Just watch a story on the CBS Nightly News about a family making $64,000 -&100,000 being so upset

[Lady Freedom Returns]

over the rise in Taxes. I am sorry, some of their argument is lame. My family had to live off welfare after my mother got sick and my father broke his back on the job trying to pay my mother's health bills. He literally broke his back and it took 7 years to get the settlement for wrongful firring, but that is another story.
$600 dollars a month was what we had to live off of. That is why I was determined to get an education.
However part of the grip for this family was about the inability for one of the kids to keep piano lessons.

Since it was just aired, I haven't found the link yet. Will add when i find it. Or if someone else can find it before me please post!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Their taxes won't go up at all!

The proposed increase is ONLY on the marginal rate ABOVE $250,000.00. There will be no increase on the first $250,000.00 for anybody. If this family makes $100,000.00 they will not be affected AT ALL.

People are so damn dumb sometimes....

[liberal N proud]

4. That does not stop the ignorant from peddling the propaganda

They believe the bullshit lies and repeat them.

[southernyankeebelle]

15. I was going to say the same thing. They are just yapping because they can. Dumb people

[Springslips]

26. Well they will for a little bit

If we go over the cliff.

Of course, we can then cut middle class taxes and make it retro-active.

Did CBS make this distinction clear on the show? If not, they suck at journalism.

PS: Their first world problems give me a bad taste too. Even if their taxes go up, this would be a good lesson for the children to make choices: piano lessons or less toys for Christmas? Believe it or not, sacrificing one thing, say extra toys, will make piano lessons more valuable. Would also do a lot to stifle narcissism and entitlement.

[Mojorabbit]

28. Were they worried about the alt minimum tax?

I think that is supposed to go up if nothing is done and that will affect a lot of people.

[Matariki]

66. And I'd bet money CBS didn't correct this falsehood.

[0rganism]

70. payroll taxes are due to go back up

That's the tax most of us are going to feel more than anything else, especially people making under $100000.

[leftstreet]

2. So you want this family to live on $600 a month?

Because you had to?

Working class solidarity - ya gotta love it

[Selatius]

7. I believe the original intent of the poster was to cite excess and the complaint of losing it.

Take the family's griping that they won't have the extra cash for piano lessons.

When I learned piano as a kid, for instance, I did it on my own without paying money to a tutor or spending it on classes. My mother wouldn't allow for such expenses having had to raise my sister and I on her own without the aid of a deadbeat husband.

That family cited is still in a great financial position even if the United States reverted back to the Clinton-era tax rates. Quite a lot of people, on the other hand, don't even have a job or a home. Yet they're worried about losing the little things?

Ideally, we wouldn't be in this situation. If the Repubs were reasonable, they'd be open to keeping the tax cuts for income earners under 250,000, but they seem dead set on keeping all the cuts for the rich.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

8. Thank you Selatius

That is exactly what I mean.

The worst part is that they are on the news acting as if it is a disaster!

[AlexSatan]

18. Yet there are people who make their living as piano teachers

Guess they should look for other jobs?

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. Really?

[AlexSatan]

55. Yes, really

[abelenkpe]

56. Don't worry

The complaining family can still afford the piano lessons. They are just misinformed.

[AlexSatan]

58. I realize that

It is just the mindset of poo-pooing things that might be important to others just because it is not important to you (not you specifically, but the poster) that bugs me.

Thanks though!!

[frylock]

62. what are you doing to help ensure that piano teachers are employed?

[gollygee]

24. I'd rather not make my daughter give up her piano lessons

that would be a huge disappointment for her.

So because it's possible to survive on very little, everyone should survive on very little? Sounds like the neo-cons.

[The Magistrate]

31. On The Courteous Assumption, Ma'am, You Are Not Just Being deliberately Obtuse Here

The point is that for those who do have to live on much less, and are expected, to put it bluntly, to do so without complaining about it, this kind of whining rings tinny and false upon the ear. Indeed, it rings false and tinny, and ought to ring false and tinny, to anyone with much economic awareness or liberal sympathies.

[gollygee]

32. See my post #29

We don't need to help the Republicans with this talking point that "people can survive on less, so you don't need what you have." Wages should be increased. We don't need a race to the bottom.

Better yet, read post #33.

[The Magistrate]

37. We Are In Agreement Wages Should Be Higher, Ma'am

That does not address the point at hand here, though, which is that people will generally be unmoved when persons whose income is two or three times their own complain of straightened circumstances. It is unreasonable to expect otherwise.

[gollygee]

38. Is your assumption is that they are whining and not just explaining what the tax cut means to them?

The news programs are asking people of various incomes and situations what it will mean to them so they show a cross section of the country. This family is just telling their story.

[The Magistrate]

41. Short Of A Certain Threshold Of Real Suffering, Ma'am, All Complaint is Just Whining....

"I felt badly that I had no shoes, until I met the man who sold them."

[gollygee]

43. Were they complaining or just answering a question?

I think that's an unfair characterization.

News program comes and asks you, "If you have $3,000 less a year, what will you do?" You answer truthfully, just to answer. That isn't a complaint. It is just answering the question.

[The Magistrate]

48. Perhaps That is The Case, Ma'am

I do not think either of us have seen the program, I have not, certainly. The O.P. may not have characterized the matter correctly.

[AlexSatan]

60. Is that an Al Bundy joke?

Please define "Real Suffering"

American "Real Suffering" or world-wide (3rd-world) "Real Suffering".

[AlexSatan]

35. And discounting things like piano lessons

because you don't count on that income from them or don't value them for your kids rings of a race to the bottom and you getting to choose what activities and professions are important.

As the other poster said, sounds like you are support a RW talking point.

[The Magistrate]

39. You A Funny Fella, Sir

Hang in there with that 'you're supporting a right wing talking point' line, and I will even spot you a 'you must think you're better than everyone else' refrain, just to keep things going....

[AlexSatan]

44. Thank you sir, may I have another?

It just kills me when people say "I didn't have that so you don't need it" forgetting that there is often a middle-lower class person's job behind that thing they are willing to sacrifice or discounting that some people have different abilities than other wrt teaching themselves things like piano.

[The Magistrate]

46. Not If You Do Not Hold Up Your End Better, Sir

If you cannot keep me entertained, there is no reason for me to continue any interest in engaging you; I do have other amusements readily available, one or two of which have dead-lines....

[AlexSatan]

47. Unless those dead-line

are within the next minute, you have plenty of time....

[The Magistrate]

51. But Why Should Any Of It Be Focused On You, Sir?

That is the question you are failing to provide any compelling answer to....

[AlexSatan]

59. Mainly because of my awesomeness

You will become a better person for merely interacting with me. (Awesomeness is dusty and often rubs off)

[tkmorris]

67. There are people who make gold plated toilets as well

However, if anyone I know were to complain that they could not afford one my first thought would not be to worry over the livelihood of commode platers. Playing at "Devil's advocate" can be a useful tool, but in this case it falls flat.

Apt username for the debate style though!

[AlexSatan]

72. I prefer to be concerned about all jobs

but it is your right to believe some are not worthy of keeping.

[leftstreet]

50. What then of the working class piano teacher?

As we're flung into the Austerity Abyss, who determines which of our labors are excessive or frivolous?

I take your point that to a homeless or jobless person these complaints may sound unreal. Sadly, that's often the intent of these articles and stories found in the OP. Divide/conquer. And it's just going to get worse.

[frylock]

64. and what of the BMW salesperson?

[leftstreet]

65. Yes, that person is also working class

um...not sure of your point?

[bluestateguy]

3. So what is your point?

I am not seeing it.

Although, one might suspect that you think all taxes should go up on January 1st.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

9. See post #7

Selatius explains it better than I did/could.

[Lightbulb_on]

22. I suspect that the point...

... is that since he suffered, anyone who has more than X has no right to complain.

[pnwmom]

5. What rise in taxes? It won't happen unless we go over "the cliff,"

and even then, they'll most likely fix the problem retroactively for the under $250K families.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

12. That is another thing about the report that drove me nuts.

It was as if the the cliff was already on them. The whole thing did not not make as much sense as it should have when in comes to reporting.

[Selatius]

14. I like to call it propaganda by omission. You report one fact and leave out several others.

You can paint a false picture and yet still not technically be guilty of lying. At most, you could be accused of an oversight but little more.

[Poll_Blind]

6. May or may not apply, but I was listening to Democracy Now! and heard...

...a song which puts everything in perspective. It's called "First World Problems"- e.g. the 'problems' one faces living in a first world country. Of course, even in my own little town, there are people who are ticked off an angry because their wi-fi signal is cutting out, while others are similarly depressed...because they have no where warm to sleep tonight.

PB

[Comrade_McKenzie]

10. Boohoo. Most my family lives on less than half of that.

Fuck 'em.

[AlexSatan]

19. I know people who make live on a quarter of that

So they say FU to your family and their excesses.

[Ikonoklast]

21. Are you their spokesperson?

Bet you have a Black friend, too.

[AlexSatan]

23. Wow! Nice distraction!

And yes, I am the self-appointed spokesman of my poorer friends. But I probably didn't do a good job since they don't seem to hate everyone who makes more than them or begrudge families who pay for piano lessons for their kids.

But we all know I made my point and that is all that matter.


But for the record, I have quite a few.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. I believe that there exists a family that is so poor they are dying of starvation.

So until we are all so poor that we are all dying of starvation, fuck all of us.

This is how our masters manage to get the peasants fighting over the crumbs. Austerity is imposed on us by getting us to fight each other of which of us gets more of the shaft.

This cliff, this mother fucking cliff, doesn't even exist. There is no cliff. It is a fiction that congress can do away with tomorrow. It is being used to bludgeon us into accepting cuts in medicare, cuts in social security, increases in taxes on working people, and little or no effective tax increases on the elites who have enjoyed an unprecedented 30 year ride on our backs.

[gollygee]

34. Thank you!

There is no cliff and we don't need to use their false "cliff" scam to chase each other down to lower wages.

[AlexSatan]

36. +1 for the first part

As for the cliff not existing, try explaining that to all of the middle class DoD contractors who will not have jobs come 1 Jan.

[Warren Stupidity]

49. You do understand that it is not actually going to happen, right?

There will be a resolution at the last moment that pushes the edge of the cliff out. That will then become institutionalized as are continuing resolutions for the budget and resolutions to raise the debt ceiling. This is a game being played to convince us to take the medicine.

[AlexSatan]

54. Perhaps

but by claiming there is not cliff, it takes away the urgency/need to come to a resolution.

Frankly I thought they would come to a resolution long ago so the sequestration wasn't even a possibility.

If the Rs completely refuse to give any, do you support the Ds giving in? If not, the cliff may indeed happen because I really can see the Rs refusing to raise taxes as is needed.

[leftstreet]

45. +1

Nicely stated

[Ikonoklast]

63. You are so awesome.

I want to take you home and stuff you full of cookies and milk.

[Codeine]

11. They haven't had their taxes increase, at least not those originating at the Federal level. nt

[FredStembottom]

13. Oh, holy crap!

It's easy to live on that. Easy. You just don't get a 8000 sq ft McMansion with a 3car garage to put the speed boat in.

That's all.

[surrealAmerican]

16. Why would the child's piano lessons be the first thing they would cut?

Surely they could put off taking a vacation or eating out or something. It sounds like their priorities might be screwy.

[Mariana]

68. It's a bullshit temper tantrum.

"If my taxes go up, I'm going to take it out on my child! So there! Plus, I'll make her hold her breath until she turns blue!"

So the kid will suffer and it will be all our fault. We're supposed to feel guilty. It didn't have that effect on me, I just think they're shitty parents if that's the first thing that comes to their minds.

[jberryhill]

17. Wrongful firring is hard to fix

If the taper is put the wrong way, water won't drain properly.

[closeupready]

20. No sympathy for them.

None.

[leveymg]

27. The OP strikes me as peddling a red-herring to spread a false meme that middle-class taxes will rise

Your concern is noted.

[gollygee]

29. The execs at Hostess follow that same kind of logic

"People survive on $20k. Why are you complaining about having your salary cut from $35k to $25k. You're doing better than lots of people."

We don't have to do their work for them. We should be demanding better wages for people, not agreeing that people have the ability to live on less, therefore they should.

[Sunlei]

30. think I found the article, was the only recent google with CBS and piano words in it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57557410/va-family-fiscal-cliff-bickering-hurts-real-people-outside-d.c--bubble/


The Bush tax cuts will expire, then the wealthy and everyone else will pay more taxes. This family will pay about 3k more **if the only action that happens** is the Bush tax cuts expire.

That is why today President Obama keeps asking Americans to push Congress into signing a new tax break for people making their first 250k a year.

The new tax bill is needed from Congress so anyone making less than 250,000 will have the same income tax as today.

When you read the story this family expressed what 3k in more taxes means to them..it means cutting out a family luxury like piano lessons. personally if I needed to cut 3k from a family budget fast cell phones and cable TV would go first. That's more than 3k a year for most families.

[Mariana]

69. But the parents couldn't watch Fox News if they turned the cable off.

They have to have priorities, you know.

[Sunlei]

71. fox lies is on 'free TV' too, those who do not have cable are a huge propaganda target.

[Mariana]

73. Is it? Wow, I'm fortunate, then.

I don't have cable, or any equivalent thereof, and I can't get Fox News on my teevee. When my parents visit me, I swear my dad goes into withdrawal. There is a Fox network channel, but it isn't the same thing at all.

[JoePhilly]

40. Its the media trying to scare the middle class into allowing the cuts for the top 2%

to stand.

[The Magistrate]

42. Exactly, Sir

[libodem]

52. I used to have a breakdown

Of the tax savings and the less you made the less it benefited you. Like enough for one pizza per week for middle income workers.
It was tens of thousands for the really rich bastards.

[OldHippieChick]

53. Only people who already have much think they are entitled

to keep it. Perhaps the more we have the more we think we are entitled to keep. Greed and selfishness are not restricted to the uber-wealthy. We all need to take a step back and realize that one child's piano lessons may pay for another child's food. All "things" look different in perspective. What this family would sacrifice with the loss of 2K is not the same as one making less, but to them it seems large. I'm sure they didn't mean to sound petty. Nor do I think the poster meant to sound as if we should all be struggling on $600. But we do all need to put "things" in perspective.

[gollygee]

61. Piano lessons are greedy?

Really? You think we need to tax middle class families so they can't afford piano lessons, to pay for other children's food? No comment on the ultra-rich. Nice.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

57. Sounds like someone is overpaid....