Democrats with death wishes or trolls?

[Vietnameravet]

There's been a lot of talk on this website offering criticism of President Obama ...and response by those who are critical of the criticism.

I was thinking of writing something but decided not too until tonight under a post entitled, “POTUS To Speak at 5:45” I read one which said :”If only he had any credibility when he speaks anymore. Chained CFI indeed. Just the last in a long list .... more to come no doubt.”

And another which said: “F' what he says, he hasn't honored much of what he's said over the past four years.”

I have read he is a liar, he doesn't care about seniors, he is evil, right on this site and now this! Trolls must be enjoying a good laugh at our expense! So I am going to speak, fully aware that I am going to get blasted. Well so be it!

Less than two months ago everyone was talking about how wonderful it was that Obama got reelected but here it is, before he is even inaugurated for his second term, and one would think he is the reincarnation of Benedict Arnold!

A lot of it centers around the Chained-CPI which has generated near hysterics even before the full details have been released. Yes, one minute he is our brilliant captain and leader and the next the knives come out, even before the details do.

Reading some of these posters reminds me of a football team where every player insists on doing things their particular way and if that doesn't happen they want to take their football back and sack the quarterback.

I can't help but think of four years ago when Obama was first elected and how everyone said the Republican Party had become the party of dinosaurs. Oh! They were a dead and dying breed on their way to total extinction.

Two years later those "dead dinosaurs" arose from the ground and stomped our faces and kicked our asses!

One of the reasons they did is because Democratic voters were not as "enthusiastic" as the Republicans. They were "demoralized and depressed" because Obama had to engage in compromise and didn't give them everything they wanted the moment they wanted it. Millions of them said; “Boo Hoo! I didnt get my way. I guess I will not vote. Instead I will stay home, feel sorry for myself and take Prozac instead!”

So the dead dinosaurs came back to life and proceeded to gerrymander congressional districts in their favor. As a result, two years later, even though the Democrats got more votes, the Republicans got more congressional seats.

Now once again we see the same scenario. Democrats, not simply urging the president to stand stronger or get a better deal, but actually attacking him in a very personal way with howls of outrage and cries of betrayal. Once again, as they have done so many times in the past, “Democrats” are now circling the wagons and shooting at each other!

(Or is this the work of trolls as I often suspect?)

Positive suggestions and helpful advice are one thing but “F' the President,” calling him a liar, evil and more is either the work of trolls or Democratic suicide bombers.

Last week, on the Ed Schultz show I heard some woman saying, “I want my vote back!”

Well guess what? Maybe, thanks to her and others like her, we will see the dinosaurs take complete control.

I have already heard Democrats shaking their heads asking, “How could the people ever elect Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr., and Bush again?!"

You fill in the name for the next time, just don't wonder why, when it happens, because you have just been told.

[quinnox]

1. yea, some folks get angry when they think they might be getting sold out or sold up the river

Can you blame them? These are human reactions.

[Control-Z]

12. Some people just hate President Obama.

Certain members have nothing nice to say, ever, when it comes to our president. If they hated him for the entire four years of his first term and said as much, and are hating him even more now that he's been reelected, just when exactly were they democrats who supported a democratic president? Before he was elected the first time when they voted for McCain?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

13. Does criticism equal hatred to you?

[Control-Z]

17. We're not talking about criticism here.

The thread in question has opinions that are straight out Obama bashing. Same as yesterday. Same as tomorrow. By the same poster. Always the same. Mean spirited and full of hatred. Do a search and read a little if you honestly want to understand.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

31. You need to link it instead of alluding to it please.

[Control-Z]

90. Excuse me?

I NEED to link to something? No. No, I don't think so.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

94. You're excused.

Your quote: "The thread in question has opinions that are straight out Obama bashing."

And yet you have no inclination to at the very least link to it?


Weak. Very weak indeed.


Goodnight.

[FarPoint]

116. Just read the Board......

many, many, many threads and replies...it's not hard to see them.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

125. Many, many, many posts with nothing to back it up with.

Okay, this is not constructive, and it is reminiscent of red scare tactics or witch hunts.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

67. Are you going to link to the thread in question?

I would really like to read it.

[Control-Z]

93. Then search for it.

On DU we don't call out other members, by name or link, for even their worst indiscretions. Bringing it up is as close as I will come to crossing the line. Do a search.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

95. If you are going to accuse others of hatred you should at least link to the thread.

Otherwise you have nothing, and that is very troubling.

Weak.

[Control-Z]

100. Good try, new-comer.

You might read up on the TOS at DU. And buy a star if you're that curious - so you can use search feature.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

102. Thanks for everything which turned out to be nothing.

[Summer Hathaway]

32. Does hatred equal criticism to you? n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

37. Criticism equals criticism. You can ignore it, listen to it, learn from it

or call it hatred.

Those that see it that way need to re-evaluate their priorities.

[Summer Hathaway]

39. That's not an answer.

There is valid criticism of this president. There is also hatred directed at this president.

They are two very different things - and pretending that expressions of hatred are synonymous with criticism is naive at best.

And those who see them as one and the same should be re-evaluating their own priorities.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

44. That is an answer. It is an answer that you do not want, but it is a answer. A logical one.

[Summer Hathaway]

48. It's the lack of logic that is so obvious.

And it's still not an answer.

Are you honestly saying that anyone/everyone who criticizes this president does so as a concerned citizen with legitimate gripes - that there is no one here who simply spews their vitriol under the guise of 'criticism'?

If so, your naivete is pretty astounding.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

53. So you demand that others agree with you and use insults when you don't get your way. So what?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

58. It's a big nothing within another nothing.

Lots of wind and no storm.

[Summer Hathaway]

77. If you're vying for the "Non Sequitar Award of the Year"

I think you've won it, hands down.

[Summer Hathaway]

87. Project much? n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

56. Here's an idea. Link to the offensive post or relax.

I'm seeing a lot of pitchforks and torches but no monster.

[Summer Hathaway]

80. You're the one insisting

that every anti-Obama post on this board is valid 'criticism', and there are no posts based purely on Obama hating.

Does that include the RW trolls who post here? Does that include the "yeah, he didn't come out and say it, but I KNOW what he's thinking" posts?

If you honestly believe there are no participants on this board whose sole motivation is hatred of Obama, I can only stand back in awe of your naivete - or, more to the point, your selective ignorance on the subject.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

104. I never wrote that.

Criticism is valid.

I never wrote that every anti-Obama post on this board is valid 'criticism.'

That is very disingenuous of you.


You have no credibility with me any longer.

Good night.

[Summer Hathaway]

106. Oh, really?

I am truly heartbroken that I no longer have any credibility with you. It was what I've lived for up until now. Whatever shall I do?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

107. Have a good night.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

54. It's much more of an answer than you gave to me.

I keep on reading all this charged language of hatred directed at the POTUS, and still have not seen it.

If it is giving you night terrors then place an alert and let it go from there.

I haven't pretended anything, but I can say that the pretense is coming in the form of purity tests now.

Are we going back to that again?

[Summer Hathaway]

76. Purity tests ...

Do you mean the OPs that begin, "You're not a progressive unless you believe that ...," "You're not a real Democrat unless you agree that ...,", or, "You're not a true liberal unless you support ..."?

Yeah, I've seen those.

If you are truly unaware of the hatred directed at this President, I can only surmise that you do a lot of selective reading of DU posts.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

78. I've asked you a few times to link to the offensive threads.

I'm beginning to believe that there is none.


So do you want to link to the offensive threads? Did you alert on them?

[Summer Hathaway]

83. I have never alerted on anything on DU.

That's because I consider myself to be, for the most part, a non-participating observer.

Yeah, I know, I know - I break my own rules on a regular basis, because I just can't help myself from weighing-in on the more ridiculous notions posted here.

But seriously - if you want to believe that there are no offensive anti-Obama threads here, or that everyone on DU is a committed Democrat with no agenda other than supporting the ideals of the party, feel free to do so.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

96. That's very high minded of you. Very commendable.

Do you have a link that you can post, or do you have anything else?

Usually when one makes accusations they should back it up.

[Summer Hathaway]

101. Being high-minded has nothing to do with it.

It has to do with recognizing that not all anti-Obama threads are born of true criticism, or true concern.

But if you choose to believe they are, so be it.

Asking me to link to every post I believe is founded in pure Obama hatred is like me asking you to link to every anti-Obama post and explain how it's NOT pure Obama hatred.

You became tiresome a long time ago. But I suspect you knew that all along.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

103. I have seen a lot of bluster tonight.

I have seen a few posters who are making blanket statements without having to back it up.

Bluster.

Of the few posters I wrote to about this not one of them had the ability to link to the offending post.

Since that is the case I guess that the posts don't exist...that this hatred doesn't exist, and this has been an exercise in wasting DUers time.

I asked you to link one...any. You couldn't do that.

Big fail.

Big fail.

[Summer Hathaway]

105. I'm not quite sure

where you get off thinking that if someone doesn't link to offending posts that means such offending posts don't exist.

It is also against DU rules to "call out" fellow posters in such a manner.

"Since that is the case I guess that the posts don't exist...that this hatred doesn't exist, and this has been an exercise in wasting DUers time."

By all means, keep believing (or 'guessing') that. It's exactly what you want to believe anyway, so I won't rain on your particular delusional parade.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

108. Have a good night.

[Summer Hathaway]

111. You, too! n/t

[tavalon]

50. Thank you.

I adore the man and his family and yet, I see places where his personal weaknesses have hurt us. But, whenever I say anything here, I get labeled an Obama hater and racist. I am neither and as well, I voted for this man two times now. I hold his feet to the fire, as he requested.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

61. "I hold his feet to the fire, as he requested."

That is the least that we should be doing in a participatory Democracy.

[tavalon]

92. The absolute least

[arely staircase]

140. exactly

i love it when people who have hated obama from day 1 talk about how disappointed they are in him. disappointed he won, sure. but other than that....

[RobertEarl]

2. Victim blaming?

That's what your OP sounds like.

Real future money and the promise of that SS money is being dealt away so that rich bankers can steal even more and you want that we should just take it lying down?

Thank gawd people are standing up for democracy and exercising their right to free speech. And that pisses you off?

[abelenkpe]

25. +1000 nt

[daa]

3. I did not send money and vote to cut social security and Medicare or Medicaid

We voted overwhelmingly to raise taxes on the rich, secure the social reforms and create jobs so people can make a living and grow the economy. You can sugar coat coat it but the positive suggestions you want we're decided in the election. Obama isn't listening. Pelosi isn't listening. Austerity failed Europe and will fail here.

[Fumesucker]

4. Wait, let me guess, it was the Emo Progs who stayed home in 2010?

To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, go sell stupid somewhere else, we're all stocked up here.

[quinnox]

6. + 100

nice line.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

45. That's still a great line. Thanks for the laugh.

[GeorgeGist]

5. Moderate Republicans

Aren't really Democrats.

[RC]

29. But right of center Democrats enable Republicans.

3rd Way, Corporatist, DINO's ,etc.

[limpyhobbler]

7. I could not disagree more.

We have the right and the duty to speak up in defense of working families against Wall Street Tools who try to cut Social Security, Medicare and veterans' benefits. I can't believe anybody is actually OK with that shit.

[quinnox]

8. yup, it's like the OP is surprised that people are upset over

things they hear in the news like possible cuts to their social programs that many rely upon just to get by every day. What, does the OP think these folks should just gladly accept whatever happens, with a smile on their face? -- "Oh, I'm so grateful for whatever our all knowing and wise leaders decide is right for me!"

[Skidmore]

14. Well, doggonit, let's just take out the Dems because I'm sure

Boehner and McConnell will be happy to take care of your needs.

[amandabeech]

38. Let's take our Democrats to the woodshed when they follow Wall Street

and the 1% and don't listen to their voters.

Sure, the Dems will always be better than the Republicans, but in some cases, just a little better.

No Dem President or presidential candidate prior to Bill Clinton would even have thought about doing anything with SS that would result in an elderly person having less ten years from now than she has today.

Can you imagine LBJ doing that? Any of the Kennedys doing that? FDR?

That's my standard. That's where my criticism starts. That's a Democratic position, and I don't understand anyone who would call that anything else.

And no, I didn't like and don't like the Clintons, either.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

46. Even the Republican Presidents from Nixon through Bush-43 didn't offer to cut SS.

From now on, cutting Social Security will always be on the negotiating tables.

[amandabeech]

110. I just don't understand how people here and among the Democratic members of Congress

can even think of this, particularly when the rich are getting richer and complaining about their taxes.

Is there no heart left in this party?

[JDPriestly]

59. My Congressman is a progressive Democrat. I support him wholeheartedly.

I wish that more DUers would work to elect progressive Democrats to Congress. Some of the members of Congress who claim to be Democrats are not. They are what Republicans used to be.

And now, the Republicans are about as close to cannibalistic as any party has ever been in the history of our nation. They would eat their young if they thought it would bring them profit.

In fact, isn't that what chartered schools are about? Eating the young for profit? (At least eating the minds of the young for profit.)

[Liberalynn]

9. +1

[LWolf]

10. DU can be

a circle jerk of group think, disallowing dissent,

OR it can be a place to discuss relevant political events and issues.

DU is a censored site, supporting Democrats. It used to be a "left-wing" discussion board, welcoming Democrats and other progressives. That's changed quite a bit since '08, and since DU3. Over the years, DU has moved steadily away from the left.

Interestingly, when I joined, I was fairly moderate. I'm now too far left to keep many on the site happy, yet I haven't changed my positions.

The name calling and personal attacks are not necessary; one can disagree with the POTUS' policies and administration without that.

It's not a surprise, though. How many DUers delight in exactly that when discussing republicans? It's okay for them, but not for Democrats on DU.

That's hypocrisy. Clean up the whole house, or let it stand.

[L0oniX]

16. +1

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

11. Is Pelosi lying?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/19/1172079/-Pelosi-This-benefits-cut-isn-t-really-a-benefits-cut#

Though Chained CPI would reduce lifetime benefits relative to the current cost of living adjustment formula, Pelosi said she does not consider it a benefit cut.

“No, I don’t,” consider it a benefit cut, she said. “I consider it a strengthening of Social Security.”



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/nancy-pelosi-social-security_n_2333285.html

Pelosi told reporters on Capitol Hill that a cut proposed by President Barack Obama in the fiscal cliff negotiations would in fact "strengthen" the program, echoing the claims often made by Republicans about entitlement programs they want to slash.
--
The cuts would start small, but wind up costing beneficiaries thousands of dollars over time, which is why Democrats have traditionally fought the idea.

But Pelosi wrapped both her arms around it Wednesday, insisting she does not regard it as a "cut."


Any fool should know that politicians

1) aren't gods to be worshiped

2) need to have their feet held to the fire every time they veer off course

3) serve the public and not the other way around.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

57. Is she a politician?

One that once said, for example, "Impeachment is off the table."

[JDPriestly]

60. She is lying. Remember how she gave in to Henry Paulson when he begged for

a bail-out for the banks. That was the beginning of the end for the USA.

She is a great woman, but not all that great.

[BlueCaliDem]

114. Paulson also threatened martial law if the House didn't vote for the bank bail outs

back in October 2008.

But don't take my word for it (you might not believe a word an Obama supporter tells you), but take it from Rep. Sherman.

[L0oniX]

15. The fact that any Dem is even talking about anything to do with SS, Medicare and Medicaid...

speaks volumes. For many I am sure the election was about the lessor of two ev..whatevers.

[L0oniX]

21. LMAO n/t

[AnotherMcIntosh]

49. You're obviously using the wrong insult. When someone has been here for a while, you're supposed to

call them a "purist."

[JDPriestly]

62. Let's see. A trollfinder with 1,000 some posts and a "troll" with over 15,000 posts. Hmmmm!

The "troll" appears to have hidden himself rather well through many, many posts.

Now does that make sense to anyone.

[L0oniX]

70. I'm sneeky aren't I.

[MindandSoul]

18. thank you for speaking up and calling the trolls and the false Democrats in this forum.

[Skittles]

20. I have not trashed Obama over these negotiations

but people have EVERY RIGHT to speak up - AND SHOULD - if they don't care for SS being kicked around like a political football

[Luminous Animal]

22. Well... the reason why you heard little criticism of Obama's policies is because

we weren't allowed. Or rather, if we did criticize policy chances were better than not, we'd be PPRed.

Now that the threat of being banished is lifted, democratic and Democratic activists can speak freely.

I do agree that calling Obama a liar is unproductive. It's best to keep the focus on policies and decisions from all branches of government and ignore personal insults but you seem to be saying more here. You seem to saying that we must ALWAYS be in election mode. That we can NEVER advocate for a position that is contrary to our Democratic "leaders" lest we seem weak before the ENEMY.

And another thing, though Obama has hinted at changes to Social Security and though we heard leaked rumors of a chained CPI starting around 2011, it has been only recently that We The (apparently little) People have been allowed to hear of SOME of the details of the Admins proposals.

And that is bullshit. We The People should have been privy to everything and should have had ample time to discuss and petition our representatives; including the one in the White House. Instead we get coy media leaks that operatives can deny until it is too late to gather a coalition to muscle our representatives. Instead we get, CRISIS! CLIFF! WE ONLY HAVE A FEW DAYS OR WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!.

Again, bullshit.

[quinnox]

41. + 1000

[JDPriestly]

65. Going off the cliff means we go back to laws that were policy for years and did us well.

I have no problem with that.

[Luminous Animal]

84. I agree.

[L0oniX]

71. [phone]

[liberal_at_heart]

23. they have to earn our vote

that old meme of if you don't vote democrat it is your fault the republicans win doesn't work anymore. If the republicans win it is because the democratic politicians didn't earn our vote. I don't give my vote to anybody. They have to earn it.

[quinnox]

42. + 1000

[RickFromMN]

24. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If we don't squeak, everything must be okay.

Why shouldn't we squeak if someone floats a trial balloon regarding Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid?

Why shouldn't we squeak if we feel President Obama needs to be a better negotiator with the Republicans?

Last year I would have said President Obama was the Great Capitulator.

Now I am more pleased with President Obama.
I'm please President Obama is keeping the Republicans the ones we blame when we go over the Fiscal Cliff.
The Republicans deserve the blame. It's their fault.

I still worry President Obama will revert to Capitulation mode or self negotiation mode.

I know people say we have to compromise to govern and the Republicans don't want government.
We have to stop giving away positions we already have; sometimes no deal is better than a bad deal.

President Obama is big enough to take criticism. The criticism is meant to help him.
President Obama doesn't need a bunch of yes men. When things are not okay, we must squeak.

[elleng]

26. Thanks, vet.

I'm now doubting my inclination to 'alert' DUers to public events/appearances, due to the response to my earlier post, and appreciate your thoughts.

[DirkGently]

27. Yes. People should *politely* point out Obama is dead wrong on SS.

[unblock]

28. k&r. op draws a nice distinction between constructive criticism and cynical anti-obama-ism.

too bad many others here don't appreciate the difference.

objecting to chained-cpi, for instance, is helpful and constructive.

objecting to the white house announcing that the president will make a statement is unhelpful and destructive.

[sellitman]

30. Next we will hear Ed from his namesake show telling us not to vote.

Just like the bastard did in 2010.

That had such a fine effect now didn't it?

[Neon2012]

33. I agree with this post.

People on this site flip out before anything happens. Yes they're free to express their opinions about SS and Chained CPI.

Here's mine. STFU.

Obama has our back. Trust him.

Edit to add:
Or at least wait until something happens to express anger about it.

[Oilwellian]

63. Yes, we must wait until AFTER it's signed into law

[Neon2012]

73. And complaining about it on DU

will prevent it from happening?

Refrain from being angry until there's something to be angry about.

[triplepoint]

34. I Offer Constructive Criticism of the President

and hope that we progressives can with that tool, push him to do the right thing when the time to do so arrives. FDR was pushed into doing the right thing at the right time. We must do the same with President Obama.
..
..
.

.
.

[NashvilleLefty]

69. Criticism? oh, yes. Constructive? er...no.

These are different times. Release yourself from your restrictive mindset.

[stupidicus]

35. oh good grief, another "I'll decide when and over what BHO can be criticized!"

post.

will they never end?

INDEPENDENTS – It's swing-voting independents who, as usual, made the difference today. Independents favored Republicans for House by a thumping 15 points, 55-40 percent, in the national exit poll. Compare that to Obama's 8-point win among independents in 2008.

If it holds in updates, it'll be the Republicans' biggest win among independents in exit polls dating to 1982 – by a single point. The GOP won independents by 14 points in 1994, the last time they took control of the House. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/vote-2010-elections-results-midterm-exit-poll-analysis/story?id=12003775 ANd the voter turnout was higher than in 2006 http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html

If you wanna blame that on something, try the media. http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brunitedstatescanadara/671.php

or blame it on the dems themselves

What's the problem?

1. Getting young voters to the polls is about more than the candidate. Some of the youngest and most tech-savvy Democratic contenders in 2010 lost. And that's a fact that President Obama ought to note as he prepares for a difficult 2012 reelection campaign. While Obama was on the winning side of the enthusiasm gap in 2008, he may not be there in 2010.

2. Democrats have not done enough for young people. While there have been some important initiatives with regard to student loans, and while the federal stimulus bill did a lot to keep colleges open and affordable, there was never a sense that 18-to-29-year-olds were a central—or even prominent—concern of the Obama administration or the aging Democratic leadership in the House and Senate.

3. Even where Democrats did deliver—as on the student loan front—they did a lousy job of communicating about their accomplishments. Imagine Democrats failing to remind seniors of their work to protect Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and you get the picture. Democrats also failed to develop a youth agenda that would have made a case to young people for getting to the polls and giving Obama's party the majorities it needed to advance meaningful legislation.

4. There are still problems with access to the polls for young people, especially those living in campus settings where local officials are frequently accused of erecting barriers to young voters. Champaign County's Shelden, a Republican, was accused of setting up an early-voting center in an area that was hard for students to reach. That was a common complaint around the country, and it is easier to blame physical and technical factors. But there is scant evidence that Democrats made themselves champions of youth voting. And if the Democrats won't fight for the right of young people to vote, they should not expect much in the way of 18-to-29-year-old turnout.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/156470/young-voter-turnout-fell-60-2008-2010-dems-wont-win-2012-if-trend-continues#

but don't blame it on a few isolated posters and people you happen to stumble across.

ANd if all you have as evidence for this "dems are being their own worst enemy" crap, is a few posters here on DU and isolated comments you've seen in the media, well, you lose. The point of the criticisms is to have them heard and action taken on them. All this conflating being done with honest and concerned criticizers with a distinct minority that may or may not have ignoble motives, is an insult to those of us who have noble ones, and more representative of your deficits of various kinds than anything else.

ANd anybody with the political acumen greater than that of a slug could likely figure out that without some moderation occurring the in rank ranks of rightwingnut pols and pundits, the chances of them taking all the marbles are nil.

I do however find all this fearmongering done in an effort to silence criticisms quite amusing.

[The Green Manalishi]

36. He's an SOB. But at least he's OUR SOB

To my mind anyone who wants that kind of power is evil. Anyone who has achieved it has already had to sell out.

The most we can hope for in ANY politician is to have one we 'bought' (through campaign contributions, working our tails off, debating reich-wing idiots, driving friends to the polls) to STAY BOUGHT.

Politicians are corrupt thugs. It's no more of a value judgement than saying an NFL linebacker is big and strong, a basketball player is tall, a boxer hits people. Nice, decent people don't play the game any more than 130 lb females play in the NFL or uncoordinated short people play in the NBA/

All I ask, but what I demand, of the candidates I support is that they push for what they said they would push for and fight what they said they would fight; beyond that I don't care who or what they have carnal, financial or spiritual relations with. In other words, the fact that he is handsome, articulate, has a beautiful wife and daughters, projects a wonderful image of a urbane, biracial rational leader is fine and dandy, but doesn't mean squat if he sells out my retirement. I'm not a fan boy, I am one of his bosses, we hired him and we have no one but ourselves to blame if we fail to use every means available to correct his course when he tries to take the easy or dishonest way out.

We hired President Obama to *NOT* sell out the old, the sick, and the unfortunate to the interests of corporate america and the designs of the billionaires and multinationals.

*ANY* cut *OR* diminution in the indexing of any social benefit which we - Democrats, Labor, progressives - have fought tooth and nail for over the last 80 years is OFF THE TABLE. Period. Stray from that and damn right, I'll give my president hell- online, to his face, to his switchboard, to those who prevaricate, rationalize or breath even a word of compromise.

Hang every billionaire and confiscate everything owned by every millionaire, nationalize every corporation, imprison very son of a bitch scab and throw every teabagger into a gulag in the middle of the desert before we cut ONE CENT of Social Security, Medicare or medicaid.

[iamthebandfanman]

40. Nope, just democrats who like to practice what we preach..

and happen to think ideology is more important than 'being a good democrat'.
:p

[AnotherMcIntosh]

51. Well, if Obama's actions show that he's in favor of that, I guess we will have to be so as well.

Or at least that is what is being demanded of us.

For those who want to squelch any contrary views, why don't they just go to the BOG. There, no criticism of Obama is allowed.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1102

[Le Taz Hot]

47. Oh, ffs.

Didn't we just have one of these yesterday? This is a discussion board. We DISCUSS. If you want one-dimensional thinking and goose-stepping to the party line, you might want to check out FreeRepublic. They don't allow dissent there. Nor thinking for that matter which is, apparently, what you are demanding.

Here's another suggestion, one yesterday's poster apparently "just discovered" (after 5 years of being on DU ,) try "ignore" and "Hide Thread" if your sensibilities are disturbed by dissent. Good luck in your echo chamber.

[JDPriestly]

52. Welcome to DU. On this website, we do not all have to agree with the president all the time.

I am a Democrat, not an Obamacrat. I really like Obama, but frankly, he was born a long time after I was. I was a Democrat from childhood on, long before he was born.

Social Security is the keystone policy of the Democratic Party.

Social Security was enacted long before Obama was born. Those of us who are defending it are thinking in the long term. Obama is the short term.

Please note my post count. I am a loyal Democrat. I worked hard to make sure Obama would be elected as did many other seniors like me.

The chained CPI is an abomination and a betrayal.

We older people now on Social Security paid the tax rates that working people and the wealthy will pay in January. It did not hurt us. It helped the economy.

Blaming generations that paid those slightly higher tax rates and cutting back on the earned benefits of the generations that paid the higher tax rates is a terrible, immoral thing to do.

I am still young enough to criticize incompetence and error. I am now old enough to have the benefit of a view of history that makes me qualified to recognize incompetence and error.

Democrats who do not understand what a serious blow the chained CPI would be to the Democratic Party (considering Social Security is a cornerstone of our party historically, practically and morally) will learn a hard lesson should the chained CPI become law.

Democrats won the election. To discuss chipping away at Social Security via the chained CPI after winning that big in a contentious election is equivalent to throwing away all the hard work we did.

I am no troll. I am simply honest and a lifelong Democrat.

[HereSince1628]

55. It's nice. The new people feel right at home and are comfortable to not hold back

I mean think about it.

Really.

T.H.I.N.K. about it.

[JDPriestly]

72. Yes. It is good that new people feel welcome.

But some appear to be trying to push out older DUers who have been learning and exchanging ideas here for many years. The newerbees should be paying attention to some of us more seasoned posters and not calling us Trolls. It's ridiculous to call people with many thousands of posts trolls just because they speak critically of the president.

That is not the DU way.

I am seeing that intolerance more and more on DU. I wonder who some of the newer posters are. Some of them, a significant number of them, seem to have relatively conservative views on a number of political issues and lock-step views on Obama. This same thing is appearing again and again: get rid of anyone who dares to criticize one of Obama's policies.

I'm not writing of anyone specific, but I am beginning to wonder whether we have been invaded by people paid to blog pro-Obama stuff.

Obama is not the sum total of the Democratic Party. Is he or are his followers trying to purify the Democratic Party of real old-fashioned, FDR Democrats? I'm really wondering.

This is not the first thread of this type: hate the Obama critics; hate the more liberal Democrats; down with the FDR legacy.

Where is this coming from?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

91. I'm not sure where this is coming from. Well that's not exactly true.

I can guess where it is coming from. It does not come from years of questioning and expecting answers instead of soundbites.

It does not come from tolerance of opinion or the desire expect the highest commitment from our elected officials.

Usually the actions that ones sees with this level of contempt for the opinions of longstanding members would be on par with a political fundamentalist of some sort.

[JDPriestly]

109. Yes. It doesn't make sense to walk into the room, stay 15 minutes and then start telling everyone

what they are supposed to be doing and not doing. Strange. If one person does it, you figure that is just an anomaly, but when you see a lot people suddenly appearing and trying to tell old-timers to stick to the party line, you really wonder.

It's no one person. This is become a fad on this website. It's as if we have been invaded by people to the right of traditional Democrats.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

112. I have called a couple of posters on this and they went cold.

I ask them to show me a link to these haters. They balk. They hem. They haw.

One told me to buy a star and go look for it. Really.

This is the kind of attitude that I battled with the RW crazies on craigslist for years.

I gave up there. Now I have to do this with Democrats? Here? I'm not sure that they are the kind of Democrats I would recognize.


Oh BTW, Ive enjoyed your posts for the past 10 years.

[patrice]

128. You know, I'd credit that if I hadn't just recently seen the exact reciprocal of it coming from

"the Left".

I'd credit what you're saying if I thought you'd say the same thing if OP was representing your part of the political spectrum. That HAS happened on this board time and time again. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I suspect were OP part of what calls itself "the Left" you would welcome the comments gladly.

You claim a "right" that you are not willing to yield to others; that makes it a PRIVILEGE.

[patrice]

129. Why is newness necessarily a subterfuge? Are you claiming power privilege based on seniority?

Kind of authoritarian of you, no?

And we all know what happens to authoritarians of whatever political stripe, don't we. We know what happens to those who seek to control others, which of course is the essence of "authority" whatever it's basis.

Power for power's sake alone is fascism.

[JDPriestly]

137. I do not agree with other posters from time to time, but I have only tried to report someone

or exclude them from a board or group maybe once or twice in all this time.

I do not have anyone on ignore.

If I disagree with someone, I want to question myself to know why. I view a different opinion as a challenge to think my opinions through more thoroughly.

That is what I believe this website is here for.

People who begin to post here and immediately start criticizing the fact that others express opinions other than their own apparently haven't figured out the purpose of the site.

It's like the oaf who walks into a party and immediately starts complaining loudly that the music is too loud, the food too cold and the drinks too bitter.

It's boorish behavior. No harm in pointing that out.

I will not be bullied. Got over that long ago.

[patrice]

130. In Occupy GAs, newer speakers were placed to the front of the speaking cue; WHY do you suppose they

did that?

[JDPriestly]

138. To include them and make them feel welcome, not to encourage them to

take leadership positions. In fact, in Occupy, as I understand it, if you were to take a temporary leadership position, you had to bring something positive, not pick on and criticize the old-timers.

The new people who are criticizing those of us who express our doubts about some of Obama's policies are trying to bully US into silence.

I'm not criticizing them for having opinions that differ from mine. I am criticizing them for trying to intimidate me verbally and silence me.

No way.

[patrice]

141. wow. The functions of all GA practices and procedures were to enhance horizontal EMPOWERMENT, the

leadership potentials of ALL persons, newbies and old-timers, equally powerful.

My perception of what is going on around here is that there is way too much tendency to think and say the worst about absolutely everyone except those with whom we agree. EVERYONE is doing this. There are no innocent parties. And too many people regard questions as some sort of assault or insult and refuse to answer them which indicates a strong possibility of defensiveness motivated by an inability to stand to questions and SHOW why you have the position you have.

There are people on here whom I don't respond to, because they are like you say they are, but it's not everyone. All of us should make more effort with those who don't understand us, or even with those who intentionally negate for no reason other than to be negative, because to engage them constructively, even if it does no good for them personally, is good for the general level of discourse here and that includes newbies.

[patrice]

131. Isn't one of the things we are fighting the privileges accrued to seniority?nt

[JDPriestly]

139. No. What an absurd idea.

What we are fighting are privileges accrued to bad ideas, to greed and to cruelty among other things. Seniority is not a problem. It depends on the senior.

[NCarolinawoman]

122. Well said.

[BlueStreak]

64. Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall this President saying

that this was "our victory" and it wasn't all about Barack Obama. Some of us are not happy with an administration that in many ways of practically indistinguishable from the one that preceded it.

The Patriot act still stands.

The "Too big to fail" banks are still too big to fail

We are still pissing billions away on a war that has no purpose in Afghanistan.

All the basic principles that this candidate stated during the campaign are actually up for negotiation

It is not just fair and reasonable for us to comment on these things. It is our duty to do so. If anybody doesn't get that, that's your problem.

[One of the 99]

66. I disagree with the President on many issues

but I still support him. It is unrealistic to expect any elected official to 100% in line with our own political agenda and viewpoints. The problem with many is that they want total ideological purity, which is impossible in government, and as soon as a politician deviates from that purity in the slightest; they start beating their chests and screaming that they've been betrayed. In the end it just makes the perfect the enemy of the good (and my apologies for using this overused phrase. The reality is that no politician is going to stick their neck out if they can't count on the backing of their base. So in the end the 100% purity requirement of some has the opposite effect on some elected officials who won't take a bold stand because they know they'll be attacked by the other side and abandoned by their own.

[Doctor_J]

68. This lie is getting really tired

One of the reasons they did is because Democratic voters were not as "enthusiastic" as the Republicans. They were "demoralized and depressed" because Obama had to engage in compromise and didn't give them everything they wanted the moment they wanted it. Millions of them said; “Boo Hoo! I didnt get my way. I guess I will not vote. Instead I will stay home, feel sorry for myself and take Prozac instead!”

The voters who didn't show up in 2010 were the independents, who voted in hopes that the Bush debacle would be undone, and were pissed when Obama and the huge Dem majorities refused to take on the Repukes.

This sort of vanity post is great for getting rec's, but is complete bullshit just the same.

Edit: BTW it is you cheerleaders who insist that every move by the president, regardless of how Republican it is, must be lauded, are the ones with the Death Wish (for the party and the country). If you really insist on cheering for torture, wars, domestic spying, destruction of public schools and unions, giveaway of public lands, ignoring of white collar crimes, and so on, you should probably start obamafanclub.com. That way the president's fans ((R) and (D)) can have a place to share the love, while those of us who prefer the politics of Sanders, Grayson, Boxer, and the progressive caucus can use this one.

[L0oniX]

75. Excellent!

[djean111]

118. Yes. Thank you.

[arthritisR_US]

119. I am a real fan of the President. That being said

I cannot disagree with a thing you have said. In all of those issues I have been sorely disappointed. Too often than not I have seen, what I perceive as, unnecessary capitulation.

[backscatter712]

74. Despair trolls.

What do you think it is?

[Egalitarian Thug]

79. Bullshit. The details of what the chained CPI will do have been out for weeks.

This (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022087173#post1) is what's being done while you whine about how mean people are being to the President.

I completely understand why the people that matter view us all with such open contempt. Even those who pretend to know what is going and are supposedly paying attention choose to ignore what really matters. This is what you are being stuck with by everybody you are watching. This is what your grand children will be struggling with. This is why your life sucks, and you can't even be bothered to notice because you didn't see it on the TV.

We are getting exactly what we deserve, and a whole lot more of it is coming soon.

Suckers.

[lunasun]

81. "Hold my feet to the fire"

That is from Obama's first inauguration speech.
Some folks just disagree and complain with swear words more than others are used to..
I do not think that particular poster referenced in the start of the post is a troll
Other posters I have read I am not so sure!!!
Some of the drama & hysterics are over the top for many subjects-not just Obama
But, diversity without hysteria should be encoutaged imo.
If you can not speak up and must sit down and shut up / not rock the boat etc.it is a weak boat to begin with.
We the people should be able to speak up.
A few here dissing him are obvious trolls and have low posts so I think most here would not care what they say anyway.

[Lionessa]

82. Oh MY GOSH! This is about me...

What a delightful thread. Perfect end to a lovely evening out with a gentleman at a buffet style restaurant which was perfect as I don't eat being homeless and all, a lovely drive across LA where I could really look around, chattering the whole time because I like to and he thought I was entertaining and cheerful, not one lewd or crass remark, a totally nice evening and I come back to a most delightful call out.

You guys rock! THANK YOU for understanding that it isn't hatred, I don't hate him. It's fear, it's two years of homelessness, it's despair over whether there's any point to any type of effort tomorrow, it could all be naught, it's been four years. For some of us the consequences of his policies and his failures to be who he says he'll be, the fights he tucked tail and ran from, the time spent with Boehner versus Reid or Pelosi..... It's not hatred, it's the reality. And some of us are feeling it more than others. I'm thrilled not everyone has to be me, or any of the 10s or even 100s of thousands of citizens living by the grace of friends or family, or worse....

It's not hatred, it just isn't. At least it isn't me upon him, I don't cause him suffering due to my opinions and actions. Visa versa?...hmmm.. who hates whom?

[L0oniX]

89. +1

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

99. Sad photo. Sad.

[patrice]

127. Some of us wouldn't have a problem if THIS was a/the priority, but that's not what is

happening here.

What is happening here is that THIS is equated with (true story) someone calling their insurance company for coverage of some sort and being directed toward consideration of a preventative program of one type or another as an example, to the poster, of how the hateful BO, through the ACA, is implementing a conspiracy to _______________________ .

The emo prog movement has equated what you have posted here with any and every bitchy gripe, actual, but more imagined at this point, that anyone can come up with, as a justification to undercut the President's options (because of a base that's eroding around the edges where he needs strength the most to do the most radical things) to make substantive political moves on this or anything else.

Imagine, someone (???? = remember we don't actually know who in a lot of cases) demands that you do the most radical thing conceivable about X and then you do it and then that base making that radical demand, does it solidify? or does it morph into another radical demand and threaten your base further? Does it commit to you and do work supporting the issue that they supposedly care soooooooooooooo much about? Does it disappear? What concretely happens after you acquiesce to radical demands?

THAT's a legitimate and a very real question with all radical demands that are held to no criteria, no responsibility, ON THE FACTS. If it's ALL emotions, SELF justifying emotions, emotions can morph from one thing to another. You can go to the max for the demanders, and perhaps even achieve some degree of success on their demands, but THE SUPPORT for all of that is so ephemeral that that success itself on whatever their issue was CAN be destroyed/betrayed because it's not built on much that is factual much more than "I/we" want _________ and we're are going to kick and scream everyone for WHAT THE FUCK EVER, until we get it.

Sorry, I will NOT discredit, I will not dishonor that suffering, that you have posted here by equating it with the other kind of bullshit that is going on.

[Control-Z]

97. BS

A lot of us have had or are having hard times. But we don't treat people like shit the way you do.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

98. Plus ten to the power.

[liberal_at_heart]

113. well said!

It is those who are hurt the most by some of his centrist policies that tend to speak out the most and rightly so.

[patrice]

132. It's not about hatred. It's about what likely works v. what likely does NOT & THAT has to do with

the very issues people are propounding as a basis for what looks very much like Obama-hate and which, though you may know that it isn't about hate, you don't necessarily know that all of those who claim synchronicity with you are so driven by higher motives, so some of us are asking ourselves if some of what calls itself "the Left" ought not, in the name of their own best motives, be examining EXACTLY who is throwing in with you in very concrete terms.

I've seen emo-impressed people around the emo prog movement HURT, used and kicked aside, on purpose. Pretending like that is not possible, especially on the internet, works against success on your own issues, which I suppose is your right if you insist, but it ALSO hurts a LOT of other people, who actually are committing themselves honestly and OPENLY to OTHERS in order to try to discover how to make things better for all of us.

That's NOT theory. That's fact. I know some people whose lives ARE about the very thing I describe and they are NOT emo progs.

[CheapShotArtist]

85. Some of them have been real outta' pocket with their criticism.

I came across one who mentioned SS on a totally unrelated thread about Obama's recent vacation. It's not even like SS or Medicare have been cut so wtf? At least wait and see what happens before mouthing off and saying "I want my vote back!"

[NashvilleLefty]

86. Trolls.

[Le Taz Hot]

88. Another Hit and Run?

Seems to be a trend tonight:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022080130

[Hekate]

115. Thanks for this Vietnameravet. It's not the criticism, it's the vile HATRED

And the trolls.

Back in the day, we at DU used to think we were a relevant voice, and some boasted about how certain journalists and politicians surely must be reading our ever-so-thoughtful and intelligent posts on this board. It seemed not only possible but probable!

Now not so much, now that the trolls have taken over. DU will find itself pretty much irrelevant as a source of Democratic ideas if every person who drops by has to wade through a cesspool of Obama-hate and Big Dog-hate and Gore-hate in an attempt to find some small nugget of gold. Does anybody think Rachel bothers, just to name one?

Screw the charges of "You want us all to be in lockstep, you want us to worship Obama." I repeat: it's not the criticism, it's the hatred. It serves no one at all but the GOP, because it drives people away and discourages them from even bothering to vote.

[freshwest]

135. +1

[Resonance_Chamber]

117. The voting choice America had this last election was

A Likeable Moderate Republican and Unlikeable Moderate Republican.

The Likeable Moderate Republican won.

If Romney was more likeable he would have won.

People stayed home in 10 because they thought they elected a Democrat not a Moderate Republican.

I put lower voter turnout in 10 on Obama and his polices and behavior.

The Democratic Party is at a crossroads too, is the Democratic Party the Party of Corporations or People?

[Solly Mack]

120. Fart noises.

[datasuspect]

134. diahrrea

[Solly Mack]

136. ...

[kentuck]

121. Does the President deserve any criticism?

In my opinion, he does. But that does not mean that I hate him or do not prefer him over any Republican.

I don't think he has done a very good job negotiating with Boehner and the Repubs. I do not appreciate him putting Social Security on the table for negotiating. I do not appreciate him turning to tax cuts as the solution to all our economic problems. I think he has been very weak at communicating his position on the so - called "fiscal cliff". I could go on and on.

However, I do not hate the President - I voted for him twice. But I want him to act and talk like a Democrat because we need it and the country needs it.

[Autumn]

123. A few trolls. A lot of fed up Democrats.

This right here is the biggest pile of bull shit I have read

"One of the reasons they did is because Democratic voters were not as "enthusiastic" as the Republicans. They were "demoralized and depressed" because Obama had to engage in compromise and didn't give them everything they wanted the moment they wanted it. Millions of them said; “Boo Hoo! I didnt get my way. I guess I will not vote. Instead I will stay home, feel sorry for myself and take Prozac instead!”
From what I have seen it was the first time voters and Independents.

By the way, Obama has given the fucking pukes cover on several issues.

[Puregonzo1188]

124. The progressives who get upset when Obama is being....well progressive... are the trolls, but those

who uncritically support any policy of his no matter what it may be aren't?

DUer's changed a lot since I first joined.

[patrice]

126. All of the facts don't matter, ONLY feelings, therefore, all "truths" are equally true & what you

don't know doesn't matter, as a mater of fact, the more limited what you know is the more the more significant and we end up with warring balkanized minorities from various dimensions of the political spectrum, paralyzing everything. It becomes a struggle for power for power's sake alone, between those factions. Fascism

And, then, people wonder why others marginalize them.

It's frustrating for those of us who agree on principle, but not on the practice of working to violate the rights of others, because of some assumed privilege for one's self/one's cohort alone.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

133. It is the responsiblity of the citizens of a democracy to hold public servants accountable.

Even if they're Democrats.

[Rex]

142. You got haters and then you got critics.

Haters always gonna hate. Not critics.

[Vietnameravet]

143. Interesting response

I posted this thread some time ago and frankly I did not want to read the responses figuring they would be really nasty.. But i did look at them today and was surprised in a way by two things; One there were really no nasty posts in response and two; its amazing how many responses..in fact the majority.. missed the point entirely..

I thought the point was clear but I guess it was not...so let me repost one line that say it all..Positive suggestions and helpful advice are one thing but “F' the President,” calling him a liar, evil and more is either the work of trolls or Democratic suicide bombers.