have them in stock already made because it is such a traditional technique.

Could a teacher have misused them. Possibly. She is now suspended, will be fired I guarantee. There are no more protections for teachers at all in Florida.

Should her superiors be aware that it is a technique that is not uncommon at all, often used with learning disabled students?

Of course he should have known. But the video showed he had no clue.

[HiPointDem]

111. probably some kind of broadie-bushie administrator, judging from his ignorance about his own field.

A children's favorite because it's fun and a teacher's favorite because it works magically! By engaging the senses in fingertips, motion of the hand, and muscle of the arm, children quickly master letter recognition.


In point of fact, the people on this thread screaming "Lock her up!" aren't interested in the facts, they're pushing an agenda. There are literally a million hits on the internet about "sandpaper letters", but they aren't interested.

http://www.google.com/search?q=sandpaper+letters&hl=en&tbo=d&noj=1&ei=IWQQUe7KM6irigKvwYCADg&start=10&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=607

They prefer to paint the 27-year veteran teacher as an incompetent sadist based on a report out of florida. which has been reported quite differently in different media accounts (they had to do 125 words in one sitting -- oh, wait, it was 5 sittings a day over 5 days!)

It's a hell of a lot more likely that she's being pushed out because she's got so many years in and actually knows how to teach. Being that it's florida.

the geniuses on this board would prefer to sit a young child at a computer 8 hours a day and do drill & kill with a little 'reward' video game at the end. that's their idea of childhood development and educational 'innovation'.

talk about fucking sadists.

[gollygee]

158. I'm weirded out by the idea of

someone who has worked in education for long enough to be promoted to that level who hasn't heard of this. You can buy these letters some places. It's like flash cards but tactile. It is so not a big deal to use them.

This whole thread is crazy. This is my list of crazy threads. It's like being upset that kids have sharp tips on their pencils because some kids were sitting around a table playing a game where they stabbed themselves stupidly with their pencils.

[madfloridian]

166. Yes, it's Number one in crazy threads.

[greytdemocrat]

91. OMG!!!

SPG!!!!

Sand Paper Gate!

[AngryOldDem]

92. WTF.

And there is to be an investigation to determine whether to bring her BACK???

Again...WTF?

Charge her with assault and battery.

[Orrex]

125. I heard that she also made them hit themselves on the head with a hammer

So that they'd learn how to put on a baseball cap.

[HiPointDem]

126. I head she made them carve the alphabet into each other's stomachs. And then eat the cutouts.

[gollygee]

136. The article makes it sound like Delores Umbridge making Harry Potter write

sentences with a pen that carved the words into his arm.

But no, I really doubt a teacher was shaving down her students' fingers to punish them for not knowing a letter. I need to look back and see who reported this because it sounds like the least likely thing I've read in a long time. There's so much teacher bashing going on in news over the past few years, and this sounds like more of it.

[HiPointDem]

178. yes, a couple of posters compared this teacher to Delores Umbridge in all seriousness.

[justabob]

193. actually my post on that subject was poorly delivered snark

...just for clarification. Umbridge was the first thing that came to mind reading the article, and I thought it was sort of funny because the story was so bizarre. I took some licks further down even though I did not ever in this thread call the teacher a moron or call for revocation of her credentials, jailing, etc This thread has been an eye opener. I guess I don't read that many teacher/school threads and didn't realize the history. This has blown up into way more than I expected. Live and learn, I guess.

[HiPointDem]

194. sorry if i misinterpreted your comments.

[justabob]

195. is my fault

I should have clarified much sooner, but thought the thread was going to die quietly. Boy was I wrong.

[gollygee]

131. How hard were they doing it?

This is crazy. This is a really common way to teach letter recognition, and both of my kids' preschools have done it. Kids just lightly run their fingers along the sandpaper - they don't like rub off part of their fingers. The texture is supposed to somehow make it more easily remembered. I don't know how well it works but I know it's crazy common and I've never heard of kids rubbing their fingers hard enough to hurt themselves.

[HiPointDem]

133. thank you. and if they *were* rubbing it with too much pressure, it seems the pain would make

them stop doing so.

and it boggles the imagination that a 27-year veteran would tell a student to 'sit down and shut up,' keep doing the work, when he came to her with a bleeding finger.

[gollygee]

135. It especially seems unlikely

since these days there's a whole protocol when someone is bleeding. It isn't something you can ignore.

[leftstreet]

144. Anti-public school propaganda makes me wanna sandpaper my ass

[The Straight Story]

152. Feel the same way when someone says something about catholic priests/cops/guns/etc

Some folks though are smart enough to see that there are bad apples in everything and calling them out instead of protecting is generally a good idea.

Propaganda to me would be when you want people to believe there are no problems and won't discuss them.

[madfloridian]

168. Who is doing that? We are presenting the teachers' side....that it is an accepted technique.

The rest seem to be appalled with no reason.

[HiPointDem]

171. there are plenty of problems in education. i doubt very seriously that this teacher is one of them.

for anyone who actually knows anything about the subject, there are too many red flags in this story.

1. the various reports can't even get the story straight.
2. it's florida, capital of education deform.
3. the administrator acts like he never heard of this technique, though it's quite common (common enough to be mentioned on the government's Head Start website, for example; common enough that there are 1 million hits on the internet.)
4. She's a 27-year veteran teacher, with a satisfactory rating. The worst thing the papers can find on her is that she threw a 'soft shoe' at a student 11 years ago. Sorry, there are too many scenarios I can think of where such an incident could be completely innocuous.
5. if the boy's finger was burning, he could have stopped doing the exercise, or not pressed so hard (he was clearly pressing too hard). SHE WASN'T HOLDING DOWN HIS FINGER.
6. He says he came to her with a bleeding finger and she told him to sit down, shut up and do the work. I don't believe it. MANDATORY REPORTING OF ALL CLASSROOM INJURIES, AND ALL BLOOD EXPOSURE. A FIRING OFFENSE.

[gollygee]

164. This thread is crazy

If you would have told me that there would be a thread expressing outrage over the use of something as common and that's been used as long as sandpaper letters, I would think you were joking. If you'd told me a bunch of people would agree that it was bad to use sandpaper letters, and even called it assault, I would also think you were joking.

Do people just not recognize normal and accepted teaching methods like this? These have been used for decades and there haven't been problems. If kids were bleeding on these, they'd have to be thrown out and wouldn't get used. But sandpaper isn't dangerous. This is just plain crazy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

165. A+

[HiPointDem]

173. AND "CHILD ABUSE". It's a fucking witch hunt.

[Union Scribe]

188. It's not common to a lot of us

And for many, like me, it's strange. Some of you need to chill out on calling people crazy and anti-teacher and all this other bullshit when it's our first time encountering a method we find odd.

[Starry Messenger]

190. Bingo.

[pauldemmd195j]

174. What in the world?

That teacher is truly sick in the head. How could she be so cruel, to little children? She should be canned ASAP.

[HiPointDem]

175. Here, educate yourself. This is what they were doing. Three-year-olds do it without injury.

[Ed Suspicious]

180. As a guitar player I'll tell you emphatically that repeatedly rubbing un-calloused fingertips across

abrasive surfaces can indeed cause blistering and bleeding. There is a lot of mistrust of children in this thread. That seems odd to me.

[HiPointDem]

183. educate yourself.

[abelenkpe]

182. Preschool Montessori technique

Why it was used for kids aged 11 is beyond me. And to the point they started to bleed? I'm sorry that's just cruel.

[HiPointDem]

184. it's used for older kids for the same reasons as younger ones. sensory-tactile learning.

the assignment was to trace each vocabulary word the teacher had corrected FIVE TIMES.

somehow three year olds can do tasks like this, but this 11-year-old made his fingers bleed.

you'd think the pain would have made him stop before he drew blood.

[Ed Suspicious]

186. 5 times per word, 5 times per day, for 5 days

at a rate of 5 errors, containing 5 letters each, at 5 times per word, 5 times per day for, 5 consecutive days

rub your hand across sandpaper 3125 times and report back.

[HiPointDem]

189. NO. the directions on the video say, and I quote:

You are being given a piece of sandpaper.

With words in your writing that Mrs. Barrett has corrected, or on the 6th grade spelling list on Edline, do the following:

- With the word in front of you out loud spell out the word as you spell it out with your finger on the sandpaper.

- Do this at least five times each day for at least five days in a row.

- Because you are using multiple senses in this activity it will help you remember the word better.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/sandpaper-spelling-assign_n_2581732.html

The assignment card is shown at 10 seconds on the video.

None of the print reporting got it right; all exaggerated the number of times the child was supposed to do the task. All got it wrong in the same direction, which seems odd.

The assignment was to trace each missed word five times per day. NOT TO TRACE EACH WORD FIVE TIMES X FIVE TIMES A DAY.


I play the guitar too, Ed. And I get blisters too sometimes: when I play FOR HOURS after a long layoff when the callouses on my fingers haven't had a chance built up.

That's because I'm PRESSING DOWN VERY HARD ON THE STRINGS. not brushing them lightly.

Your guitar playing experience has nothing to do with this story. Teachers don't asks students to grind their fingers into the sandpaper, they ask them to trace a letter by skimming the surface of the paper.

[left is right]

197. I am not defending the teacher but

my oldest doughtier was severely dyslexic and one of the tricks that helped her the most was tracing letters in materials of all types of textures. We did sponge, sand and sand paper, velvet, we even used pudding on rare occasions. We traced letters once or twice a day and tried as many different feels as possible