On 9/11 we lost a bit over 3,000 people in 2009 we lost 10,224 due to gun murder

[dsc]

One changed the world, the other, changed nothing. Flying used to be a fairly easy thing to do. You could show up at about the last minute, check luggage, walk through a metal detector, have your family see you off, and fly away. Now you need id, you need a paid ticket to get to the place people fly from, you have to get a full body scan, and the line takes forever. You can't ship money without telling the government anymore, thanks to 9/11. Our phones are much more easily tapped, thanks to 9/11. You can't take nail clippers on a plane, thanks to 9/11. In many ways, big and small, life has changed thanks to 9/11. In response to the over 3 times as many people who died in 2009, we can carry guns in federal parks. Incidentally, with all the changes that happened thanks to 9/11, including a no fly list, we saw no change in gun laws. You can be on the no fly list, ie so unsafe you can't be on a plane, but still get a gun. I think we over reacted to 9/11 but I also think we way under react to shooting carnage.

[Fresh_Start]

1. I pretty much am disgusted with those who can't understand that their 2nd amendment

rights just isn't as important as protecting the really innocent.
I don't consider lawful gun owners as the truly innocent in this.
They are part of the horrid political environment which prevents any reasonable gun control.

If you think your 2nd amendment rights shouldn't be abridged in any possible way,
why should society do anything about any social problem?
Controls on pollution or global warming or replacing science with intelligent design, impinge on other peoples perceived rights as well.

[Daniel537]

2. The vast majority of gun owners never committ crimes with their weapons.

So yes, they are innocent in this because most of them follow the law just as they are required to.

[Fresh_Start]

7. yeah, so what difference does that make.

The vast majority of people driving SUVs don't commit crimes either.
But the totality of the SUVs etc is still destroying the environment.

[RomneyLies]

9. Nearly everybody who gets on a plane is just going from point A to point B

Just 19 assholes who didn't get on a plane for that reason altered forever how everybody else has to approach getting on a plane.

It's time gun owners accept the fact that regulations are going to be changed. This is the tipping point. This far and no further.

It is time to truly apply the terms "well regulated" and require EVERY gun owner go through an annual psych exam in order to continue owning guns.

[november3rd]

3. 30 people a day?

is that actually the average (roughly) of civilians killed by gun violence every day in the US?

Thirty people a day are killed by gun violence in the US?

Where's that info from?

[dsc]

4. Senator Lautenburg and Politifact

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politifact-us-has-more-gun-deaths-than-other-large-countries/1145669

The FBI's Uniform Crime Reports for 2009 list 10,224 homicides that involved a gun. So by this count, Lautenberg's number was a little low.

[DanTex]

5. That is correct.

The average American lifespan is shortened by 100 days. For black males, the loss of life expectancy from guns is a full year. No other first-world nation comes anywhere close. The statistics are staggering.

[GCP]

11. You're surprised? Or is this just grand-standing?

Of course the figure is fucking correct. Don't you read anything other than NRA propaganda?

[november3rd]

15. EZ, GCP, brother. No need to curse.

I never read anything by the NRA and don't use or own any firearms.

I'm against hate speech, too--all violence.

We're all sowers of seeds.

What varieties and where we sow them are up to us.

But we will sow.

Each of us.

We sow.

Now.

[Harmony Blue]

6. The oft cited statistic that gun murders may be down

but gun massacres are way up. Unfortunately I don't see the trend of gun massacres stopping anytime soon and has no correlation with the decreasing murders from guns.

[dmallind]

10. Honest question - are they really? I can't find stats on multiple-victim murders by weapon. nt

[progressoid]

12. All murders are down but the percentage commited by firearms stays pretty constant.

According to the FBI, approx 67% are from firearms.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls

[dmallind]

8. And over 400,000 due to smoking

A legal product that kills even when used as intended with reasonable caution.

Why start in the middle if deaths are your real concern? Wouldn't the #1 killer be a higher priority?

Is it really about the deaths?

[Fresh_Start]

13. The smoker is choosing to smoke

the children didn't chose to be targets.
But if you want to say that the same flawed thought process of protecting evil in the guise of defending rights is common between smoking and guns, I agree with you. Both those who defend tobacco and those who defend guns should die quickly by that which they are so eagerly defending.

[dsc]

14. and think of all the changes in regards to smoking

that have occurred. Even NC bans smoking in any public place unless the smoking area is completely seperated from the non smoking area. You can't smoke on planes, buses, trains, in many hotel rooms. You can't smoke in most eateries. You can't get cigarettes from vending machines. All of those changes have taken place since the 1980's.