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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsConcealed carry holder shoots man over slow pizza complaints
Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:49 PM - Edit history (2)
Sorry if this is old news, I can't search. It's too good not to post, however. Think if other people had been armed here. Bonus Stand Your Ground lunacy, too!
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1266589.ece
Man shot at St. Pete pizza joint had been complaining about slow service
By Kameel Stanley and Stephen Nohlgren, Times Staff Writers
ST. PETERSBURG Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law has been cited in hundreds of cases. People have used it to justify shooting, stabbing, killing and maiming would-be intruders, romantic competitors and rival gang members.
And on Sunday, at a pizza joint in St. Petersburg, a man tried to use it as justification for shooting another customer who was yelling at workers because he wasn't getting his order fast enough.
Aristus
(66,469 posts)It's such a joy to see how well guns solve irritating little inconveniences...
TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)jpak
(41,760 posts)Let them step up and tell us once again why SYG is needed in FL or anyplace else.
yup
Recursion
(56,582 posts)something tells me he'll have a hard time persuading a jury it was.
jpak
(41,760 posts)....a "law abiding" CCW holder.
SYG is the reason it happened.
Gun play apology fail.
yup
Recursion
(56,582 posts)They further muddy already muddy situations. Here's hoping the guy goes to jail and loses his CCW license.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)BayouBengal07
(1,486 posts)If you can find justification in either SYG or concealed carry laws to shoot someone over a raised fist/shoving, I'm all ears. I believe, in any event, you're supposed to attempt to flee before "standing your ground," anyway.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)No, what it did is remove the duty to retreat.
Though for that matter I don't know what the implications of SYG are in non-fatal situations like this.
I just thought the headline was kind of dishonest: he didn't shoot him for complaining about the service, he shot him when he assaulted him (if the story is accurate).
BayouBengal07
(1,486 posts)I can see what you mean about the distinction between the initial argument and the escalation. Point taken.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)He had no quarrel with the person he shot, he started one.
Now where have I heard this story before?
unblock
(52,352 posts)it appears that the shooter deliberately put himself in a position where a reasonable person might feel threatened (he accosted another patron and was yelling at him and was apparently in his face). when the victim took physical but clearly non-life threatening action, the shooter pounced on the presumed opportunity to attempt a legal homicide under his own armchair legal analysis.
is the world really a better place if people this concealed lethal weapons go around sticking their faces right up in other peoples' faces and essentially shouting "TOUCH ME AND YOU DIE!! TOUCH ME AND YOU DIE!!"
i could be wrong but i don't think that's what "stand your ground" is meant to be all about.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)And yet another relevant qualifier would be, ""We determined it did not reach a level where deadly force was required." Whether you meant that or not...
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts).
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JVS
(61,935 posts)Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)JVS
(61,935 posts)you should expect it. And as the nopity icon suggests, I'm not going to feel sorry for you.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)What the fuck is wrong with you? That is the goddamn dumbest thing I have EVER read.
JVS
(61,935 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Looks to me like the victim was arguing with the establishment about service. The shooter, feeling brave because he knows he has a gun and the SYG law behind him, decided to straighten this guy out and started an argument with him. The shooter started an argument with someone that he knew was already in a bad mood.
What I hear you saying is that the victim deserved it.
The SYG laws encourage cowards to bully.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Orrex
(63,228 posts)Used in this way, wherein the concerned citizen incites an argument knowing that he has his CCL to back him up, would likely qualify as 2nd or 3rd degree murder (at least) if he killed the victim & the SYG defense fell through.
It's an idiotic law and should be eliminated.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,385 posts)... then you'll be sorry. Gentlemen, we can't have fighting here - this is DU.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)A gunslingers, testosterone driven insanity. You should never have the expectation of getting shot. Period.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)If you think people who get into arguments should expect to be shot you are the last person who I would want owning a gun. People with your kind of attitude are the reason we need gun control badly.
Piazza Riforma
(94 posts)First: Shooter could have not involved himself in the patron-restaurant dispute. I believe the term for that is "Mind his own business".
Second: I pity the idea that the shooter and people who agree with his nuttery are such wimps that they have to respond to a shove with a gun.
JVS
(61,935 posts)indicates that one has become obnoxious beyond even the fairly lenient standards that pass for decent behavior. At some point being an asshole effects everyone in the store and not just the workers of the store, who probably deal with more than enough shit already.
Point two: I kind of see the point here, but on the other hand I see no reason why someone who is having a dispute with another should be expected to tolerate a physical altercation. How much of a beating do you believe you should have to tolerate for confronting someone who is behaving like a jerk?
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)And since the police don't seem to believe the guy shot was the instigator, what makes you believe that? Oh, right...your undying love of guns and how wonderful they are.
JVS
(61,935 posts)response was disproportionate. I'll have to defer to their judgement because they talked to the witnesses.
Have fun with the mind-reading though.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)So that would indicate that the police don't believe he was the instigator. No mind-reading necessary. Just....um....reading.
callous taoboy
(4,590 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Suggesting that the shooter only confronted the victim when he got to a point of annoying the other customers? You dont know that. Even if he was annoying the rest of the establishment, that is not a reason to confront him. Confronting him will only escalate the problem. Call the police.
"How much of a beating do you believe you should blah blah blah". That's absurd. I can see a person that might try to calm someone down that is obviously upset. If they dont appreciate it and want to fight, THEN YOU FUCKIN LEAVE. You dont pull out a gun and shoot. SYG laws give courage to cowards.
Piazza Riforma
(94 posts)gone outside and called the police if the guy was becoming that belligerent?
AlexSatan
(535 posts)Great policy.
http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/1986_267429/neighbors-ignore-rape-victim-s-screams.html
I assume the "mind your own business" also should apply to those who want to keep law-abiding citizens from legally carrying guns?
So yelling about late pizza is like rape?
The Delicate Flowers are bending over backwards to justify their Precious-Worship.
Not that they don't do that on 24x7....
Piazza Riforma
(94 posts)Are you really sick enough to compare someone who ignores a rape with someone staying out of a shouting match over a pizza?
AlexSatan
(535 posts)"Mind your own business" is "mind your own business". Either it is a good policy or it isn't.
Obviously the guy handled it poorly and overreacted but I think it was right for someone to stand up to the bully since the employees were not able/allowed to.
One of the problems in our society is people minding their own business when someone else is being picked on.
callous taoboy
(4,590 posts)ride edowntown should it escalate, nobody gets to use his precious gun. Get it? We're trying to have a civalization here, not Tombstone circa 1850.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)The second guy shouldn't have said a damn thing, the first customer's complaint was with the restaurant, not with him.
But he felt emboldened to say something, instead of minding his own damn business.
I wonder why that was....
callous taoboy
(4,590 posts)I'd wager you're spot on, Ikonoklast.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)They hope that someday, they'll get a chance to legally shoot someone.
rustydog
(9,186 posts)He turned what would have been a simple fistfight into a deadly weapon assault for no reason other than he is a coward and needa a firearm for bravery.
bongbong
(5,436 posts)Remember that to Delicate Flowers, their Precious is the difference between cowering under the bed all day long, and going out in public.
If he didn't have his Precious, he wouldn't have been in the restaurant. He would've had to order delivery, and in that case, the delivery person would have been in grave danger.
"Hey, this pizza is cold!" BANG.
rustydog
(9,186 posts)who has a history of extreme violent outbursts...the text: With wife and kids in restaurant, **** ***** is 3 tables down!!!! glad I'm packing!
Fucking idiot.
bongbong
(5,436 posts)In their fantasies, they stand up, everybody else dives for the floor, the shooter stand there dumbly, and they calmly shoot the miscreant thru the eyes.
In reality, they empty their clip/magazine/whatever in a blind panic, wound or kill innocent bystanders, and have excrement-filled pants.
aquart
(69,014 posts)thelordofhell
(4,569 posts)Speck Tater
(10,618 posts)by shooting BOTH of the customers right between the eyes.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)guy with the loud music. Without the gun I think neither guy would have instigated the incident. SYG should not apply if you start the hassle.
GreenPartyVoter
(72,381 posts)Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Most of what is allowed nowadays would make them shake their heads in wonder at just how stupid we are.
GreenPartyVoter
(72,381 posts)seem to revere our history. Maybe it would work?
KansDem
(28,498 posts)"Shootout at the O.K. Pizzeria."
Ganja Ninja
(15,953 posts)Shoot me now!
Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)That, by the way, is the last thing you should ever do if you have a gun on you: Pick more fights because you have a gun to "back you up".
Doesn't have to be a gun, either. I knew a guy many, many years ago who used to regularly pull the same thing because he was a skilled practitioner of Brazilian jiu-jitsu. He was almost at the level where he could teach it and he used to brag about how he'd intentionally make himself part of an otherwise unrelated altercation just so he could (potentially) show off his skills. Eventually he did it and found himself staring down the barrel of some guy's pistol.
This nutball in the story "won". He got to play the sheriff in town and shoot the guy- who I'm really glad lived. Now Big Man In The Pizza Bar is not so big.
Frightening.
PB
Sancho
(9,070 posts)It's crazy down here...
ReRe
(10,597 posts)...oops...I mean what is the world is going on in America?
liberal N proud
(60,346 posts)There is no place that is safe with Concealed Carry!
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)That's an expensive 5 dollar pizza
Agitated morons running around with loaded weapons. What could go wrong?
Rex
(65,616 posts)Shot over a pizza...how fucking pathetic.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)What can you say but "WOW" to this attempt at herd-thinning?
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)That stuff is pure crappy junk.