Anyone who is surprised that a FOX talking head got punched in Lansing today is a fool.

[Atticus]

I understand that at least part of the incident may have been due to paid provocateurs, but these people are playing with real fire.

The union members and their families understand that the cowardly craven bullshit rushed through the legislature by these lame ducks is a direct threat to the welfare of their households. Unions and their collective power are the only reason these folks enjoy a living wage with decent benefits. No corporation ever volunteered to provide a better life for working people. That standard of living was TAKEN---sometimes with strikes, sometimes with the threat of a strike and sometimes with pick handles and bare knuckles---from moneyed interests whose only goal was more and more profit.

You cannot expect to shit on people in the way that Snyder and friends just did and then expect them to treat you civilly. Is violence a good thing? No, but understand: right to work is unspeakably violent to the lives of union workers. To expect that to go unanswered is inexcusably ignorant of human nature and the passions these plutocratic whores have stirred up.

If workers in union shops stop paying dues, don't expect that to go unnoticed by the rank and file. Look for their cars to be decorated with spray-painted variations of "SCAB!" and "Freeloader!" Expect vandalism. Expect fistfights.

Snyder predicts an increase in jobs. I wonder will they be good jobs or minimum wage/no benefits employment like the ones Rick Perry has attracted to Texas?

If you stand across the street and insult me, I'll laugh it off.

If you threaten me at the mall, I'll try to walk away---maybe notify management or call the cops.

If you barge into my house and threaten anyone---I'm going to hurt you---BAD!

That's where this thing is headed. The Tea Party Nation has invaded sacred ground and is messing with the lives of people who have worked hard for all they have.

Stay safe and watch each other's backs.

[Mr.Bill]

1. You are right.

People died for the right to bargain collectively. This is going to get ugly.

[rwsanders]

9. One of the most frustrating things in most churches is to hear all the sermons about memorial day...

veteran's day, etc. and silence on Labor Day.
Thank God my wife and I found a church that doesn't go there for either.

[lexw]

23. ...and that's one of the reasons I stopped believing in that stuff.

[Xyzse]

46. It is why I am considering changing my religion to Jedi...

Some time soon.

[donnasgirl]

55. This is not

The time to become violent or stupid,this gentlemens reaction is exactly what the tea parties are expecting(Violence) if you want to kill somebody kill them with kindness.DO NOT FEED THE TEA PARTY BEAST

[Mr.Bill]

60. You are correct.

I don't advocate violence, but I fear it's coming.

[abelenkpe]

2. "No corporation ever volunteered to provide a better life for working people"

So true. This is why self regulation doesn't work. It's why privatization is a scam. We need stronger global unions to counter multinational corporations. And a FOX reporter? They are THE right wing corporate friendly mouthpiece...

[hedgehog]

3. look at the tape -

First off, it's clear that the Talking Head was breaching journalistic ethics by participating in the event - telling people to back away from the tent.

Second - there's an abrupt edit just before the fight starts. It looks to me like the physical part of the altercation started when the Fox talking head either tripped or shoved the union guy.

[Festivito]

34. I am told that the FOX guy TOOK A SWING at a protester.

If so, we will NEVER see the whole tape.

A protester was holding up his own driver's license to show he's from Michigan and asked the counter protesters to do the same. They wouldn't.

Probably sent in from a different state.

[HelenWheels]

62. Think he was pushed down

At the start of the tape it appeared the union man was getting up. So had he been pushed down? I hope someone with another video will come forth.

That little puke was strutting around like Danny from Grease with his collar turned up and chewing on a toothpick. I'd like to smack him one. He comes in to taunt people who are in danger of losing their job and life style, he got what he deserved.

[rDigital]

4. Thanks for not sugar coating our reality. We work hard and we bargain in good faith.

Our wages and benefits are hard earned over generations of contracts. This is our legislators pissing on us and taking bread out of our kid's mouths.

[Atticus]

6. I grew up thinking a picket line was a "pick it line" since Daddy always carried a pick handle when

he walked the line. Eventually, contracts were settled by negotiation instead of confrontation, but it never would have happened without at least the prospect of broken windshields and cracked heads.
I was taught that scabs are lower than whale shit---and you know where that settles.
Take care.

[jtuck004]

5. Was it a good lick?

Just a physics question...

[awoke_in_2003]

15. I hope so...

our rights as workers came because people were willing to fight for them. Hopefully the fighting will start before they all go away. Some may say I advocate violence, but you have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

[jtuck004]

29. 50 million in poverty, nearly that many on food stamps, 50,000 people a month being

yanked out of their homes while we file over a hundred thousand more foreclosures, 1 in 4 seniors with NO income other than an insufficient social security, 24 million people on the November BLS report state they want a job, and the latest JOLTS report says there are 3.3 million jobs available. Meanwhile we are paying $40 billion a month to wealthy people to keep their assets propped up, in hopes that their largess will tinkle down upon us. And kids are leaving school on Friday, won't eat 'till they get back Monday.

No need to advocate violence. It's being perpetrated on us already. And just because one is accused of advocating violence, that doesn't make the accuser a friend. Maybe they are just naive. Or maybe worse...

Malcom X said "Anytime a shepherd, a pastor, teach you and me not to run from the white man, and at the same time teach us don't fight the white man, he's a traitor, to you and me."

I am peaceful, respectful, and if it is part of a strategy that makes sense, even though the cost is high, I'm down for it. But when it's no longer time to be nice, or if it's just some naive fool's idea that it's how their world should look, then they are likely untrustworthy, as far as I am concerned.

The vultures screwed up when they killed the Twinkies, I think

[awoke_in_2003]

43. +1...

And to quote Bluto (John Belushi) from Animal House "what's all this lying around shit?"

[AnotherMcIntosh]

30. Nope.

He walked away without any bruises.

[Pacafishmate]

7. He's a douche and the video is heavily cut.

You can expect a douche like him to frame everything to make it look like he's an angel and the "union thugs" the aggressors. He probably did something off camera that he doesn't want us to see. Steven Crowder is a smug, unbearable asshole. He emanates an undeserved sense of self-righteousness that immediately makes any person want to punch him. I don't blame the union dudes.

[TheKentuckian]

8. It is so odd to me that anybody can't grasp the explosiveness of taking food out of

peoples mouths and putting hellish dents in their futures as well.

I also fail to grasp the naivety that these fuckers will be guilted into loosening the screws and maybe eventually give them up altogether.
People think they are negotiating and more foolishly think they are negotiating with someone more or less like them despite a world of evidence with thousands of years of supporting history.

[Pacafishmate]

11. He puts food into his mouth by taking it out of others'. The epitome of a parasite.

[TheKentuckian]

54. honest wages and decent benefits is taking food from someone's mouth?

[Pacafishmate]

61. I'm talking about Crowder. He's the one supporting right to work.

[TheKentuckian]

71. Gotcha

[pacalo]

10. "these people are playing with real fire": I couldn't agree more. It was my first reaction, too.

[totodeinhere]

12. I sympathize with what you are saying. But is it really wise?

The right is going to use this for their anti-union propaganda. They will say that this is proof that union members are violent thugs. The Drudge Report already has an article to that effect.

[Atticus]

13. The right is going to call union members thugs no matter what they do.

And, since when does anyone with a mind gauge their conduct by how it is received by Drudge?

Bottom line is we don't need to DO anything to get criticized by the wingnuts and their hirelings. They always have their "secret source" of information: they just make stuff up as it suits their purpose.

Understand, I did not advocate violence. I said it was very predictable, even understandable, given the provocation. I stand by that.

[Luminous Animal]

68. Yep. The right was calling union members thugs even while their hired goons were murdering them.

[backscatter712]

18. Fuck the right. If it's not this, they'll concoct some other bullshit for propaganda.

If they're going to hate us, lie about us and fuck us no matter what we do, I say it's time to give them a reason.

[awoke_in_2003]

20. If you haven't been paying attention...

for the last 30 years, the monied interests have been waging war on us. It is about time someone says enough is enough. Do some research on the labor movement- we only have the rights we do because people were literally willing to die to get those rights.

[lexw]

24. They already are, I see my FaceBook GOP friends jumping all over it.

But I wonder if it will back fire: the last election seemed to show that people are looking to unions again as they begin to see the face of the 1%. Which to me has always been invisible. Hell, when I looked up information about the Koch Brothers online a few years ago, I was hard pressed to learn anything. Now it's quite easy to find information about the creeps.

[HiPointDem]

35. taking people's livelihoods and property is violence. the wingers are violent every day of their

lives.

[rDigital]

14. K&R... and on to the greatest page. nt

[backscatter712]

16. After watching the video, I'm betting it was Crowder who got physical first.

Of course, they cut the part of the video out that shows exactly how the fisticuffs started. Hmmmm. But when the video cut from arguing to brawling, it was the union guy who was getting up after being knocked to the ground, and engaging in some righteous retaliatory violence.

[Common Sense Party]

27. Everybody has a videocamera in their phone nowadays.

Shouldn't there be some unedited footage out there?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

17. You get no disagreement from me. Too bad it wasn't Hammity or Dil'Doreilly himself. In

Hammity's case no matter where you aim you'll hit that gigantic Fred Flintstone head of his. It's even worse than Jay Leno's chin.

[tiredtoo]

19. K&R NT.

[ReRe]

21. Let's face it....

K&R

...It's all about CHEAP LABOR ! It's Milton Friedman's Disaster Capitalism. TPTB have been practicing for the past 50-60 years all over the world for just this moment here in the USA.

[mick063]

22. American labor historically doesn't take the Gandhi route.

I expect it will get brutal with the federalized police. There is a reason they created Dept. of Homeland Security and it isn't to stop foreign terrorism. It is to put down the working poor.

ALEC expects us to fund our own suppression with our health care and retirement money.


ALEC runs our daily lives and there is nothing we can do to stop it.

Or maybe there is..........

[defacto7]

25. The anger is righteous and expected....

All I have to say is... whatever people do... DO WHAT WORKS! not what makes you feel better. There are times when a fight is necessary, but if we choose the wrong fight and deal with it in a way that hurts the cause, it won't get you where you want to go.

FOX isn't worth it.

[Zoeisright]

26. My dad owned a small non-union company.

He did it by paying his workers very well ($50-60/hour for basic manual labor), giving them profit sharing (that amounted to hundreds of thousands for long-time employees), and excellent completely-paid-for benefits. He was one of the very few who did it right.

[DallasNE]

28. What Is Sick Is That

Probably 20% of the Tea Party are Union workers. What can they be thinking?

There needs to be laws that limit what can happen in lame duck sessions and it needs to spell out the kind of emergencies that can be dealt with in these lame duck sessions. And it needs to apply to all levels of government. I forget what the grotesque law was that was passed in December 2006, just before Republicans lost control of both branches of Congress but it haunts us to this day. In 2014 it is pretty likely that Democrats will win back control in Michigan but they won't be able to undo Snyder's mess because they won't have a super majority.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

31. Why would you think that "Probably 20% of the Tea Party are Union workers"?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

32. As you say, "If you ... I'm going to hurt you---BAD!" Since Crowder was not hurt, bad or otherwise,

shouldn't this raise a question as to whether this was just theatre?

The video shows, at most, one guy in a black cap swung that Crowder three times in anger and may have connected twice. Another guy grabbed Crowder's jacket collar from behind, but did not do any harm to Crowder.

Crowder's smile towards the camera at the end of the video shows that he wasn't hurt. He would not have given such a smile after an encounter with Jimmy Hoffa's Teamsters or after an encounter with the United Steel Workers during the 1959 strike.

No matter how much anger was displayed, no matter how much noise was created, that didn't do harm to Crowder. He was a willing participant.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

33. I am surprised... >:)

That some would risk breaking there hand!

Thank you! Thank you! Please remember to tip the waitstaff!


Note: The Fox guy was being stupid. He was lucky to have that happened instead of something worse.

[michigandem58]

36. You're pretty clearly condoning violence or at least "understanding" it

Hard to say what happened in the video. But that single incident aside, the tone of your post seems to condone a violent response, and I don't agree.

[Atticus]

40. Thank you so much for your obviously heartfeltconcern. nt

[Inkfreak]

42. You're welcome.

Last edited Wed Dec 12, 2012, 07:29 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm perfectly comfortable with my position of not punching people. Carry on.

[OldDem2012]

49. "You're" not "your". I'm comfortable with my position on spelling words correctly. Carry on,.....

....enjoy your stay, however long that might be.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

50. I am trained in Journalism, worked in a newsroom for 5 years.

We can push it to this point. And when one works for a news agency where the sales dept. is king, they are told to do things to cause something to "happen". The rule is not to be the news, that is when you have been able to keep the sales dept. out. They...well I think you know what I am getting at.


Sad part is, the Fox sales dept. want talk like this about the incident.
No such thing as bad publicity you know!

[Dustlawyer]

38. Don't fu*k with a man's lively hood! This is edited bull shit! Dare Fox to show it all!

[PeaceNikki]

39. FOX is onto something, I would watch "Punch the Fox News On-Air Talent " religiously.*

*stolen from Wonkette.

http://wonkette.com/492433/never-forget-union-thugs-push-down-koch-brothers-tent-punch-steven-crowder-in-face

[BainsBane]

59. make it pay per view

I'll sign up

[ellie]

41. Very well put

Do you mind if I use it?

[Atticus]

47. Of course you may use it. Thank you for asking. nt

[Festivito]

44. What? Is your premise here to hide that the FOX guy took a first swing?

And, then leave us and any other readers with violence being the answer?

Your example can go different ways. Barging in can be someone leaning forward, which should not involve hurting someone "bad". It can mean busting a door open, which can be a violent act that might involve endangering yourself or someone else. Violence protecting people is allowed under law.

Don't give the other side ammunition.

[Atticus]

48. Say WHAT?

Why would I want to "hide" that the FOX guy took a first swing? Is that true?

I know that the union guy appears to be getting up off the ground just before he popped the FOX jerk, but I don't know how he got on the ground. If I had to guess, I'd say that it was likely the FOX guy who pushed him, tripped him or hit him, but I don't have any proof of that. Do you?

As for "barging into my house"---what I actually said---meaning "someone leaning forward", I don't know what to tell you. Apparently, we speak different languages.

[limpyhobbler]

51. He was deliberately trying to provoke that reaction.

Whenever there is a big strike or labor action there are always a few mysterious clowns that show up to try to instigate, just like this. And they always have a buddy there with a video camera there to record it when it happens. This is textbook. They get in people's faces and taunt them.

[heaven05]

52. I'm

glad he got punched in the face and fuck pox news and their screaming. They are responsible for some bad things that are going to explode in this state and nation. How are they responsible? By lying to the LIV's and them believing enough of pox news lies and bullshit to vote against their own self interest But then again maybe that's the aim of pox news. Create civil war and hope the nazis win? End up the mouthpiece of the nazis? Just speculation so pox news keep it up. Idiots. We will see it all shake out. The time is coming where talk will be cheap.

[sulphurdunn]

53. Anyone who is called

a union thug should reply with, "Keep fucking with me, and you'll really see a union thug, cause you ain't seen nothin' yet." The election didn't change a thing. Unions don't have two or three years to see that. It's on now.

[Cobalt-60]

67. True

If they had actually encountered Thugs some or all of them would be room temp right now.

[drokhole]

56. Check out this tweet from that bloviating idiot...

From November:



He condones and encourages violence, then whines when he gets his ass handed to him. Classic republican behavior. Funny how he mentions "aggressively invading personal space" as justification for hitting some...which is exactly what him and his cronies were up to.

[Rocky888]

57. On Chris Mathews today

He has invited Him on his show to answer to the union bosses why he would do something that could bring negativity to their cause. He was almost rabid about the whole incident. And I'm thinking; are you really this shallow to not realize the emotions of theses people. He's getting as bad as huck Todd and David Gregory, getting callouses on his knees while slobbering all over Todd and Gregory's head climbing over them to eat at the koch trough. He is even starting to try and legitimize medicare and social security age increase to share in the sacrifice. You know, because we were given our share of all that profit over the last 2 years.

Oh, and get this, our Louisa Secretary of State is here in lee county, demanding answers to why people had to wit or up to 7 hours in line? Of course, this was in an affluent neighborhood!

[BainsBane]

58. Fox has long deserved far worse

They long ago declared war on working Americans. They do everything possible to take food out of people's mouths to give to the wealthy. Screw them. I don't feel badly at all for that Fox asshole.

[PatrynXX]

63. well why not

the cops punch out the media. I'd imagine the people who aren't also have feelings. I imagine though he was likely among some Republican union supporters and they just about had enough of Fox dragging them thru the mud. Think there's a large section that blames Fox for Mittens losing. Wonder why that is.

[struggle4progress]

64. Even in the tape FOX released, you can see the FOX guy getting into it with the union guy

I don't know what exactly happened, cuz I wasn't there and cuz FOX edited what tape they released

But I watched what FOX released and I can at least say honestly: takes two to tango

[standingtall]

65. I just rewatched the video

Crowder got the result he wanted. He was trying to stir up trouble. He was up in the face of several protesters. From the video it looks to me like the guy who punched Crowder looked like he was getting up. Which leads me to believe he was most likely pushed or even punched by most likely Crowder himself. After the punch Crowder didn't simply walk away instead he charged into the guy like he wanted a fight, because he did so he could have his talking point for faux news. The mistake the guy made was retaliating. I know some will say he would've been a pansy or coward if he didn't, but that approach would've been more courageous, and far more effective, and faux news wouldn't have their talking point.

I wish the guy would come out, and tell his side of the story so people can know what really provoked him. Or that that someone caught an unedited version of this on camera.

[Politicub]

66. The GOP took food from union members' children's mouths

Anyone would be angry. Violence isn't the answer but the GOP must understand they are gleefully destroying people's lives.

[NEOBuckeye]

70. Do you really think they care?

If they did, would they be pursuing such a nihilistic path that can ultimately only end in their own total destruction?

[Politicub]

72. No. I think the GOP holds union members and thier families in contempt.

And I'm hoping they've gone too far this time.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

69. K&R nt