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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBiden to doomsday preppers: Shotguns are better than AR-15s in earthquakes
Vice President Joe Biden is trying to assure survivalists and those preparing for doomsday that they will still be able to protect themselves in case of disaster even if assault weapons are banned because shotguns are more effective weapons for defense.
During a Google Hangout discussion about gun control, YouTube video blogger Philip DeFranco asked the vice president why an assault weapons ban was necessary if the number of murders had gone down since the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act temporarily banning some military-style rifles expired in 2004.
So what would you say to the people who say, yes, you are infringing on our rights, not for sporting or for hunting, but in California, everyone talks about the big earthquake or some terrible natural disaster as a last line of defense, DeFranco wondered. What would you say to those people?
A shotgun will keep you a lot safer a double-barreled shotgun than the assault weapons in somebodys hands that doesnt know how to use it, even one that does know how to use it, Biden advised. You know, its hard to use an assault weapon and hit something than it is a shotgun.
If you want to keep people away in an earthquake, buy some shotgun shells, he added. Im must less concerned quite frankly about what you would call an assault weapon than I am about magazines and the number of rounds that can be held in a magazine.
Raw Story (http://s.tt/1yUqA)
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)I have several hundred of those babies on hand at the moment. Bring on the giant asteroids!
Bandit
(21,475 posts)Shotguns are for close range which home defense is... A pistol would also be better than a rifle for close quarters however in very close quarters nothing can beat the old 12 guage...
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I agree with Joe.
The likelihood that something like an AR15 or AK will really make a difference to survival is very small and fits a post-apocalyptic WW3 scene, not natural disaster or home defense.
Their weapons of war, not weapons of defense, even under prepper scenarios.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)car and drove to a friends house since our place was tagged as uninhabitable. My car was a soft top convertible and at night I caught three guys, one with a knife trying to cut out the back window and steal our stuff. I yelled and chased them away. After a couple blocks I returned to my car and my boyfriend (now my hubby) asked me what I was doing chasing a bunch of thieves down a dark alley all by myself. What? It worked for Han Solo...
nick of time
(651 posts)across from Cal State Northridge, but at the time it was called San Fenando Valley State College.
We lived on Balcom Av. right off of Nordoff St., I was visiting my mom when the earthquake hit.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)You were at the very center of that horrible quake. I was at Cal Arts at the time. The school was wrecked, our apartment too. I hope you and your family were OK!
Response to abelenkpe (Reply #18)
nick of time This message was self-deleted by its author.
0rganism
(23,955 posts)i'm tempted to go with "flame thrower", but they're practically useless for home defense...
We need a well-researched, tabular breakdown of optimal weapons for various doomsday scenarios.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)CAT GUN!
Belt Fed!
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)(though I'm having trouble finding a high quality Youtube video of Adam and his cat launcher - the copyright Gestapo must have taken them down.)
Oh well, we make do...
http://www.220.ro/desene-animate/Family-Guy-Adam-West-S-Cat-Launcher/xs8KeAcAez/
sarisataka
(18,656 posts)I would prefer a helmet to any gun. I can sort out the details after I get out of the rubble.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)I just can't think of any other country that has some people whose concern for earthquakes, hurricanes or whatever is "how can I finish of some of my desperate fellow survivors". Has it ever actually happened in the USA? Did people turn on each other after the 1906 SF earthquake, for instance? There was the case of the New Orleans police officers killing 2 people, but, apart from them, is turning to a state of murderous violence something that has happened?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)If it's good enough for the Hobbit Master, it's good enough for me. Plus you can use it to cut grass when there aren't any zombies around.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)I'm not opposed to somebody defending their house from an intruder, especially in times when police are overwhelmed and may not respond for a few hours.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)When you read reports of natural disasters outside the USA, it doesn't seem to be much about people robbing each other, breaking into homes, and so on. People seem to concentrate more on helping each other. And, to be fair, that's the impression I generally get of disasters in the USA too. But if your impression, from, I take it, inside the USA, is that Americans have a tendency to attack each other, then I yield to your closer knowledge.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)going to stave off the creditors after so many of my clients fled town.
Politicub
(12,165 posts)AR 15s and firearms like them have one purpose - to kill a lot of whatever it is you're shooting at (people, etc.) or slow down a zombie onslaught. Not really home protection.
If you really are serious about home protection, a shotgun is the way to go since you just need to point it vaguely in the direction of whatever you want to hit.
I've learned more than I would ever want to know about guns because of the Newtown tragedy. And the more I learn the more my blood boils that people actually oppose banning assault weapons and high capacity magazines.
sarisataka
(18,656 posts)you can't miss with a shotgun
Some misconceptions may exist regarding the spread of shotgun pellets or balls. It is not enough to merely point the shotgun in the general direction of an assailant and let fly. Birdshot or buckshot does not create a huge cone of death and destruction that devastates everything in its path. Rather, for a defense or "riot" shotgun with an 18- to 20-inch cylinder or improved cylinder choked barrel, the pellets will spread out about one inch for every yard of range traveled. Across a large room of 18 feet or so, the spread will only be about 6 inches, a circle as big as a coffee cup saucer. At 50 feet, the spread will only be about 16 inches, the size of a large pizza. It is obvious from these patterns that a shotgun blast will not incapacitate multiple assailants at close range. Each would have to be given "individual attention".
However:
The shotgun must be skillfully aimed and fired. Aiming is just not quite as precise as that required for a handgun or rifle to score multiple hits on an aggressor. The massive firepower of the shotgun will likely produce a favorable outcome in any self defense encounter.
Politicub
(12,165 posts)sarisataka
(18,656 posts)I like to help people out. I wouldn't want someone to say something silly like a shotgun will hit anything that is thataway without knowing such a statement is untrue. It would be like saying a Kia can go over 200mph; it probably can if dropped from an airplane.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Shotguns do not spread at household ranges, your "point it vaguely in the direction of whatever you want to hit. " is nonsense
Politicub
(12,165 posts)The trait of gun nuts... excuse me, enthusiast, that is annoying above all is the know it all attitude.
You can get more out of a discussion with the computer program Eliza than engaging in a gun thread.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Be glad to do it again if you would like to see how low the spread from shotguns is at household ranges. That includes 00 Buck or bird shot.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)At least according to your post.
The average spread of 12 gauge 00 buck shot from an 18 inch barrel is one inch per yard traveled. Longer barrels mean less spread.
Your 20 foot room will give you a spread of about 7 inches.
Your 75 foot house will give you about 25 inches, the average width of a person.
Contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe, shotguns do need to be aimed, not pointed, if you want to hit your target.
trof
(54,256 posts)A double barrel gives you only two shots.
A slide action gives you at least three plus the sound of the slide snicking back and forth is SO intimidating.
Wait...why are we talking about this?
Fla_Democrat
(2,547 posts)Of course, Lord Humongous, did have the .44 magnum. Seem to recall it doing more damage to the truck, than Max's double barrel did to Lord Humongous.
NickB79
(19,247 posts)So long as I get to have one of these when it comes time to stop the looters and rioters: http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/shotguns/ksg/
If loaded with short Centurion or Aquila shells, you could theoretically hold 20 rounds of 12-gauge buckshot in one gun!
Holds more then 10 rounds. It needs to be banned!
<sarcasm>
madville
(7,410 posts)Doesn't that make them a better choice for some survival or defense situations? The idea that a less effective weapon would be a superior choice in every scenario doesn't make much sense. Any weapon could be a hindrance or advantageous depending on the scenario.
I do agree that a shotgun would be a good all around single weapon for an inexperienced user. I have a Remington 870 12 gauge with a magazine extension so it can hold 7 rounds, they can be quite accurate, especially with rifled slugs.
Of course the correct answer is "Have both" then your weapon choice can be tailored to the situation. Truck full of looters coming up the road to the house, grab the assault weapon, looters trying to crawl into the house through some windows, grab the shotgun. Of course you could always have your handgun on your hip for a backup gun.
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 24, 2013, 10:48 PM - Edit history (1)
A shotgun will keep you a lot safer a double-barreled shotgun than the assault weapons in somebodys hands that doesnt know how to use it, even one that does know how to use it, Biden advised. You know, its hard to use an assault weapon and hit something than it is a shotgun.
No Joe... that's silly. Any gun in the hands of an ignorant person is extremely dangerous. And at self-defense distances, a shotgun is pretty much king-of-the-hill in destructive power. I don't see how the AR15 is somehow safer. And you still have to "aim" a shotgun accurately to hit anything... even at 20 yards, a cylinder bore buckshot shot pattern may only spread about a 12" or so - so careful aiming is STILL required. Real world is not hollywood, Joe.
Personally, I would use my shotgun (a Pump Action Shotgun) and not because of Joe's silly reasons above. I'd use my pump action because it's handier than an AR15, pump action is more reliable and it has way more firepower; it's about 1 pound lighter than an AR, 7" shorter, and holds 15 rounds of 12ga 00B (9 pellets per shot). But if I didn't have my shotgun available, I'd have no problem using an AK or MAC11 or something. Then again, my home is in an Ohio suburb... hardly an area with significant disaster risk.
12ga Pump Shotgun (left), 50 round P90s (center), 16" AR15 Carbine (right)
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Why not keep both on hand....if you're doomsday prepping?
Deep13
(39,154 posts)An AR15 is more accurate, has greater range, holds more rounds on-board, and allows the user to carry more rounds due to weight.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)although we in NYC have had a few minor tremors over the years - but I would never have thought of having a weapon in my go bag in case the tectonic plates across the Hudson River in New Jersey shifted. I guess that's just me.
aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)Thank you very much.
Actually, I have a shotgun, too.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)lpbk2713
(42,758 posts)Dick Cheney says they work real well on lawyers ... especially after a couple of beers.
NickB79
(19,247 posts)With that double-barreled shotgun?
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=elmer+fudd&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=39F795DF5AFF5A80B92E1A1A9805FEDF8B206213&selectedIndex=8