So I opened my paycheck today---well---actually I get direct deposit....

[trumad]

and was pleased to see that we weren't ripping off our Social Security fund with the temporary payroll tax reduction.

Possibly one of the most ill-contrived tax ideas ever.

LEAVE SOCIAL SECURITY ALONE!

[freshwest]

1. Good counter point. And thanks for your other thread. You have my respect, sir.

[JEB]

2. SS is ours

because we pay into it. Don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Thanks for the post.

[liberalmike27]

104. Well

I just heard it was 112 Billion out of the economy, and money people won't be able to spend. The whole idea of sequestration being bad, is slapped in the face by not continuing this stimulus.

Understand, we're 2.7 Trillion dollars ahead. And when we collect it ahead of time, they toss it into the general fund, and spend it. So that is another 112 Billion a year they are spending on other things.

If he'd wanted to compromise, he might have gone with a slow expiration, and a raising of the Social Security cap, or its removal. Most don't even know what that is, as SS is removed from their whole paycheck anyway. But it isn't so for the rich.

The rich got theirs, the poor and middle didn't. And we're the ones who will spend it. Do you really think the people who are keeping their tax cuts up to 400,000 dollars a year are going to spend all of it? I don't think so. We got no demand out of that deal.

I'd still have rather let them expire, then start anew. Democrats, or the President and Biden once again, showed they don't compromise well, the comply. It's different.

[BlueStreak]

3. I think Gerald Ford (R) had it right

If the idea is to put an immediate burst of money into the economy to try to reverse a recession, the best idea is a straightforward tax rebate check.

You authorize one payment, so the public doesn't expect it to continue. It all goes into the economy quickly, rather than being dribbled out of the course of a year.

People see the check and appreciate that the government is trying to do something out of the ordinary to get things moving.

As I recall, the Ford rebates were a flat amount regardless of income. This had the effect of putting most of the money into the hands of the people who needed it the most, and would spend it immediately.

I agree with you 100%. This "tax holiday" was one of the stupidest ideas ever. Even if it was well intentioned, it put the GOP on the track of bleeding our programs to death.

[trumad]

4. Give them an inch and they will take a mile...

[knap]

11. BlueStreak

Do you remember back in '08 when BUSH AUTHORIZED a tax rebate and we all got $300 for each person in the household?

Did you commend Bush for that action, or did you bash him?

Who's idea was it to cut the payroll tax anyway. My guess is you would say Bush, and in hindsight you would say that was a bad idea if it was Bush's idea/fault.

But the truth is, it was the OBAMA administration that instituted that program.

And somehow it is Bush's fault.

Read:

In late 2010, Congress and President Obama passed new tax laws that take effect in 2011 (Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010).

http://freefrombroke.com/more-money-in-your-paycheck-the-payroll-tax-cut-social-security-tax-cut/

[OKNancy]

13. LOL - I think everyone here knows this

enjoy your stay

[hrmjustin]

14. Bush should never be praised for anything.

[OccupyManny]

37. Yes

I still hold out hope that he will be prosecuted. Maybe now that the President has won reelection he can devote some attention to investigating and prosecuting the Bush/Cheney crimes. No justice, no peace.

[hrmjustin]

41. Well said my friend and welcome to DU.

[OccupyManny]

45. Thank you!

Glad to be here.

[hrmjustin]

136. Bush is evil and must never be praised IMO.

[stevenleser]

137. To hidden post/poster, The answer is, we are all going to have to give it back,with tons of interest

Thats what debt means.

[Iggo]

16. Hey!

[BlueStreak]

17. I commend Republicans and criticize Dems when I think it is justified

Most of the time, Republicans push some very bad ideas. And sometimes Dems do. This payroll tax holiday was one of the worst ideas ever.

I am glad it is over, and I would support another tax rebate at this stage of the economic recovery, regardless of which party proposed it.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

22. Who ever said anything about Bush and the Payroll tax cuts?

I think you've wandered into the wrong place...

[WorseBeforeBetter]

23. BASH!

Search DU2.

Bush tax cuts + Obama temporary payroll tax cut = bad ideas.



Think long term.

P.S. Rush Limpballs is not your friend.

[haele]

51. Actually, there were quite a few who bashed Bush for that.

Not everyone's a greedy tweenager who says "hooray, let's party" when mom or dad gets exasperated and gives us a twenty - that would be missed later on that week before payday came around again - to just go to the mall and leave them alone a couple hours.

That $300 per person was supposed to pay for debts we had already incurred as a nation and would have been better used paying down the wars Shrub 43 and his posse of thieves profited off while they ran the deficit up or investing in infrastructure and real renewable energy independence.

We paid attention. We knew Shrub 43 had expenses draining the treasury that was off the books. By 2006 most DU'ers knew we were headed for a recession, that the unsustainable real estate and junk bond bubbles would burst (like they did in the late '80's...) and we would be stuck with a huge bill.

But noooo... lots of short-sighted Faux viewers thought it was their due, that this minuscule amount they were getting was like raking in the profit off a business.
The same folks who didn't realize that a tax break given as a "tax holiday" meant that it was a special event or benefit for a specific reason, rather than something that could be considered a regular day to day event they could depend on.

Haele

[BlueStreak]

59. Yes, the circumstances were completely different from earlier rebates

I'd say the Bush plan was reckless. It came at a time when the economy was relatively strong and unemployment was relatively low. That is the time when it is wise to try to pay down the deficit.. In retrospect, we can see that this really unnecessary stimulus came only a few months before the explosion of the Bush bubble. I have not studied this enough to have a valid opinion as to how much this rebate affected the 2008 collapse, but it stands to reason that it did inflate the bubble a little more right before the explosion.

[reACTIONary]

54. OOOH! How so VERY informative!!! (LOL, NT)

[djean111]

106. No one blamed Bush. There's enough other bad shit he is responsible for.

[geckosfeet]

107. $300 payoff to look the other way as his administration robbed us.

And the rabble will fight for our crumbs...

[WhoIsNumberNone]

138. Actually, I did bash him.

Bush was so ham handed it was easy to see through his bullshit. That $300 bone he threw to the working classes was just to keep people from screaming about the 4% cut he gave to millionaires.

[RB TexLa]

12. people don't have to cash tax rebate checks and even if you do you can send it right back to the IRS

that's what I did with the tax refund advances. I wasn't going to do shit for the economy.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

44. Did you scribble a note on it?

"I don't stimulate the economy with you"

[RB TexLa]

53. No. I did not.

[gollygee]

20. I agree that a tax rebate check would have been better

I imagine calling it a "tax holiday" was intended to show that it was going to be very temporary, but people don't seem to get that.

[airplaneman]

43. I was much happier with Obama's make work pay credit.

It was $800 for couples. The 2% rebate on SS was more for people making the cutoff SS amount and helped lower incomes much less. It disappointed me that this was for only one year-Airplane

[ROBROX]

110. I GOT THE FORD REBATE

The money was one shot to pay bills. I know the rich did not spend the money but SAVED the money from their big rebate check.

Money given out through out the year does not pay a big bill, but it sure helps pay the way. The rich do not have one big check to SAVE when the money is given all year. The rich do save all year because they are RICH. I think the rich could be given a 75% tax and NOT be able to save, but they would still be rich.

[RockaFowler]

5. I'm glad it's back, too

We need all the money we can keep in SS.

And who complains about $7?? $7 so your mother can continue to receive her SS check. $7 is a very small amount when you see that we shouldn't have gotten it from the begining!

[former9thward]

35. I guess the White House thinks differently than you do.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/40dollars

[truedelphi]

78. Yet another reason why so many people consider Obama to be a moderate

Republican at best, and a traitor to the elderly at the worst.

Over the last few months, we have already heard the fact that Social Security is taking in a lot less money (Multiply those $ 40 by 100 million households, and the Fund is losing a lot of money.) Then the "experts" come in and start yapping about how it can't go on like this - X amount of Baby Boomers retiring every damn minute, yet the Social Security payments are declining. What is being "hinted at" of course, is the fact that maybe Social Security needs tweaking, like the CPI chained cuts to the program, or even upping the retirement age.

Meanwhile, some 69.55 billions of dollars were just added too the nation's deficit so that AIG, Goldman Sachs, Disney and NASCAR can continue feeding at the Corporate welfare trough.

[former9thward]

92. Yes, the corporate welfare in these 'deals' is sickening.

NASCAR is the most popular sport in the country in terms of attendance yet they have to have a tax break.

[tavalon]

82. No wonder I didn't see the difference

$7? Really? That's sad. Pathetic that it was ever conceived and more pathetic that a bunch of people have their panties in a wad over $7.

[glowing]

6. I had $2.40 less. I think I can handle this for a future of having social security.

As is obvious, the little amount of $2.40 means I'm making shit to begin with anyway.

[onethatcares]

8. yep, I agree

we're both making shit to begin with anyway but I know I won't mind that $2.40 either.

[tridim]

7. My company's newsletter blamed Obama.

[DrewFlorida]

9. Agreed!

[anarch]

10. I'm not gonna lie, the reduced take home pay this next check is gonna hurt

But I'm with you in theory.

My bigger issue with it all is the way my pay has totally failed to keep up with the cost of living, and a couple things that have come together all at the same time to give me a lower actual amount of take-home pay starting this month, in terms of dollars.

Also I get a rent increase starting in February, so I'll have to rearrange the budget a bit...barring anything unexpected, I'll still have enough to eat, if I switch to mostly rice and beans...I'm sure my pathetic existence on this planet will continue.

From a perception and persuasion perspective, I'll also go ahead and say it probably doesn't help win the hearts and minds of working people who maybe don't pay close attention to politics to hear a bunch of sanctimonious crap about how they should have been ready for this. e.g.:

Surprised Person Seeing the Reduced Take-Home Pay: "Damn! This reduction in take-home pay is going to make a real difference in my lifestyle!"

Smug-sounding, Albeit Essentially Reasonable Responder: "Well suck it up, guy! That tax holiday was never supposed to last forever, you should have been prepared."

Does not really go over well.

[BlueStreak]

24. That is the big issue, not taxation.

The big issue, as you said, is that for many working Americans, our income has not even kept up with inflation, if we were fortunate enough to keep a job.

Please understand that the big corporations that are running things absolutely LOVE an 8% unemployment rate. That is enough employment to keep the economy going, but it is enough unemployment to force people to work for shitty pay and constantly shrinking benefits.

The central goal for EVERYTHING we do at this point should be to achieve a 5% unemployment level or lower. At that level, wages will naturally rise, the government will take in a lot more tax revenues and put out a lot less in food stamps.

The biggest corporations have never been more profitable, so an increase in wages will simply not threaten them in any substantial way. There is a risk of greater inflation as wages rise, but if we use those additional tax revenues to reduce the deficit, that will hold inflation in check.

It is absolutely ridiculous that our central focus today is on austerity. The focus should be on 5% unemployment, period. That would fix most of what is wrong in our economy today.

[a2liberal]

56. +1 (n/t)

[BlueIndyBlue]

52. I missed the memo on the change

I don't mind paying into the system for our seniors but I definitely missed the announcement that this was expiring. Even though I have a college degree, I work for local government and believe me we don't make much money. Folks around here in Indiana think that government work is meaningless and we should (except for the police and fire-folks) be a skeleton staff. I haven't had a merit or cost-of-living raise in 6 years. The expiration of the tax holiday is going to hit the budget hard.

Many of my friends didn't realize it either. Our payroll department didn't do a good job of explaining the coming changes. I agree that it doesn't go over well to many that are living paycheck to paycheck. It is just so unfair that those that benefit the most from our labors pay the least. I have been watching Oliver Stone's, Untold History of the United States programming that is now airing on Showtime. I had never been introduced to Henry Wallace before but after hearing about him and his ideas back in the 40's if he had succeeded Roosevelt, this country might be much better off today with regards to how we treat our citizens and those of other countries. Why does our country so hate progressive ideas?

[tavalon]

83. Thanks for taking it back to the real issue

[AZ Progressive]

15. What a fool, the SS payroll tax cut was paid for by the general fund

I hope your happy to know that the estate tax cut was renewed in the same fiscal cliff bill. Not to mention that the capital gains tax rate would have been as fair as the income tax rate, at a maximum 39% of income if the fiscal cliff bill didn't lower it to 20%.

[airplaneman]

48. The problem is that the general fund is part of the deficit spending.

As such cutting SS does affect the deficit when it does not come from taxation in the payroll tax. Just like the debt about 4 trillion of the 16 is borrowed from the government and not owed by the people. The public debt is 12 trillion and not 16 trillion but the right wing obviously wants to never pay back the 4 trillion borrowed and owed by the government with interest mind you. I don't like to add fire the the mindset - why not instead just give people a 2% rebate in taxes on their adjusted gross income? It would be no different than the SS thing but the arguments against it would be less valid.
-Airplane

[truedelphi]

77. Exactly. n/t

[shireen]

103. can't you make your point without insulting the OP?

You contributed valuable information i did not know about. But that insult was utterly unnecessary. I hope you consider deleting it.

[JoePhilly]

18. Meh ... it provided some stimulus when the GOP was trying to block

any NEAR TERM stimulus at the time.

With Obama re-elected, and the UE under 8%, letting it expire now is just fine.

[vt_native]

19. Glad to receive $25 less dollars every week

Remove the income cap for SS taxation/funding.

Tax all income for SS.

[Freddie]

31. ^^this^^

Or keep the SS cap ($113800 for 2013 IIRC) but when you hit the cap, your Medicare tax increases from 1.45% to 7.65%. This would make payroll taxes non-regressive and solve the Medicare problem.

[Ms. Toad]

33. Not a bad idea. n/t

[airplaneman]

49. I like it.

It would be so easy to get the revenue we need with fair a broad based taxes.
One of my favorites is a 1% tax on all derivative, stock, and fund trades which should generate 3.2 trillion a year.
-Airplane

[roamer65]

114. GOD DAMN RIGHT!!!!!!!

[AZ Progressive]

21. BTW, it was just a cut from 12.4% to 10.4%

Your employer has kept paying the 6.2% on your income. So even if the funding of the social security fund were decreased (the cut was paid for by the general fund), it would've not been that big of a cut (12.4 to 10.4%)

[LoisB]

25. You are right, that 2% temporary reduction should NEVER have been done.

[ReRe]

26. Absolutely!

They can keep their greedy grimey fingers off the Social Security!

[doc03]

27. I too will receive my SS next Wednesday and will get $26 more

for my COLA. Thank all of you for paying that extra 2% into the payroll tax so the SS is once again fully funded.

[Freddie]

28. Good news for those of us in PA

Our unemployment tax went down, from .08% to .07%. Wheeee!

[NashvilleLefty]

29. I do have a question about that,

our payroll ending was the last Sunday of December, although we didn't actually receive the paychecks until January. So, technically, shouldn't the tax expiration have waited until the next payroll ending period?

And you don't know how many people I've had to explain the "holiday" to - they see it as a tax increase. They missed the extra money they were getting before.

[Freddie]

30. The IRS only cares about the negotiable date of the check

Not when it was earned.

[RomneyLies]

32. I know to expect between $93 and $94 less in my paycheck on the 15th

and then again on the 31st.

That'll be just for the FICA change.

The insurance change will be worse, but that's the fucked up management in my company fucking all of us over.

The FICA change I'll be proud to pay. The insurance change I have no choice but to pay.

[RomneyLies]

141. HEY ASSHOLE DRUDGE!!!!

Not only was the quote above misquoted by your buddies in the Moonie Times, IT WASN'T EVEN IN THE FUCKING THREAD THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT YOU HUMAN PIECE A DRECK!!!!!

[obxhead]

34. Same here. nt

[former9thward]

36. A lot of people will be hurt.

Maybe not you but not everyone is rich. http://www.whitehouse.gov/40dollars

[humbled_opinion]

60. Exactly, it seems that this forum

is littered with people that are rich or well off, shame really maybe they should walk a day in my shoes before they spout off about stopping money that was actually helping people.

[MzShellG]

68. Exactly! This forum used to be more compassionate......

The stance that some are happy that poor & middle class folks paychecks are decreasing sounds more like a GOP talking point. I'm stunned that more DU'ers aren't concerned for the have nots under these circumstances. People are struggling as it is & the consensus on here is to cheer a decrease in take home pay?!? Feels like bizarro world.

[Gkdemonut]

119. The reaction can be linked to the fact these folks are in Denial of being misled. Silly Fools

[just1voice]

89. +1000

How about we/the U.S. stops paying for war crimes and torture camps instead.

[tavalon]

84. I'm not rich

I'm part of the hallowed middle class. And I'm a hard left liberal. I can't justify a "tax holiday" that opens the door for destabilization of SS, not only because it may impact me later but because it will impact all recipients. The good of the many outweighs the good of the few. OTOH, I could support a truly progressive tax structure which likely would hit me harder than this but again, as one of the hallowed middle class, I feel a strong responsibility to assure that the social safety net is preserved and even enhanced.

[humbled_opinion]

94. Don't you see what's going on here..

That is a defeatist mentality.... You should be calling for truly progressive fixes to the revenue streams now... Stop all this I'm in the middle and I will accept some cost increases....

How you going to pay for it? and when you figure that out imagine how the rest of us that are lower middle and poor are trying to figure it out...

Stand up for

VAT
Bank and Wall Street Transaction taxes
Wealth luxury tax
firearms ownership annual taxes
Raising the CAP on SS...

[aandegoons]

38. I wish I could say the same.

But my company has not implemented the new rate yet.

Maybe next week I will start putting in my share.

[bluestate10]

39. The tax holiday was designed to stimulate the economy when the economy was weak.

Republicans fought the decrease then because they didn't want to see the economy improve because an improvement would help the President get re-elected.

[humbled_opinion]

61. When the economy was weak...

why all the past tense... unemployment still near 8 percent million dropped out of workforce, EBT benefits continue to rise...

Did I miss something?

[airplaneman]

40. I was never happy with this from the beginning.

My immediate response was to up my 401K contribution by 2%.
I see politics as tick up or tick down on any issue.
To strengthen SS you increase the tax for it.
To weaken it you reduce the tax for it.
It also plays into the anti-tax and destroy SS mindset of the right wing.
I am very happy its over too.
-Airplane

[humbled_opinion]

62. Millions of people aren't as lucky

they don't have a 401K or any retirement funds they live like me check to check barely making ends meet so when the president authorized a small stimulus I was very happy and thankful to him...

If you want to talk about extending SS and Medicare start talking about true progressive reforms enough of this B.S. from you rich fucks..

VAT
Transaction Tax banking and wall street
SS CAP increase to infinity
real tax rate increases on the real rich not that idiotic deal that hurt me more than somebody making 500k per year
Yearly firearms ownership tax and make it hurt

[airplaneman]

73. Actually I really do care and you are very correct - I did not mean to come across as callous.

I would add to your list:
Minimum living wage of at least $15.00 per hour (Australia does it).
Government student loans at 0% interest (Australia again).
1% stock, derivative and funds trade tax.
Double out pay of SS (read Steven Hill on this)
Tax the hell out of corporation that send jobs overseas.
Guaranteed government jobs for everyone - infrastructure, health care, and civil service (Netherlands does this).
Make it impossible to accumulate large sums of wealth by taxing it away.
Progressive tax hitting the wealthiest hard and no tax for anybody making less than 2x the poverty rate.
Guaranteed health care for all that does not rape wealth (most of the rest of the world).
A system that guarantees a narrow distribution of wealth.
Nationalize pharmaceutical companies and make drugs available at low cost.
Anti trust break up of all large corporations especially the ones that don't share the wealth.
Require corporations to have employee resolution systems and participation on the board of directors (Germany comes to mind).
Just a few and I am not the most articulate person.
-Airplane

[humbled_opinion]

74. Yes, Yes and Yes again but why

aren't our reps talking about this? We do control a majority in the Senate we can push ideas from the White House...

If we can't do this with Obama we will never get it done..

[Sunlei]

76. you have very good points.

The only thing I disagree with is a yearly firearm ownership tax. I do think there should be a high ownership type tax on guns but not on the first couple of guns. They should tax the hell out of ammo, a very high tax.

I don't think people who have a single gun for home protection or maybe a couple for basic hunting should be burdened with over regulating and a yearly ownership tax.

However, people with multi weapon collections/gun hoarders and re-sellers- people who shoot thousands of rounds ahould pay some kind of tax to cover the costs of regulations. A tax to cover the impact/damages guns and ammo have on our society. The damages to our environment (lead/trash cleanup)/wildlife(game wardens, poaching, shooting of protected species) shooting of signs, stuff like that, need to be paid for by a tax.

[humbled_opinion]

95. But, But, but...

They won't even discuss these ideas.... No we are too busy talking about chained CPI and agreeing with republicans that spending in D.C. is the problem.... I voted for people that would represent me and I am getting no representation at all......

I think my ideas are moderate they help the truly poor and lower middle..

[roamer65]

115. A lot of people ae right on edge budget-wise and this will push them over that edge.

The smart choice would have been to remove the cap on employee FICA withholding and leave the rates the same or drop them to 4% even.

I've had it with both major parties, screw 'em.

[SammyWinstonJack]

42. rec!

[democrattotheend]

46. Gotta say I disagree

I wish they had continued the payroll tax holiday. My boyfriend has had a lot of expenses and is feeling squeezed right now, and having his paycheck shrink really didn't help.

I would have preferred lower payroll taxes even over the middle class income tax cuts, since payroll taxes hit the first dollar of income no matter how little someone makes. My understanding is that the payroll tax holiday was structured in such a way that the SS fund was compensated...am I wrong about that?

[humbled_opinion]

63. ++++ Truly a shame

that people here can't actually see the pain that this *GREAT DEAL* has caused..

[madokie]

47. F**king A

Spot on

[Curmudgeoness]

50. I had so many calls today asking why their checks were less

than they had been. The first thing I thought was "do you live in a vacuum? Have you not paid any attention to the news?". But I didn't voice that.

Funny, not one person called to tell me that they had MORE in their check when the reduction took effect.

[democrattotheend]

140. Are you an HR professional?

If so, could I ask you a few questions for a paper I am doing on Medicare?

[Curmudgeoness]

142. No, I'm not in HR. I do accounting/payroll.

They call and ask me about their checks because I am the one who processes all the payroll....as well as a million other things. But HR is more involved in benefits and insurance and hiring and firing, if I interpret it the same as you do.

But if I can help you, PM me.

[a2liberal]

55. K&R

It worries me that so many here do not see how this was a huge backdoor threat to the essential program that is Social Security and are only concerned about paychecks. If you truly believe that that amount of tax makes or breaks you, then push for a cut in the tax bracket where it belongs, not in a way that threatens Social Security.

[humbled_opinion]

57. B.S.

It was a real stimulus in a down economy. If you want to talk about something positive talk about raising the SS cap and the program is solvent forever additionally you could make that 2 percent tax cut permanent and still have a fully solvent program.

P.S. some of us actually needed that money to stay afloat, so now what do I cut, kids college savings? Food?

Seems real nice for you folks that don't really need the money to speak for the rest of us...

[Sunlei]

58. I thought it was a creative way (2 years ago) to quick,give Americans a bit of extra spending money.

The extra (about 50.00 a month for me) did make a difference to my local economy. I spent that money. I think anyone living paycheck to paycheck also spent theirs.

SS is a benefit not an entitlement. It is a solvent fund. I resent the way republicans always try to make that fund look like an entitlement and try to privatize it for profit. Like they did with prisons and will do soon with education vouchers.

I also think the cap to pay into ss should be raised above the 1950s cap of 113k a year. It should be about 400k a year same as the new 'middle class tax break amount'.

People of means, the very wealthy like Romney should not get a guaranteed SS check unless they lose their wealth.

At the time I think the stimulus package was desperately needed it provided a lot of jobs in my community. We got a new road from that Federal money. The extra bit of spending money from a bit less SS helped too.

[humbled_opinion]

64. +1

[tex-wyo-dem]

69. I agree with you...

Keeping the lower tax rate for those making under a certain amount and raising the cap (or totally eliminating it) would have been a better way to go (the cap was raised, but not nearly enough IMO).

That little bit of extra money means a lot to many folks living paycheck-to-paycheck.

In the same breathe I will say that I'm happy to see more revenue being put back into ss and medicare. These programs are extremely important and need to be strengthened.

[tavalon]

85. Eliminate The Social Secutiry Cap

Short, succinct and totally correct.

[SheilaT]

65. I honestly could not see any difference in my paycheck

when the holiday started, and I doubt I'll notice any difference now. Mainly because I'm paid hourly, and my exact hours of work vary slightly from paycheck to paycheck, so it's never exactly the same.

Let's see, as an estimate I'll be getting an additional eight dollars per pay check, on average. And quite frankly, even with as little as I make, that's not enough to make much difference.

[humbled_opinion]

72. The average was 800 per year for couple

and yes that is $15 per week ... $60 per month that can pay the water bill or most of the light bill or help with gas ..... It really was a lot of money to some of us. Now it's gone so I got punished and the rich got richer..

[NCTraveler]

66. I am sure those making minimum wage don't feel the same way.

They probable aren't driving around in a Lexus either. I will pass on your sentiments with respect to their lowered take home pay. The lack of empathy toward those living in poverty is stunning.

[humbled_opinion]

70. Must be hidden rightwingnuts on here ....

In fact I may start to alert those that promote idiotic policy that hurt the poor.

[trumad]

79. What---me saying leave SS alone shows lack of empathy?

Get real.

[NCTraveler]

80. Yes. Acting like this increase is no big deal because you will not miss the money...

while those making minimum wage will be hurt does show a lack of empathy. This is a true "I got mine" post.

[trumad]

88. so tell me...

You ok with robbing SS?

Sure looks like you are?

[just1voice]

91. Please explain in detail how they said that...go ahead

Let's hear the big picture of American economics including wars for profit instead of your apparachik-like harassment of someone whom, like millions of others, can't afford more taxes.

Oh nevermind.

[trumad]

93. nice strawman

You explain to me why you think its ok to rob SS.

Go read post 90 and you might finally get it instead of blabbing right talking points.

[bornskeptic]

123. The payroll tax holiday did not take one dime from Social Security.

I thought this was common knowledge on DU, although many here cling to the bizarre notion that people might someday decie they don't want Social Security any longer becuse a tiny part of it was paid for with their income taxes rather than their payroll taxes.

[RandiFan1290]

117. Trying to get more air time with Rush?

[NCTraveler]

67. And to add, I do not think they should leave SS alone as you do.

I think the cap should be raised. I understand that you might feel a little pinch under those circumstances, but it will help those of us who need it.

[tavalon]

86. I wholly concur on that one

I'm sorry that some people are going to feel the pinch and they should have done it in a way that was progressive, as our tax structure should be but isn't.

[lonestarnot]

71. K & R!

[grahamhgreen]

75. Big K&R. I want to PAY MORE, and get more out. 401k's suck, IMHO.

I would gladly dump my 401K into more SS.

[tavalon]

81. I didn't really see much of a change

But I'm glad to give that up. It isn't right, stealing from Peter to pay Paul.

[Harmony Blue]

87. I am not rich or well off

I am a wage worker and frankly I too am glad this stupid tax holiday is over. Worst possible way to do a stimulus. Now some dolts will complain that their "taxes went up".

[jjewell]

90. Those complaining about the expiration...

...of the payroll tax holiday because they live paycheck to paycheck, are going to regret their stance when the paycheck they're living on is their Social Security check. The payroll tax funds Social Security. The payroll tax holiday was funded by the general fund, which added to the debt/deficit, and gave the Rethuglicans an actually valid talking point. Now that the payroll tax holiday is over, Social Security contributes NOTHING to the debt/deficit, and their talking point is dead. The payroll tax holiday was a bad idea, and the complaints about it's expiration prove it...

[humbled_opinion]

97. B.S. this is more D.C. SPEAK...

Raise the CAP and give a 2 percent permanent break to those making 100K and below.... Oh my that is a real tax break just the opposite of tax breaks for the rich but some here can't see it

[roamer65]

118. They're stupid.

Most people are ignorant and don't even know the cap exists. When they hear of it, they usually are disgusted by it. It needs to be removed completely on the employee-side of FICA withholding. I am sure we could drop the rate to least 4% or maybe lower if we removed that cap. That would put more money into the hands to the people who need it most. Hard working and struggling familes and younger wage earners.

[plethoro]

113. Good post. It was a bad idea when it was done and it would be an

even worse idea to extend the reduction. I think they will eventually raised the cap when the Democrats are in full power, which will not happen is the reduction is done again or Social Security is cut by any means! The Republicans will be going after entitlements again in February/March. I wonder how many non-Republicans will help them.

[lunatica]

96. When I explained that to my co-workers they were fine with it

They all agreed it was good that the money was going back into SS.

[humbled_opinion]

99. Can I come work with you?

Somehow thinking that $800 per year means nothing to your co-workers just tells me they are already making a lot of money...

Did you also explain to them that they could have added the $800 per year to their own IRA or 401K and how much of a difference that would have made to their long term retirement plans?

Did you explain to them that those making barely enough to survive would be hurt by this tax increase? Did you explain that this tax break unlike the tax cut for the rich actually helped people?

Did you have a long talk about how we should champion elimination of the SS cap so that SS would be funded forever and not effect one single person today?

Did you tell them that eliminating the cap would mean we could actually lower the retirement age or eliminate the FICA contribution for those earning up to 40K per year?

Interesting somehow I think you forgot to mention all these things...

[lunatica]

100. Sigh...

Do you feel better now?

[humbled_opinion]

108. No and neither do

all of those of us that really needed that tax break... but hey don't let that vision stop you from spouting anymore nonsense about how great a deal this cliff fiasco was and how Obama ate their lunch... as far as metaphors go, interestingly enough the only lunch he ate was the one I was buying for my kids with the tax break that I used to kid....

[lunatica]

122. I am so glad I don't know you

I've been having financial trouble for years. Just since 2010 I was laid off, then rehired, my mother died of pancreatic cancer, then I had to declare bankruptcy and got it, then I went through the foreclosure process until my mortgage company finally gave me a loan modification. And every month I have no money at all for the last two weeks because I don't get paid enough. When my mother was alive we did OK, but that ended when she died.

Yet I manage to not be angry at every single person who dares to be a little optimistic.

You anger is really ugly.

[humbled_opinion]

125. Your complete lack of compassion for those that

were using that tax break to make ends meet and now must suffer is frankly unamerican.

[lunatica]

133. I guess you can't read very well

I was using that tax holiday to try to make ends meet and was even at that unsuccessful. But I am counting on some sort of half decent social security when I'm forced to retire. I'm 64 years old now and have no illusions about retiring ever.

You can call it whatever you want because frankly I don't give a shit about your opinion.

[humbled_opinion]

134. I simply don't believe that anyone that

using that money to make ends meet would be celebrating the end of it and not trying to come up with another solution... IOW you can say anything on this forum, doesn't make it true you probably don't need the money that's why you knee jerk to pull it away from those that do...

[TBF]

98. K&R

You're on a roll this week Trumad - some very good OPs

I agree 100% - if anything we should retire folks at 60 do younger folks can get some jobs, and we should make Medicare our basic universal health care and solve a few problems there too.

[ileus]

101. I don't pay into SS at my FT job.

I pay into SS on my side work but the hospital I work for doesn't do SS.

I don't see any issue with paying higher SS taxes, but I must ask will the funds go to SS or another aircraft carrier?

[shireen]

102. agree ....

i never liked that so-called holiday. It may mean less money in my paycheck but i'd rather see that amount go towards SS.

[leroy65]

105. Tax

This is for social security so leave it alone. When Obama cut this tax it did not hurt me. The government found other ways to take my money.

[humbled_opinion]

109. Why?

Wouldn't you rather allow a real tax cut like that to help those of us who can use the money, and serve as stimulus in a down economy and in the mean time instead of hurting us by removing it you could champion a SS cap increase that would mean not only could we make the 2 percent tax cut permanent helping middle and low income families cope, but we could make the entire FICA more progressive because the high income earners would now be paying a fair share?

Explain please

[Kingwithnothrone]

111. The reality is this

What i can grasp with the pea-brain i have left after listening to the empty rhetoric of politicians for years is that most of them can't be trusted with the ability to have access to the people's money.

Social Security was designed to be a stand-alone program funded by payroll taxes with no ties to the general fund or to "borrowed" from for whatever purpose they see fit.Two key features of the austerity hucksters plans are an addiction to "borrowing" money from the people to use for whatever the hell the want,and a total denial that "borrowing" the peoples' money to satisfy the Capitalist Empire is unacceptable.

Some among them are bent on making their false prophesies that Social Security is bankrupt into reality.The "payroll tax holiday"added to that fantasy and it was a horrible idea to begin with.Government conversion of payroll taxes into Treasury Notes and chopping off 33% of the employee contribution was a pathetic idea from the beginning.Making that permanent,and then saying SS is broke is a real recipe for benefit cuts wouldn't you say?

It wasn't a "2%" cut.It was a two point cut in employee share which equals a 33% cut in contributions.It's a 2 point, not a 2% cut and 2 points of 6.2% to 4% represented a 33% reduction of funds.There was talk of slashing it from 6.2% to 3% which would have been even worse.

I don't disagree with you on raising the cap or other solutions and yes it sucks that people's take home pay is reduced but as things stand right now, ending it was the best outcome.They cannot be trusted to pay back what they owe SS through the general fund and not slash benefits, which is still on the table from where i stand.Ending the "holiday" gives them less talking points to say SS is broke.

[humbled_opinion]

127. I get all that

I am just not in the best place to deal with any cost of living increases right now and losing this is going to hurt me some, god forbid inflation kicks in but I still think the sane voices on here and the in the administration should start talking about really taxing the rich and getting some of it back down here where it belongs.

[shireen]

126. i can't explain it because i'm clearly an idiot

without a full grasp of the facts. So you win this one. Happy?

[Rex]

112. Well you know that THIS OP will not be used as propaganda for

the RWing Lie Machine...it has truth in it and they detest truth!

[roamer65]

116. I am utterly amazed by those who support putting the rate back to 6.2 pct...

without first getting the employee FICA withholding cap removed. Do you people really want to pay that much more tax while those above $113,000 get a free ride????

This country is truly screwed up.

[Harmony Blue]

120. I am utterly amazed

that you don't realize the implications of what you are suggesting. If you do that then Social Security truly becomes a welfare program the right screeches so much about falsely. Social security works just fine as it is thanks.

The payroll tax holiday could have ended up a trojan horse to hurt the program long term and also tie the program with the general deficit.

If the payroll tax holiday continued it would have perfectly played into the narrative that it is an "entitlement" and contributes to the general deficit that many on the right preach.

Thankfully that talking point is no more.

[roamer65]

121. You really think that taking care of the elderly is just a lower and middle class duty?

Really...do you REALLY think that? That is what you are saying in your reply.

It is the duty of EVERYONE to do so, regardless of income...it is something called "social responsibility".

Let go of your fear of what the flying monkey right thinks or says.

[humbled_opinion]

129. Why do you even care what the right screeches about...

they screech about all the wrong things and they have been proven and destroyed by Obama... So when you find a tax cut that actually helps the lower end you fight against it but can't seem to stop the corporate welfare and the big tax breaks for GE, OIL, and the RICH...

I just don't even get it anymore.. especially on a Democratic forum...

[humbled_opinion]

128. No that is my argument too.. I expected

on DU that the majority would side with that seeing how this particular tax cut helped the poorest of us.... but there seem to be many here that want to go on and on about how such a bad idea, but I really don't remember anyone saying it was a bad idea or reading any bad idea OP's when the President first recommended and signed it....

[customerserviceguy]

124. Agreed

Social Security faces massive threats from the baby boomer retirements and the continuing Great Recession, it doesn't need a tax holiday that is made permanent, that just reinforces the idea among younger workers that the system is not savable.

[humbled_opinion]

130. LOL

That sounds might rightwing of you, thanks for looking out for the little guy here, maybe you will recommend an equal tax cut for those making under 40k to offset the pain or do you have no compassion for the pain this is causing people?

Second where were you when Obama first brought this up and signed it into law? point me to your post saying what an aweful Idea it was then?

[Kingwithnothrone]

131. You would jeopardise those who depend solely on Social Security to make a point?

I understand what you are saying,but in a way you are oblivious to what continuation of the payroll tax holiday could mean for millions of poor Americans who depend solely on Social Security as there only monthly source of income.Many of those people are disabled,old and in their last years of life.They have exactly zero chance of returning to the work force.What is your answer to that?Overpopulation is self-correcting?Because that's how you are coming across in this thread.

What is your agenda to change what you feel is wrong here?Holding up a sign that says "I am generally displeased with the current situation"?The wails of the Democratic party and even any movement like OWS remain the same.It is greedy Capitalism...It is unregulated Capitalism...It is corporate Capitalism...Sorry no it isn't.The society is ill, the disease is Capitalism period, and it is destroying everything around you and me.

You would destroy what is left of the new deal for a few extra pesos in your check and with probably a worse outcome?Hey...you wanna start from scratch?I am all for it.Name the time and place and i will drag my 40 something ass right to the front line of those barricades with you.A few massive general strikes to change conditions might get your point across.Barring that,all of this shit ends with a whimper and we end up with the crumbs again either way.It is sad.But for many of the aging,the disabled,and the retired poor,crumbs is all they have.

[customerserviceguy]

143. Is it really progressive

to stick your head in the sand, and just assume that Social Security will go on as ever before, even with the baby boomers that sustained it this far finally coming for their own share? Every year since the Great Recession started, the Social Security Trustees have pulled back three years their estimated date as to when the system will not be able to pay full benefits.

I liked the Making Work Pay Credit of the first part of the President's term. It didn't give two thousand dollars a year to people making at or over the cap, and it was the same for the minimum wage worker as it was for the middle class worker. I'll have to look through DU2, but I know I spoke out against the payroll tax holiday idea then, I've always thought it undermined support for the system.

[SoCalDem]

132. I'm with you.. we "lost" about $100 a month

but it was money that should have been going to SS all along..

Now if those in DC can get their head out of their asses long enough to push for REAL SS/Medicare reform and eliminate the upper limit cap on it...and extend it to ALL INCOME...not just labor-payments from the hourly workers