Obama Gives Republicans A Tough Ultimatum On Taxes

[arely staircase]

Here’s how that threat would play out. Taxes will automatically go up on all income earners next week if a deal isn’t struck. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) will put forth legislation to bring taxes back down for middle incomes. That’ll leave Senate Republicans with a choice: either let it move forward and pass, or go on record filibustering a middle class tax cut as the nation watches. Both bad choices.

....

“I believe such a proposal could pass both houses with bipartisan majorities, as long as those leaders actually allow it to come to a vote,” Obama said at the news conference. “If members of the House or the Senate want to vote no, they can.”

In other words, Obama isn’t hesitating to exercise what Democrats correctly recognized as their upper hand on the issue, not only because they have the ability to block any outcome they dislike but because polls say the public is likely to blame Republicans if the nation plunges over the cliff.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/12/obama-ultimatum-taxes.php

booya

[Skraxx]

1. He's CAVIN....oh wait....

Nt

[arely staircase]

2. sellout, sellout omg!

let's set our hair on fire and start a third party!

[freshwest]

7. You forgot the 'he always wanted to gut Social Security' one...

It's alleged he asked Santa for it as a child...

[arely staircase]

12. that's why his parents faked his birth certificate

the kenyan anti-social security sharia plan

[freshwest]

19. LOL!!! Oh, and I have video... Pardon if you've seen it before...

See, there it is!

[arely staircase]

36. sadly i know people who would think that was

an accurate representation of what happened.

[freshwest]

43. Just about all of the GOP and the CT crowd that claims they aren't GOP...

[kimbutgar]

47. This is so hilarious thanks for sharing

In Hawaii they laugh over this birther thing and think birthers are nuts.

[freshwest]

57. Unfortunately, some of those nuts run some states on the mainland...

It is hilarious if you're not nuts. The rightwingnuts still believe it in general. Details don't matter to them. 'He's a furriner, uh, muslin, er, commie!'
Glad you enjoyed it. I've got a few of them.

[Skittles]

20. naw it has advanced to, "he DESPERATELY wants to cut ss"

(saw that yesterday); SCHEDULING FRESHWEST FOR ASS KICKING FOR FAILURE TO KEEP UP

[hfojvt]

17. that's what I say - wait

You probably should not gloat about how great Obama and Reid are until they have actually passed something.

Because so far they are not even offering anything very good (see my post below).

We are expected to cheer as a victory if Republicans unconditionally surrender and agree to keep 78% of the Bush tax cuts.

That's not my idea of even a draw, much less a victory.

[Skraxx]

22. But It's Ok To Pre-emptively call him a caver?

Is that how it works?

You have a problem keeping tax cuts for people making under $250k? Praytell.

[hfojvt]

29. considering that 2010 was a long time ago, it is not pre-emptive

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021880321

your prayer has been answered.

I have told.

[Skraxx]

32. If You Only Knew What Was In My Prayers

You'd bleach your brain.

I'm not sure what that link shows except that you've been whining about how Obama is sellout since Nov.

I have an idea, run for office and get your brilliant tax plan through Congress!

[CitizenPatriot]

55. He did that in order to get unemployment benefits continued

which Republicans were blocking and which both the people and the economy needed.

what better? He vetoes it all and we get no UE? Yeah, that would have been so great for our liberal values: FU, unemployed- we have principles! /s

It is not 2010 anymore. Circumstances have changed. They have nothing to hold over Dems heads this time. Boehner played his hand and lost.

[hfojvt]

61. those are excuses for the surrender

excuses which I do not buy.

I am sure he will have good excuses this time too.

After all, the economy is still weak and millions stand to lose UE if we go over the "cliff."

[Wellstone ruled]

3. Bottom Line,Elections do have

consequences. Politics has always been the art of sharing ideas and compromising on matters that effect the general populous. When the Newtie came in in 94',that shared opinion went out the door. Look no further than the Nixon administration for the stage players of today. In your face hate filled politics really got it's foot hold with Tricky Dick,and today we are seeing the final results of Nixon's Southern Strategy playing out.

We were probably lulled to sleep in 2010 election cycle as a party,thus causing the Dems control of the House. Going forward we all have to be aware of and take a proactive role in all and every Local and State election. Changing demographics will determine what our country will have in store for us. These House Districts got jacked out of shape because to many folks just said O.K. I've got to much on plate and don't have time. Look what we have to put up with until 2020.

President Obama called the Rethugs bluff yesterday,I for one say bring it on baby. Truman did the same in 49'and 50',same garbage just a new day. History in the making every minute so,life is short so stay awake for it.

[arely staircase]

4. great post

yeah, we need to get some redistricting done and fix these maps. that is why state leg. races are so important.

[Still Sensible]

5. Unfortunately that cant happen until after

the 2020 census.

[arely staircase]

6. nope

it can be done anytime a legislature decides to do it. they just have to use the most recent census.

[freshwest]

10. Are you sure? I'd like to be able to say that, but the only changes I saw from the 2010 census were

from application of the Voting Rights Act, and that to different states. I'm going to ask around, since I don't want to be saying that and be wrong here. I'd love to be corrected on this.

[arely staircase]

11. oh yeah

they did it in texas in 2003 and all of our dems left the state to prevent a quorum. it only postponed the inevitable.

"Most House Democrats secretly left the state Sunday night to prevent Republicans from pushing through a bill that would redraw boundaries for U.S. congressional districts that were already adjusted once after the 2000 census."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/2003-05-13-texas-lawmakers_x.htm

[freshwest]

18. Okay, I thought they were using the 2000 results - unfairly though - and got aways with it.

I remember Delay working with the Texas COP to find out where they were using DHS -- a real abuse of authority. I'm going to check this out, because it makes the future swing more our way. Two things I recalled just now - this year's Ohio gerrymandering that cost Kucinich his seat - and a new district formed in WA. I'll ask around -- but I thought those changes were from the 2010 census, just applied by the state legislatures, and probably directed by their GOP governors.

The races are in the states, but many don't seem to comprehend it's all grassroots. Obama won by organizing in states. It was still miserably close.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

44. Texas was an exception in that the Republicans took the House majority in 2002.

Which gave them an opening to vote in a new map. Unless another state were to regain a Democratic House majority, and have a state constitution which permitted redistricting more than once every census cycle, it won't be happening.

[freshwest]

59. Since the Democrats now have a supermajority in Texas - and they did it in 2003 - any chance

Texas Democrats can realign the districts, since it was claimed so many were unfair, even zoning out Democrats on purpose?

Very glad to see that turn of events there, despite GOP tricks. They really thought they had their permanent GOP majority in place. And Sadler didn't do bad considering the media blackout for the most part. And the heavy predominance of RW news and CT there. Never give a Democrat the chance to speak, or so it appears.

Sadly, my 'blue' state is a half and half in the capitol - and the GOP are mostly teabaggers and libertarians. They want to dismantle everything, through privatization and cutting funds.

And some wonder why Obama is having to fight for anything - this is a natonal thing, not just in Washington, D.C. Thanks for the information.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

63. Something must have been misreported someplace.

You're the second person I've had say we took a supermajority here in Texas. I wish it were true, how I wish it were! Reality is we only managed to knock the Republicans out of their supermajority.

It's a step in the right direction though.

[freshwest]

65. Okay, that was misreported then, and I'll stop repeating it. There was a news story about it on

November 7th or so, as things were settling out, but they said that OR, CA and TX had gained Democratic supermajorities. The language was there, but it was an misinterpretation, then. As you say though, it's a step in the right direction. If you have the actual numbers, please let me know and I'll edit a post or two.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

69. I do have the numbers. They're burned in my brain actually.

We went from a 102-48 House Republican majority to a 95-55 House Republican majority. Or, a gain of 7 seats in other words. I know it doesn't sound like much, but here we call it an accomplishment.

[freshwest]

71. Wow, what I read was really off then. The GOP still holds the majority? Rats. Dirty GOP rat bastids.

[arely staircase]

72. were are not in the majority, super or otherwise

but we aren't the only state that could do this.

[ThomThom]

31. that is correct ....congress can set standards

then districts would have to be redrawn
we need to get the money out also
the rich should not be able to buy a seat

[Lone_Star_Dem]

49. This congress is useless to effect any change for the better of the people.

Which is what makes 2014 such a vital election. We're going to be fighting against some tough redistricting already in place. It's going to take a massive movement to educate the voters in the right states to make any headway.

Setting congress up to take the fall for the fiscal "cliff" is a nice start. We just need to keep the pressure on them for the next two years.

[freshwest]

9. And 2014 and 2016 are ours to lose before that.

[freshwest]

8. Excellent post.

[TrogL]

13. I seem to remember Republicans having this thing about "up and down votes" a few years ago

Whatever happened to that?

[arely staircase]

14. goose - gander and all

eom

[hfojvt]

15. that is what I would like to see

but there is ONE huge problem with it.

What does the "legislation to bring taxes back down for middle incomes" actually say? What would Reid be proposing?

Becuase if he proposes, like Obama has, to bring back 78% of the Bush tax cuts. That proposal sucks. That's a proposal that I, MYSELF, would fillibuster if I was in the US Senate.

It is far too heavily tilted towards the rich.

But neither Obama, nor Reid, nor Polosi has proposed anything better.

Neither have newly elected Senators Baldwin and Warren, who are reputed to be very progressive.

Instead, the public is presented with two shitty choices.

Obama - keep 78% of the Bush tax cuts (or he indicated that he would sign a "compromise" bill keeping 90% of them)
Republicans - keep 100% of the Bush tax cuts

The correct answer for the good of the country is "none of the above".

[arely staircase]

16. it is the 250,000 and under cut

eom

[hfojvt]

21. that is exactly what "keeping 78% of the Bush tax cuts" means

and that is a shitty proposal.

It is a proposal heavily tilted to the rich, as I have said ad nauseum http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021880321

[arely staircase]

28. oh, ok. we just disagree on that, then.

eom

[hfojvt]

37. you disagree on the facts, or on the definition of "rich"?

It does not bother you if the top 5% get more in tax cuts from the Obama proposal than the bottom 40% does?

[Skraxx]

23. Yes, Move Those Goalposts, Now Obama Is Sellout Because Tax Cuts Up to $250k are Baaaaaad!!!

ROFL!

What a laugh riot you are! You're a total parody! Good show!

[hfojvt]

24. I have not moved any goalposts

I never did like the $250,000 limit, and hated it even more when I found out how tilted it was towards the rich.

A parody?

And what are you supposed to be? Somebody who gives a crap about the working class?

I'm not buying it.

[Skraxx]

27. You're Right, You Moved The Whole Stadium

[arely staircase]

30. and the team to another town

seriously, obama could nationalize every major industry in america, arrest and guillotine all millionairs and some here would still call him a centrist, third way sellout. 'cuz that is what they do. good news is the last election showed us how statistically insignificant they are.

[Skraxx]

33. Indeed, Even Less Effective Than Mouse Fart In A Hurricane

[hfojvt]

39. but on the other hand

Obama could propose tax cuts for the rich and some here would applaud him.

Oh wait.

Yes, defenders of the working class are statistically insignificant.

The victory of the plutocrats is almost totally complete.

We all should celebrate.

[arely staircase]

42. no, we defenders of the working class re-elected the president

himself a defender of the working class.

[hfojvt]

45. and he is defending the working class

by giving tax cuts to the rich.

With defenders like that, who needs the other Koch brothers?

[arely staircase]

48. lol

and he invading syria in order to gut social security. that is how kenyans roll.

[hfojvt]

34. keep trying

someday you will find an analogy that justifies a shitty proposal.

I guess.

Maybe George W. can help.

He always claimed that his tax cuts were passed to help the unemployed and the working poor.

[Skraxx]

35. Me? Trying? Mocking You Is Easy

Doesn't take much effort.

[hfojvt]

40. Proverbs 17: 5

My fake uncles thank you for your efforts on their behalf.

[Skraxx]

41. Fake You Has Fake Uncles?

Not surprised.

[bvar22]

50. YES!.

Mocking another poster instead of answering his challenge to debate the facts is :
EASY,
Rude,
a logical fallacy,
and reveals much about YOUR values.

The Democratic Party Leadership (and YOU) are now fighting for Historically LOW Taxes on the Very Rich (39%).
Believe me when I tell you that the Very Rich will not even notice a miserly 3.5% increase on the part of their income that is labeled["Wages & Tips",

....but with Brer Rabbit screaming pitifully
"Please don't throw me in the Briar Patch".
The low information on-lookers are elbowing each other and saying,
Yeah! Throw him in the Briar Patch.
THAT'LL teach him"

Our Leadership is framing THAT as a "Democratic Victory",
and the Party Parade Followers are cheering FOR Low Taxes on the Very Rich.

They ARE good at Framing-the-Debate for the low information followers.

With a BIG Re-election,
a Big Popular Mandate for Taxing the Rich,
and a Lame Duck session,
you would think that our Party leadership could be a little bolder than settling for a 3.5% hike on the Wages, Tip, and Salaries of the very RICH.

Somebody with "audacity" would be talking about the Pre-Reagan tax Schedule.
Now THAT would be worthy of a fight.

There were many of us here in 2001 that opposed the Bush Tax Cuts at that time.
Some of us still do.

[Skraxx]

51. You Have No Facts, You Have Deliberate Distortion, Slurs, Innuendo, Character Assassination

And are worthy of only mockery.

[bvar22]

52. Without specific cites, quotes, and counter arguments,

your response to me is as worthless as every other post you have added to this thread.

I stand by my post.

Judging from your hysterical response,
my post caused you some personal Butt Hurt.
Defend Yourself.
YOU made some specific charges.
Lets see YOU back them up with logical argument.

[Skraxx]

54. You Get Exactly The Treatment You Deserve

Your cynicism, deceptions and distortions are worth only mockery. But It's cool, cuz its fun!

[hfojvt]

62. is that a direct quote

sounds like it is from Coulter "How to talk to a liberal (if you must)"

[Skraxx]

67. From Skraxx's Guide to the Internets

Chapter 11: How to Deal With Dishonest, Cynical, Despair Trolling

Mock.

[hfojvt]

56. well dividends used to be taxed as ordinary income

and presumably if the Bush tax cuts were allowed to expire, they would be again.

But that part of the "deal" is not being openly discussed.

And the other key part is that you and I and Bill Gates will all get to KEEP our tax CUTS on our first $400,000 in income.

Except I am betting that only one person in that group even comes 1/3 of the way towards making $400,000.

My income, and the income of MILLIONS of other Americans is less than $40,000. So we gain nothing from those tax cuts for my other $360,000 that I don't make.

Real tax increases are off the table. I accept not getting that pony now.

What chaps my hide is that we are being sold "middle class tax cuts" which give far more in benefits to the top 20% than they do to the 20-60% group. The 60-80% group gets decent benefits, about $58 billion a year. And I would call them middle class - UPPER middle class, but still middle class. But the lower middle class, the 20-40% group only gets $28 billion from the tax cuts.

And as good Democrats we are expected now to cheer tax cuts that help people more the higher you move up the ladder.

Next we will hear the Rush Limbaugh argument to defend it "but they pay most of the taxes, so they will ALWAYS get most of the tax cuts. Its not Bush's (er, I mean Obama's) fault that this happens."

[Lone_Star_Dem]

58. How would you propose getting anything lower than the 250K per couple past congress?

From what I'm seeing congress is not about to pass that cap, even though the 250K mark is the one the majority of Americans agree on.

[hfojvt]

60. Obama can lower that to ZERO by doing NOTHING

Then make the case to the people for better tax cuts.

He might lose that fight, but it is better to fight for something good and lose than to fight for something bad and win.

I don't want to hear "this was the best we could get" when there is not even any EFFORT to get something better.

No matter what tax cut is offered, Republicans are still in a bad spot by having to vote AGAINST a tax cut. They don't want to make it that easy for us in 2014.

[Nevernose]

64. I think you make a good point

[RedstDem]

25. Too early to count chickens

I hope there's no deal, so we can start from scratch in the new year, but sadly I'm sure things will get twisted to screw 99% of us....

[ThomThom]

26. I say go over

then fix the things that hurt workers, sick and elderly
we need to start pointing out that it was the republican philosophy that got us in this position
It is all so simple, to pay for what we already spent we need more income. The rich have it, the poor don't. So where are you going to get it? If we want to spend in the future we need to match it with revenues. When did we forget this stuff?

[notadmblnd]

38. For the middle class, I understand it is a 4% increase

That means they will withhold 4 dollars for every hundred one makes. Some one making 250 a week will lose $10.00 in take home pay.

[judesedit]

46. Only make $30,000 anually but I'll be glad to pay more if these privileged parasites have to pay up

finally. They are paying 1/3 of what they used to have to pay under Reagan in taxes but still get 100% of the perks in this country. I don't mind paying a little more at all. Just to watch them squirm over paying the 1%-4% adjustment. Remember that's what they paid during Clinton when we had a nice (4 trillion?) surplus. Still a third of what they used to pay. Wake up, Americans. Stop watching that bogus news channel that lies and brainwashes you while feeling no guilt as they laugh all the way to the bank. It's all about the $$$$ for them and 0 for you. They could care less about anyone but themselves. I hope Anonymous and the Happy Hackers, or whatever they're called, expose the hell out of all of them.

[Cha]

53. booya! Is right..

thanks for this link, arely staircase!

[MiniMe]

66. The Senate passed a bill several months ago to extend the tax cuts for the under 250k crowd

Boner won't bring it up for a vote in the house.

[arely staircase]

68. it is about to be done again

this time with everyone watching and the clock ticking.

[BanTheGOP]

70. Either way...

...we got the rethugs firmly holding onto their balls with all hands on deck. We either skewer them if they take us over the cliff, or if they agree, then we make DAMN sure that we shout from the mountaintops that the rethugs have ACKNOWLEDGED that the tax cuts imposed on our country resulted in the worst economy since the Great Depression; in fact it's far worse monetarily.

So we have to get ready to HIT, and HIT HARD, on EVERY rethug with whatever result comes out by them.

WE WIN!!!