General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLiberals vs. progressives: a progressive view
As I see it, the liberal viewpoint is to make minor tweaks around the edges of our existing system. Progressives look at the millions of Americans living in poverty, uninsured, hungry (er, I mean "experiencing food insecurity" and come to the conclusion that the entire system is broken and must be rebuilt, placing people above profits.
In concrete terms:
Liberals: Let's just get rid of the Bush tax cuts.
Progressives: Let's look at the capital gains rate and corporate taxes, too.
Liberals: Let's pass the HMO-friendly ACA.
Progressives: Single payer now!
Liberals: Let's take another look at that $100 billion fighter plane.
Progressives: End the war in Afghanistan, and don't start one in Iran or Syria!
Discuss.
william cail
(32 posts)Progressives want to get s**t done.
Liberals B***h and moan a lot.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)progressives want to get it done
but liberals actually do get it done by not letting the progressives bully them into being so absolute they end up losing everything
as they say
patience is a virtue
liberals know
10% of something is better than
the progressives who get 100% of nothing
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)My third way aunt and uncle would agree. It's been such a success if what you call success is moving our country to the right for my entire life leaving younger generations to work more for less.
patrice
(47,992 posts)exclusively to refer to DLC, but there is nothing about dialectics in and of itself that is necessarily DLC, right, or anything else.
1. Thesis -> 2. Anti-Thesis -> 3. Synthesis is an EMPTY process that can be applied to ANY content, and I do mean content, not just political labels. What a dialectic produces, the synthesis/the 3rd-thing or 3rd-term, depends upon the specifics of the interaction between the specific nature of the thesis and the specific nature of the anti-thesis, so since things/issues can interact in a variety of ways a variety of syntheses is possible.
A relatively useful model for what I'm referring to is to look at what goes on in courtrooms. Think of a that sort of thing in a larger, more complex environment with various levels or more or less public interaction and a wider variety of outcomes/third-things/syntheses.
In re DLC, and why some people hate the DLC, this translates to Dems interact with Reps and produce NAFTA, or DOMA, or the 2002 AUMF, or whatever.
forestpath
(3,102 posts)patrice
(47,992 posts)of the millions of people you are talking about well enough to put ALL of them into these over-simplified abstractions.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)just like, for instance, there are some repukes who are pro-choice. And even sane.
leftstreet
(36,111 posts)Some will agree with the descriptions, some won't
But everyone throws the terms around without describing them
DURec
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)graham4anything
(11,464 posts)without Nader, the 4 electoral votes in NH would have gone to Al Gore and Bush would not have taken office.
Florida would not have mattered at all.
If Nader were a science project, he would have proven his own science test.
3rd party for Presidents and Republican/libertarian/teas are to paraphrase Nader,one and the same. No difference. Whatsoever.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)he could have been effective, rather than destructive, if he'd run for Congress, or in the Dem primary, like Dennis Kucinich.
edit: I never said anything about a third party. I'm a progressive Dem.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Liberals are more pragmatic and progressives see the end but not how to get there.
msongs
(67,433 posts)comes action.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)All the greats were liberals (Lincoln/FDR/LBJ/Obama/Carter/JFK/Bobby/Teddy/Jerry Brown/Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson/Allard Lowenstein/Harry Chapin/John V. Lindsay
Liberals know slow and steady wins the race
barrelling forward, being absolute and rigid with no compromise, gets nothing but
fractured parties and losses in presidential elections
people are impatient
if it took 40 years to break the system, you gotta give it time to reset and reboot itself
and no, it may not be complete in our lifetimes, but who said it was suppose to be?
It's all a work in progress(forward liberalism) not yapping and losing because it happened too quickly.
and it takes a seed decades to grow into a majestic redwood.
standingtall
(2,787 posts)while moderates are something else altogether.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)What did the Progressive Movement accomplish in Wisconsin? During James Davidson's terms as governor, from 1906 to 1911, considerable progressive legislation was enacted, including laws proving for state control of corporation stock issues, an extension of the power of the railroad commission to regulate transportation, a fixing of railroad fares, and stricter regulation of insurance companies. The most important and influential progressive legislation, however, was passed during the next (1911) session, under the governorship of Francis McGovern. The 1911 legislature created the nation's first effective workers' compensation program to protect people injured on the job. It passed laws to regulate factory safety, encouraged the formation of cooperatives, established a state income tax, formed a state life insurance fund, limited working hours for women and children, and passed forest and waterpower conservation acts.
By the 1930s, when depression and unemployment dominated American public life, the assumptions of the Wisconsin Progressives had penetrated deeply into national politics. Much of Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal legislation was drafted by Wisconsin citizens, such as Edwin Witte (author of the 1935 Social Security act), who had been trained by Progressive Wisconsin economics professor John R. Commons. In fact, the momentum of La Follette and his allies rippled down through the decades into John Kennedy's "New Frontier" and Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society" programs.
Source: The History of Wisconsin vol. 4 (Madison: State Historical Society of Wisconsin); Kasparek, Jon, Bobbie Malone and Erica Schock. Wisconsin History Highlights: Delving into the Past (Madison: Wisconsin Historical Society Press, 2004); McCarthy, Charles. The Wisconsin Idea. Wisconsin Electronic Reader (online at http://www.library.wisc.edu/etext/WIReader/Contents/Idea.html)
patrice
(47,992 posts)while Progressives emphasize progress, i.e. change, but not just change for change's sake, but, rather, change that fundamentally improves elements that are part of a solution to some problem(s).