Wouldn't it be great if Democrats set the national talking points?

[jollyreaper2112]

I am goddamn sick of stupid fucking bullshit getting turned into national talking points by the goddamn motherfucking Republican motherfuckers. Republicans gin up a controversy out of sawdust and fog, the fucking media takes the threat seriously and Democrats then play-act like they have to take Republican concerns seriously. It's no different from a goddamn child bawling about the monster under the bed, mom credulously believes it's there and dad is left trying to prove a negative. "I can't see a monster there, it's not there." No, that just means it's really good at hiding! "There's no monster there." That's what a monster sympathizer would say!

We always let the Republicans make the first move. So, is this like Br'er Rabbit and the Tar Baby, is this rope-a-dope? The story on the 2012 campaign is that Obama created an opportunity for the Republicans to fuck themselves by letting the crazies set the agenda. Rush Limbaugh talking points led the news cycle and so we got top stories of slut shaming, denying contraception, rape apologies, and immigrant-bashing. Romney was correct in that he would only get 47% of the vote but he mobilized the other 53% against him.

This gave Obama a victory, ok. But what's he going to do with it? We aren't talking about climate change, technological unemployment, resource depletion, and any of the big, serious issues that face us. Are the rights of gays and women and minorities unimportant? No. But at the same time, there are bigger issues at hand. Does it really matter if gays are allowed to marry if there's no food to eat? Does it really matter if women have to be paid the same as men if the jobs are still paying shit wages? Hell, if there are even jobs?

I want to see Obama get his baseball bat and tell the GOP how it's gonna be.

[img][/img]

I want to see Democrats setting the agenda for a change. I want internal reformers to say fuck the oligarchs, fuck the banks, fuck Wall Street, we're representing the people. Get on the bus or get under it.

This isn't going to happen, of course, which is why I'm so upset.

[still_one]

1. Is it the Democrats or the MSM?

[ananda]

2. As .. we .. should.

We won the fucking election!

[Nay]

3. Amen, Jolly. Couldn't have said it better. My only conclusion is a sad one -- nearly everyone

in power likes things pretty much as they are, and the public is treated to a dog and pony show every few years to keep them riled up about dumb shit like gays, which party does what, guns, etc. I am fed up with it all.

[jollyreaper2112]

9. That's my gripe

Both parties make out well being funded by the same corporate interests. They'll do the same things, only the Republicans openly say they're going to do it and do it and the Democrats say they won't and do it anyway.

[oswaldactedalone]

4. Your point is good

although could've been stated just as well without all the profanity. Not that I mind a little profanity but your OP contained too much.

So, how do Dems correct the problem you've pointed out?

[closeupready]

5. IMO, corruption of the democratic process with money

is why the US media is no longer, in large part, performing its function as the, what do you call it?, fourth estate serving as another check on branches of government.

It really is that simple, I think.

Blaming gays or immigrants or feminists for a failure to achieve liberal goals is precisely what Republicans want you to do, so I guess they'll be sending you a gold star via snail mail...?

[jollyreaper2112]

11. not blaming the gays

I'm saying we're running ourselves ragged fighting over a tiny subset of what's wrong while the great majority of what's wrong is getting ignored. It'd be like working in a factory and having a knock-down, drag-down fight about getting two-ply toilet paper in the shitter and we finally get this concession. CEO acts all butt-hurt and we're supposed to be happy. What about shorter hours, higher wages, safer working conditions? Oh, right. The toilet paper fight sucked all the air out of the room, there wasn't time to talk about anything else.

[closeupready]

15. Okay, good - I'm going to K&R this thread for

the fact that it's inspiring a lot of really good discussion points.

And to respond to your response to me, keep in mind that putting Democratic Party constituency interests first is not a distraction from moving mountains - it's an essential part of doing what they were elected to do - serve the interests of those who constitute party membership while also serving 100% of the US. They can and do attack multiple issues at the same time.

Gay people are an essential part of the Democratic Party, have been for many decades now, and have been under direct attack by Republicans for the last 40 years. Using government policy to make the lives of GLBT people better is not only a good idea, but mandatory.

And please respect that many of us who are Democratic and gay will put GLBT issues first and foremost - always and forever, period.

Cheers.

[jollyreaper2112]

16. serving multiple interests

Note that I'm not saying do one instead of the other, I'm saying do both.

I can respect a gay person being more concerned with, say, gay marriage rather than redlining, the same way I as a man care about cancer but am more concerned about testicular cancer than cervical cancer.

What I'm sick of is having sensible woodchucks telling us we're going to have to settle for the slowest possible change in the status quo while we are currently going to hell in a handbasket.

[closeupready]

17. Agreed. Keep pushing them, no matter what.

And if they instead choose to serve their paymasters over the American people, send them to the unemployment office. It can and does happen.

[jollyreaper2112]

18. But how do we make them pay?

Not liking my policies? Tell me how you're going to go vote for the Republican instead. Run primary candidates from the left? Pardon me, let me take a big sip of this here milk so it might spray comically from my nose.
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[img][/img]

GOP! Yins gonna vote winger or wez'a gonna primary you from the right! We don't care how many elections we'll lose from it none, either!
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[img][/img]

[closeupready]

19. I'm not getting your point, sorry - 'when we win, we lose'???

Democrats won big, the popular pendulum is swinging back to the left.

That's not losing, that's winning.

[jollyreaper2112]

20. only if the pendulum really swings

Republican leadership fears their base, Dem leadership scorns theirs. There's always plenty of hippy-punching from the DLC but you'll only hear the GOP bagger-punch if they're accidentally caught on a hot mic.

[closeupready]

21. With all due respect, I think that assessment is dated,

based upon a leadership model that was adopted in the aftermath of the 1994 midterms when Dems got trounced. That was almost 20 years ago.

We won, they lost. The clear message American voters sent was they want a healthy social safety net, they want liberal government, they want a tax policy that is progressive and makes the burden of financing government activities on the backs of those who have the most money and off the middle class.

The GOP can continue to fear a base that pushes for a legislative agenda which is even further right, if they wish to see their diminishing share of Congress shrink yet further. That would suit me just fine.

I'm just not seeing what you're seeing.

[jollyreaper2112]

23. Are you looking in the same direction I am?

Nixon could not run as a Republican. Neither could Reagan. Obama's positions are to the right of them both. Let's see if we get a Grand Bargain and sellout further. That's what I fear. Hope it does not come to pass.

[woo me with science]

6. *Which* Democrats?

You see...There is the problem.

[jollyreaper2112]

14. I don't see much leadership coming from Third Way, DLC types

The real reformers are kept away from seats of power. Don't rock the boat.

[vi5]

7. Hell I'd just be happy

for the Dems to not buy into and push back on Republican talking points. Then maybe I'd be happy to have them actually set the talking points.

But at this point I'd be happy to just not have them buying into them. I'd be happy to not hear our president or our Senators/Reps talk about a "fiscal cliff". I'd be happy to not hear them talk about how the deficit is our biggest problem. I'd be happy to not hear them talk about tax cuts. I'd be happy to not see them worry about "job creators". I'd be happy to just hear them push back on this crap and not buy into it themselves.

[jollyreaper2112]

12. West Wing

What did Schott say? "Leo! You're accepting the premise of the question!"

[img][/img]

That's what our public Dems do, the GOP will say something completely outrageous and the sheepish, timid, defensive reaction of the Dems almost makes it seem like there's something to it.

[RepublicansRZombies]

8. I rec'd except for the last line- It IS going to happen because we are going to make it happen

WE the PEOPLE won this election on the internet, up against citizen's united and record amounts of money, the worst corporate lying suck up media the world has ever seen, and the possibility of election theft.

WE the PEOPLE have found our voices on the internet.

We have caught on to their tactics, we are smarter now.

We are ready to move forward and we have the power now.

[leftstreet]

10. They did. In 2006 and 2008

short lived but brilliant anti-war and pro-people campaign rhetoric

[jollyreaper2112]

13. and then what happened?

My personal theory is that the Democratic Party exist to occupy the space that would otherwise be taken by a real opposition party. They're like a blast deflector on a rocket launch pad, trying to channel all that heat and fury elsewhere so it can be safely dissipated. Don't like the Republicans? Vote Democrat. Wait a second, Democrats are pulling the same shit? You can't vote third party, that would just be throwing your vote away. I noted the speed with which Obama dismantled his 2008 political machine which led to the 2010 election failure. I noticed how Obama didn't push hard against Republican delay tactics, play-acting like he was expecting genuine cooperation from them when any man smart enough to have accomplished as much as he has would damn well know better. Obama is not an idiot.

I think that many people who are in the party at the state level, who vote Dem and volunteer Dem, they're genuine. But I think inside the beltway, with the DLC shitfuckers, they're just the other flavor of the Plutocrat Party, good cops to the GOP bad cops. Either way, they're still cops and you're under interrogation without a lawyer.

Honestly, I feel like we're living out Braveheart. The GOP are the English and fly great, proud banners saying "We are evil shits." The Democratic leadership is more like the Scottish nobles, falling all over themselves looking for the first opportunity to break ranks and sell us out.

[ProSense]

22. Impossible.

Why?

Here's a report:

Progressives Increasingly Confident That Obama Won’t Cave On Fiscal Cliff Deal
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021900034

Do you think that's being spread around? No. Most people spend time chasing WSJ and other RW media talking points and spreading them like gospel.

That's exactly what happened during the campaign. People helped the media to create the alternate reality that the race was too close to call.

The only way to set talking points is to repeat the ones you want to become the narrative, having fact on your side helps tremendously.

[jollyreaper2112]

24. Agreed

And we try to do that on the message boards. But I don't see Democrats as strong on messaging as the Republicans are. I can hate them for their lies even as I respect their skill.