"Krugman, Klein: Dems will cave on Medicare, raise age 2 years, raise taxes only slightly"

[applegrove]

Krugman, Klein: Dems will cave on Medicare, raise age 2 years, raise taxes only slightly

by Gaius Publius at Americablog

http://americablog.com/2012/12/medicare-eligibility-age-raise-grand-bargain-fiscal-cliff.html

"SNIP..............................................


Ezra Klein says that the shape of a fiscal cliff deal is clear: only a 37 percent rate on top incomes, and a rise in the Medicare eligibility age.

I’m going to cross my fingers and hope that this is just a case of creeping Broderism, that it’s a VSP fantasy about how we’re going to resolve this in a bipartisan way. Because if Obama really does make this deal, there will be hell to pay.



............................................SNIP"

[byeya]

1. I hope that this is only a way to put pressure on Pres Obama and the Democrats and not a

product of inside information.

It would be intolerable if true.

[pnwmom]

56. Krugman's not reporting this. He's only repeating Klein's claims. n/t

[Cleita]

2. If they do they are going to see the Occupy movement erupt everywhere and on steroids.

Wait and see.

[former-republican]

6. Occupy movement?

"hell " most of the party is going to turn their backs to him.

[virgogal]

33. And why would he care? He's in for 4 more years.

[bvar22]

61. Abd the Republicans are scheduled to retake the White House in 2016 anyway...

... under the Power Sharing Agreement of 1992.

[former-republican]

3. I seriously can't understand why the President would do this?

Why does he think he had so much support in this election?

This was one of the key issues.
Protect Social Security and Medicare.

What is he thinking.......

I really hope he doesn't do this.

[fascisthunter]

26. because he believes and wants the same thing as the republicans

but politically, he must ease the masses into accepting it. Sorry, but actions will always speak louder than words. If he goes through with this as stated, it's because he wanted it. Don't believe the garbage about negotiating.

[SammyWinstonJack]

45. Wants it, pushes for it and WILL have it.

I want to know what his and his family's shared sacrifice will be?

As if!

[fascisthunter]

50. same thing his avid well off poster do

nothing

[Jakes Progress]

41. I think we have to face it.

Our president is a reagan-democrat.

Not when he campaigns of course. But if he capitulates once again, it isn't really capitulation. It will be because what he gets is what he wants. We can't just blame his advisors (most are centrists and corporatists) any more. He's had time to get rid of them. We can't blame his inexperience. He's had time to learn.

This time tells us who he is and what he stands (or doesn't stand for).

[senseandsensibility]

4. This is all starting to sound painfully

familiar.

[newfie11]

12. Yes it is

I hope it doesn't happen.

[AgingAmerican]

66. Unfortunately you are correct

It looks like the Republicans will win again.

[crazyjoe]

5. it's naive to think a politician will do after the election what he

said he would do before the election.

[former-republican]

10. Then he deserves no support on anything anymore

I still don't think he's going to turn on the people that busted their butts to reelect him.

I don't want to believe it

[Vincardog]

7. If this is true, it is time to admit that there can be no relief using the electoral process.

[limpyhobbler]

8. Is it not amazing we vote people but we still have no idea where they stand on these

important issues?

Candidates should have to take a position on that before we vote for them.

[ProSense]

9. Krugman said no such thing:

(that is he didn't claim "Dems will cave on Medicare)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021943877

And the OP is exactly as the first comment at the link suggests: "A lot of people are flapping around trying to make it look 'inevitable.'"

[enlightenment]

13. Trying reading the article.

The headline is as the OP wrote it - the text is as it was copied.

Krugman was remarking on what Klein said.

As for the rest - yes, we all know that you'd wait for the house to burn down before you admitted there was a fire, but this is a discussion board. Sometimes people will discuss things that haven't happened yet.

[ProSense]

15. I read the fucking article.

OP title: "Krugman, Klein: Dems will cave on Medicare, raise age 2 years, raise taxes only slightly"

Krugman said no such thing.

The OP title doesn't say:

Krugman: Klein says Dems will cave on Medicare, raise age 2 years, raise taxes only slightly

Even that would be inaccurate because it pushes the false claim Klein makes.

It's a shitty title, a shitty claim, and deserves to be slapped down.

[brentspeak]

20. For the record

will you state, categorically, that Obama will absolutely not raise the Medicare eligibility age?

The ball is in your court.

[ProSense]

22. "For the record"

will you state, categorically, that Obama will absolutely not raise the Medicare eligibility age?

The ball is in your court.

How the fuck would I know what Obama is going to do?

But OK, here's the statement you want: Obama will absolutely not raise the Medicare eligibility age.

Now what?

Does that mean, the "ball is in your court"?

Does that mean we can all go home because I said that?

Ridiculous.

[JoePhilly]

27. Folks like you have been making this prediction

For about 3 years or more.

It has not happened, won't happen now, and in 4-6 months, it will be predicted again.

[WinkyDink]

49. Irrelevant riposte.

[Barack_America]

24. "Krugman, quotes Klein, who says...." just didn't have the same ring to it.

[markpkessinger]

16. Split hairs much?

Krugman is obviously concerned that Klein's analysis may be correct, or else who wouldn't have mentioned it, pointing out that "there will be hell to pay" if the President makes such a deals. Using the phrase, "Dems will cave on Medicare" in a headline is a mere paraphrase of what Krugman is saying. You're grasping at straws trying to defend the indefensible.

[ProSense]

19. It seems that people

love to repeat baseless claims. Krugman's point

"Using the phrase, 'Dems will cave on Medicare; in a headline is a mere paraphrase of what Krugman is saying."

No he isn't. Krugman's point is not that "Dem will cave,' it's that the proposal is idiotic.

I’m going to cross my fingers and hope that this is just a case of creeping Broderism, that it’s a VSP fantasy about how we’re going to resolve this in a bipartisan way. Because if Obama really does make this deal, there will be hell to pay...Second, why on earth would Obama be selling Medicare away to raise top tax rates when he gets a big rate rise on January 1 just by doing nothing? And no, vague promises about closing loopholes won’t do it...So this looks crazy to me; it looks like a deal that makes no sense either substantively or in terms of the actual bargaining strength of the parties.

That's his point.

[rudycantfail]

38. The proposal certainly is idiotic

as I'm sure you and every thinking person would agree. But Krugman's point isn't that it's so idiotic that Obama won't do it. Krugman's point is that it's idiotic but Obama may do it anyway and that it doesn't make sense. When Krugman says,

"I’m going to cross my fingers and hope that this is just a case..."

clearly he's not sold that Obama won't do it. Given Obama's track record, can you blame him?

[sabrina 1]

63. But he feels he has to 'cross his fingers' so he doesn't sound too certain does he?

Nor should anyone be surprised since Obama never made a clear statement, such as those made by eg, Bernie Sanders, regarding Medicare. Airc whenever he was asked about Social Programs he was evasive when it came to Medicare. Frankly I think the deal was already made which is why Axelrod stated, incredibly btw, that 'we will not be talking about SS during the election'. What utter arrogance.

And they've already cut SS by cutting in half the Cost of Living increase for next year. Why was that necessary? The SS fund has more than enough money in it to keep the 3% rate. This is how they do it, a little bit at a time, under the radar, hoping no one will notice.

So they've taken away from the elderly, the disabled and children. Now what are they going to take from the rich? Making them pay some taxes for a change? Well that should have happened at least two years ago. We remember what happened with that also, during the Lame Duck Congress. They kept Gays in the Military on hold to use as an excuse for extending the Bush Tax Cuts and they thought we didn't notice.

Well those days when we were all blinded by fear of the Republicans that we missed so much that was going on in our own party, are gone. The people ARE noticing, every little deception.

[Cha]

37. Thanks for bringing some enlightenment to the

thread, ProSense.

[Jakes Progress]

42. Now that's funny.

[enlightenment]

11. I'm with Krugman - fingers crossed that this is

just talk.

Otherwise, they need to change the definition of "compromise" to "see: capitulation".

[pnwmom]

57. The headline distorted this, since Krugman, as you say,

isn't reporting that this is true -- just that he hopes it's not true.

[RomneyLies]

14. If that happens, I will have to leave DemocraticUnderground

I would no longer be able to support the Democratic Party if they cave on Medicare age.

[Samantha]

36. I don't think you have to be a Democrat to post here, just a progressive

and I have seen some openly moderate Republicans post here, not lately, but it has happened. I believe one cannot belong to another party and support a candidate from that party at this site. DU only supports Dems for office.

I probably didn't phrase this too well, but check out the rules. I think you could become an Independent and still belong.

Sam

[grahamhgreen]

17. No gets us 39% on the wealthy. This is an insult to all working Americans.

[elehhhhna]

18. not gonna happen

[cthulu2016]

21. I know it isn't your headline, but it is misleading and you should change it

Ameriblog fucked up here. The headline implies that Krugman is one of two voices making that prediction. He is not. Krugman linked to the Ezra Klein post unde the headline: "I Hope This Isn’t True"


Again, Paul Krugman has not in any way predicted that this will be the deal.

[rudycantfail]

39. Right

Krugman thinks the proposal is idiotic and hopes Obama won't do it but isn't convinced he won't.

[Nye Bevan]

23. If "hell to pay" means "media roundly applauds bipartisan compromise",

then that is probably an accurate prediction.

[Oilwellian]

25. There are a LOT of Democrats, on record, calling for the same thing

I am forever enshrining them altogether in one video, for all to see. The Third Way have been very busy bees.

[woo me with science]

30. Thank you for your excellent work in exposing the sellouts and infiltrators

within our party.

[KoKo]

44. Thanks..! n/t

[sabrina 1]

65. You are absolutely right. The Third Way has the Big Lie posted on their website. They

are claiming that SS and Medicare DID help cause the Deficit. Are THEY stupid or do they think WE are stupid? To tell that lie outright at this point when the public knows so much more than they ever did about this, is simply stunning.

Check it out, the lie, even about the numbers. For the record, SS can pay out all of its obligations 100% for the next 75 years even if the economy remains bad, which is unlikely, and even if it takes in less than it pays out. Because they prepared for the boomers. But see how they muddle the facts, just like Republicans. In fact if I did not know who they were, I would think I was reading from a Republican Think Tank.


http://content.thirdway.org/publications/609/Third_Way_Memo_-_Six_Facts_about_a_Grand_Bargain.pdf

With the D after their names, they sound more convincing. Thanks to people like Bernie Sanders their deceptions are obvious though.

Would love to see that video when you are finished.

[Jackpine Radical]

28. Peeps, if dis comes down like da Krugmeister says,

I tink the Demmycrats & I may be headed for a breakup in a 45-year relationship.

[dembotoz]

32. dat be the truth-dat is

[coalition_unwilling]

29. I'll be leaving the Democratic Party for good if a deal to raise Medicare eligibility age is

jammed down our throats to further the interests of the global 1%.

[decayincl]

58. If this goes down

we will be out in force. Some of us can still walk; some use canes or walkers; others are in wheelchairs. But, we will make a lot of noise. The least we can do to register our protest would be to un-register as Democrats. 45 years for me too. Dems give in on this and the party has lost its soul and several coming elections. Defeat from the jaws of Victory has been the Democratic battlecry for too long.

If we don't end this crap now, it won't get better in this geezers lifetime. Make yourself heard NOW.

[coalition_unwilling]

62. While my threat\ultimatum still stands as posted, after I posted it, I realized

that the OP was re-publishing an incredibly misleading and inflammatory headline.

To wit, only Ezra Klein said he had 'heard' that raising the Medicare eligibility age would be part of a deal. Krugman did not 'hear' that rumor, but only repeated what Klein had said. Whether what Klein claims to have 'heard' has any credibility is, of course, central to the issue. I now believe that Klein was hearing third-way douchebags talking but not hearing anything official out of the Obama administration.

That said, I simply cannot believe that Obama & Co., now having Boner, McChinless and their ilk on the mat with feet firmly on their necks, would seize defeat from the jaws of victory, in the process fucking over the entirety of the Democratic base.

[Earth_First]

31. ...then we'll be sold a bill of goods by fellow DU Democrats on why this compromise was necessary

in order to have greater leverage on the single payer issue later in the term.

[Swede Atlanta]

34. If they do...bye-bye now...

I will not support a Rethuglikkkan but I will never contribute another penny to any Democrat nor vote for any Democrat. They will be dead to me.

I hope we find a way to communicate this to them because for me it is GAME OVER.

I didn't give much...about $750.00 to Democrats this time around and spent about 20 hours doing phone calls and other activities but if they cave they get ZERO, ZERO, ZERO.

[Marr]

35. Bookmarking.

This sounds all to believable, and quite in line with Obama's past maneuvering.

[rudycantfail]

40. Interesting

account of how the process is taking shape.

[brokechris]

43. how reliable is this? nt

[jpak]

46. Dumb second-hand speculation and douchebaggery

yup

[janx]

47. Yes. It is all heavy speculation.

A misleading headline, for starters, and then Americablog quotes Krugman, who addresses speculation by Ezra Klein, who quotes Jonathan Chait.

These pundits are making my head spin!

[Egalitarian Thug]

52. Since you're so certain that this not going to be what happens, how about backing it up with

something significant?

[sendero]

48. I hope he's wrong..

.. but looking at Obama's history doesn't help me hope too much.

[doc03]

51. Even if we go back to the full tax rate on the rich they

will still be paying less tax than under Clinton. They would still get the tax break on their income under $250,000. If Obama agrees to raise the age on Medicare the Democrats will own it. Obama made the $716 billion cut in Medicare the Republicans wanted and they used it to win take the House in 2010. GHW Bush tried to pass NAFTA and failed then Clinton was able to get enough Democrat votes to get it passed. Now Clinton owns NAFTA, when will Democrats ever learn you can't make a deal with these scum bags.

[Egalitarian Thug]

53. I think you are assuming that the parties want different things. n/t

[democrattotheend]

54. Krugman did not say they WILL cave

He said he is afraid they will cave. The Americablog headline is misleading.

Yes, we need to mobilize - this is a rally call. But you are reporting it as if it is a done deal. All we have is Ezra Klein speculating - not even citing anonymous White House sources.

[virtualobserver]

55. Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!

Obama is holding all of the cards.....and the Republicans are on the verge of self destruction.

Obama didn't work his ass off for two years to get re-elected in order to cave.

[libdem4life]

59. The corporations are buying the Inaugural Coronation along with the next four years.

The piddly little contributions of the unwashed masses just won't cover the tab. That pretty much covers it, in my estimation.

[shrdlu]

60. Man-up, Mr. President...

...What I sent The White House:

Please tell me the president is not contemplating raising the eligibility age for medicare. To do so would be a stunning betrayal of the trust placed in him by his reelection. If he caves on a fundamental issue of his party, then he can expect even stronger GOP resistance for the duration of his term. The voters have saved him from being a one-term president. He must save himself from becoming a lame-term president. He should man-up and dance with who brung him.

[creeksneakers2]

64. Last time Obama entertained the idea

it was to take place over 40 years. It wasn't as drastic as it sounded.

[AgingAmerican]

67. Ummmmm.....

Republicans should be begging Obama to not raise the margin tax rates to 91% on the millions they made like Eisenhower did back when the whole concept of sociopathic-criminal plutocracy was a structural impossibility in America. Instead, we’re being prepared for Democrats trading away pieces of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid in return for… for what? The temporary Bush tax cuts that are due to expire on December 31 anyway?

Ugh

[kentuck]

68. Bingo!

That seems to be the case. It's all a kabuki to make Bush taxcuts permanent.