FUCK THE NRA.

[Itchinjim]

The blood of these children is also on their hands. FUCK THE NRA!

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. ...and their enablers.

You know who you are.

[tblue]

120. Yup. Negligent Rifle-owner Association

Fuckemall!

[SageofDetroit]

151. I have the solution to the violence.

Make guns cost $40, 000...the cost of a new car or house.

[Barkoff]

217. Guns not the problem.

You know friend, guns have been around for a long time, mass shooting is relatively new. As uncomfortable as it is, may be you should stop taking the easy way out. For a change why not asking what is going wrong with society that is producing the lack of value for life we see today? Eliminating guns is NOT the root of the problems we are facing.

Maybe it is time we explore putting the rights of the mentally ill on the same level of a healthy society, maybe ACLU got it wrong when they fought for the mentally ill not to have treatment forced upon them.

[vkkv]

225. Mass shootings are to to the newer, faster, more deadly weapons! duh !

Mass shootings are to to the newer, faster, more deadly weapons! duh !

Got brain?

[Barkoff]

229. Got a brain?

Congrats, you are my first personal insult, carry it proud.

So then a Winchester lever action 10 shot is not fast enough to shoot ten times? Four six shot pistols is not quick enough to shoot 24 UNARMED people? Look, if you aren't going to acknowledge that we have a problem with mental illness and how to treat them, go ahead and blame the boogey man NRA, it is cheap, but it is your right to do so. If you aren't going to see a problem with kids be shot for a pair of sneakers, but would rather used the tool used, that is shallow thinking. We have devalued life in this country, not sure how, but it is obvious. People kill each other for the smallest of reasons, that is the root of the problem.

The problem is that we have taken away society's ability to deal with the mentally ill. If you can't see a huge influx in mental illness in this country you are not being open.

The only way in this country we had to force treatment on the mentally ill was jailing for drugs which almost always goes together. But now with the movement to legalize drugs, we will also lose the same leverage I used on my own daughter.

[compintheusa]

232. And maybe it's time to limit media exposure....

The media thrives on these events, and with each act more horrific than the last, I can only wonder how many others are out there right now thinking that if they're going to go out, why not go out in a blaze of media glory!

The media is more responsible for these acts of violence than anyone else. With limited media exposure, these tragedies will subside.

[Barkoff]

218. Me

Ya, that would be me.

I am as angry over this shooting as you are, but I don't misplace my anger and frustration. You are for the confiscation of all guns? Take away all means of self protection? You must be a young person who still feels invincible, but who are you to deny anyone, a single woman, the elderly, gays, the right to protect themselves from those who wish them harm? Be it a thug out to supply his drug habit, an ex-husband or boyfriend, a homophobic gay basher. You would rather they face down their threats by means of only their own strength? Tell me please that you don't believe the police will be their for you? They will show up to fill out the report.

[thebard77]

222. That is why the 2nd amendment will never be repealed

The assault weapons ban will be renewed and guns will be made more difficult to aquire. That is all that will happen.

[compintheusa]

234. The problem is....

What, exactly is an "assault weapon"? And what did so called assault weapons have to do with this tragedy? You see when politicians get involved we'll probably end up having toaster ovens banned. And is it even possible to make good law when responding to tragedy?

The 2nd Amendment to our constitution is not about duck hunting. It's about citizens having both the will and the means to overthrow a corrupt government, which is exactly how our country came into being. Don't think it can happen again? History tells a different story.

[SomethingFishy]

236. LOL.. if you think the citizens of this country have any chance of

"overthrowing" the government you live in a fantasy world. Maybe 100 years ago, but in this day and age with the might of the military and their technology your little fantasy about overthrowing the government is a joke.

Also your comment about "toaster ovens" is cute but pointless. We already have "gun control" you aren't allowed to own a tank or a nuke, or an anti-aircraft missile, people are just talking about where the line should be drawn. And that's the problem with people like you, you make no reasonable argument for not moving the line. All your arguments are based on fantasy.

[Barkoff]

238. You do realize?

You do realize though the a Colt 1911 is called a 1911 because it was produced in 1911? From 1911 on we had no mass shootings in schools. Just as you accuse this poster of being not based in reality, you choose to ignore the real problem and seek to outlaw that which has been in the hands of citizens since 1911. Today's Colt 1911 is virtually exact copy to the handgun people have had access to for decades, and we had nobody walking into schools killing five year old kids.

[SomethingFishy]

270. What the fuck are you babbling about?

I'm talking about people who think they can "overthrow" the government with the little armory they have in the basement and you are giving me a history lesson on the 1911 Colt?

Do you think you have the ability to face down the US Military? Really? Good fucking luck with that.

[TheCowsCameHome]

253. Hey, did you get TS'ed recently? Gee, what a shame.

[forestpath]

2. Fuck the NRA and all its enablers.

[Chorophyll]

3. FUCK THE NRA

And anyone who comes near me whining about their precious rights to arm their shitty little houses against imaginary intruders.

This shooting has broken me.

[forestpath]

4. +1 times a zillion!

[Plucketeer]

38. Several Zillion nt

[dangerdoll]

115. me, too.

[tiny elvis]

154. 'make my day' syndrome

do you feel lucky, punk?

[Barkoff]

233. Imaginary?

It is only imaginary until it happens to you. I guess all the murder and rape stats are just lies?

Let me ask you this, when you consider all the muggings, rapes, murders, home invasions in this country everyday, what percent of those victims figured that today was going to be their day? You are so brave until it is YOU who is being victimized, but until then you will rail on how crime is not a threat to you, it is the police who are tasked with your protection, and all the victims out there should have ....what? You my friend shall lose your naivete should it be your number on a given day.

[OrwellwasRight]

243. Home invasions are very rare.

And I don't understand your comment about rape. Rapes generally don't happen at the point of a gun. In most rapes, the assailant is known to the victim. It has nothing to do with bravery. Guns just aren't needed to solve these things you fear.

[Barkoff]

245. Broaden your horizons.

You have only learned to think within a narrow margin of "guns are evil" I was referring to woman protecting themselves from would-be rapist. Are you in disagreement that rape is a problem?

With due respect, you repeat statistics that you have been spoon fed. Yes, home invasions are rare, but not as rare as school shootings. If guns are not needed to solve the things I fear, how do explain victims of crimes? You have been fed anti-gun propaganda and have not chose to hear the other side of the argument or give it consideration. This idea that you are in no risk of becoming a victim is just wishful thinking. Nobody believes when they wake up in the morning that today is the day to be a victim...NOBODY.

Again, talk to these people instead of pigeon-holing every gun owner and a paranoid red-neck gun lover.

http://www.meetup.com/San-Jose-Pink-Pistols/

[Barkoff]

250. A little research.

Don't take anyone's word when forming an opinion, do the research for yourself, google for instance "woman kills home intruder" or home invasion. Then ask yourself why you would choose to deny these woman the means to protect themselves because of 1% of the people who turn criminal and commit crimes usually starting out with stealing a gun. Do you think any of these woman woke up that morning and believed crime would find them?

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/tulsa-woman-shoots-home-invader-prevents-rape--possible-murder-are-woman-who-own-guns-more-likely/question-3380321/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/alabama-woman-shoots-home-intruder-to-protect-herself-and-her-ax-and-knife-wielding-daughters/

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Homeowner-Shoots-Intruders-Police-174633151.html

[OrwellwasRight]

255. With no respect, quit insulting people you have have no idea about.

Not only is it rude, it undermines your argument. Did you simply cut and paste your response from someone else and post it as a response to me? Because it seems to have very little to do with my post to you.

I have not been spoon fed anything, it did not cite any statistics, and I never said "guns are evil." The NRA is, and that is what this thread is about.

Given that most rapists are known to the victim, it is very unlikely that a woman is going to shoot her rapist, especially if it is her husband, father, brother or boyfriend. And as for date rape, the other common type of rape when the attacker is known, it would be very unlikely that a woman being raped in that scenario would be able to reach for a gun unless of course she stored it in her vagina. It's a stupid and unrealistic argument, typical of someone who thinks that all problems can be solved with guns.

Unlike you, I have been on DU for 7 years. I have engaged in numerous discussions about guns, gun violence, and gun control. You have no idea what arguments I have considered, accepted, and rejected. You make assumptions simply because I say the average person is not under threat from violent crime and that having a gun would provide little protection. I never said anyone was at "no risk." I just happen to know what those risks are. And I consider those risks thoughtfully and logically, rather than panicking, living in fear, and deciding that guns will solve everything.

It is people like you, who fail to read what people actually say, and start putting words in other people's mouths, that give "gun nuts" such a bad name. Perhaps if more pro-gunners were calm and polite like my father was, they might be a little more persuasive. But just insulting people by telling them how much propaganda they have been spoon fed will not get you very far here on DU or in life.

Consider this: which large lobbying organization actually has the money to "spoon feed" its followers propaganda?

The Brady Campaign (nearly bankrupt):
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00113449

Or the NRA:
http://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/detail.php?cmte=National+Rifle+Assn&cycle=2012

Based on this, I would say that one side is spewing propaganda, and on the other side, people are using their brains to decide for themselves.

Perhaps YOU should broaden YOUR horizons.

[Chorophyll]

269. I've been alive for 47 years, in and around NYC.

Never needed a gun, "my friend." Now go back to whatever paranoid hole you just crawled out of.

[GDtheRats]

266. Amen!

Well said.

PS: to all you soulless, pompous self-appointed lecturers (like Barkoff), "Fuck off. You don't belong here. You are fowling our air."

[liberalhistorian]

5. May this day be known as

"the day the NRA died."

[Care Acutely]

7. + 1000

[A Simple Game]

42. This incident may not be the tipping point, but it is coming, the sooner the better. n/t

[2naSalit]

44. I hope so!

[ReRe]

180. I liiiike it!

I hear a song in that title...

[Barkoff]

246. Probably not.

Not so long as there are still mobs of those who would deny people their right to protect themselves or their families.

[Care Acutely]

6. K & R AND - FUCK YOU NRA ! ! ! ! FUCK you too, to the NRA supporting/ anti-sanity brigade.

Guns are not more important than people. It's time to rectify the mistake that is the 2nd amendment.

[thebard77]

168. It will never happen.

First of all that wouldn't get guns off of the street. It would just make them harder to get. If someone has murder on their minds, they'll find a way. However, even though I do not own a gun, will never own one, find owning a gun to be pathetic... the 2nd amendment will never be repealed. This isn't like the presidential election... there is no electoral college for ratification. You need 38 states to ratify a new amendment and it doesn't matter if most blue states outnumber the red states in population. Wyoming's vote is the same as New York's.

[fasttense]

176. The NRA has practically nothing to do with the 2nd amendment.

It's like saying that if you don't support the National Organization of Women then you don't support the 19th amendment. True both share one thing in common, but the one is NOT controlled or responsible for the other. The NRA merely uses the 2nd amendment as a handy tool to ever increasing profits for weapons and ammunition manufacturers and distributors.

The NRA is nothing more than a lobbying group for weapon and ammunition manufacturers and distributors. The NRA use to provide free training and safety classes for working people but not anymore. They are responsible for the promotion of weapons and ammunitions distribution throughout the US. They wouldn't care if working people could no longer buy guns and ammunition. If their source of money was uninterrupted, guns would be outlawed and they would shrug. They are interested only in continuing their uninterrupted profits. If millions of people, including children, have to die to ensure their continued huge profits, then so be it.

Rubes who believe the NRA is somehow protecting their constitutional rights are quite naive. It's like believing the RepubliCON party is responsible for the free enterprise economic system because they support rich people.

[ReRe]

181. It will never happen?

Ha! (as Tweety says it.) You're eluding yourself. Something's definitely going to happen.
Get ready for it.

[thebard77]

207. If 38 states ratify an amendment to repeal the 2nd

I won't just eat my hat, I will cover it with dog crap first.

[ReRe]

237. I support the abolishment of the NRA & other prominent gun orgs...

...as they strangle our democracy with their filthy money, and promote no regulation of hand held killing machines. Even after this horrible tragedy, you cannot admit that something is rotten in Denmark. You offer nothing. You seem unsympathetic in the face of the meaningless slaughter of 26 innocents yesterday. Do you at least agree that there is a problem that needs to be dealt with to prevent such tragedies that are starting to occur on a weekly basis in this country?

[thebard77]

247. I absolutely agree

I don't own guns and will never own guns. I despise all lobbyists and the NRA is high on the list. However this country is caught between a rock and a hard place. The supreme court is not going to rule that the 2nd amendment does not grant a right to own firearms. The only recourse then is heavy regulation, renewing the assault weapons ban or repealing the 2nd amendment. You and I both know that this isn't a blue vs red state issue. There are more than a few blue states that have a hunting population. Maine, Minnesota, New Hampshire to name 2. Ratification requires a 38 state nod. This isn't the presidential election. California's vote is the same as Wyoming. I hope the assault weapon ban is renewed and I hope guns are made more difficult to aquire. They aren't going away though and no amount of hope and pray will change this sad fact. There is a huge black market for weapon sales. We have two coasts, 2 gigantic borders and one neighbor who have a criminal culture which trades in human life on a daily basis. At the end of the day this is far more about the perpetuation of a culture of violence. The value of human life in this country is low; guns just provide an easy means to commit murder. Yes, they are a problem. Yes, the NRA is a fucking scum bag organization. Banning lobbyists would be fantastic. Getting the money out of Washington would be a huge step forward... On BOTH Sides. However, legislation will not solve our culture of violence. NO, that needs to begin in the homes and in the schools. Unfortunately, we have far too many assholes who have no business raising children bringing up demon spawn. We have men outside the home with little to no interaction with their children. We have schools with teachers who shouldn't be there. So yes, my heart was broken yesterday. I cried while watching the president tear up. We need a cultural wake up and guns are just one part of that equation.

[Barkoff]

248. Absolutly

But your methods of dealing are misguided. Their is plenty of filthy money that goes around on all sides, but that is irrelevant to the argument on whether or not you deny 99% the right to defend themselves because of the actions of the 1%. Your answer is to place limitations on the 99% and not address the 1%. Nobody on this thread has asked what we can do to identify the mentally ill, and force upon them the treatment that they reject? Nope, going after guns is a much easier target, so much simpler that admitting that we have a societal rot problem.

[ReRe]

256. You're right, you won't find that on this thread....

...This thread is devoted to the discussion of the abolishment of the NRA, or at least some meaningful regulations that can deter what has happened in CT yesterday, and seems to be happening on a weekly basis now. I just posted a reply on a thread that was discussing what was up with the gunman, psychologically.

Yes, the mental health of this country is nothing if not downright dangerous. People are slipping through the cracks. They aren't getting the help they so desperately need. Parents are living in the past, raising kids in the 21st century the way our parents and grandparents raised their children in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

[wiredshut]

174. Use 2nd amendment to defeat them

POSSIBLE SOLUTION

You might be onto something. But we have to USE the 2nd amendment and APPLY IT VIGOROUSLY.

When the 2nd amendment was written, it applied to single shot, muzzle loading rifles and pistols. THIS NEEDS TO BE APPLIED TODAY TO THE FULLEST AND STRICTEST SENSE. In other words, ONLY such guns are covered by the 2nd A.

The NRA has to be neutered!!!

[Daninmo]

201. Does that logic also apply to the 1st also

Is freedom of speech only open to old wooden printing presses or standing in the street. Remember there was no internet, radio, or TV back then either.

[Barkoff]

220. How do you know?

You say "ONLY such weapons"? Show me where in the 2nd amendment it details which arms it includes? You now a legal scholar looking to re-write the Constitution as it would suit YOU? Between you and Harry Belefonte, you are exhibiting the very reason the 2nd amendment exists.

[Arugula Latte]

8. FUCK YOU Murderous NRA!

And FUCK the gun-humping enablers!

[phleshdef]

9. I'm so sick off these gun humping lunatics. The 2nd amendment isn't a blank check for stupidity.

[calimary]

59. You and me both, phleshdef.

Can you imagine the carnage if some swaggering gun nut adult was in there, packing heat, and deciding to play hero and "take out" the gunman with his evidently superior firepower, amid all the panic and screaming terrified children and pandemonium everywhere? Instead of 18 children dead we'd likely have 180 dead.

The "sanctity" of that stupid fucking 2nd amendment ALSO includes the language: "WELL-REGULATED MILITIA." Hear that, gun nuts? "WELL-REGULATED." That means GOVERNMENT. That means LAWS AND REGULATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS. If more of those had been in effect and maybe that gunman hadn't been so easily able to get access to guns, maybe all those dead would still be alive - and excited about celebrating Christmas in less than two weeks.

This is just AWFUL. THIS is what our precious wonderful ( ) Second Amendment gets us. What could we do to limit or dismantle some of the power the NRA has? I think that's what needs to happen at this point.

I forgot... HOW MANY mass shootings have we had - JUST THIS WEEK?????

[navarth]

200. "The 2nd amendment isn't a blank check for stupidity."

Sometimes it just gets put into focus with a single sentence. Well done.

[Barkoff]

221. Meaning?

Meaning that those who believe in the 2nd believe it is a good idea to provide access to firearms for the mentally ill? If "mom" would have survived her shooting, I would be advocating she be held accountable, depending on how her son came in possession of her guns.

[barbtries]

10. totally.

isn't it enough.

[joeybee12]

11. KNR

[sufrommich]

12. F U C K T H E N R A. nt

[NRaleighLiberal]

13. Kick and Rec

[meegbear]

14. K&R

[Tikki]

15. K&R

Tikki

[Tommy_Carcetti]

16. Seriously. Fuck em.

This post deserves every rec it gets.

[Barkoff]

224. ?

That's it? That is your answer to the problems we face in society? Mental illness is spreading like wildfire, we can no longer force treatment on the mentally ill. Every one of the shooters from Columbine, to Gabby Giffords, to Virginia tech, to Sandy Hook all had something in common. All the shooters were mentally ill, everyone around them could see they were mentally ill, but nothing was done. Instead you all want to take the easy way out, find yourselves a boogeyman in the NRA. That is so much more easy and compact. Deny EVERYONE with right to self protection because we can't figure out how to deal with the mentally ill in this country. Maybe you will feel better if Laughner would have used an axe, then we could blame ACE Hardware.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

265. I would take you to task for repeating every NRA talking point in the book....

....but it appears you are no longer with us.

Fare thee well, troll.

[FreeState]

17. + 27 n/t

[Metalflake]

18. FUCK YOU NRA! FUCK YOU!!!

May God damn you to hell you fuckin pieces of shit!

[janmweiss]

138. agree! Fuck the NRA

go to hell all you guntoting brainless fucktards who slither along our planet.

[Barkoff]

249. Outstanding

but not the fucktThat will solve a whole lot. Everything is the NRAs fault, what a cheap shallow argument that was.

[me b zola]

19. K&R

[47of74]

20. Fuck the NRA

[Initech]

21. The NRA needs their ass kicked over this one.

[DFW]

23. I know their president, David Keane

You couldn't ask for a nastier, more unpleasant individual. He represents the NRA admirably.

[GCP]

24. + 360,000,000

[LynneSin]

25. $10 says the NRA hosts a gun rally in CT within the next month

That's what these fuckers do.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

32. You're probably right.

Fascists.

[ReRe]

183. Ha! It will probably be held next Saturday, Dec 22, 2012

...so they can wish us all a Merry Christmas and Happy Hanuka. Fuck the NRA.

[Cheap_Trick]

26. But if only all the children had been armed, it would have solved everything.

[Deep13]

68. Children have a right to be armed and to wear body armor to school...

...and to spend their lives with a siege mentality. Remember kids, always be afraid!

[dchill]

27. Not much else to be said.

[NWHarkness]

28. There are two groups of people in this country

People who support gun control, and people who support the murder of children.

[WCGreen]

34. I think you got it...

But I would say...

People who support gun control and those who condone the murder of children

[Plucketeer]

40. How's about

those who condone murder period?

[Hayabusa]

29. Agreed, fuck the NRA

Fuck 'em all.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

30. FUCK THE FASCIST SYCOPHANT NRA.

RIVERS OF BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS.

[Taverner]

31. We should have a mandatory psych eval for anyone wanting to buy a weapon

Period

AND for anyone who wants to KEEP their weapon

Ex Post Facto, fuck off

[Hell Hath No Fury]

33. Fuck the NRA.

and anyone who refuses to accept the need for regulations and responsibility around weapons whose sole purpose are to kill.

[TeamPooka]

35. k+r!

[NoMoreWarNow]

36. fucking A-- if this doesn't do it, what will it take to shake the gun freaks out of their delusions?

[Moostache]

37. Why is it children who pay the price?

Fuck the gun culture.
Fuck them in the ear.
Fuck them in the other ear.

I am so sick of seeing innocent blood spilled at their altar of death worship.
Its time for karma to lay some "collateral damage" on their doorstep...
A good shooting at a fucking gun show would not settle the score, but it MIGHT make these assholes take the problem more seriously...

Better still, let them all get together and have a Mexican standoff shooting at each other.
I am heart-broken, rage-filled and torn to my soul for the loss those parents of the dead children are going through right now...

THIS. MUST. END.

[Barkoff]

244. It's too bad..

That you don't have the same level of vitriol towards those who commit these atrocities. Ot's a shame you are not this angry with those who refuse to stiffen the laws on gun violence. You get angrier with the tool than you do those who use it. Your level of anger and hate is exactly why people need the means to protect themselves, what will be the next thing that sets you off?

[Ccarmona]

39. Mr. President Please, Wake the Fuck Up...

Jay Carney was quoted as saying "today is not the day"... to discuss gun control."
If not today then when, Mr. President. That's the kind of shit you would expect from Fox News, not the WH.

[srican69]

41. America needs chemo therapy...

It has gun cancer...


nuke the Nra...

[CheapShotArtist]

43. Proud to be the 100th Rec.

NRA is nothing but a group of participants in a legalized form of domestic terrorism.

[lillypaddle]

45. beyond tragic

beyond heartbreaking. It's time for this to STOP!

[ChillZilla]

46. Whatever you do, don't worry about WHY he did this

let's just focus on HOW.

That way you don't have to answer the tough questions, just attack the easy target.

I don't give a crap about the NRA. I give a crap about what kind of a world produces men capable of this.

There was a time in this country when this would have been utterly unthinkable except by a certified lunatic. That was also a time when most people went to church. Anyone care to discuss that angle?

Doubtful. Let's just blame the NRA, keeps us from thinking too hard.

[FiveGoodMen]

54. With 7 billion people, there will always be some extremely dangerous ones around

We certainly should try to make a world in which fewer individuals want to do such things...

But it would also help if we made it harder for the crazies to succeed.

[toby jo]

55. Church? You're kidding.

First, if you want a discussion, tell me how many people, cultures, woman, your particular church killed.

Then tell me how many they are still demonizing.

Serious - then we discuss. Every gun-toting idiot I know is full of 'church'.

Tell me why that is.

If people can't get up in the morning and figure out that they are supposed to treat their neighbors like they would like to be treated without the convolution of a deified jewish rabbi who is going to 'save' their messed up selfhood, really, don't they have a problem?

[Ineeda]

60. Oh I see. It's because people don't go to CHURCH anymore.

Go preach that sanctimonious shit somewhere else today. While you're at it, don't forget to add 'family values' to the shinola.

Edited to add -- Oh yeah, fuck the NRA.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

82. "That was also a time when most people went to church. Anyone care to discuss that angle?"

OK, let's discuss it. That angle is total and complete bullshit. Ahistorical, RW BS.

On second thought, nothing to discuss. It's BS in so many obvious ways that if you don't already see it, you refuse to see it and will continue to refuse to see it.

[progressoid]

96. buh bye....ppr

[LondonReign2]

97. Not many people drive Model T Fords anymore either

Maybe THAT's the reason for mass shootings -- no one drives Model T's anymore.

(In other words, your logic might be idiotic)

[DisgustipatedinCA]

104. You're defending gun culture on the day that kindergartners were executed

Fuck off.
Then die.

[Nevernose]

117. More people attend church now

Than when the 2nd amendment was written. He'll, we have a higher attendance rate now than when the Puritans were running things, and they through people in prison for sleeping in on Sunday.

You know what else they didn't have 200 years ago? Christian gun clubs. Glocks and Sig Sauers. Mass shootings of kindergartners for no fucking reason. Theaters and malls and schools and Unitarian churches and McDonalds and post offices and lots of other places riddled with bullet holes and soaked in the blood of rampage killers every motherfucking week.

[Squinch]

121. Your post is moronic.

Last edited Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:41 PM - Edit history (1)

So, what is it you're suggesting? We should solve the problems of criminality and mental illness before we address the idiotic gun culture and the child murdering assholes that promote it?

And church? Are you fucking kidding me? This is what you're saying??

No. No one cares to discuss that angle. Because it's idiotic.

Go away.

[rhett o rick]

127. Let's start with the NRA. nm

[_ed_]

130. You're pathetic

So the answer is more religion and more guns? This isn't Fox and Friends. Take your fucking bullshit somewhere else.

[Chef Eric]

165. Right, because church-goers have rarely been violent.

Except for the church-goers who waged war against the Indians. And the church-goers who beat their slaves. And the church-goers who joined the KKK. And the church-goers who murdered doctors that performed abortions.

[wiredshut]

175. BADA-BING!!

[ReRe]

184. "Does anyone care to discuss"

...goin' to church? Which church? The Baptist Church? No, I don't particularly want to discuss religion. This is the thread to abolish the NRA, not the religion thread. But since you brought it up, exactly where WAS God yesterday? NO...forget it, I DON'T want to discuss religion at this sad time.

[Kahuna]

186. There will always be loonies in the world. There always have been..

and there always will be. They do not need to have easy access to guns. Guns only accomplish one purpose and that is to kill an intended target.

[LeftishBrit]

206. Church?

I mostly stay out of gun threads, because American gun laws are none of my business; unlike other American decisions, relating to foreign policy, war, banks, or the economy, they mostly don't affect the UK, or the rest of the world. And I am well aware that American and British culture and history are sufficiently different that British attitudes to guns may not be appropriate to another country.

But the religious right are nowadays in collusion everywhere, including some things going on pretty much in my backyard, and I have to speak out against the simplistic idea that going to church prevents murder and violence.

In the UK, according to recent statistics, 10% of people attend a religious service at least once a week, as compared with 43% in the USA.

In the UK, in 2010-2011, 0.07 per 100,000 people were victims of gun-related homicide as compared with 2.97 per 100,000 in the USA.

As regards all homicides, 1.2 per 100,000 people were victims in the UK, as compared with 4.2 per 100,000 people in the USA.

Of course, I don't for a moment suggest that churchgoing contributes to murder, any more than the lack of it does. Nor am I suggesting that the UK is somehow 'better' than the USA; there are doubtless plenty of other statistics where we do much worse, and I would certainly prefer Barack Obama as a leader to David Cameron. But the idea that if people don't go to church, this results in a violent society, is just wrong!

[OnionPatch]

210. Sure.

Prove to me that regular church-goers are more moral than the rest of the population because I don't believe it. My former church is filled with hypocrites and racists who ignore the most strident teaching of Jesus.....love one another/help one another. I saw and heard more mean-spirited gossip there than I did in high school. Their families have just as many involvements in shootings, divorces, drugs, white-collar crimes, etc. etc. as anyone else's. Church-goers have no monopoly on morals.

[toby jo]

47. We start in the dead center of the country

Iowa?

The last day of the month we do a memorial 'laying of the boots', be they what they are: booties, pumps, sneakers, steel toed ; whoever took a bullet that month. Every 3 feet we put them down, we make a trail to Beane's place, wherever that is. We film it, until we get there.

It won't take long.

If we include all the people they have killed since, say 1950, at an average of about 10,000 human beings per year, that's 620,000 paces. That's about 350 miles so far.

Of death.

Let them know every single drop of blood is memorialized. And will be.

Put them on notice we're coming. Fuck em.

[triplepoint]

48. The NRA is Laughing At the Dead

Last edited Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:32 PM - Edit history (6)

and massacres like this are likely going to be occur many times over ad infinitum/ad nauseum until we come to our senses. Start by reinstating the assault weapons ban. Continue with heavily regulating the ammunition for the same. Sue the NRA out of business and put its management in prison for several counts of being an accessory to murder. Guns do kill people. If not, maybe one of you NRA trolls reading this post needs to get the Pentagon/DOD on the phone and inform them to the contrary.
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"...We have to save each other because all victims are equal and none is more equal than others. It's everyone's duty to start the avalanche."

--Bartholomew "Barley" Scott Blair, "The Russia House"

A Moment of Introspecting a "Kid"
So, what could a "kid" be thinking nowadays....Let's say for a moment that I'm a kid, and I want to go to the movies....but it's not safe there anymore. Well, there's always the Mall...but it's not safe there anymore...Well, I can play with my friends in the schoolyard...but it's not safe there anymore. I could be shot in any of those three places. I've read and seen it on the TV and the Internet.

See what kind of world we've made for them? Do you see it now? How can children "be the future" if they're slain beforehand?
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[red dog 1]

172. Thanks for the great videos, especially George Carlin...

"Start by re-instating the assault weapons ban"....That's something Obama can start talking about now.....The American people would support him if he called for reinstating the assault weapons ban..

[MrYikes]

49. Would someone please say something negative about the shooter? Please.

[stonecutter357]

66. Sad for you

fuck them and their supporters.

[Zookeeper]

98. Which one? This one, the one in Oregon, the one in Colorado, the one in.... n/t

[Botany]

199. or the one in Arizona or the one in Wisconsin or the ....

[Shivering Jemmy]

166. Shooter no longer exists

The NRA still does.

Let's fix that.

[ellie]

50. Aye, fuck them and their supporters.

[Laf.La.Dem.]

51. KILLER = NRA

[CrispyQ]

52. FUCK. THE. NRA.

[samsingh]

273. the NRA and their cowardly supporters

[mtasselin]

53. NRA

If the nra does not want to come up with some reasonable laws then, they can go to hell and we can still protect the Constitution and the American people.

[we can do it]

56. Good idea for a bumpersticker if it wouldn't provoke a shooting.

[TimKeller]

57. I JUST WROTE ABOUT THE NRA AND THEIR BULLSHIT LOBBYISTS YESTERDAY!

This is just fucking terrible. I just wrote yesterday saying how many tragedies would it take for responsible legislation on my piece The Killing Routing [link:http://unapologeticallyliberal.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/the-killing-routine-nras-effect-on-the-us/|

Check out the straight facts by these assholes and share it in the wake of this tragedy so we see the kind of effect they have on this country

[horsedoc]

58. I am sick of hearing about gun rights

Sure you can own a single shot bolt rifle to hunt your dam deer, but why the F do we need assault rifles and every known handgun on earth.

[Jonny]

81. Why the deer?

Why should we let nut jobs practice their fetish for murder on the poor deer?

[bw3517]

85. If you are a

vegetarian / vegan, then I can understand why you wrote that. If you enjoy eating meat, then your post made no sense what-so-ever. Nothing wrong with hunting if you actually eat what you kill.

[pennylane100]

90. Except that hunting is considered a sport

It is the thrill of the kill that motivates the hunter, not the actual need for food. That stuff may have worked a hundred years ago but the only reason people go out and shoot animals today is they enjoy the hunt. They think it is somehow exciting that they were able to track down a live prey and shoot it. They always justify it by saying that they only do it to eat. I do not buy that.

[wiredshut]

177. EXACTLY!!

[OrwellwasRight]

203. Look I hate the NRA as much as the next guy,

but what you said isn't exactly true.

1) Why should people be forced to buy hormone-riddled, factory farmed meat available in supermarkets? Why shouldn't they be allowed to hunt wild game for food? Many people do enjoy the taste of elk, etc. (not me, but some people), and I don't know anyone who goes deer hunting and leaves the dead deer in the forest instead of bringing it home to eat.

2) There is also an ecological reason to hunt deer. Deer are an herbivore that if not controlled through predation (natural or man-made, and natural predation has a hard time doing its job these days since the human species has put most predators on the endangered species list) will commit serious harm to the ecosystem through overgrazing. Their overgrazing leads to insufficient food supply for other smaller herbivores, huge die-offs, etc.

Look, I understand that every American does not enjoy actual hunting, and those who don't should eat from the supermarket. But it isn't really your place to force people to shop at grocery stores instead of hunting for wild game or to condemn the ecosystem to imbalance.

That being said, no one needs an automatic weapon, or a semi automatic weapon, or a handgun, or a dozen of any sort of weapon to hunt deer, elk, antelope, or other game. A bow and arrow or a rifle will do quite nicely.

[wiredshut]

178. "Thou shall not kill <empty>"

In my religion, God commanded "thou shall not kill". Notice it is not written thou shall not kill humans?? Being humans, and the highest developed species, we allowed our egos to assume it was for humans only. So it makes me wonder how He is going to evaluate killing animals for "sport" in this day and age? It takes a real man to gun down an un-armed deer, whose only defense is running.

The "real men" should go kill a Grizzly Bear hands on, with nothing more than a ball bat. When he takes one hug swat and shreds your throat, I'll clap for the bear!

[mainstreetonce]

61. Fuck the NRA

And every person who has ever defended them .
Gun apologists can go to hell.


Signed
Grandma who just came from an elementary school with doors wide open so all could walk in.
I watched kindergarten children singing while others were told their children are dead.

Fuck the NRA

[earthside]

62. I'm changing.

I've been pretty pro-Second Amendment.

But something is clearly wrong in this country.

I despise the NRA ... it is not a gun advocacy organization, but rather a partisan, pro-Repuglican group.

Of course, we don't know all the facts yet, but I think I am going to change my mind about assault rifles and large clips. I also think, that as a country, we need to look at the bigger acceptance of violence in our culture -- including POV shooter video games.

It is the individual and what motivates or perverts them -- however, the now legal equipment is obviously enabling this kind of mass slaughter.

And ... the notion that you can kill and kill and kill in a fantasy video world also enables this kind of slaughter.

Yup. Something has got to change.

[Hoyt]

63. NRA leadership includes Grover Norquist, John Bolton, Teddy Nugent, gun manufacturers and profiteers

Ollie North and perhaps worse. The actively tried to defeat Obama and other good Democrats.

[Sienna86]

64. This is also a mental health access issue,

Along with a compliance to mental health treatment issue.

[valerief]

65. Funny how these disasters happen. No one is talking about right to work today. nt

[Javaman]

69. 27 people were killed at an elementary school.

most of them little kids.

Really?

[valerief]

77. I know. It's tragic. And they were murdered, not just killed. I meant on TV and radio

right to work became unimportant. Forgotten.

[Javaman]

89. listen, I'm a union member. Local Cameraman 600

and I can for a day put aside those issues to be concerned about the 27 lives that were just killed today.

So again, really?

[Squinch]

124. +1

[jeff47]

140. Seriously? You are arguing 20 5-year-olds were murdered so people wouldn't talk about RTW?

Please get help. You need some. Very badly.

[Javaman]

161. What? Point to me where I infer you are a conspiracy nut?

And "look over there!"??? What the hell does that even imply or supposed to mean?

Take a break and stop digging.

Yes, you were trying to minimize the tragedy.

I quote: "Funny how these disasters happen. No one is talking about right to work today"

What is that supposed to mean otherwise?

Good lord.

[AllyCat]

144. Solidarity with this statement from a fellow union worker.

[Deep13]

70. God damn the union-busting fascists! nt

[bettyellen]

131. what a fucked up thing to say. demented

[valerief]

132. see 128

[Deep13]

67. God damn them. nt

[notundecided]

71. Happy Fuckin NRA

And may you burn in hell!

[colsohlibgal]

72. Exactly

It's astonishing how they have had such power, have even democrats quaking in their boots, afraid to take a stand and risk getting in their "list".

The whole mythology is a crock. The 2nd amendment was written in an entirely different time - should we bring back slavery too?

I hope Obama shows a spine for once and goes after the NRA and the gun nut jobs. I doubt he'll do it or anything close and that's sad.

To get a gun a person needs to be checked out thoroughly, world record thoroughly. As it is any mental case can go get any kind of firearm he or she wants - that's ridiculous and the proof is what's happened over and over, and now with increased frequency.

These were young children for God's sake, the time is now!

[cer7711]

73. Pro-gun Slogan: "You'll Take My Gun When . . .

. . . you pry my cold dead hands from it."


Okay. It's a deal.

Enough . . . is . . . ENOUGH!!!

The first person who tells me that this is "too soon" to talk about gun control or that "I'm trying to politicize a tragedy" might just get a very atypical heated reaction from me today and in the days to follow.

This is more than tragedy, it is atrocity. ATROCITY.

We know what the problem is, given our violent, alienated society and ready access to guns. Time to impose a little "austerity" of our own on the death merchants and their endless stream of guns and cheap ammunition.

All in favor say, "ENOUGH!"

[bw3517]

91. Sorry

"might just get a very atypical violent reaction from me today and in the days to follow."

You can't solve violence with more violence.

[cer7711]

106. Correct! I Needed One More Edit There.

I was thinking in terms of rhetoric: communicating in direct, plain-speaking words and phrases--albeit it right now a bit more heatedly than normal.

[Hepburn]

74. FUCK THE NRA AND THE GUN NUTS x's INFINITY!

I hate the NRA --

They encourage all the nut jobs to pack, carry, conceal, fire first and ask questions later.

[flying-skeleton]

75. The Republicans are to blame 1000% ...

Fuck the NRA and every single politician stooge in Congress who fights their cause. What the mindless idiots that they are. The Republicans will ONLY learn when a similar incident happens in their Republican chambers. I sincerely hope that does not happen but seriously ..... what will it take ??????

[JungleJoel]

76. The NRA speaks:

NRA: If those 5-year old children had been armed and trained, they could have defended themselves!

[Andy Stanton]

92. I'm waiting for some RW idiot

To spew something like this. It's the argument they always use.

[SummerSnow]

149. The NRA is...

Funding a summer camp for kids to learn how to shoot guns

[malaise]

78. +1,000,000 more fucks!

Stop them NOW!

[werknotgoin2takeit]

79. The same picture repeats in my head

Last edited Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:13 PM - Edit history (1)

A Christmas tree whose lights blink less brightly.
A carefully wrapped gift that will now never be opened by excited hands and a smiling face.
A home of mourning instead of merriment.

They were kindergartners. 20 of them. Goodbye little ones. I wish your lives had been more precious then our "right" to bear arms.

[smirkymonkey]

147. God, your post just really hit home.

I cannot imagine the pain of those families. The little children who will never celebrate Christmas again. I am so depressed.

This is tragic beyone description. I am absolutely horrified and I DESPISE the NRA.

[laundry_queen]

235. As the parent

of a kindergartener who has presents under the tree at this moment...I can't imagine her never getting to open them. I can't stop hugging my kids and crying. Thoose poor, poor families.

[union_maid]

80. Yes, it is.

They'll never own to it, but they are accomplices before the fact to all these sorts of crimes. I don't care how the perpetrator got the guns. The NRA has made sure that they are plentiful and available to any mouth breather who wants one, regardless of mental health.

[2naSalit]

113. seems that access to guns is easier than access to healthcare...

Interesting, n'est ce pas?

[wiredshut]

179. That's the Republican mantra!!!

GOP assholes.

And if the Democrats don't grow a pair of balls on this one, they will all one big tank of assholes with the GOP.

[jimlup]

83. NRA and its supporters are insane

They truly are.

[moondust]

84. K/R

[Ilsa]

86. Fuck the goddam NRA. Take their fucking guns.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-13/for-gun-makers-nra-good-times-get-better

[RobertSeattle]

87. If only Obama could order the Leaders of the NRA to get to every funeral

[ReRe]

187. That would be a big no-no.....

......who would want to see their faces? I say they should pay for the funerals of all the deceased. Yeah, make them pay for everyone's funeral. Make the members pay.

[SoonerPride]

88. white house.gov petition on gun control policy

please sign and share widely

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/set-date-and-time-have-conversation-about-gun-policy-united-states/gzWCnDSX

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

93. Yeah, fuck 'em.

We can discuss the implications of 2A, but they have a far RW agenda that supercedes 2A.

[fredamae]

94. I called-When I asked

How Do You Justify This Outcome and Many More--of Your Draconian Approach/Support To Gun Rights? The NRA Hung Up on Me.
Demand Modernization of the Second Amend to Reflect the increased population And the Modernization of weaponry that could not even have been imagined when the Second was First drafted.

[Zookeeper]

95. Wayne LaPierre and the gun and ammo manufacturers are getting richer...

selling sickness and fear, while innocent people die.

[lanlady]

99. FUCK the NRA, FUCK GUNS, AND FUCK OUR INSANE GUN-LOVING CULTURE

(damn, that felt good)

[3catwoman3]

169. Add the overinterpretation...

...of the second amendment to your list - well regulated militia my ass. Eff the whole amendment.

[SCantiGOP]

100. a disgusting result of this

Will be that some people will go and buy automatic weapons or more ammo thinking that the country may wake up one day and start banning these weapons that only the military and SWAT teams should have access to.

[thucythucy]

136. Give me a break!

"...we have a zillion damned weapons in this country, and no way are you going to round them up and melt them down. We have thousands upon thousands of automatic weapons and other horrific weapons in public hands. You aren't going to get them off the street - not in your lifetime or mine."

You can thank the NRA for that.

"a desperate simple solution to a complex problem"

You mean, like buying a gun is a simple solution to the complex problem of how to deal with a screwed up life? Again, you can thank the NRA that so many people have decided owning and using a gun is the simple solution to all their complex problems.

"we need to do whatever is possible to prevent them."

Except restrict the precious rights of NRA members to own whatever weaponry they feel necessary to solve their "complex problems."

The NRA is at the absolute white hot center of this atrocity. It is the NRA that has opposed every reasonable restriction on "gun rights"--which I take to be the rights of gun manufacturers to keep us all in terror, for our own lives and the lives of our children, so that they can turn a profit.

So, to Hell with the NRA and all who sail with it. And to Hell with all the "gun rights" apologists who seek to cool the anger of those who see this obscenity for what it is. Let the faces of these dead children haunt them for the rest of their squalid, putrifying lives.

[jeff47]

142. You aren't being nearly as clever as you think

Why do we "have a zillion damned weapons in this country"?

The NRA. Their lobbying and lying about gun control are why there's so many guns.

Those desperate suicidal people you talk about wouldn't be able to get off so many shots without extended clips the NRA are desperate to keep. They wouldn't have assault rifles to fire all those bullets quickly. And a million other pieces the NRA enables.

Would there be 0 gun violence without the NRA? No, of course not. But there would be much less.

[fredamae]

102. Resignation From The NRA

https://www.facebook.com/lee.c.rogers/posts/10200307832243804

[DisgustipatedinCA]

103. And fuck any liberal who still gives this rightwing terrorist organization any money

[SoapBox]

105. Ditto.

Fuck the sicko bastards of the NRA.

[young_at_heart]

107. How many murdered before they care?

I include Fox News with the NRA, as they have defended guns over people many times.

[OrwellwasRight]

204. You're asking the wrong question. They will never care.

That is the problem. Guns have their own ideology/religion in the country. Much like "low taxes" and "free trade" no evidence of the destructive power of their point of view will penetrate their biased minds, which are infected with belief and not searching for logic. So long as you tell yourself "guns don't kill people, people kill people," no number of murders is too high, because it is not the gun doing it -- you've already decided.

I think we need to, like everything else, start with the kids. Turn guns from a macho weapon to a coward's weapon. That is what they are, after all. They allow people kill from a great distance, away from the blood and the smell of burning flesh. You don't have to have skill, like you might if you tried to kill 30 people with a sword or a knife, and you don't have to have stamina and strength, like you would if you tried to kill 30 people with your bare hands or a baseball bat. It's violence and control at a distance, a weapon for weaklings and cowards. Let's get Hollywood to stop portraying gun toters are muscle bound heroes, and portray them for the wimps that they are. Teaching children a new way is the only thing that will work, just like it is starting to work with reducing racism and homophobia.

[young_at_heart]

213. Also---let's get ride of horrific video games

I read about a very popular video game called "Gears of War" and the description is frightening!

[OrwellwasRight]

241. I don't understand parents who buy those for their kids. nt.

[Dookiestix]

108. The Fucking NRA...

...will yet again accept this as collateral damage as long as gun sales continue unabated without consequence nor reason. This has, and always will be, their business plan. And it is over the dead bodies of countless innocent children.

FUCK THEM!

[MatthewStLouis]

109. Fucking Amen!

They need to man up and stop pretending someone wants to take their guns away and if everyone had a machine gun in their pocket the world would be a safer place.

We only want a little sanity and reasonableness. We don't want crazy people to have easy access to mass murdering machines. It's that simple. Period.

(Maybe they'd understand if we called them WMD's.)

[dinger130]

110. I agree

but go one step further. I have a son who is severely mentally ill. You can't imagine what I have gone through with the mental health system. It is nothing. Upon his last release from a mental hospital for just a few days, I was told that there is no place for him (no money) and to let him go. I could write a book. Presently, he is roaming around northern California off and on his meds. It is excruciating for me and my family always wondering if the next phone call is from the coroner. He has attempted suicide numerous times. A few years ago, I even pressed bogus charges against my own son to get him help in a psychiatric area in prison. This country has no decent mental health system. It is a pill mill.

[samsingh]

111. they love their guns more than the kids

[Care Acutely]

112. <--

[Downtown Hound]

114. Now here's one thread that I'm damn proud to K&R!

FUCK THE NRA!

[Veracious]

116. FUCK THE NRA

We need better control on guns.

[apocalypsehow]

118. Kick & Rec. n/t.

[secondvariety]

119. Fuck the NRA

Fuck Marion Hammer and fuck all the cowardly piece of shit gun lovers. Burn in hell, bastards.

[TxVietVet]

122. The Nutjob Rifle Association is owned by the gun and ammo manufacturers of the USA.

Never forget that.

[Warren DeMontague]

123. K&R

It needs to be said.

[glinda]

125. Kick

[queentonic]

126. Vietnam All Over Again

How many of you 'Nam vets remember Whole Baggage telling us we couldn't take an AK-47 back home with us because it was considered a combat assault rifle and therefore illegal? We can thank the NRA for changing that one. So I say send the NRA and it's supporters to a real war and let them live out their wet dreams of killing people. But they need to keep in mind that in a war zone, people shoot back with intent to kill as well. The NRA is evil in its purest sense of the word.

[rhett o rick]

129. I couldnt have said it better. nm

[notgoinback]

133. Don't blame the NRA? Why the hell not?

Isn't America a great country? Soon our children will leave for school every
morning hoping they make it home alive.

No doubt some NRA "spokesmen" will call this latest bloody massacre an
"unusual" or "isolated" incident, but here is body count that should outrage
every parent:
Moss Lake WI - 14-year-old student opens fire in class, killing a teacher...
Springfield OR - 2 teenagers fatally shot, 20 others wounded in high school
cafeteria...Santee CA - 15-year-old student fatally shoots 2 classmates,
wounds 12 others...Deming NM - 13-year-old middle-school girl shot to death
by 12-year old boy...Red Lake MN - armed teenager kills grandparent, security
guard, teacher and 5 students, wounds 14 others...Madison WI - high school
student shoots and kills principal...Northern Illinois University - gunman opens
fire in lecture hall, slaying 6 people and wounding 15 others...Mount Morris MI
- 1st grade boy armed with .32 caliber handgun, kills 6-year-old girl...Midland MI
- teenager fatally shoots girlfriend in high school parking lot...Lancaster PA -
Gunman enters rural schoolhouse, kills 3 children, wounds 13 others...Delaware
State University - 2 students shot to death in gymnasium...West Paducah KY -
14-year-old fatally shoots 3 students, wounds 3 others ( one left paralyzed )
...Knoxville TN - 16-year-old shot dead in high school cafeteria...Virginia Tech
University - 32 students perish in shooting rampage.
And who can ever forget the Columbine horror story. Maybe Eric Harris and his
pal Dylan are the starring villains in that tragedy, but how did two adolescent
sociopaths get military combat weapons and all those boxes of "ammo"? It
was easy! A friend of theirs just went shopping at a "gun show", where, thanks
to NRA lobbyists, even a fugitive felon can buy all the murderous, high-tech
firearms they want by scribbling any name and address on a receipt

[geomon666]

134. Fuck the Gun Culture!

That enable and fund the NRA to kill any kind of meaningful gun control laws.

[KG]

135. the NRA cares nothing about where guns ends up, just so long as they get sold.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

137. K & R! nt

[Spryguy]

141. K &R Fuck the NRA

And fuck the Gungeon those NRA gun loving right wing assholes need to get kicked the hell off DU. Gun worshipping assholes are everything wrong with America luck the 2A and luck them!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

157. Spry, I'm 100000% with you on guns...

However, there are some decent people around who are all in love with guns. I met one not long ago. I nearly lost my temper with him. GREAT lib, except when it comes to guns. When it comes to guns, he's a regular little fascist. I guess to him it's a "guy thing." What's so "guy" about equipment whose only purpose for being manufactured is to murder?

[Skittles]

143. fuck the NRA and every cowardly gun nut on this planet

I am SICK OF THEM

[BlancheSplanchnik]

145. first thing I thought when I heard about it.

we are a sick sick nation

[Duval]

146. Thank you!!!

[myrna minx]

148. K&R

[rury]

150. K&R!!!!!!!!

[ChaseHill]

152. Blame the shooter

While this is a horrible tragedy, how about you all wait for the facts before you all throw stones at a constututional right and focus that hated to a sick individual who I'm sure has some mental sickness. How about you lock them all up. The streets will be safer!

[hrmjustin]

155. People want to talk about gun control here, and the NRA is in the way.

[jillan]

159. You want facts???? The fact is that Kindergartners were MURDERED today.

There is your fucking facts.

[Shivering Jemmy]

167. The shooter is dead

What good does blaming him do us now?

Eliminating the NRA? Now that could do a world of good.

[BainsBane]

190. How about the 14th amendment?

You want to lock up everyone with mental illness so you can continue to play with your murder machines to your hearts content? Fuck you. Most of those who suffer from depression, the most common mental illness and one of the most common diseases on earth, are women. Yet men are the ones who murderer. Why not lock all men up instead? No, you blame mental illness, something you know Nothing about, so you can justify your bloodthirsty hobby. Take your bigotry elsewhere.

I blame people like you and the NRA than empower the shooter to acquire guns and commit mass murder. Who cares about the lives of children anyway. Your right to compensate for your inadequacy by stockpiling weapons is so much more important than human life.

[BainsBane]

191. Why come here to troll?

Don't you have some children's graves to dance on?

[Barkoff]

251. So

You are not interested in opinion unless it mirrors your own?

[BainsBane]

252. Not now, no

Give people time to grieve. Your opinion dominates this country, the law, the media, everywhere. Yet you can't bear the fact someone may not worship guns above human life. We have 300 million guns in this country. Gun control is nonexistent in American politics. What more do you vultures want? Mind control? You have twenty tiny graves to dance on. Take your well earned victories of mass murder and leave me the fuck alone.

[_ed_]

196. Go away

Stop trolling DU to spew your gun nut bullshit.

[OrwellwasRight]

205. We are throwing stones at the NRA, not the Constitution.

They are two separate things. VERY separate. If you don't get that, I have doubts about your ability to engage in rational conversation here on DU.

But welcome to DU anyway.

[Joey Liberal]

153. FUCK THE NRA!

Frickin gun nut losers....

[Kablooie]

156. The NRA should be eliminated and an organization focussed on gun safety should replace it.

That is what it was supposed to be, once upon a time.
It's become a political organization focused on making it easier for insane people to commit mass murder.

[fearnobush]

158. I seriously hope Mike Bloomberg launches his billions against this NRA terrorist organization.

[link:https://www.google.com/search?q=bloomberg+vs+nra&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari|

[red dog 1]

160. "With a 10,000 percent tax, we could tax guns out of existence"

Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (March 16, 1927 - March 26, 2003)

[MrMickeysMom]

162. Yes, I'm afraid we're gonna keep seeing it...

None of these motherfuckers has the intestinal fortitude to turn away guns or religion. I'm talking BOTH HOUSES!

[lupinella]

163. K&R n/t

[the devil]

164. I'm not a constitutional lawyer or expert, but...

Amendment 2 - The Right To Bear Arms

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Notes for this amendment:
Proposed 9/25/1789
Ratified 12/15/1791"

Please inform me where in this amendment does it say anything about the acquisition of ammunition....because there isn't anything. One of the magazines people who love guns is called Guns and Ammo, which means that they see the two as being separate. So, if the Second Amendment does not include any language allowing for the acquisition, sale, or purchase of ammunition, the solution is simple:

Ammunition should not be allowed for purchase or sale.

Yes, I do understand that selling guns, but not allowing ammunition to be sold is like selling cars and banning gas stations. Unless you're a hunter, police officer, or in the military, you shouldn't need to have a gun. There are a large number of gun owners in the United States who have purchased guns to protect themselves. The majority of them have never been victims of violent crime. This is the result of living in a culture of fear, where you are to fear your neighbor instead of loving your neighbor.

For those who want to point out that I am wrong, or that I should shut my mouth and go back under that rock I crawled out from under, I will provide this little tidbit, something a lot of people seem to have forgotten...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Notes for this amendment:
Proposed 9/25/1789
Ratified 12/15/1791,

That's Amendment 1, ratified the same day that the Right to Bear Arms was. You have the right to own your gun...I have the right to say you shouldn't have ammunition for it.

Rant over. Good night all, and my thoughts are with the families of the victims.

[Barkoff]

240. Wow!

Unless you're a hunter, police officer, or in the military, you shouldn't need to have a gun. There are a large number of gun owners in the United States who have purchased guns to protect themselves. The majority of them have never been victims of violent crime.

Just wow! So how does one determine if they are to be the chosen victim of that day? Under your theory we should have no need for policeman, when it is your day to become a victim, you just stay home? Should we make it a law that only after you have been a victim may you acquire the means to protect yourself? Alone, how many women do you figure have been raped in their own homes?

There seems to always be a common thread between victims, they almost always say, "I never believed it would happen to me", or "this is such a nice place, this sort of thing never happens here".

Now if you want to put your faith in humanity, that is your right to do so, but do not infringe on my right to make my choices based on your beliefs and faith in your local PD.

[the devil]

261. Victims, aren't we all?

I never said or implied that we didn't need police officers. We would still require police officers to deal with crimes that don't involve firearms (traffic violations, stabbings, rapes, etc.). What I did say is that there are a lot of gun owners who have never been victims of any kind of violent crime who have guns in their possession to protect them. Why do they have them?

Because Fox News and their ilk continue with the idea that "if it bleeds, it leads" and people believe the crime rate is going up. Check the statistics...the actual statistics, not the ones provided by the NRA or Fox, and you'll see that, in most cases, violent crime rates are dropping across the United States. Sexual assaults appear to be the anomaly, but I think that's more due to the fact that women who are assaulted are more likely to report than they used to be. At least, I would hope that is the case.

The police and the military should be allowed to carry guns. They have significant hours of training in order to do so, and I'm not talking an hour a week at the gun club. They are trained to deal with the weapons they carry and some have the resources to deal with the psychological effects afterward. Hunters should also have guns. They know what a rifle is used for, and they also know that if they were to use it against a person, that is just one more strike against hunters being able to have access to firearms. Ask any hunter from Canada about using razor tipped crossbow bolts. They were legal until someone used them to kill a woman in Ottawa. Then the government banned them. Did it hurt hunting in Canada? No, it only took one thing away.

I have little to no faith in humanity. In my lifetime I've seen people do things to other people because they gave them a dirty look. Or because they had some money or other possession. Or because of the color of their skin, the god they choose to believe in, the person they happen to love...there are so many reasons. And not one of those reasons is a good reason.

If I have to make a bomb, where there's a chance I'll blow myself up in the process of making it, maybe I'll think twice about making that bomb. If I'm going to stab someone, I'm going to have to look them in the eye and ask myself if I think it's worth it. Guns make it too easy to end someone else's life. I don't have to look you in the eye. I can shoot you from far away and feel nothing. As long as it's pointed in the right direction and in good working order, I won't hurt myself either.

I am finding one argument (and, no, it isn't yours) ridiculous...and that is that cars kill more people than guns. Cars serve many purposes, like taking people to and from work. Take a car to work and nobody looks at you. Take a gun to work...you leave in handcuffs. Guns are meant for killing... When someone drives into a mall, or a mosque, or a school, and starts running over people in an attempt to kill multiple people, then we can talk about taking cars away.

People need to turn off their televisions and stop living in fear.

[Zoeisright]

170. Exactly. Muskets only, gun nuts.

[King_Klonopin]

171. FTNRA

God and Guns go together for many of these yahoos. Ask
the man who killed Dr. Tiller in the name of God.

I wouldn't doubt if some believed that there are guns in heaven,
and that Jesus battles Satan with a 9 mm or an AK-47.

Sure, their beliefs and reasoning are insane -- but time has
proven that they cannot be convinced of this.

In Palestine, Gaza, Syria, etc. the children live with the constant
anxiety that they may be killed at any moment -- by a lethal weapon.
Very soon, we will have the same conditions here in the U.S., where,
in some places, that fear has already started taking firm root.

But the enemy here is not an invading army or armed terrorists.
The enemy is US, ourselves. The enemy is our romance with violence
and death. The enemy takes the form of a violent and malcontented
neighbor, or an anonymous psychopath -- an evil and soulless "person"
with an easily-obtained outlet for expressing his rage.

We are a society that is heading toward an atavistic destiny of total
anomie, one which some of those yahoos mis-characterize as "freedoms".

To quote a great line from the movie "Witness", when the Amish grandfather
offers some wise advice to his grandson about guns:
"Whatever you take into your hand, you take into your heart."

The collective heart of America is filled with guns. God, save us all !

[greyghost]

173. FUCK THE NRA!

[cantbeserious]

182. The Young Turks Ask The Right Question

[link:

|

[Kahuna]

185. Double fuck them!!

[workinclasszero]

188. FUCK THE NRA!

The terrorist arm of the teabag republican party KILLS CHILDREN!

How many little innocent kids have to DIE before we ban fuckin military grade KILLING MACHINE weapons with huge clips?

They are specifically designed to KILL PEOPLE! That is their one and only function!

I am so damn tired of seeing innocent people and now even 5 and ten year old children!, mowed down by some filthy insane NRA gun nut!

FUCK THE NRA, THE FUCKING REPUBLICANS and the FUCKING RIGHT WING RELIGIOUS NUTS who call the murder of 5 and 10 year old kids, the result of "kicking God out of school"!!??!!

These right wing fanatics are KILLING OUR CHILDREN with their damn gun love! Are we going to PROTECT OUR CHILDREN, or not???

[titanicdave]

189. You Are Exactly

right........FUCK THE NRA............these assholes have been far too powerful for far too long......they completely distort the second amendment and use it to their own selfish self interest.........this is an organization that needs some very high scrutiny from the federal government and the way that they operate and continue to lie to the public to justify themselves.........

[Ford_Prefect]

192. A bonfire at National Rifle Association of America 11250 Waples Mill Road Fairfax, VA would go

a long way to making clear how little their views are tolerated. Egyptian patriots did it to the Muslim Brotherhood headquarters in reaction to the onerous constitution that is being rammed down their throats. It may well be time for such an object lesson.

But then again Tar and Feathers might just be too light a sentence for such a cynical and inhuman set of liars.

If the NRA want personal responsibility in action lets give them what they seem to demand. Surround Wayne LaPierre and Ted Nugent and force them to personally apologize to each child, teacher, friend, family member, police and EMS workers and personally pay for all costs and services.

[Spryguy]

194. Oooh!

I love that idea. Ted Nugent and the other NRA fucks should be made to pay restitution to every victim's family of gun violence!

[iloveObama12]

193. Yep F em"

O coming for that ass

[TBF]

195. K&R nt

[RedstDem]

197. Don't get me wrong, i'm notta gun nut, but

seems to me we need nut control. somehow, someway there must be something we can do.
free mental health care??
maybe a gun owners license to own, with a questionnaire that tips us off to nuttiness?
I just don't know
if there were a law that put an end to gun massacre's, i think we would already have it..

it's fucking sad.

[G_j]

202. thank you! FUCK THE NRA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AngryOldDem]

208. K&R

In the reddest neighborhood in the reddest county in one of the reddest states in the nation, this sign was in a yard this morning: "**** the NRA."

So maybe -- maybe! -- the light is beginning to dawn on a lot of people.

[Odin2005]

209. The NRA is a terrorist organization!

[homegirl]

211. karma?

Shot and killed by her son with one of her own guns. If it had stopped there it would still rival a Greek tragedy. Why did she have these guns? Was there any concern for the killers mental health? And the innocents suffer and die.

Now is the time for President Obama to lead in banning assault weapons and ammunition, he won't be running for office any time soon and the NRA must be leashed.

[vkkv]

212. I want to know exactly how much in tax dollars peoples right to bear "ARMS" is COSTING ME.

Where is the anti-TAX crowd?

I want to know exactly how much in tax dollars peoples right to bear "ARMS" is COSTING ME.

How much are firearms costing us regarding police hours, prosecutor hours, government vehicles and insurance, gas, vehicle repairs, prison food, prison clothes, chains, water, court costs, judges salaries, district attorney pay, prison heat & electric, other court employees, jailer costs, court heating & electric, public defenders, hospitalization, welfare to victim's families, property liability insurance, coroner fees, cremation fees and other associated costs relating to gun crime??

Way too much cost per person just so that some idiot can own an automatic or semi-automatic or repeating rounds weapon.

Call your Congressman and demand an economic study on the costs!

Do it now to keep your tax dollars from protecting some crazy neighbor's "right" to own an Uzi.

[Barkoff]

216. $$

I don't know exactly, how much is the privilege of driving costing tax payers, not only in costs for road upkeep, but hospital costs for those involved in accidents? Road rage alone probably surpasses the costs you are objecting to.

[vkkv]

219. Driving?? Funny

Cars and transportation a HUGE PART OF ECONOMIC GROWTH!. You've seen the math on how traffic alone costs the economy. Imagine the economy if we had no cars.

Exactly how are guns contributing to the economy even by a thousandth of the jobs in manufacturing guns.

[Barkoff]

230. Irrelevant

The 2nd amendment is not a economic measure, but is does contribute to jobs and tax base.

You have not answered any of my questions, what do you say to the woman living alone who has an ex stalking her? What do you say to the gay person who have been beat to a pulp? What do you say to victims of home invasions and or rape? None of you has the right to protect yourself anymore because 1% of gun owners are criminal?

My mother lives alone now that my father has passed. Her neighbor grows weed in his backyard...lots of it. Her front door is right in line with the fence the neighborhood thieves use to rip off the neighbor's garden. At least three times my father armed himself when the thieves were in his yard. Never had to use it, but he had it. Oh ya, the cops showed up twenty minutes later and took a report. You have no right to infringe on my mother's right to self protection.

I guess in your world without guns the crimes against others would stop?

[Cynicus Emeritus]

214. Should we Fuck the Constitution too?

The wealthy banksters, drillers and corporate elites that enjoy their G-d given right of eminent domain for profit, are coming for your pensions and Social Security next, but before they attempt it, they want a nation of huddled neutered disarmed serfs. They'll get it too because most Americans are so clueless to ever see beyond the propaganda that they are force fed by a corporate media that doesn't work for them.

The philosophy of wealthy elites today is no different that it was in the middle ages. They want a neutered threat free disarmed society with no political clout, where they have ultimate power to control that society at will and the stripping firearms is one of the first means to that end just as it was to Jews in Germany.

The crux of the problem with mass killers is that they are all mentally disturbed. Today they can not be institutionalized and evaluated and forced to take meds even if family members recognize a problem. Sane thinking Americans have never committed these atrocious acts and sane thinking Americans should not lose their rights to protect themselves and our democracy. There is a common denominator between the perps and it is the inability of those who knew them as family to have them evaluated and treated. There is no mental health system except for 2 week patches and that is the problem.

[compintheusa]

231. Very well said Cynicus Emeritus!

Glad there is a voice of reason here.

You kids that only know how to throw f-bombs should listen - and learn - from this individual.

[OrwellwasRight]

257. You're right, let's not infringe on the right of crazy people to have guns.

And if you think you and your stash of AK-47s are going to take down the US Army and its tanks, drones, flame throwers, f-18s, grenades, RPGs, SLBMs, and other assorted nuclear and non-nuclear weapons, you have another think coming. But go ahead and keep citing the need for guns as a way to overthrow the government. 'Cause its a totally relevant argument. Ever heard of the ballot box? Nah. Let's shoot people instead.

[Cynicus Emeritus]

262. Its becomes both disturbing and absolutely amazing

that so called liberal and progressive free thinkers have allowed themselves to be hoodwinked and brainwashed even before the victims are buried. Politicians are outrageously playing what they do best which is to divide us so that they might make a political case intended to disarm average Americans on behalf of their billionaire cronies and ultra wealthy NY bankers who have as their latest goal to grab our pensions.

What I see are too many people in America that are snookered by the media interests and by both Parties that will put the interests of super rich benefactors either as bankers or corporations over the rights of average Americans. Big money can buy opinions and politics and that is their intent. Strip firearms and it equals stripping of political power. This is about underlying politics, and not insurrection.

[OrwellwasRight]

263. What are you even talking about?

Last edited Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:16 PM - Edit history (1)

How many people here have you just insulted by calling us "hoodwinked and brainwashed"? I would say know your audience, and you don't. Just what politicians are brainwashing us? Especially when our complaint is that the politicians won't stand up to the gun manufacturers lobby and put some common sense regulations in place so that it is not so easy for the unstable to get their hands on easily reloadable assault style weapons?

"Snookered by both parties"? 1) Another insult to DUers. 2) Yes, that great bastion of gun control, the Republicans. (As if the Democrats are any better on that issue).

The banks are already in control, and there are about 300 million guns in American, or so the gun owners tell me. The banks don't care if we have guns. And more semi-automatic weapons won't bring down the banks' power.

Your argument, sad to say, is extremely unconvincing. And presented in such an offensive and rude way that it wouldn't convince me if it there were some signs of merit.

[OrwellwasRight]

259. PS The NRA is not enshrined in the Constitution.

Saying fuck the NRA is NOT the equivalent of saying fuck the Constitution.


And Charlton Heston is not a Bible figure. In case you were confused about that, too.

[Barkoff]

215. Misguided

The blood of these children is on the hands of the individual who could look a five year old in the face and pull a trigger. The blood is on the hands of those who knew this kid was sick, yet allowed him to gain access to weapons.

As much as you folks don't want to hear it, the NRA protects the freedom for us to protect ourselves should an angry mob (such as this one) should ever come after me for my beliefs or opinions.

No place else in our society are the innocent and law abiding punished for the actions of criminals. What I have just read here toady is condemnation of the 99.9% over the actions of the .1% Perhaps we should outlaw driving after 11:00PM in order to prevent death by drunk drivers?

The evilness lies with those who commit such acts, not the method used to commit said evil.

[vkkv]

223. No place else in our society are ..law abiding punished for the actions of criminals. FUNNY!!

""No place else in our society are the innocent and law abiding punished for the actions of criminals. ""

Uh Barkoff, those "criminals" you mention?? They weren't criminals until the THEY SHOT SOMEBODY! Before they SHOT SOMEBODY, they were just normal GUN OWNERS!

And by the way, cars and transportation a HUGE PART OF ECONOMIC GROWTH!. You've seen the math on how traffic alone costs the economy. Imagine the economy if we had no cars.

Exactly how are guns contributing to the economy even by a thousandth of the jobs in manufacturing guns.

[Barkoff]

227. "Criminals are not criminals until they comit a crime"

You are right, criminals aren't criminals until they commit a crime, that is the first thing sensible thing I have read on this thread so far, but you seek to deny the right to protection to those who have committed no crime. Should we castrate all men because they might commit rape?

But again, you seek to punish the 99% for the action of the 1%, there is no getting around it. Tell me where else in society we do this?

How does guns contribute to society? For the thousand and thousands that have prevented personal harm or death to themselves. You refuse to accept that evil exists with the exception of the NRA. I won't even go into all the jobs and tax base guns provide, it is irrelevant, it is about denying the weak self protection from the strong and wicked. There is not a doubt in my mind, given the right circumstance, you would want self protection in your hand, you may not realize that until it happens.

You need to seek the bigger picture, the root of the problem, not the tool used.

[3catwoman3]

226. Interesting choice of screen name.

Your final sentence reminds me a bit of Paul Ryan referring to rape as a "method of conception."

[Barkoff]

228. What is in a name?

Well if you figure out my screen name, let me know, I would be interested also.

To which line do you refer?

[3catwoman3]

272. My comment was directed...

...to "Misguided."

[Barkoff]

242. Convince these people..

Maybe you should head on over here to where these gun loving rednecks hangout, try to convince them that the need for self protection is just a myth.

http://www.meetup.com/San-Jose-Pink-Pistols/

[TheCowsCameHome]

254. FUCK THE NRA

I love saying that.

It makes me feel gooooooooood all over.

[kestrel91316]

258. Time to put the NRA in our collective gunsights and not rest until

it no longer exists.

[napkinz]

260. kick

[Barking Spider]

264. fuck the NRA

just fuck 'em

[99Forever]

267. Fuck the NRA.

This positive message needs to keep kicked.

[napkinz]

268. new logo

http://www.facebook.com/NoTeaParty

[napkinz]

271. posted by Dalai_1

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022010523

[Magleetis]

274. They put their FB page

back up, and they are going to hold a press conference. Fuck you NRA!!!! Nobody cares what you have to say. You sorry fucks. Fuck you to hell!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

275. Bumping again.

Can't be said enough.

[Raster]

276. FUCK the NRA!

The blood of children is on their hands.

[napkinz]

277. KICK!

[napkinz]

278. one more time!

[ellisonz]

279. Kick