'Revenge porn' is about degrading women sexually and professionally

[Judi Lynn]

'Revenge porn' is about degrading women sexually and professionally

What does it say about society that websites where angry men shame their ex-lovers are thriving?

Jill Filipovic
guardian.co.uk, Monday 28 January 2013 17.23 EST

In the centuries-old tradition of human beings looking at images of other human beings naked, the internet is perhaps the biggest game-changer since the film camera.

Porn sites are some of the most-visited places on the web, and just about anything you could imagine (and lots of things you probably couldn't have come up with on your own) is a mere Google search away. While that's great news for folks who have, say, an unrequited zombie fetish or a deep desire to see old men swaddled in mohair diapers, the almost entirely unregulated buffet of internet pornography also has a whole host of downsides – one of the most odious being the popular genre of "revenge porn".

On revenge porn sites, users upload x-rated photos of women (often ex girlfriends or lovers) without the women's permission. Send a naughty photo to your boyfriend and when it turns out he's a pig, your image is all over the internet, often with your name, location and links to your social media accounts. The purpose of revenge porn isn't to allow regular guys the opportunity to see some naked girls-next-door; it's explicitly purposed to shame, humiliate and destroy the lives and reputations of young women.

Luckily, some of those women are refusing to be shamed into silence. More than two dozen of them have filed a lawsuit against one of the websites, Texxxan.com, as well as its host, GoDaddy.com. Some of the women have lost their jobs; all of them have been exposed and exploited, first by men they trusted and then by entities simply looking to make a buck off of misogyny.

More:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/28/revenge-porn-degrades-women

[redgreenandblue]

1. A piece of shit once cheated on me and left.

I had explicit material of her (given to me legitimately at an earlier time). I deleted it. Guys who distribute such stuff have no honor.

[Sherman A1]

2. Agreed

They indeed have no honor. I believe you have summed it up very well with that simple yet effective observation. I think the ladies involved need to at the very least include their ex's in the lawsuit if they have not done so.

[SwissTony]

3. I have explicit stuff of a couple of old girlfriends

I keep it encrypted on my hard drive. No-one will ever see it nor has anyone ever seen it (except the GF). Even if I had issues with a GF, I'd never subject them to that.

[mattvermont]

54. I would think that you

would then delete it.? What value does it have to you? Do you look at it?

[SwissTony]

61. Occasionally

but more in a sentimental way rather then sexual.

There's also non-nude photos in there. It's how I remember the relationship.

[sendero]

8. Exactly..

..... I understand being angry at an ex, boy do I. But there IS a line, and revealing intimate photos/video crosses it and then some.

I doubt if anyone has legal recourse over this sort of thing unless it can reasonably be proven that the materials were created without the consent of the parties involved. Being legal doesn't make it right though, and what ever happened to just being right?

[NewJeffCT]

18. Good for you

however, a lot of guys out aren't as honorable as you. And, it only takes a small percentage for it to become popular - even if only 1 guy in 10 whose girlfriend or wife cheated on and/or dumped them did something like this, it's a significant number.

I was in a similar situation to you, though my ex-wife didn't cheat AFAIK (she just spent me into near bankruptcy...) . However, once early in our relationship, she dared me to take pictures of her large chest while topless, and I did. However, I never distributed the pictures anywhere or showed them to anybody, and eventually destroyed them a year or two after our divorce was final. When she moved out, she took all of her possessions, but forgot the topless pictures of herself, surprisingly. However, the thought did cross my mind at the time, "Well, if she ever becomes famous, I could make money selling them to the National Inquirer like Dr. Laura's ex." I'd never heard of "revenge porn" at the time, or sites like that. While I doubt I would have done it, how many guys would resist the temptation, especially if they needed some cash and/or really hated their ex? It's 100% wrong to do it, but I can certainly see how it has happened.

[redgreenandblue]

19. Well....

...I hated her very much at the time (believe me she really pulled some extremely nasty shit, dishonest towards several people...) and to be honest it did cross my mind for a little while to do something with those pictures (not put them on the web but maybe send them to her new dude) but I somehow felt that it was wrong and that even if she deserved it every bit (which she did) such a thing was below me. In retrospect, I am very glad that I felt that way at the time.

It may seem like a platitude, but in some situations really everything that you have left is your dignity and your honor, and if you manage to hold on to these things then you remain undefeated. I am glad I held on to my honor. That way now, many years later, I don't have to look back at something that I regret.

To this day her family thinks highly of me, and this is worth more to me than revenge.

As a person above has pointed out: Even when you are in the middle of a full scale shit slinging match, there is a line you should not cross, for your own good.

[NewJeffCT]

20. great perspective

Oddly, my ex-wife may have been the most talkative/outgoing person I've ever met, but since our divorce was finalized in 2000, we've barely communicated. We exchanged a few emails in 2005 or 2006, and ran into each other in a very unusual location last year.

So, I have no idea if her family hates me or not, other than one time when she first filed for divorce and moved out, she said that her parents didn't hate me. They live in NJ, and I'm in CT, so I'd have to go out of my way to even see them. My ex did say that she didn't hate me when we exchanged those emails several years back, but then it was also clear that listening was still not a strong suit of hers in that email exchange.

[seabeyond]

30. thanks red, and all the men in this subthread. an example of being the better person... absolutely.

right on.

[redgreenandblue]

43. No thanks needed.

But you're welcome

[seabeyond]

29. exactly. thank you for saying it the way it is. she can be a piece of shit. and if a man puts the

pictures out for revenge, he too would be that piece of shit. it would not be about her.

[smirkymonkey]

65. Thank you for being an honorable man.

I am so sorry for what that person did to you. Please do not believe that all women are like that. We aren't. I hope you find someone deserving of you someday.

[redgreenandblue]

69. Thanks for your kind words.

I believe that maybe I have found someone We have been together for nearly six years now.

[Tunkamerica]

4. There's no revenge porn perpetrated on men?

I find that hard to believe in this day and age.

[gollygee]

10. Are there web sites devoted to it?

We looked into this in the last thread. No there aren't.

[Recursion]

11. The site that started it all got in trouble after posting a male musician

Though IIRC it was posted by a jilted male lover, so I'm not sure where that takes this question; that one had started as mostly self-submissions (and was kind of hot at the beginning) but devolved into what we now know and hate as revenge porn.

[LanternWaste]

22. What leads you to believe that statement has been posed?

" There's no revenge porn perpetrated on men?"
What precisely leads you to believe that statement has been posed? Unless of course you believe the premise of the story denies the existence of any other type of revenge porn... but that would simply be an idiotic conclusion.

"I find that hard to believe in this day and age..."
That disbelief often happens when based on our own hypothetical questions.

[Tunkamerica]

75. It was a question.

Thanks for calling me an idiot, or one who comes to idiotic conclusions. I'm guessing you too fall into this trap on occasion, but that often happens when you make assumptions about someone's character or motives based on two sentences.

[Romulus Quirinus]

23. I'm sure the Red Army molested some men on the way into Berlin

But really, there is no sense of proportionality to be found here.

[Jim Lane]

42. I'd guess that the double standard enters into it.

Suppose a man and a woman, standing naked together in front of a mirror, take a photo of themselves, and it winds up online. To many people, that photo would prove that the man was a stud and the woman was a slut.

As a result, revenge porn is more effective revenge against a woman than against a man. I wouldn't want to see such pictures of myself online but I'll bet that the impact on me would be much less than that on a woman.

[redqueen]

49. Like clockwork...

WHATABOUTTHEMENZ?!?!?!?!?!

[JI7]

5. expose them, give their names and faces , post it online

[ObaMania]

6. I suppose if you're gonna send pics like that, you'd have to expect at some point it'd be exposed.

Jus' sayin'.

[nomorenomore08]

7. To the whole world? Of course not. Otherwise no one would agree to be photographed/filmed

in such a way, by or for an intimate partner. It's not like these women are aspiring porn stars - the "material," in nearly all these cases, was intended only for private use. And these "revenge porn" sites are a blatant violation of that implicit agreement.

This whole thing, if nothing else, is astonishingly mean-spirited...

[Recursion]

12. The only positive outcome is that even some of the creepers are saying that now

Stuff like "dude, don't email her parents because then girls will never take naked pictures again".

[bullwinkle428]

16. You do realize that in some cases, these women were photographed/filmed

without their consent. It's not like they all "posed" for these shots!

[EastKYLiberal]

41. I only feel for those photographed/filmed against their will. That's pathetic. nt

[redqueen]

50. Thank you for alerting us to your status. nt

[seabeyond]

31. ya. cause that is a stand up man. right. nt

[EastKYLiberal]

40. Agreed. Especially if you cheat on the person in possession of these images/videos. nt

[seabeyond]

44. then you become the creep, bottomfeeder, scum. that simple. nt

[JNelson6563]

9. Low-life assholes.

Men who do this are truly scum. With that being said, I cannot imagine being foolish enough to let anyone film anything I wouldn't let the rest of the world see.

Julie

[Are_grits_groceries]

13. Most revenge is meant to bring

people down and humiliate them.
Revenge porn happens to be especially degrading and it hurts because it can come from someone that was trusted.

[Arcanetrance]

14. I'm not a lawyer nor do I pretend to have a great knowledge of the law

But given the repercussions to the victims I would think things like this could be prosecuted as a former of rape or as a some sort of sexuality crime. Please don't flame my ignorance

[Ter]

26. Rape?

It's nowhere's near as horrific as rape. The woman consented to the photos? Sure, she didn't consent for everyone to see, but it's not rape at all.

[marions ghost]

33. There is a kind of rape that is not literally physical

but just as damaging psychologically--glad you have never experienced it.

[Arcanetrance]

36. Yes rape

This is a form of rape it is horrific the victims of it can lose work and suffer just as much emotional trauma knowing these things are out there. Rape goes beyond just the physical aspect its about control plain and simple and these guys who post it post it as kind of their last everlasting act of control over these women

[Ter]

46. Real rape is still worse

n/t

[Arcanetrance]

47. Real rape wow reminds me of the term legitimate rape

[Ter]

63. Let's not go there

Forcefully taking someone's clothes off and having sex against her will is far worse than showing a consenting picture to friends or putting in online. Anyone who thinks it's the same is an idiot.

[Arcanetrance]

64. A consenting picture between her and the person she gave it too

This person now puts it online where everyone in the world can see. This person is now in a vulnerable state billions around the world now can see her naked and whatever act that was recorded. She than faces ridicule by friends that may see it possible loss of employment and emotional trauma that will lead her to maybe never trust again. She may not have had the physical aspect but the emotional and psychological factor is there. So maybe I am stupid

[Ter]

66. Still not remotely comparable to forcefully taking off clothes and having forced sex

So maybe you are.

[Arcanetrance]

67. I've been in the position of being raped when I was 8 I was raped

So if you want to call me an idiot go ahead but kindly do me a favor tell me what you know on the subject

[Ter]

70. I'm sorry to hear that, and you suffered far more than some yahoo showing his ex naked

Posing nude is always a risk. Unless it was taken candidly by the ex boyfriend...

[seabeyond]

72. ah, so now it is the womans fault anyway.... and not the creeps? nt

[Arcanetrance]

74. Yeah I guess I get caught up in things and let my emotions get the best of me

I feel bad for those that get taken advantage of

[Ter]

81. We may not agree on this, but I have another question for you

Suppose someone goes to a nude beach and takes a candid picture of a woman naked. Would you feel that that is rape as well?

[seabeyond]

71. do we really need a vile creep scale? this creep is only disgusting. but THIS creep is vile.

really?

both abuse. both are disgusting people. both lack character and integrity. both.... are bottom feeders.

[dairydog91]

27. I don't know if the act is criminalized.

Probably grounds for a civil suit, if the victim can prove that the poster actually posted the photos.

[seabeyond]

32. i think our laws have to catch up with tech. nt

[pnwest]

15. Filed under the category: "Well, DUH..." What the hell

else would it be about?

[randome]

35. But it's 'extra special' revenge if a naked picture is involved.

Sometimes revenge and hate are just that.

[Orrex]

17. How widespread is this phenomenon?

Not trying to trivialize it; I simply don't know, and my workplace filters won't take kindly to me googling the subject just now...

The whole issue seems problematic for a host of reasons, not least being the question of exacly what level of permission is granted by the act of stepping before a camera and transmitting a picture. What constitutes "fair use" in that scenario?

Decades ago I was knowingly captured on video acting like an asshole while employed as a manager of a Hardee's restaurant. I wasn't naked, but I was an unambiguous jerk; if that video were to surface with the intent to shame me, what recourse would I have? How would that differ from the sharing of a picture that I deliberately sent to another person?


It's pretty sick and juvenile that someone would get kicks from posting or viewing these "revenge" pictures, but it's also a sad commentary on society that the revelation of such images can humiliate a person in the first place.

[gollygee]

21. I think the level of privacy involved is an issue

If you were a jerk in public, or even naked in Hardee's, then IMO it's fair game.

But a photo taken of you naked privately intended for one person doesn't mean you've consented to that photo being distributed publicly.

And my understanding is that some of these photos/videos were taken without the woman's knowledge, with a hidden camera. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I imagine anyone here would agree that it is wrong to do that. I'm sure that's illegal right now, but I feel like distributing a private nude image/video without consent should be illegal as well.

[Orrex]

28. Good answers--thank you

I agree 100% that the distribution of clandestinely-shot nude/intimate photos should not be distributed. Hell, if the subject hasn't given permission, then the pictures shouldn't be taken at all.


And for the record, I maintain that I was not naked at Hardee's, and that will continue to be my story until someone can produce the video to demonstrate otherwise.

[SwissTony]

38. If the subject has not given permission, the photos should not be taken.

Even if the subject gave permission, they should not be distributed without permission.

Two issues. Therefore, two degrees of permission.

And for the record, I wasn't naked at Hardee's either. I don't even know what Hardee's is.

[seabeyond]

24. i am told by too many. it is the womens fault. and we should expect no more from men.

we call the women all kinds of stuff. and the men gets a pass on name calling.

[Judi Lynn]

25. Hideously twisted in every way. Thanks. n/t

[Fawke Em]

37. I was just wondering why no one says to the guys posting this stuff

to social media, "Hey! Why are you looking at this in the first place? You'd have to be one sick bastard to go to a site that's only purpose is to terrorize someone."

[seabeyond]

39. yes. and that is what i pointed out in the other two threads. the men that use they sites to get off

is as bad and a cripe and contributing to this vile behavior as those that put up the pictures.

i agree with you absolutely. takes a bottomfeeder to go to the sites.

[dawg]

34. These stupid men are going to ruin it for the rest of us.

No more sexy photos of our wives and girlfriends!

They won't be willing to risk it until they've been married to us for 20 years.

[SWTORFanatic]

58. No offense, but you could never get me to take a naked pic of myself.

[MissMillie]

45. Why would anyone need to send naughty photos of themself

to anyone else? There's enough porn on the internet already.

[gollygee]

51. I'm not sure where you're going with this

It sounds like you're saying that you don't approve of them taking naked photos of themselves in the first place, so they don't deserve any protection from the photos being distributed publicly. But maybe I'm not understanding you.

[MissMillie]

82. my comment is not about "protection"

In theory, I think anyone who posts a picture of me w/o my permission should do it understanding that I have legal recourse.

In practice, this might clog un the court system and make getting any legal action done on any cases.

So, to be practical about this, if your partner likes porn, maybe the best way to protect yourself is to let your partner get their porn on the internet. Save yourself the embarrassment, the legal hassle and a lot of headaches.

[redqueen]

52. Why should anyone have to explain their sexual kicks, to anyone not involved?

If no one is being hurt, and everyone is a consenting adult and enjoying the act, who else's business is it?

And as for the "here is my note from an authority", "socially approved" reason ... people in long-distance relationships.

I guess in addition to explaining themselves to those who require explanations, that would also earn them a pass from those who otherwise only feel for those whose sexy pictures were taken without their knowledge.

[MissMillie]

83. It isn't anyone's business

but apparently for a lot of people that's not the reality, is it?

Only one guaranteed way to make sure it's NEVER anyone's business.

And yeah, I do have some empathy for these folks. But I'll tell you what--I'll bet most of them would say "I learned my lesson." Which would imply that there is some sort of lesson to be learned.

[slackmaster]

48. Men (and women) who promulgate it degrade themselves as much as their targets

It's reprehensible behavior.

[raccoon]

53. I tell you, this sort of thing makes me glad I'm old. nt

[SWTORFanatic]

57. Not old here. Never taken a naked pic, never will.

[Hekate]

55. I think you all should read the entire article at the link

The author was stalked by male classmates (plural) as a law student. She was targeted for being female. And it just went on and on.

She has no naked pictures out there, but she has a lot of understanding and an excellent perspective.

[SWTORFanatic]

56. Said it twice already, will say it again. DO NOT TAKE NAKED PICTURES OF YOURSELF

It's fucking wrong - whether the person photographed consented to be photographed or it was a hidden camera deal. Unless of course that person also consented to the photos being put online.

That said, still as a precaution, DO NOT TAKE NAKED PICTURES OF YOURSELF.

I am a lesbian. I have had male friends who have seen pictures of my face/body, but never naked! Some of course ask. One was even genuinely STUNNED that I had never taken a naked picture of myself.

I would never send them naked pics. Hell, I wouldn't even take naked pics with my wife of 9 years - I trust her, but you never know who could end up getting those pictures at some point. Stolen computer, whatever. Even encrypted. Hells to the no.

[trumad]

59. I'm taking one right now...

if I can just adjust this webcam.

Stay tuned.

[Skittles]

77. SCHEDULING TRUMAD FOR ASS KICKING

*EGREGIOUS*

[Hekate]

60. More from the link

And that is, fundamentally, what these revenge porn sites are about. They aren't about naked girls; there are plenty of those who are on the internet consensually. It's about hating women, taking enjoyment in seeing them violated, and harming them.

The owners to Texxxan.com practically said as much when, in defending their website, they posted a message saying, "Maybe [sic] the site provided an outlet for anger that prevented physical violence (this statement will be very controversial but is at least worth thinking about)." In other words, these are men who hate women to the degree that they'd be hitting them if they didn't have revenge porn as an outlet for their rage. They're angry because women have the nerve to exist in the universe as sexual beings.

Right now, the law and our culture are both on the side of those who shame and humiliate women for sport, instead of those of us who just want to go about our normal lives, whether that's going to law school or having sex with our boyfriends, without putting our careers, our reputations, our psychological well-being and our basic ability to trust the people we're closest with on the line. Here's hoping we win the long game.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/28/revenge-porn-degrades-women

[redqueen]

62. THANK YOU! nt

[mythology]

68. If the only way to avoid physical violence against somebody

is to emotionally violate them, can I please join a new species?

I mean what happened to hitting a punching bag, or some other form of exercise until you collapse, or eating a pint of ice cream or getting a new hobby? I mean if somebody hurts you that badly, I'd rather just walk away. Nothing good comes from acting in haste or anger if you can help it.

I get that getting dumped or cheated on sucks, but in the case of dealing with an abusive dad, I didn't feel the need to hit him back or try to emotionally damage him like he did me, I just decided to live my life in a sort of defiance of him. It's a far better revenge to not be like him.

[seabeyond]

73. i told hubby this one last night. he just shook his head in disgust.... he truly cannot believe

some of the things i tell him, that i learn on du.

[ZombieHorde]

76. "While that's great news for folks who have, say, an unrequited zombie fetish"

Hey, leave me out of this!!!

[LittleBlue]

78. Do NOT take pictures of yourself, or expect it to get shown

1) You take a picture of yourself nude, don't share, it's only on your laptop/phone. IT CAN GET HACKED!

2) You give a nude pic to your BF or GF. GUESS WHAT? PEOPLE BREAK UP!

3) You give the pic to your wife/husband. HALF OF ALL MARRIAGES END IN DIVORCE!

You store a digital photograph of yourself anywhere, or give it to anyone, for any purpose, you're taking a risk it will be made public. Don't risk it!

[ManiacJoe]

79. A DMCA take down notice to the ISP might do the trick.

Without a model release, all parties in the video have claim to the copyright.

[Warren DeMontague]

80. It's funny, the people in this thread congratulating themselves for never taking a naked photo.

As well as offering commandment-like Moses on the Mountain edicts to everyone else about "NEVER DOOO THIS!!!!!! EVER!!!!"

It's on topics like this that DU shows its, well, age. Sorry, folks- that cat is out of the barn. The horse has left the station. All the kings horses and all the kings men will not put the walrus back together; the Walrus being Paul.

With the advent of digital cameras, cell phone cameras, etc. etc. it was INEVITABLE that people would start taking pictures of themselves and their partners in flagrante delicto, as it were. Hell, some here (or their parents) may have Polaroids or VHS tapes of similar stuff, in attic shoeboxes, dating back a few decades. This is what people, often, do. They like having sex and lots of times they like taking pictures of it- and they like the way they (or their partners) look naked, and they take pictures of that too...

That said- I've stated before and I'll state again that the "revenge porn" thing is reprehensible; and the entire concept of free expression of sexuality on places like the net is predicated, to my mind, on the concept of consenting adults. Where you don't have consent; there ought to be repercussions available. Laws, civil sanctions, violation of privacy, etc. etc.

However, again, edicts like "don't EVER give anyone a naked picture"- okay, that might be good advice for some people in some relationships, sure- but it discounts the millions of people in good relationships who do this and really have no reason to be made to feel bad about it. Yes, a good relationship should be based on trust- long term trust, trust that the other person will do the right thing even if the relationship itself goes WAY south; and I would posit that, along with not sharing naked pictures, there are LOTS of things "you shouldn't do" with someone you can't bring yourself to that level of trust with- from having sex without a condom to making a baby (or even both at the same time)... Commitment and trust. Not all relationships make it that far, nor should or can they.

One more thing, my personal advice- there are more options beyond just "give a naked picture and hope for the best" or "don't ever give a naked picture"; I'd add, as a 3rd option, the "mutual assured destruction" option. That is, if you're going to share naked pictures with, say, a boyfriend with whom you fathom a day might come when you'd regret what that person might do with them, make DAMN SURE before you do so you get a picture of them doing something so ridiculous, hideously disgusting or embarrassing, you know there's no way he'll ever misuse the nude shots of you he's got. Doing what, how, where? I don't know. Rubber Chickens, Ronald McDonald outfit, Feather Duster creatively placed.... use the old imagination. Different people have different pressure points, of course- and some folks are simply impossible to shame.

But, it's another option.