General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSince the Atlanta Braves are again using their 'screaming savage' logo, I've created one of my own..
Introducing the Georgia Caucasians, MLB's newest team with a stereotype for a logo!
Story: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/screaming-savage-makes-return-braves-batting-practice-caps-152538767--mlb.html
yellerpup
(12,253 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)I do think the cap the guy is wearing should be a confederate flag cap, though...
lastlib
(23,248 posts)He needs a good assault rifle, too. And a couple pistols on his belt.
Left Coast2020
(2,397 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)believe it or not.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Roy Rolling
(6,918 posts)Maybe if he had a gun? That would be one scary caucasian.
spanone
(135,844 posts)hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Being 1/4 Irish, I am not bothered by THAT.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)And I don't like hats or beer.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Remmah2
(3,291 posts)Please take the dog off.
marble falls
(57,106 posts)'savvy warrior' more likely? If you'all want to use that scrawny little white guy for your team, go for it. Heck, you can use my likeness as a mascott - Nebraska already does: 'Herbie Husker' and the team used to be called the Bug Eaters. Wonder who they offended at that time. Notre Dame has the Irishmen - what's that supposed to conjure? Or the Brewers? How about the Vikings - berserkers, maybe? Or the New York Yankees? Or the Patriots? What do you make of the Toledo Mud Hens? The NAU Lumberjacks, the BSC Young Boys, who actually play at Wankdorf Stadium? Or the Japanese team called the SantaClaus? Do we declare war or what. Yuma City Criminals - when they steal a base, they actually steal the base! Or the Laurel Hill Hoboes - they hit you up for a handout. Or the Hoopston Area Cornjerkers. Get over it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Here, let me spoon feed you:
The re-emergence of the questionable logo is surprising given that the Cleveland Indians have been distancing themselves from Chief Wahoo in recent years. (This year's Indians BP cap features the increasingly familiar block 'C'.) Even the Braves have landed on the right side of sensitivity, replacing an offensive savage patch on the throwback jerseys the team introduced in 2012.
http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/R496mNv54yzz3pVuw6l10Q--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/
marble falls
(57,106 posts)dudgeon people have assumed.
curlyred
(1,879 posts)End of story. I am not sure why that is difficult to understand.
marble falls
(57,106 posts)Have a wonderful new year, bless all of us each and every single one of us all and I hope we can focus this much concern at the voting in two year to give the President the House of Reps he needs to do our business.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)in my family. Dismissing it and turning around to something else is awful. Ask a Native American how they feel about squaw. Then duck fast.
marble falls
(57,106 posts)her dad's grandfather and grandmother (my grandparent's also), she qualified as a tribal member. There's a long list of slurs I will not use. I do appreciate the tone of your post towards me. Thank-you very much. Its refreshing and much needed on this forum.
Racism is something that we need to talk about in this country. I've lived on two reservations, the Winnebago in Nebraska and the Salt River in Arizona. I also worked on the Navaho Reservation in Page Arizona. And a very close friend of mine here in Texas is a Rose Bud Sioux. I think I have standing in the conversation and insight.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)won't ever go.
We have relatives who are Klamath, Walla Walla, Eskimo and Cherokee. There are others but the fam lives to be 100+ and I forgot. Mom and dad lived on the Hoopah reservation back in the day when it was the wild west out there. The stories were hilarious. Wild pigs running around, mice nests landing on your head in the house.
Tone is everything here but some forget unfortunately. Hugs and a great new year, my friend.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)If that's fair game, wouldn't it be proper to add "murderous" to Patriots?
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)being a mascot is fucked. Using human beings as mascots is fucked.
Heywood J
(2,515 posts)Iggo
(47,558 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)I'd say they have standing to complain. And that's what they are doing. I wouldn't call their objections "high dudgeon" and to do so is insensitive in the extreme.
BarackTheVote
(938 posts)when one puts a non-capitalized phrase inside quotation marks like that, it generally means the author is either using a colloquialism or is coining a phrase for ironic purposes that they want to make clear to the reader represents a view the author doesn't personally hold. In either case, the "screaming savage" doesn't look like a proper name to me, and the way it's written certainly doesn't make me think that's the OFFICIAL name. In any case, the logo's not even a caricature.
MADem
(135,425 posts)offensive. It is the "known name" of that particular logo.
Even Fauxsnooze is covering this story: http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/20437414/report-braves-to-bring-back-screaming-savage-logo
Report: Braves to bring back 'Screaming Savage' logo on hats
dflprincess
(28,079 posts)body were Irish or of Irish descent. Irish gave themselves that nickname.
I will guarantee you that, if the Swedish Institute or the Sons of Norway serously objected to the the "Vikings" nickname it would get changed faster than you can say it. Several years ago the state lottery was running a TV commercial with someone using a fractured Scandinavian accent and some group of Scandinavians objected and the ad was immediately taken off the air.
fishwax
(29,149 posts)I suppose the Fighting Irish (not Irishmen) comes closest. There are a variety of stories as to how that nickname was chosen, but most involve some degree of agency among people with Irish backgrounds associated with the team and/or university (either as players or as administrators). If someone who was Irish happened to be offended at the fighting leprechaun logo, I certainly wouldn't mock them for it. The Vikings is also, perhaps, close, but that name was chosen to reflect the state's status as a center for Scandinavian culture in the United States (and has been overwhelmingly embraced, afaik, by the community there). None of the other examples make any remote sense as analogies to the Braves moniker, let alone the racist stereotype they've decided to bring back into action as a logo.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)And, isn't is Yuma High, formerly Yuma Union High? And, do you know why Yuma adopted the name "Criminals"?
Panasonic
(2,921 posts)The teeth are too good. Needs to be misshapen and face more pockmarked.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)It was a well-deserved "backatcha" for years of native peoples' mockery.
University of Northern Colorado
Fighting Whities intramural
basketball team
Read all about 'em: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Whites
Why don't they just change the name to the "Atlanta Bravehearts" and paint their faces blue and play the game in kilts? I think it would increase their gate take enormously!
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)byeya
(2,842 posts)The Braves after New York's Tammany Hall whose members often referred to themselves as "braves". From that, the American Indian logo evolved and became offensive and should be stricken.
Similarly, the Cleveland Indians, after being the Cleveland Naps, after their player/manager Napolean Lajoie was named The Indians after one particular Indian, Lou Sockalexis, a very popular Cleveland player who was a Penobscot Indian. From this, the horrid Chief Wahoo evolved which, I think, should also be banned.
lillypaddle
(9,580 posts)but we can stereotype Georgians?
MADem
(135,425 posts)The idea behind the image is to taunt those white people who are being obtuse so they feel objectified and insulted, and perhaps can relate to the level of offense native people experience when they see that insulting logo.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)lillypaddle
(9,580 posts)I'm NOT for stereotyping anybody. I'm all for a new mascot for Atlanta. I just don't think it's helpful to stereotype everyone from Georgia or the south as a dumb hick.
marble falls
(57,106 posts)XemaSab
(60,212 posts)and he could represent half the white people in Northern California.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)XemaSab
(60,212 posts)on a guy who's never been further south than Bakersfield and further east than Reno?
benld74
(9,904 posts)Peaceful Protester
(280 posts)Insensitive like 'the New England Patriots'?
Not so much. But, if the New England Patriots had lost their country/freedoms/resources to the King in the Revolutionary War, had continued to remain British Subjects throughout the years and had continued to pay taxes to the King/Monarch/British Empire while also paying Federal and State taxes. Well, then some people might be a bit sensitive about that.
(Read More from another perspective: Indian Country Today)
[br]
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)I think General Sherman had the right idea about Atlanta.
cordelia
(2,174 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)But he grew up and now he catches for the Giants.
cordelia
(2,174 posts)dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)Posey is indeed a class act, and a personal favorite.
Hey, anyone else remember seeing Jane Fonda having to bite her teeth and do the Braves' ridiculous tomahawk chop standing next to Ted Turner? I felt so sorry for her.
marble falls
(57,106 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)But see, that's a point of pride, there--what's "insulting" about overcoming from a wheelchair and honoring a role model while so doing?
You're either not getting--or deliberately not taking--the point being made, here... not sure why, but it's odd.
marble falls
(57,106 posts)Atlanta Braves are marketing to catch the niche of anti-native American bigots????????????? My point is that no racial/cultural/gender/national/religous slur was meant, any outrage is assumed. When I see a racist mascot, I will scream bloody blue murder.
In the meantime two wars and a third brewing, a coming prison/plantation slave system exploiting mainly an African/American population, a regressive tax system, manipulated markets and banking system, more families evicted from homes over the gaming of the system by profiteers who are free and largely running up to some other scam, billions of dollars in corporate welfare and tax breaks ........................
MADem
(135,425 posts)No one is suggesting that the Atlanta Braves are "marketing to catch a niche"--what people are saying is that they are using "tradition" as an excuse to indulge in bigotry, and people are NOTICING it.
It doesn't matter if the offense was "meant"--if it offends people, and they say so, repeatedly, vocally, with demonstrations and newspaper articles and appearances on television, the smart money says "Cut that shit out."
This is a tone deaf expression by Atlanta. It was stupid, and it was wrong. It's also going over like a lead balloon:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1459187-breaking-down-new-atlanta-braves-screaming-savage-2013-practice-caps
Maybe somebody in the team's marketing department incorrectly surmised that the city of Atlanta loves stereotypical depictions of entire races of people.
Perhaps ownership was sick and tired of the Washington Redskins and their culturally insensitive name remaining the most offensive rendition of Native American culture in this country.
Why did the Braves screw this up so badly?...It's not hard to do these caps right. The Braves not only didn't get that memo, but they also went ahead and created the "There is a demand for our old racist logo" memo that otherwise would have never existed.
All of the stuff you listed, like a litany of the saints, in your second paragraph in an effort to justify an endorsement of bigotry (the old "these things are worse" ploy) has absolutely NOTHING to do with this issue. Stop trying to marry them--they aren't even dating.
marble falls
(57,106 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)marble falls
(57,106 posts)the Braves have put on record seems racist in any sort of way, your reading into it not withstanding. Have a nice life. I'm done with this and your efforts to turn this into personal insult. Please feel free to prattle on.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If that doesn't "seem racist" to you, you don't understand the meaning of the term.
This isn't about you and your false claims of "personal insult," this is about a racist insult perpetuated by a major league baseball team that anyone who is sentient can appreciate--like every major sports writer in the country, who have taken the time to weigh in on this is and call it everything from stupid to profoundly moronic.
Open your eyes, do a little reading. Educate yourself -- the one doing all the offensive "prattling" is the fellow in your own mirror.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Because I see a group of people that skews whiter than the Republican congressional delegation whooping and waving foam tomahawks like Indians in an especially bad fifties western, and I'm not sure how anybody could think that's not racist.
Gemini Cat
(2,820 posts)Scratch painfully and insert willfully obtuse.
MADem
(135,425 posts)All they needed to round this spectacle out was a soundtrack of "Pow Wow, the Indian Boy."
Published on Sep 25, 2012
9/22/2012, nearby Eire Pub in Boston, at a rally for Scott Brown including former Mayor Ray Flynn. Some supporters of Elizabeth Warren were also gathered around with signs. Here you can see Brown's staffers making "war whoops" and "tomahawk chops", presumably in reference to Warren's Cherokee heritage. Identified in video making the chop are Brown's Constituent Service Counsel Jack Richard (camoflage shirt) and -- we believe -- Massachusetts GOP operative Brad Garrett, front and center with tan baseball cap and gray hoodie, leading the whoops and chops.
This kind of stuff helped to fix Scottie's little "red" wagon but good--the people of the Commonwealth understand racism when they see it, even if some fellows here seem incapable of appreciating precisely what it is.
Fla Dem
(23,691 posts)auburngrad82
(5,029 posts)When they got the Braves franchise from Milwaukee the Crackers disappeared. I grew up in Georgia and having listened/watched the Braves all those years when they sucked wind.
In light of the political atmosphere in Georgia these days, I say we start a movement to have the name changed from the Braves to the Crackers.
One thing, though. I'd change the beer from Coors to Bud. Georgia's a little behind the eight ball on newfangled things like beer. If it ain't Bud or Bud Light it probably won't sell.
marble falls
(57,106 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)I heard that the NY Mets were going to change their name to the NY Metz.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Usually at what the Braves were putting on the field.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)instead.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)And someone on DU usually trots out one Native American who approves of it, and that's supposed to make everything okay....
MADem
(135,425 posts)They got rid of it several years back owing to the insensitivity of the image. Now, for reasons entirely unclear, they've brought the thing back from the dead!
The prevailing media reaction is "Why did they put their collective head up their collective ass in this fashion? Are they operating under the 'any publicity is good publicity' maxim?"