Atrios Nails It: Teachers Are Sick Of Being Dumped On

[proud2BlibKansan]

<skip>

Dear lord, I feel this just about every damn day I open the paper or turn on the cable box or read some dumb-ass nonsense from some think-tanky blogger somewhere.

I know I'm not perfect. Everyone I've ever worked with knows they're not perfect. Every teacher I've ever had more than a passing conversation with knows we're not perfect. We want to get better. We know how high the stakes are - dear God, please stop telling us how high the stakes are, we get it already.

We're the ones who have to look into these kids' faces every day. We're the ones who have to call home when there's a problem. We're the ones who have to put that grade on the report card. You think we don't want to give everyone an "A"? You think that wouldn't make our lives easier?

We know there are slackers - do you think we're happy to work with these people? Of course we want them gone, but you know what? Those of us who've been around the block a few times know those people aren't going to last in the classroom anyway (and it's not like everyone on your job is so great). Let us take care of it; you people need to start cleaning up your own messes.

more . . . http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com/2012/12/atrios-nails-it-teachers-are-sick-of.html?spref=fb

[dkf]

1. Weren't we leaving this up to teachers until we saw things sliding?

It seems to me that something changed and made us wake up to the prospect that our system wasn't performing as needed.

If it wasn't the teachers, who or what mucked it up?

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. No. The teachers have always been left out of the reform game.

We apparently don't know enough about education to provide input.

[dkf]

8. But why did it need to be reformed?

Why did it get to that point?

[silhouete2]

11. Becuase

people who have no business being in the education discussion--corporations etc.--are making the rules and thusly things have gone downhill. Biggest issue I see in education as a teahcer? Inequitable funding in educaiton between suburban schools and urban schools. The poor are STILL getting screwed--and until this issue is taken care of --it won't get better.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. It doesn't.

But in order to justify controlling the money, schools need to be failing.

Read Shock Doctrine. This is all according to script.

[gollygee]

14. +100,000

The schools are supposed to fail. The economy is supposed to fail. We're all getting played.

[lolly]

17. Bingo! We have a winner!

"Our Schools Are Failing," like "Social Security is Going Broke," were the opening battle cries of the movement to privatize schools and social security.

Convince enough people that schools are failing, then start pulling money out and giving it to private charters or vouchers, then schools have to cut teachers (somehow, never administrators) and classes get larger, and then when schools start getting worse, they can point to the problems they've created as proof that we need to take more money out of public schools and hand it over to corporations to run private schools.

[Posteritatis]

13. Because there's money in that, or because someone thought kids were learning the 'wrong' things

That or "I'm not in school anymore, so why should my tax dollars go to schools? Let's slash the budgets!"

Those are pretty much the main reasons governments tend to take a hatchet to education before they'll touch anything else.

Anyone who thinks that teachers have had a lot of autonomy in education anytime in the last several decades is completely delusional, anyway.

[SharonAnn]

22. People (and corporations) saw the giant revenue stream and wanted to get in on it.

So, they need to get rid of public funded education standards so they can insert themselves into the revenue stream, turn on a spigot, and divert the money to themselves.

It's that simple.

Same reason the Medicare Part D was structured to benefit drug companies and insurance providers.

Same reason that lots of former military jobs were "privatized".

Same reason companies want to privatize prisons, and water, and utilities, and .....

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[liberalhistorian]

4. Bullshit we were "leaving it up to teachers" for a long time. That's never

been the case. I grew up with teachers who came from an education family and it was never, ever "left up to" them. They always worked on mandates from on high and orders of administrators. Why don't you think of the gross underfunding of too many schools, increasing poverty and abuse/neglect rates, and a tremendous increase in federal requirements and mandates (the IDEA, for just one example among many) WITHOUT ANY INCREASE OF FUNDS TO PAY FOR THEM. Not to mention the ideological attack on the very idea of public schools, which has always been present but really gained steam these past few decades, especially with the selfish libertarian bullshit, and which gave rise to the "reform" privatization movement of for-profit education operations whose purpose was to starve public education of funds and support. But yeah, just go ahead and take the easy way out and pile on the teachers.

[dkf]

10. But our spending is outsized compared to other countries.

Were we falling behind and only caught up now?

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Watch this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021916009

[knitter4democracy]

27. We never were behind.

When they compare our top students to other countries' top students, we blow them out of the water. When you compare apples to apples, we are in the top. That falling behind thing is a fabrication.

[catrose]

31. True

I was a "teaching artist" who visited classrooms to deliver "special presentations" for many years. I saw one teacher that I would have frogmarched off the campus, two or three that I thought were lazy slackers. The rest were trying as hard as they could in a system that not only didn't help them but made things as hard as possible to actually, you know, TEACH. It's only my experience, but I think I would have run across a larger percentage of those terrible teachers whose fault it all is, if they really existed.

My cousin (unlike me) was a "real teacher" who taught elementary school for more than 25 years. Last year she was faced with a dumpster full of "reforms." This year she retired. Not worth it to keep going. I used to help her put together 1st grade journals. I couldn't believe how much work she did after 3 pm. She loved it--until the "reforms."

[JDPriestly]

5. How the banks that bought factories and companies

that used to employe the kids' parents and pay them decent salaries?

How about folks who put their money in the Caymans rather than pay taxes that could reduce the number of children per classroom and permit the teacher a little more time with each child?

How about healthcare insurance companies that make big profits and pay huge CEO salaries instead of using that money to make sure that every pregnant woman gets the healthcare she needs before and after pregnancy?

How about our politicians who siphon tax dollars into the pockets of defense industry executives rather than into the pockets of math teachers?

How about those parents who prefer spending time in divorce court to working together to raise secure children?

How about those dads and moms who drink themselves into oblivion on the weekends while watching football on TV but have no time to go to parent-teacher meetings at the school?

Lots of people to blame. Among them the rare teacher who really needs a break from teaching the undisciplined, bored, nasty kids that American parents send to school every morning. And I'm not saying that all American parents send nasty kids to school every morning. But it only takes one really lousy child to mess up an entire classroom.

Occasionally a teacher is to blame, but most often the blame should be placed on the parents and on the society in which we live.

[Tumbulu]

26. You have my vote for best response!

exactly!

[truedelphi]

53. Thank you JDPriestly! n/t

[gollygee]

6. When was it ever left up to teachers?

What?

[dkf]

19. Who else is there? Administrators?

If we are going to blame American society, then there isn't much hope because I don't see how we change that.

[gollygee]

21. Politicians

Look upthread and read Shock Doctrine. Our schools and our economy are being played the way Bain played corporations. Bankrupt them and pillage. Politicians are underfunding schools and creating policies designed to make schools perform worse (like NCLB) in order to force them to fail so they can be sold off to corporations and privatized.

[dkf]

28. That is the downside of bad performance. You open it up to bad fixes.

But that still doesn't answer my question on the original cause of our slide.

[gollygee]

38. I didn't say bad performance started it

Greed started it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. 1. ELECTED OFFICIALS

2. Wall street Banksters

3. Deformers like Michelle Rhee and Eli Broad

Please note - NONE of the above are IN education. Rhee doesn't count since she left to make her millions claiming we needed to fix our schools.

[dkf]

29. There was a time when our schools were the best.

What happened between that time and when the politicians started micro managing education?

Or is it your contention that the politicians have always micro managed and used it to it better?

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. We're in the top three worldwide

What happened? They started to CLAIM we were failing so they could get their hands on the money. The largest pot of money any state handles is the education budget. Those who can never accumulate enough wealth have had their eyes on that money for decades. They've just about convinced the average American that our schools are failing and we need to implement massive reform (which coincidentally, the reformers will profit from).

It's a great big lie and a shell game that is actually harming our kids.

READ SHOCK DOCTRINE. That's the recipe for what's happening today.

[Mariana]

49. What particular time period are you talking about?

We've always had bad schools and failing students. There has never been a time in this country that ALL of our schools were "the best", or that ALL of the population received a good education.

[roody]

51. You are repeating myths.

[silhouete2]

9. UH---

nothing has been left to the teachers. We have NO say in curriculum development. We have to buy expensive programs from publishing companies--and are told we MUST teach it exactly as it is--even though we know that one program does NOT fit the needs of what should be taught.

We have to adhere to legislative doctrine--even though that legislation was created by people who have never been in a classroom.

We have no support from administration regarding students needs. If a child needs services, I know that this child has learning issues--I have NO say in whether or not this child should be tested for learning issues--even though year after year the same problem crops up. I'm at the mercy of the administration and the school psychologist on which children in my classroom receive special services or not.

I also have no support when it comes to dealing with discipline issues. The administration REFUSES to suspend violent students--so they are returned to my classroom and I'm told to deal with it. Meantime, the child has learned I have NO power and they can do what they want. So my classroom is constantly disrupted by children who don't care--and yet somehow I'm supposed to teach that child and the rest of my students.

I have no supplies-- I pay for things out of my own pocket because the district won't pay for ht em. Where do they think the supplies come from? We have no money for copies--yet I"m supposed to use them because we have no workbooks--so that comes out of my own pocket.

I have NO say in getting rid of crappy teachers--we are told to help these teachers as much as we can. If I realize this person isn't gong to make it--I can tell my principal BUT if they don't' want to go through the process of getting rid of a teacher, we are stuck.

NCLB--was designed with NO teacher input--as are most district and state policies. We are told what to do--even if it is counterintuitive to reality and what really works. No one has ever asked me what works--we are told we must do better and work harder.

What's wrong with the system is the inequality in funding to richer suburban schools and poorer urban schools. That is a societal inequality--NOT because of teachers. Until we address the issues in poorer communities--we will NEVER deal with the inequality in education.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. +1

[calimary]

20. Welcome to DU, silhouete2! And thank you for this post.

Teachers just absolutely get dumped on! I think it's a disgrace!

I think if it were up to me, the first thing I'd do is get rid of, or lock out of discussions - ANYONE who insisted on teaching "creationism" or "creation science" in the same classes and given the same level of credibility - as SCIENCE AND EVOLUTION. Bible studies belong in BIBLE class. Or religion class. Or theology class. Or philosophy class. The Bible is NOT science!!!!!!!!

Just the facts, ma'am. NOT the ideology. We need to get rid of the butt-inskis.

Teachers get so little respect and support. It just sucks.

Glad you're here. Glad you can bear witness and tell the tale. We need you! We need to hear more from where YOU sit and stand. Those active combatants on the actual front lines are the ones we should be listening to. Not the armchair warriors safe and cozy back home or at a great distance from where the action is. YOU GUYS, YOU TEACHERS, are in the trenches fighting this madness every day, and getting pittance for pay, and no respect.

That is one thing I would change.

[dkf]

25. No that can't be the main problem.

That isn't even an issue here and isn't that a high school issue if anything? It says nothing about underachievement in lower grades where most of the scoring is done.

[dkf]

24. Most of what you mention are problems of the fix.

But what caused the original problem before they started doing all this?

I agree they mucked up the solution. I am wondering who dropped the ball in the first place.

Is this all a result of the inability of the system to discipline then? Was that the point at which it started sliding? There must be a catalyst.

[wcast]

36. It was mentioned above.

There was no big problem. It's all a con game. It started with Regan and his report on schools but most schools do a great job. The ones that don't, we know the reason why and it's poverty. Please read this link on our rank in the world. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/therootdc/post/back-to-school-rethinking-americas-global-education-rankings/2012/08/27/af11b510-f06e-11e1-ba17-c7bb037a1d5b_blog.html

With schools at less than 10% poverty, we are number one in the world. With schools at less than 25% poverty, we are number 3. There is money to be saved by governments and made by politicians who are investing in these charter schools. They also want to break unions and a block that routinely votes against them.

Most choose not to believe this. Here in PA, I have been telling my members that for years. They only now believe it. I was surprised at the number that either voted for Obama this time, or didn't vote for Romney. Hopefully we will vote out Corbett next.

[TheKentuckian]

42. Back when the whole effort started, it was a big push in math

with a secondary push in science.

We had slipped out of the top 5 or 10 and had fallen a couple of notches in hard science.

The slippage that was there was probably due to advancement of other countries in rather than actual loss of ground and the inability to maintain ahead of the curb were probably investment and curriculum flaws.

Ancient books, catering to religious fuckwits, anti-science noise in textbooks, little early development on those subjects at early and more developmental ages while our kids were doing adding and subtraction others were entering advanced mathematics because they started school earlier and got beyond the shapes and colors stages much quicker.
Our kids (us) started late and then seldom would catch up in hard sciences and maths unless they were naturally gifted or at least heavily inclined because most critically due to lack of exposer, repetition, materials, access, and development.
This was exacerbated by differences in fundamental structure of education that doesn't compare apples to apples. Many countries weed kids out of the field and move them to different tracks others had many excluded for many other reasons, particularly the ability to pay eliminating the most difficult demographic.

We also cannot ignore that even the absurdly dealt with solutions were to a fake problem based on cooked numbers due to a world wide education shock doctrine beyond national structural differences. There has been a lot of just what we see here going on for a long time, particularly in emerging economies with the testing and sample cherry picking to reach predetermined results, I believe in pursuit of controlling that chunk of resources globally and dictating the flow of knowledge and opportunity to the masses among other beneficial to a few considerations.

[dkf]

44. Okay that is the best explanation I have seen by far.

Thank you.

So in actuality our expectations have been raised due to other country's achievements.

If this is so I think it needs to be framed better by everyone. All Americans need to understand we are asking more from our kids so that we can compete with other countries. I've never seen a politician explain that and what is at stake. We simply don't ask our people to work towards any goals.

Or if we can't convince them all maybe we need to accept that not everyone is capable of excelling in all aspects, and test kids for aptitude and direction and let the geniuses be geniuses. That is not to say we shouldn't let kids determine their own path and let them try if they so desire, but not all kids are the same.

I just feel so frustrated hearing the same thing over and over with not much of a plan that makes sense.

It seems to go back to the whole idea that our American Government is painfully inadequate at good planning and implementation.

It's almost shocking how much better others are at this.

[silhouete2]

43. Some of the problem is that everything isn't as cut and dry as you'd like to make it

But please be careful when you say the US is sliding. I take exception to that. WE all LOVE to compare our students' testing to Asian countries. But that is apples and oranges. Asian countries don't necessarily educate all their children--they educate their brightest. What we value in our educational system (creativity, problem solving, logical reasoning, being able to explain how things work/are done) isn't what many Asian countries value. Plus, what happened with our last reform--NCLB--was that we wanted to teach TONS of stuff-but do it at a superficial level. That doesn't work because kids know a little bit about lots of things, but not enough in depth about really important stuff. What I have noticed since the institution of NCLB--which showed up early in my teaching career--was an emphasis on testing where the child simply has 4 choices, picks one, and sometimes they are lucky they get it right--but you never really know if they understand it. They were just simply spitting out facts. Logical reasoning went out the window--children can't do higher order reasoning/questioning--analysis, evaluate, synthesis. What's really ironic in all this talk about the educational "crisis" (which uses the same logic as the SS crisis, Medicare crisis--anywhere where there is a lot of govt.$ going around)---is that Asian countries are now starting ot adopt our old way of teaching students--more higher order thinking and such--while we do all we can to emulate their way, which even the Asian countries are seeing isn't the best. It does appear that we are swinging the pendulum model back that was as well--FINALLY--with Common Core which at least addresses the higher order thinking AND the concept had teachers on board who were part of creating it.

This "crisis" has come about around the same time the conservative ---capitalistic way of govt. spending (or lack thereof) started. Ronald Reagan's presidency started this whole cycle we see now--about how we think it is more important to give corporations tax breaks, slowly choke the middle class---and let those 1%ers have most of the wealth. If you want to pinpoint a starting time--look there. That's when all the talk about our failing schools started. But just because people say public schools aren't doing well, doesn't make it so. You need to be careful who the messenger is --because sometimes that messenger is serving their own interest and not that of children or education.

[dkf]

47. I might accept your explanation if I didn't see how well Asian immigrants do in Hawaii.

Because we have a large Asian population we attract many Asian immigrants.

I have gone to numerous graduation ceremonies throughout the years and it is amazing how when I peruse the programs, I see the dominance of Asian names. And while we have many Asians born and bred here, it is those with the Asian first and last names that are the achievers.

These are public schools so we are not speaking of kids of wealthy Asian immigrants as anyone with means attends private schools, like Punahou where Pres. Obama graduated from.

I can only speak from my experience, but kids who began their schooling in Asia seem a cut above the locals.

[silhouete2]

48. I think you proved my point

Our education system the way it is now is very much like thiers from where they come from.

[Curmudgeoness]

18. Seriously?

Give me an example of where teachers had freedom over how and what they taught. Or whether certain teachers were kept or were fired. Or hired in the first place.

Every step of the way, teachers have been told how to do their jobs. I have begun to wonder why we bother requiring them to have a college degree in education to teach. The local school boards make most of the decisions for the district, including who is hired or fired, number of teachers, curriculum, and how and where tax revenue is allocated. The state Board of Education dictates what is taught and sets up the testing. The federal Department of Education sets their own standards. And all of these bureaucracies are staffed by non-teachers, at least for the most part.

So you tell me, who mucked it up?

[knitter4democracy]

30. Teachers have never been in charge.

We have always been told what to do from the beginning. School boards, principals, even all the way back to pastors/priests in charge of the church that owned the school (which still goes on in private schools today) have always been in charge.

The latest school reform movement started with Sputnik. When we got behind in the space race, everyone started blaming education and making a big deal of our STEM curriculum. Reagan then had an opportunity to bash the unions and give his cronies more money by making schools buy expensive computers and programs and more. This has just grown and grown through a very concerted effort by the people with money from manipulating stats (our scores have been stagnant for three years straight when, if you look at the numbers, our scores are going up?) and the media.

[dkf]

33. Geez then what are we arguing about if teachers have never been in charge.

So this is all status quo?

[knitter4democracy]

35. Yup. Schools have always been the scapegoat.

Teachers would get fired repeatedly for all kinds of reasons, and even Montessori ran into issues when she tried to set up her schools. This goes way back.

[Igel]

34. The perfect decided they knew better.

"A Nation At Risk" and "Why Johnny Can't Read" started it.

The problem was that the schools hadn't gotten worse in the preceeding 20 years. It was just suddenly a problem.

Part of it was the civil rights tensions from the late '60s and '70s had to find an outlet. The bottom achievers tended to be non-white, so it was a natural fit, civil rights advocates coupled with overachieving Boomer parents. This was especially true when the schools' performance was important--if you got a reasonable C in a crappy school in 1960 you'd stand a good chance of getting a decent job. If you got a reasonable C in a crappy school in 1970 you'd have a horrible low-paying blue-collar job, when everybody knew you needed a college education.

Since then it's been one battle after another, with improvement here and there but mostly around the edges. School funding's tripled or more, class size has decreased, and the results are dismal. Thousands of dissertations and papers and books have been written about how to do it perfectly--most contracting the other, many repeating the same platitudes but based on poorly controlled studies or studies with nonsensical default hypotheses.

We've had fad and panacea after fad and panacea, but it always comes down to the same problem: Teacher's matter. And if kids aren't learning, and the only seriously major thing we have control over are teachers, then we focus on teachers.

We leave aside that other things matter more than teachers. Educators have no control over them and are told not to complain about them, however obvious they are as part of the reason we're being beaten. Now, this is a huge mistake. It's one thing to focus on the only truly major thing you have control over; it's another to act as though there is nothing else important involved, and even worse to insist that those who recognize that there are other things stay mute about it. It lets parents off the hook. It lets "pop culture" off the hook. It lets social relations off the hook. And as the hook gets bigger and sharper, all the other more important things and people and groups suddenly find that it's very much in their interest to make sure that attention is only focused on teachers. Politicians, off the hook, find that there's every reason to say they'll be social saviors and spare the parents the fruit of their mistakes and shortcomings.

One way to electoral popularity, relieve the public of responsibility. (Feed and entertain them, and you're golden.)

Meanwhile, those writing grants all know how to make things work. Until they try to scale them up, then they run into the oddball effect that every innovation has good results when it's novel. Having sold the bill of goods to the government and private foundations, now they have to explain why their panacea doesn't work. Gotta be the teachers.

[GeorgeGist]

37. I think it began with your heart throb Ronald Reagan.

He made stupidity respectable.

[roguevalley]

41. administration is the bane of teaching. I can't go to my favorite restaurant

anymore to eat breakfast on Saturday because a bunch of Obama hating, muslim hating douchebags now have targeted teachers. Fuckers.

[roody]

50. What did you see sliding?

[sabrina 1]

52. What changed it was Republicans pushing to privatize Education and a lot of people jumped

on that profitable bandwagon. It had nothing to do with teachers, other than to use them in order to get support for taking the Education funds and passing them into private hands. How could you possibly have been on this site for so long, where all this has been explained ever since Bush's disastrous NCLB 'education bill' written BY businessmen who clearly knew nothing about education, FOR businessmen who DID know how much profit there is to be had from grabbing public funds to use for their own benefit.

[liberalhistorian]

2. Amen. I grew up with teacher parents

and I saw every day what they went through and what it did to them, and even then, in the 70's and 80's, the profession was constantly, unfairly dumped on. I am SICK TO DEATH of those who've never spent one day in front of a classroom and who have had ZERO training in doing so yammering on and on about what needs to be done and how and piling even more on teachers when they have no clue what the fuck they're talking about. The for-profit foundations and "think" tanks are, indeed, the worst, particuarly the goddamn fascist Heritage Foundation, which is constantly doing studies on what "takers" teachers are.

What's truly amazing and infuriating is that it's one of the few professions where no one actually talks to the practicioners of the profession when trying to improve or reform it. They, especially the goddamn politicians, talk to everyone else under the sun and pay attention to everything they say, even if it's complete unverified bullshit, but denigrate and ignore the very people who practice the profession. Politicians don't try to mess with medical stuff without talking to doctors, etc., but heaven forbid they should even consider the viewpoint, experience and insight of teachers. No, they'd rather score political points by bashing the teacher's unions, without which the working lives of teachers would be even more of a living hell than they already are for too many. I know, because my parents began their careers before the advent of the unions and would often discuss just how bad it really was.

[sulphurdunn]

7. Fixing

public education is a matter of social and economic justice. The corporate educational reformers (at least the leadership) know this too, but since they profit from social and economic injustice and also desire to profit from the privatization of public education, it would not be in their financial interests to actually reform public education by striving to remove the injustices that cause its problems. It is rather in their interests to take the public money and perpetuate the profitable inequalities that have already made them rich. If you think Bill Gates or Eli Broad of the Walton billionaire machine, the Bloombergs and Rees of "education reform" give a shit about the welfare of public school kids, I have a bridge to sell you in New York. Hell, I have a canyon real estate deal for you in Arizona.

[Danang1968]

32. Drink the kool aid

My wife and I are retired teachers from the great state of Tx. The idea that teachers ever had any Input into how education is structured in this state is crap.
For years the republican state legislature has determined every issue schools can or cant do. When you can send kids home and for what reason etc,etc,etc. Writing on the restroom wall is a criminal offense by the way. At least it was a short time ago. The state elected school commission for curriculum is dominated by a bunch of religious types that believe the earth is 6000 yrs old and students should not be taught critical thinking skills.
Teachers have never run anything in this state and never will with the republicans in charge. They seem to have a fantasy vision of a sweet old lady that considers getting cookies at christmas as part of your salary package. They apparently never stared into the eyes of some of the kids I taught that went to court for felony assault and robbery.

I hope i didn't make too many grammar and spelling mistakes but I am an ex Marine Viet vet and a graduate of Tx A&M. Oh yeah, I am also a teacher and we all know teachers dont know anything about anything (even though I am a published author in the area of science).

[Coyotl]

39. One of the last big pools of capital to privatize, public education funding

Dis-empowering educators and their unions is part of the process of transforming education into private profits, siphoning more capital from the public by supplanting education purchased with profits to private owners.

[Starry Messenger]

40. k&r

[obamanut2012]

46. I am disgusted with how teachers are treated in this country

The public perceptions of them as lazy and greedy and inept.

I will also include ALL public employees in that statement!