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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm loving this: Federal Court Rules Flipping Off Police Is Constitutional (FUCK YEAH!)
In a 14-page opinion, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit ruled that the "ancient gesture of insult is not the basis for a reasonable suspicion of a traffic violation or impending criminal activity."
John Swartz and his wife Judy Mayton-Swartz had sued two police officers who arrested Swartz in May 2006 after he flipped off an officer who was using a radar device at an intersection in St. Johnsville, N.Y. Swartz was later charged with a violation of New York's disorderly conduct statute, but the charges were dismissed on speedy trial grounds.
A federal judge in the Northern District of New York granted summary judgement to the officers in July 2011, but the Court of Appeals on Thursday erased that decision and ordered the lower court to take up the case again.
Richard Insogna, the officer who stopped Swartz and his wife when they arrived at their destination, claimed he pulled the couple over because he believed Swartz was "trying to get my attention for some reason." The appeals court didn't buy that explanation, ruling that the "nearly universal recognition that this gesture is an insult deprives such an interpretation of reasonableness."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/03/flip-off-police_n_2403563.html?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I'm sure they won't do anything.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)But why on earth would anyone flip off a cop? Nothing good can come of it. I understand doing it if you personally know the cop and think he's a jerk, but otherwise, what's the point?
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Letting off that steam, buddy.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)How does one know which cops warrants a bird? (Don't say they all do because that is obviously not true).
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Who now has a confirmed right of self-expression, thanks to the court ruling.
It's freedom, baby, and what makes America great!
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)The cop can always find a reason for probable cause to pull someone over.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)However, I know that any asshole cop can dream up any reason to harass people for absolutely no reason at all. On the street, something like "probable cause" goes out of the window, because most of them believe that no person is entitled to any right that they're bound to respect.
Don't be under the mistaken belief that you have to have done something wrong in order for the police to stop you, question you and fish for a reason to arrest you. A lot of cops certainly don't believe it in this country.
Obviously, one of those lame ass reasons that cops would use is from people flipping them the bird. Well, they can't use that excuse anymore to harass people.
The cops now need to dream up other excuses.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)"Don't be under the mistaken belief that you have to have done something wrong in order for the police to stop you..."
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Trust the police at your own peril.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)I do not distrust police officers just because they are police officers. That would be the same as distrusting some because of they were say, truckdrivers because you think all truckdrivers are dishonest. (Or lawyers for that matter).
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Because it's so freakin' ridiculous.
Truck drivers and lawyers won't stop and detain you in an effort to find something to arrest you for. Truck drivers and lawyers won't intimidate and lie to you in a effort to search your person, your car or your home without any probable cause. Truck drivers and lawyers won't attack you for no reason and then charge you with assaulting them.
Truck drivers and lawyers are not cops.
You do understand that the two are different, right?
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)Do you believe that ALL cops are crooked?
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)Cops take care of their own. They have an "us vs the world" mentality and most cops would rather keep quiet about abuses than go against their fellow officers.
djg21
(1,803 posts)Most cops are absolute professionals. Sure you get some bad ones; there are jerks in every profession.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)But "crooked" itself is such a loaded term, because of what they do, the harassment that they can inflict on ordinary citizens, innocent and otherwise, is codified both in law and in police policy and procedures.
Much of the police in this country is immunized from ever facing any consequences for their unneeded and unwarranted harassment of citizens.
Most of them operate under a vast and complex rubric of impunity against their own actions against anyone. More so, if their actions aren't recorded.
I'm going to quote myself, because I wore an essay about this before and I think that it still stands up today. Please take some time to read the whole thing. It really explains where I'm coming from:
OK, here we go... The order of priorities that cops are protecting goes like this:
1. Themselves.
2. Their fellow cops
3. The laws of the jurisdiction that pays their paychecks
4. Ordinary, law abiding citizens and the victims of crimes
5. The criminal element.
6. The Truth: To protect cops, applying the laws of the jurisdiction to separate and arrest the criminal element from ordinary "law abiding citizens" and their victims and put the motherfuckers in jail.
Now some may think that I'm being unfair by portraying cops as being self-serving. It's not unfair if you think about it. Of course, they have to look out for their own asses first. It's self preservation and no cop will last long without it. It's necessary for the business in which they are in.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/MrScorpio/72
Avoiding any interaction with ANY police officer is always the best way to go.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)numbered points, assuming number 5 means protection once the perp is in custody. Despite the words 'protect and serve' cops are not out there to 'protect' the citizenry. They are there to enforce laws and do the other things in their job descriptions (traffic, medical calls, etc.) For instance, a cop will shoot a perp with a gun but he won't take a bullet to protect a citizen, that's not his job.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)I'm not under any such illusions.
Cops are to be avoided.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)have not made me come to the same conclusion as you. I have two brothers who are cops, a cousin who is a chief deputy, another cousin who was a sheriff and then a police chief. I have known a lot of cops. I would trust most of them. I know of one cop who tried to commit insurance fraud and was fired from he force. I know of another who was basically fired for being lazy and not doing his job. Those kinds of people walk around us in many occupations, these guys happened to be cops. I see no reason to automatically distrust every cop I encounter (not that I run into them much while they are on duty).
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)I'm sure that you've seen cops do good as well as bad.
But the much of the country understands a different reality. To give yourself an opportunity to see outside you of box, take a look a look at these. They're very informative: http://www.policemisconduct.net https://twitter.com/NPMRP
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)well, not personally. I no longer will automatically defend any Minneapolis cop when I read about misconduct in the newspaper. A lot of the problems depends on the size of the department and the 'culture' within the depadtment.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)I'd close with a hearty STFU, but that would be a bit excessive.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)The stop clearly was for "contempt of cop," but the passenger was lucky that the cop was a moron and his story was ludicrous (at least as represented in the Second Circuit's decision). Any halfway competent officer would have found (or created) probable cause in a matter of seconds. All he had to say was that the passenger of the car gave him the finger, he followed and saw an unsafe lane change or erratic driving, or a rolling stop, etc. If you drive a car, you should almost presume probable cause.
Sounds like the passenger here was an absolute asshole and deserved a ticket. The officer was doing his job. He might have acted like a jerk, but I don't know about making a federal case of it.
There may be something else going on here. This judge is usually considered pretty liberal and not especially pro-law enforcement. He generally is pretty fair. I was really surprised to see him grant summary judgment to the officer in the first place.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)He's going to give you the hardest time possible.
As a driver: Sobriety tests, vehicle search, and a roadworthy.
On the streets: you're going to get an ID check, outstandings are going to be run, turn out your pockets, and oh dear sir, is that cocaine on your money?
You crow over this as a GREAT victory, and Goldman Sachs just siphoned another few billion from your collective pockets.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)As I've said many times, one doesn't have to have done anything at all to cause the police to harass them.
But America is a now a little less of a police state than it was the day before the ruling. I'm very happy about that, so sue me.
And besides Goldman Sachs, do you have any other travesties of humanity that we need to cry into our collective beers over?
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)...in police misusing other laws to harrass the flipper.
And no, with the rubberstamp re-authorisation of rendition and extra-territorial executions America is more of a police state than ever before.
Extra-territorial killings; extraordinary rendition; massive racial imballances in incarceration; two illegal wars; decades of constant interferrence in sovereign territories; the systematic destruction of public education; entrenched rape cultures in sports and the armed forces; more millions for sporting "heros" and CEO's and cuts for the needful; unaffordable health care; gouging prices on essential services and cheap distracting frivolities; constantly increasing public debt; deliberate disenfranchisment; unbridled corporate, ecconomic and financial malfeasance on an unprecedented scale; AND A NATION BEING HELD TO RANSOM.
Oh and of course that perenial favourite, guns, guns and more guns.
I reckon those beers might just about be homeopathic by now.
Cirque du So-What
(25,999 posts)so I expect that newly-emboldened bird-flippers will get pulled over for various & sundry reasons, including the tail light that magically begins working again.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)That's more asshole than any cop.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)deservedly so.
"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." That's what my parents taught me WHEN I WAS A CHILD, and I learned that violence was not an appropriate response to words or other expressions of speech that one did not like.
What are you? 4 years old??
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)....are like, 4 years old.
But hey, freedom of expression, herp deeeeerp.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)Renew Deal
(81,883 posts)If that's the worst thing that happens on any given day, things are pretty good.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Apparently, cops take this VERY seriously.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_cop
Skittles
(153,225 posts)I mean, seriously
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)But it's not about me
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Not even when I am out at Occupy events. I tend to smile at them and ask them how they are doing. Until it's time to yell at them for being the strong arm of the 1%, but that's just business.
Amonester
(11,541 posts)I never saw anyone living with such unfortunate malformation, but who knows?
I can't imagine the level of harassment. Poor soul(s).
-..__...
(7,776 posts)(Ok... most likely fake, but if it weren't, this is the kind of smug, smirking, frat boy that deserves an ass tuning)...
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)How are you on videos of people punting puppies and kittens?
librechik
(30,677 posts)and not always kind and professional.