Sunday Shooting Review

[Robb]

Here is just some of the gun violence against children from the past week (1/28-2/3) that you should be aware of and which will hopefully motivate you to join the American Academy of Pediatrics and others who are advocating for ways to keep our kids safe:

• A 3 year-old boy was accidentally shot in his apartment; it's still unclear whether he shot himself.


• A 5 year-old girl was accidentally shot while in her home; it's still unclear whether she shot herself.


• A 3 year-old boy shot himself with his father's unattended pistol.


• A 14 year-old boy was shot at school.


• A 2 year-old boy was shot while sitting the back seat of a car.


• A 15 year-old girl and 16 year-old boy were shot while taking cover from a rainstorm.


• A toddler of unspecified age shot himself with an unattended handgun.


• A 16 year-old boy was shot, along with a 22 year-old man, near a park.


• A 1 year-old boy and his mother were shot, along with a 17 year-old, on the sidewalk.


• An 11 year-old boy was shot while in his backyard.


• An 8 year-old girl was shot while standing in front of her home.


• A 2 year-old girl and her father were shot by the child's mother in a domestic dispute.


• A 16 year-old boy was shot in a parking lot.


• A 10 year-old boy was shot by an errant hunter's bullet while sitting in a school bus.


• A 2 year-old boy and his mother were shot in their car.

In the interest of time, I've stopped collecting stories of victims over the age of 16; the list would be a little over twice as long if we went to 18.

Here's to a better week.

[Courtesy Flush]

1. Can someone please also keep a list

of tyrannical governments overthrown by militias each week? Googling gets me nowhere.

[Flashmann]

3. a list of tyrannical governments overthrown by militias each week?

Great idea.....I'd like to see that too...I'd also like to see a list of Countries,like the UK,where gun ownership is heavily restricted,if not banned,where,like the UK ,the general population has been enslaved by the evil government and stripped of all civil rights......

[valerief]

12. Boom! Great idea!!!! nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. Rec'd for that comment alone.

[malaise]

21. Excellent idea

Too good

[Robb]

2. Link to last week's review:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022268410

[Duckhunter935]

4. how many

were from so called "assault weapons" and how many from hand guns?

[Recursion]

5. The breakdown

fatal accident, handgun 1
non-fatal accident, handgun 4
non-fatal accident, rifle 1
aggravated assault, handgun 10

One death, and that was from a kid finding a handgun and shooting himself (this remains by far the #1 way guns kill children).

[jazzimov]

25. So, we need to EXPAND gun control regulations

to include handguns, as well as AW.

That seems pretty obvious.

[Recursion]

27. We can keep banging our heads into the AWB law, or we can admit...

... that if a person can own a semi-automatic rifle, it makes absolutely no difference what shape its grip is. I prefer the latter course.

[Robb]

6. You ask this every week. I ask: illiterate, or troll?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022222987#post5

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022268410#post5

Are you unable to read, or are you just trolling memorial threads to talk about how much you love guns?

[Courtesy Flush]

7. +1

I say troll, but I also don't think assault weapons are the issue. It's the gun culture, and the glorification of gun ownership without the equal regard for gun responsibility.

[geckosfeet]

9. The poster asks every week - and you can't provide a response beyond snark and evasion.

As far as I can see, it's a legit question.

To be fair, most of those articles don't mention the type of firearm involved in the incident. Some mention handgun, pistol or rifle. Some don't mention any type of firearm.

Maybe you can just cut and paste this next time the poster asks:


We don't know the answer to your question. Most of the articles don't identify the type of firearm involved in the incident. Some mention handgun, pistol or rifle. Some don't mention anything. But thanks for you interest.

[awoke_in_2003]

11. Robb, you're not a dingbat.

K&R

[Duckhunter935]

13. yes I do

Because most people here think the new AWB will fix all of this. If you want to make a dent in this horror you need to concentrate on handguns and safe storage requirements. Magazine size and assault type weapons will not help in this.

I like being called a Troll just for asking questions that you do not like.

[Robb]

24. Hm. I don't think so.

An AWB will simply make future gun regulations easier to pass, I believe. On its own it will have limited effect.

But it's a foot in the door. We both know that, I suspect.

[SQUEE]

28. So, a start on the slope so to speak?

Just clarifying.
For those that claim its a red herring or a straw man, you are asking for a beginning, an incremental change.
What point will satisfy you that we are safe enough?

[Robb]

30. When I don't have to do these posts every week.

[SQUEE]

31. Nice slogan, and an admirable ambition.

But an honest less glib answer would be nice.

[Robb]

32. These deaths don't bother you. I get that.

They bother me. And they bother most of us. You'd rather troll these threads and try to rile up people who are tired of kids getting killed.

We all understand exactly what you're about. But I don't intend to take the bait when you attempt to diminish these children's deaths. Your lack of shame does more to help kids like these than any angry retort.

I'll post these threads every week until I don't have to, despite you and yours doing your best to cloud the discussion.

And thanks for the kick.

[SQUEE]

33. But they do bother me .. Shame, you dare?

Enough to advocate safe storage requirements.
Enough to be involved in firearms training.
Enough to believe all life is important, and think being a child doesn't add any bonus point for me.It is a callous and true indifference to life to utilize a persons youth to forward your agenda.
Enough to give reasonable ideas, and educate on substantials not just slogans and SHAMEFUL grave dancing. I have no problem addressing facts, and moving for solutions.

[apocalypsehow]

39. +1,000. Spot-on observation, and 100% accurate. It's amazing the amout of callous arrogance

routinely on display from the 'RKBA' movement and their pals in the NRA.

Thank you for your OP's on this issue; though it is very sad that they are necessary.

[hack89]

37. You kidding?

the only reason it might be the precursor for more gun control is because it will quickly be seen as a colossal failure like the first AWB and you will have to start all over again.

A reasonable chance for major gun control legislation comes around every 20 years or so. And you get one grab at the ring because the political repercussions can be severe and unpredictable. The notion that you are on the verge of a succession of major gun control laws being passed over the next four or five years is delusional. The last AWB was the greatest gift the NRA ever received - it boosted their power immensely. It set the stage for 20 years of gun rights activism that resulted in relaxed gun control laws at the state level all over the country. Look no further then the fact that every state but one has legalized concealed carry.

This may be your only shot at gun control in decades - if you think it wise to piss it away on something with "limited effect" then more power to you.

[Robb]

38. I would think you'd *want* us to "piss it away."

I'm confused -- are you offering advice on how we should best pursue the legislation you wish not to see pass?

Let me indeed pull up a chair.

[apocalypsehow]

41. You can tell they are getting panicky, all of these "this is your only shot at gun control!!!11"

posts. They know the country is trending Blue, and with that trend MORE sensible and meaningful regulation of their deadly little toys is coming in the future. Our great-grandchildren won't be able to walk into Gump's Sporting Goods and purchase and "assault rifle" of any kind, nor likely be able to carry a concealed weapon in public unless they are law enforcement or military or have an employment-related cause (armored car guard; jewelry dealer; etc.)

That day is coming, sooner rather than later and they know it - thus the anger and vitriol and exasperation in their rants.

[hack89]

43. Have you ignored the past 20 years?

we have seen a sweeping liberalization of gun laws at the state level that is unprecedented. It will take you decades to merely get back to where you were in 1992.

It is shades of 1992 all over again - remember everyone doing the happy dance as we stood at the verge of a golden age of gun control?

[apocalypsehow]

44. Case in point highlighting #41's observations right here. I know if *I* were as confident

that my ONE-BIG-ISSUE was going to triumph despite all the meanies trying to restrict it, I wouldn't be on a discussion board ranting desperately about it all the while pretending to an larger ideological and political loyalty I did not hold (which is, of course, what we have going on here). No, I'd just say "let them believe whatever they want."

Instead, we get panicky, angry rants about "1992" and other irrelevancies, right on cue - as expected. Predictable, laughable stuff.

[hack89]

51. Don't you think you should hold off on the happy dance

until your side has actually accomplished something? Pointing out that the everyone from the Vice President down has admitted that there will be no AWB is not a panicky, angry rant - it is merely a recognition of a reality that you are doing your best to ignore.

Secondly, if I was trying to stop the AWB I wouldn't be wasting my time on DU. This is a fucking discussion board for christsake. Nothing gets actually accomplished here - it is a place where people come to have discussions.

[apocalypsehow]

56. Nope: meaningful gun regulation is coming, sport, and with it the end of the gun culture's bloody

hold on American life.

What amuses me no end is the truth that YOUR great-grand children will live in a country that has finally matured and grown up about guns, and they will no more consider it a civilized act to own an assault rifle or strut around Wal Mart with a pistol perched in their pants than we consider "Whites Only" signs at restaurants to be acceptable or civilized today.

That day is coming, bank it.

In the meantime, why are you still here? I'm not interested in what you have to say in defense of your precious guns; most DU'ers have little use for that pro-NRA garbage, either. If you are so confident that the future belongs to "RKBA" (see sig line) than why do you care what we progressives and liberals think about guns or the future of gun control?

I'll tell you why: see #41 above.

Next up: more nonsense insisting we're all wrong while angrily insisting that your angry, panicky rant isn't an angry, panicky rant. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Edit: typo.

[hack89]

66. I guess we will see. nt

[apocalypsehow]

67. We are at last in complete agreement. Have a good evening. n/t.

[farminator3000]

50. we would like to ignore YOUR version of the last 20 years, as it is nra BS

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/map-gun-laws-2009-2012


The NRA Surge: 99 Laws Rolling Back Gun Restrictions
In the past four years a barrage of measures across 37 states have made it easier to own, carry, and conceal firearms.

stop blaming the slimeball gun lobby's crap on some guy on the internet.

[hack89]

42. The AWB would have absolutely no impact on me personally

nor with the vast majority of gun owners. It does not ban anything, is not retroactive, and will be easy to circumvent. So I have never been too concerned about it.

No - my comments are directed more at the baffling ignorance of American political and social reality that so many gun control advocates have. It is shades of 1992 all over again - remember everyone doing the happy dance as we stood at the verge of a golden age of gun control?

It is clear to nearly everyone in America that an AWB will not pass this Congress - between house republicans and Senate Dems from pro-gun conservative states it is DOA. Even Joe Biden understands that. And here you are talking about a foot in the door. I find it highly amusing.

[farminator3000]

55. "It is clear to nearly everyone in America " is another load of BS

also seems to be from a ron paul speech, good for you!

now, who says what about BANS?

TEXAS!!! HAHAHAHAHA!

TexMessage: Poll shows Texans narrowly favor assault weapons ban
Houston Chronicle (blog) ?- 3 days ago
TexMessage: Poll shows Texans narrowly favor assault weapons ban. ... with 60 percent supporting an assault weapons ban and 35 percent ...

Poll: NH residents favor assault weapons ban | Political Scoop ...
www.wmur.com/political-scoop/...favor.../-/index.html
Jan 24, 2013 – Poll: NH residents favor assault weapons ban. 72 percent favor ban, also approve of universal gun background checks. Published 2:54 PM ...

Poll: 62 Percent of Americans Favor Semi-Automatic Assault ...
www.theblaze.com/.../poll-62-percent-of-americans-favor-sem...
Dec 19, 2012 – CNN Poll: 62 Percent of Americans Favor Semi Automatic Assault Weapons Ban. MIAMI, FL – DECEMBER 18: In this photo illustration a Rock ...

Poll: Majorities favor assault weapons ban, background checks ...
firstread.nbcnews.com/_.../16510092-poll-majorities...

Carrie Dann

by Carrie Dann - More by Carrie Dann
Jan 14, 2013 – A major gender gap also remains on the gun issue; women favor an assault weapons ban by almost 20 percentage points over men. Women ...

[apocalypsehow]

59. If that were true you wouldn't be angrily berating the vast majority of DU about it.

The best thing for you to do is simply to go away, and take your act to a discussion board that is for the NRA and further bloodshed at the hands of America's deluded, horrific gun culture. The vast majority don't give a damn what the NRA thinks about any of this - but, of course, you knew that already. You're still here for another purpose, and it has nothing to do with discussion. It does starts with a "D" though...

[apocalypsehow]

61. Wait for it...wait for it...

[hack89]

68. But I like talking to calm, polite, and reasonable people like yourself

why would I even consider leaving DU?

[apocalypsehow]

69. Again, we are in complete agreement: twice in a thread! That's gotta be some kind of record.

2nd half just started; have a good evening.

[farminator3000]

49. "The last AWB was the greatest gift the NRA ever received - it boosted their power immensely." is BS

you seem to be ignoring the fact (again) they GAVE THEMSELVES every gift they've gotten.

and the pols who support them are scum

how many times do i have to remind you, stay on topic please

[hack89]

53. No - voters in every state in the Union took action

in the biggest expansion of gun rights in a long time. You seem to ignore that fact - again.

[farminator3000]

60. more BS i sure didn't vote for any GUNS, and neither did you or anybody else

Democrats generally voted against the measure and Republicans generally voted for it, but the deviations from the party lines tended to correspond to the gun-rights money members had raised for their campaigns.

Among Republicans who accepted no gun-rights contributions in 1997-98, votes were almost evenly split. But among the 150 Republicans who took money from gun-rights contributors, just 12 voted against the amendment. Likewise 152 of the 163 "no" votes by Democrats came from members who accepted no gun-rights money. Of the 44 Democratic members who took gun-rights contributions, 33 favored Dingell’s amendment.
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/guns/House_breakdown.php

there's an ACTUAL fact for ya, try it out for once.

[farminator3000]

48. blah blah blah just stop it

handguns and safe storage requirements. Magazine size and assault type weapons will not help in this.

ask better questions, maybe?

last time i checked, handguns also employ magazines in their shooting process.

google assault pistol or tactial pistol

and go away and drool over them.

[farminator3000]

47. why don't you

answer your own unanswerable question.

and then explain why you would bother asking.

how many people were killed and the gun not found?

how many black market ar-15s changed hands last week? 10,000?

answer those and i'll answer yours.

[farminator3000]

70. stop asking that goddamn question

"If you wanted to know how many Bushmasters have been used in what kinds of crime for the last five years, that information is in ATF's files," says Diaz. "But it can't be released because of the Tiahrt Amendment."
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-nra-vs-america-20130131?print=true

how many times have i told you that?

[Duckhunter935]

73. I do it to piss you off

and to show that the majority of these sad deaths are due to handguns not rifles. That should be where you should be concentrating to help stop this.

So next week I will do the same thing.

[progressoid]

80. I'm sure that makes a lot of difference to those who were shot.

[geckosfeet]

8. All tragic. Quite a variety of assignable causes.

The accidents and unattended gun incidents are imo, training issues.

Guns in the hands of criminals can be reduced by requiring background checks.

If those two actions are 80% effective, the list shrinks by about 70%.

[SheilaT]

10. Once again, it's the guns.

Pure and simple.

[Duckhunter935]

14. and unless

you can confiscate the 300 million odd weapons out there, how are you going to stop it?

[Honest_Abe]

23. Seriously?

We can't stop it, so we shouldn't do anything?
If we don't do something, it will continue to get worse.

[Duckhunter935]

36. Who says that

I have put out a lot of suggestions. I just do not believe in an ineffective approach.

[jazzimov]

26. NO legislation is perfect. But that doesn't mean

that we should have NO laws.

By your logic, we still have crime - therefore the laws aren't working - therefore we should have no laws.

Most of us disagree with that so-called "logic".

[SheilaT]

34. We start by passing some very strict laws

and enforcing them. Just throwing up our hands and saying there's too many guns out there to even try to regulate them is idiocy.

[farminator3000]

79. not a valid question.

obviously, people who don't currently own guns and might want to commit crimes in the future would be stopped from getting them by various laws.

and thousands are confiscated or turned in and MELTED DOWN or SHREDDED (don't cry)

Lately, the police say they are discovering far more guns on the streets of Chicago than in the nation’s two more populous cities, Los Angeles and New York. They seized 7,400 guns here in crimes or unpermitted uses last year (compared with 3,285 in New York City), and have confiscated 574 guns just since Jan. 1 — 124 of them last week alone.

Governments and law enforcement agencies have utilized gun buybacks since the 1970s but the format and structure have varied widely. The first buyback was Baltimore’s, which netted more than 13,000 firearms over three months in 1973, according to the U.S. Public Health Service.

[malaise]

22. Remember the right to guns is more important than

The right to life

[SQUEE]

29. I prefer it be...

a choice, you do respect my right to choose don't you?

[malaise]

40. It's not a choice

The right to life trumps every other right

[Duckhunter935]

54. Thats exactly

what the right says about abortion. They count life from conception. I guess you now see their point.

[malaise]

62. No anti-science moron can tell me when life starts

Sorry

[Duckhunter935]

72. I know I feel the same way

However there are quite a lot of people that feel just as deeply on that issue as you do on guns.

[TxDemChem]

15. This just made me sick to my stomach

Innocent children should never have to die because of these guns. I don't think regular citizens need assault weapons and parents who leave their weapons in any state that makes them available to children should be held accountable. You want a gun, act like a responsible adult or you will be punished like an accessory.

[cantbeserious]

16. Tragic - And Yet The Gun Industry, Gun Apologists And The NRA Press On With Their Propaganda

eom

[jpak]

17. But..but..but these small lives are a small price to pay for Holy Gun FREEDOM!!!!111

[libtodeath]

19. How is this insanity allowed

i weep for this country.

[ellisonz]

35. Time for my weekly: FUCK THE NRA

[farminator3000]

45. gun safety thread- post good advice here- bad gun safety is why these happen...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022303754

thanks Robb! people just don't realize what's going on...

[farminator3000]

46. "Such checks, LaPierre said on “Fox News Sunday,” could lead to “a universal registry of law-abiding

people.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/02/03/reid-supports-expanding-background-checks-unsure-about-assault-weapons-ban/

Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) said he’s unsure whether he will support a ban on assault weapons and restrictions on high-capacity ammunition magazines, but voiced support for increased background checks on firearm purchases in an interview that aired Sunday.

[Duckhunter935]

57. and LaPierre

is an idiot. Most people support increased background checks. Better yet increased background checks with all of the states including mental health data.

[farminator3000]

63. you walked right into THAT one!

so if whiney wayney is an idiot for opposing background checks, that other thing he opposes, the AWB, must be good, too!

in REALITY, most people want gun laws, and the nra are fucking it all up as usual.

An unlikely coalition of gun-rights advocates and firearms opponents joined forces in the House of Representatives on Friday, June 18 to kill gun-control legislation by a 280-147 vote. Gun control advocates, mostly Democrats, said the bill was fatally weakened by an amendment passed early Friday morning. Some gun-rights members opposed even the milder restrictions. see vote.

At issue was a National Rifle Association-backed amendment to the bill sponsored by Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/guns/House_breakdown.php

Democrats generally voted against the measure and Republicans generally voted for it, but the deviations from the party lines tended to correspond to the gun-rights money members had raised for their campaigns.

Among Republicans who accepted no gun-rights contributions in 1997-98, votes were almost evenly split. But among the 150 Republicans who took money from gun-rights contributors, just 12 voted against the amendment. Likewise 152 of the 163 "no" votes by Democrats came from members who accepted no gun-rights money. Of the 44 Democratic members who took gun-rights contributions, 33 favored Dingell’s amendment.

[Duckhunter935]

71. In a way I really hope

the new AWB does go through. It will do nothing to prevent these stories as they are 99% handguns and not rifles. Even then they are not banned and new versions will just be manufactured without the pistol grip. As I am sure you know I am for many things that may actually help. The hysteria of a new ban has just sent gun buying skyrocketing and many of those people have no idea on fundamentals of gun safety. I disagree with many things uncle Wayne says but on the AWB he is really right. Banning weapons for features and looks but not function is just plain STUPID.

[farminator3000]

78. no you don't

and you are too lame to explain how a 30 round mag isn't function
or a how a pistol grip that lets you remove the stock isn't function
or a silencer on a rifle isn't...

blah blah same crap over and over.

Of the top 15 gun manufacturers, 11 now manufacture assault weapons, many of them variants of the AR-15 – derived from a military rifle designed to kill enemy soldiers at close-to-medium range with little marksmanship. The industry loves these "modern sporting rifles" because they can be tricked out with expensive scopes, loaders, lights and lasers. "Most of the money is in accessories," says Feldman.

As one gun rep recently boasted to an industry publication: "The AR platform is like Legos for grown men."

you like deadly legos.

"The net of all the numbers is that if you're a company with a strong line of high-capacity pistols and AR-style rifles, you're doing land-office business. If you're heavily dependent on hunting, you are hurting."
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-nra-vs-america-20130131?print=true

Feldman is more succinct, calling his former employer a "cynical, mercenary political cult."

[99Forever]

52. Be careful not to offend the Delicate Flowers ...

... by making the inference that their *The Precious* might have had something to do with these things happening.

[Duckhunter935]

58. Nice

Like the name calling, that definitely helps the level of discussion

[99Forever]

65. Did I offend your delicate sensibilities?

I'm crushed I tell ya. The Delicate Flowers are so easily bruised and hurt.

[Duckhunter935]

74. nope

just calling it as I see it. Name calling does not help.

[99Forever]

76. Name calling?

[Logical]

75. If the jury system worked your post would be locked. n-t

[Duckhunter935]

77. I do not alert

I like to let people see some of the contempt shown by some of the posters

[Thinkingabout]

64. The hardnosed gun owners who listen to the NRA get upset and ready to start civil unrest

When the real problem is guns in homes not properly stored and kids get them and bad things happen. As in the case of the Sandy Hook, improper weapons was in the home he resided in and he took them and killed innocent people. They was not out attacking his home so he did not need the weapons to defend himself or his family. Gun regulation is needed because the industry refuses to regulate itself. This is not something which can continue, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!! We will continue to work towards sensible gun safety, we are not trying to take sensible guns, we are trying to protect innocent American citizens.