Better moderates like Crist become Democrats than launch a "Third Way" Party

[Tom Rinaldo]

The Republican Party has moved so far right that something has got to give, moderates can no longer continue to support it. Either they will move into the Democratic Party gravitational field or I predict there will be a major launching of a new Centrist political party within the next eight years.

Think how close that has come already since Perot ran the first time, and then Jesse Ventura got elected Governor. Think Colin Powell and Mayor Bloomberg. Think Arnie out on the West Coast and Lincoln Chaffee in the East. On our side look at Ben Nelson, and Evan Bayh and how close they might be to bolting. Remember how Lieberman won his last election.

I do not welcome new Democrats in name only into our Party, pure opportunists in other words, because they are a Trojan horse at best. But I prefer that sane independent oriented thoughtful moderates defecting from the Republican fold affiliate with Democrats than have a new powerful centrist movement emerge in American politics right now. When conscientious moderates leave the Republican Party, they tend to begin evolving toward increasingly progressive positions.

[Melinda]

1. Christ was a moderate? I thought him liberal! Who knew?

Jes pulling yer chain... it's mornin' mispellin' mayhem!!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. I always thought Christ was kind of a radical.

But I'm glad Crist became a Democrat.

[Tom Rinaldo]

3. Not according to many of his current followers, lol

I stupidly followed the lead of another OP's spelling of Charlie's name in mine. The power of suggestion I suppose. I would say lesson learned but I doubt it, I'm sure I'll do something dumb like that again soon enough

[Safetykitten]

4. So tell us of these "progressive" ideas of Mr. Crist. Please list.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. Jesus or Charlie?

[Safetykitten]

6. The Florida guy, I know that him becoming one of us is like the second coming.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. A careful reading of my post would reveal

that I wasn't claiming he was evidencing progressive ideals currently (though if you sift through his statements no doubt soem are scattered about - not all progressive ideals are rare or radical). What I said is that most conscientious moderates tend to start evolving in that direction once they are outside the Republican gravitational pull (and republican promary voters in particular). I didn't say Crist was a progressive or promise he would become one - but he now is subject to a different world of "peer pressure".

All of that is secondary however to my primary point about the potential for a new centrist third party if moderates don't move to the Democratic party.

[99Forever]

12. "*new*" centrist party?

That would be to the left of the current Democratic Party, correct? You know, the center-right one we have right now?

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. Touche! n/t

[Zorra]

9. *crickets*

edit: cuz there are none

[OldDem2012]

8. Historically, George Wallace probably had the best chance for the strongest third-party bid before..

....before he was nearly assassinated in 1972.

He had come in third for the 1972 Democratic Party nomination for President as a VERY conservative anti-integration candidate, and had won primaries in Alabama, Florida, North Carolina, Tennessee, Maryland, and Michigan. Prior to his being shot, speculation was very strong that Wallace would break with the Democratic Party and run as a third-party candidate. The concern among Democrats was the very strong chance that Wallace would carry the Deep South, along with a few states in the Midwest and West.

On the other side of the political spectrum, the GOP had a well-founded fear that as an independent Wallace would take enough right-wing voters from Nixon to allow McGovern to win.

Wallace was shot down in a parking lot in Maryland and Nixon went on to win a landslide victory.

[Zorra]

10. There's not enough of them to hurt the progressive wing of the Dem party or

form a cohesive Third Way party that would be any kind of threat any time soon.

The future is in democratic progress, centrists cause stagnation and regression.

I agree that centrists sometimes evolve toward progressive positions, but when they affect policy with their still conservative mindset they hold back our social, political, and economic evolution. If they would just vote Democratic and not hinder progressivism all would be well. But when they inflict their conservative nonsense on us through policy, they become another obstacle to overcome.

Reagan Democrats and republicans are the primary reason we are falling behind the rest of the world in so many areas. We are just now breaking free of 30+ years of devastating regressive damage to our country.

I am totally in favor of the Third Way party breaking away from our Democratic party.

[leftstreet]

11. Where is this 'progressive wing' of which you speak?

[Zorra]

19. It is the broad spectrum of Democrats who believe that the needs of human beings are more important

than the profit needs of wealthy private interests, and wish to see this belief and desire translated into policy.

That's actually the majority of us; unfortunately, it is the neo-liberal Third Way types who have the money behind them to run for office and get media attention who are too often elected and therefore maintain the status quo control of government and policy by wealthy private interests.

For example:

Who is it that has consistently allied with the GOP and prevented the Democratic party from drafting and/or passing progressive legislation?

DLC. Third Way. Moderates. Centrists. Blue Dogs.

Did/do the majority of the people of the US want a progressive universal public health care system? Yes.

Did we get it? Nope.

Why?

Because Blue Dog "Democrats" simply kept progressives from ever even bringing it to the table.

A Democrat can be "moderate" without being a wealthy private interest serving neo-liberal. Unfortunately, from my POV, we have learned to define "moderate Democrat" as a Democrat who places the interests of wealthy private interests over those of the people, rather than as a Democrat who may simply have a few conservative views on social issues such as on choice or gun control, and who is somewhat fiscally conservative economically without being a corporatist.

If the Third Way party split from the Democratic party, we'd see a large influx of Independents into the Democratic party, and possibly a substantial number of Greens as well.

It is the Third Way types who have led to the widespread perception that the Democratic party is really no different than the GOP. If the Third Way left the Dem party, the Democratic party would rapidly become the party of the people once again, with FDR era type majorities supporting us, because we'd be rapidly enacting and passing constructive legislation in accordance with the genuine majority will of the people.

We are seeing a rise in popularity of the Dem party right now, and this is largely due to Democrats taking progressive stands on issues. This is what the majority wants, and if Democrats continue to pass progressive legislation, we could crush the GOP and Third Way party into insignificance.

I fervently hope the Third Way party splits from the Dem party.

Good riddance.

It's exactly like FDR said back in the day ~

"In the century in which we live, the Democratic Party has received the support of the electorate only when the party, with absolute clarity, has been the champion of progressive and liberal policies and principles of government.

The party has failed consistently when through political trading and chicanery it has fallen into the control of those interests, personal and financial, which think in terms of dollars instead of in terms of human values...

...The Democratic Convention, as appears clear from the events of today, is divided on this fundamental issue. Until the Democratic Party through this convention makes overwhelmingly clear its stand in favor of social progress and liberalism, and shakes off all the shackles of control fastened upon it by the forces of conservatism, reaction, and appeasement, it will not continue its march of victory."

[Tom Rinaldo]

21. Your position is well stated

If we had a parlimentary system I would back your reasoning in a flash. Or even some time of instant run off electoral system in cases where no candidate gets a majority, but we have neither.

I think a day can and will come when progressive Democrats would become the leading political force if the U.S. develops the equivelent of a three Party system, right, left, and center, even with the current winner take all system for elections I think that it is a decade premature to think we would come out on top now though in that scenario. Right now I think the centrists would prevail and opportunistic Republicans would court alliances with them and cement a center right electoral majority that would be less progressive overall than current Democratic Party government under someone like Obama.

The fact that there isn't an obvious "third way" party for voters to back instead of the Democrats or Republicans forces voters to look harder at core differences between the left and right in deciding how to vote. I think a lot of people currently would prefer to simple default to backing "the reasonable center" than seriousloy go through that thought process.

A "third way" Party would not just pull from the Democrats of course, it would pull from traditional Republicans also. It could quickly become the most competitive Party if A Republican Civil war breaks out in ernest. It could cement a right leaning Suspreme Court in place for a new generation.

Like I said, this is my short term political read. Longer term I think you can be right, with an increasingly strong left leaning counter media growing through the internet - and even on cable, and shifting demographics given current trends. It is my pragmatic read that progressives will gain the upper hand in the Democratic Party even if more moderates flood toward it. I fear "the third way" short term, not long term. Short term though I think they could ultimately deliver the nation to the Right for another generation if that movement were to gain real traction now.

[Zorra]

26. And yours is as well. So I reckon we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

I firmly believe that we are in the early infant stages of a national progressive democratic transformation, and if we do not assiduously nourish and protect our precious baby, the Third Way will smother her in her crib at the first opportunity. They will certainly explore any and every opening to get to her.

Reaganism is dead. A new, and much better day, and world, is here, and in my opinion, we need to cull the throwbacks and seize the moment, move forward with the new agenda as fast as possible, and ensure that there can never be any turning back.

[leftstreet]

30. Oh, I thought you meant politicians not voters

I thought you were saying there was a progressive wing of politicians in the party

My mistake

[mmonk]

13. I prefer honesty. The Third Way pretends it is progressive when it is not.

It confuses the average person out there and allows propaganda such as 'government spending" and "liberalism" is how we got the financial sector collapse or higher unemployment.

[Nay]

15. Personally, I don't think this is a good trend. I see Republicans instituting a stealth policy of

infiltrating the Democratic Party from the bottom up and the top down, all the while keeping most of their antiquated ideas intact. I just don't see this going anywhere good.

Pubs don't like how radical their regular party is? Stay and change it. Don't pollute and dilute the party that (nominally) has been trying to counter your party.

I also don't have any idea why the dem party accepts these crossovers, either - like the traitor Lieberman, they won't feel any pressure to vote the party line, and they end up being impediments. Dems have 61 Ds in the House? Oh, not really --- cuz 6 of them always vote with the Republicans!!!

[Tom Rinaldo]

16. For the record, Lieberman moved the other way

He refused to respect the results of a Democratic Primary and ran on his own Independent Party then negotiated to caucus with Dems after having actually once been one. It is a very different flight path than the won Crist is now on.

[Nay]

17. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I know that Lieberman was not a Pub to Dem. But he's an example of

the type of Dem we don't need -- one who acts mostly like a Republican, and who was not spanked by the Dem party for doing so. IMO, we have to be very wary of accepting this sort of crossover because of the implications down the line. If the Dem leaders aren't willing to discipline the Dems who represent us, we end up being represented by Pubs with a 'D' behind their names.

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. Ed Schultz and Marcos from Kos are the types of Repubs to Dems we need

But people like that don't begin their journey as strong progressives, they usually start out as moderate Republicans, but in some cases even conservative ones, with an openess to re-examing their former positions in the face of new data and other viewpoints, and the courage to admit when they are wrong. I will gladly take the chance of inviting people like that into our Party and would just as gladly through out the blatant opportunists in our midst.

[NYC Liberal]

23. I agree with you 100%.

Moderate conservatives should be staying in the GOP. If more stay, the party can change.

Otherwise, the GOP becomes more extreme and the Democratic Party moves to the right as moderate conservatives join it.

We need balance with a center-left party and a center-right party, not a centrist party and a far right-wing party.

[Tom Rinaldo]

25. I would rather they stayed and fought in the Republican Party also

But we clearly can't make them do that. My OP was on the relative merrit of someone like Crsit becoming a Democrat rather than being drawn into any new national "third way" national political party. I suspect the tipping point inside the current Republican Party has already been reached and passed. Moderates who dared raise their heads have been fairly well purged. If the Republican Party changes now it is more likely it will "further "purify" conservative, and a rump moderate Republican Party would be consigned to the political wilderness for a decade if that party fractures. I think people like Crist and Chaffee and even Chuck Hagel are clearly reading that handwriting on the wall.

[Egalitarian Thug]

29. They instituted it in the 1980s. n/t

[rudycantfail]

20. Are you joking?

Why would the Third Way launch a new party when they have complete control of the Democratic Party?

[Tom Rinaldo]

22. I think you underestimate the degree of uncontested power they would prefer.

I think they think they can convince Chamber of Commerce types to shift away from the Republicans toward them if they were unhindered by progressives still in the Democratic Party.

[rudycantfail]

24. How did progressives hinder

the Third Way Democratic Party from doing just that with Crist? How are progressives going to stop that in the future?

[Tom Rinaldo]

27. Progressives can take control of non swing states and districts if we organize

Crist ran state wide in a swing state, but Democrats can elect more people like Elizabeth Warren. Barny Frank chaired the House Banking Committee that wrote the Dodd Frank bill that created the Consumer Protection agency that conservatives prevented Elizabeth Warren from becoming head of

Third way type Democrats do not have at total lock of the Democratic Party - they still have to contend with us - especially if they want the perks of being in the majority party. Like I wrote above, for better or worse I am trying to think strategicly. I think we can gain the upper hand in the Democrtic Party if we fight well over time given ongoing demographic changes. I think the emergence of a third way party right now would muddy that path forward for us.

[rudycantfail]

28. The Third Way is firmly in control

of the Democratic Party. I think that should be obvious by now. The Third Way gives lip service to progressive ideas at election time but their policies are centrist to conservative. They don't need to make another centrist-conservative party - they already have one. If a viable third party emerges, it will be on the left. A large and growing segment of Americans wouldn't just like to be represented, pretty soon they're going to demand it.

[bluestate10]

31. The Arc of the country's political thought is toward Progressive positions.

I don't expect that trend to stop. The Progressive position is the only true libertarian one, that is people should be allowed to do what they conscience lead them but have responsibility for maintaining a commonwealth for their own best interests.

[Prophet 451]

32. The Democratic Party IS the "Centrist political party"

That's why US politics is such a fucking mess: You have one centre-right party and one right-fringe/Fascist party. On some social issues, the Dems might be to the left (and barely in many cases) but on economic issues, the meat and bones of politics, they're firmly on the centre-right.

[bluestate10]

33. The move by Crist bodes well for the democratic party in the South.

There are republicans in the South that have been left out of their party. That is one big reason why Patrick Murphy, a socially moderate, fiscally conservative democrat won in a district that was crafted to elect only a republican. What the gerrymanders didn't take into account were the people who were registered republican but who were increasingly uncomfortable where their party was headed and who, on a personal level, no longer agreed with the positions their party took.

We should aggressively welcome those people into the democratic party, both in the South and the rural North. If our politicians lead well, those people will see that we were right and their views will trend Moderate-Progressive or Progressive.