MCDONALD'S STRIKER: 'They're Not Paying Us Enough To Survive'

[xchrom]

http://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-fast-food-strike-nyc-2012-11



New York City fast food workers are expected to walk off the job this morning in a one-day strike, Josh Eidelson at Salon reports.

The chains involved are McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, KFC, Domino's, Taco Bell and Papa John's.

Why are the workers walking out?

"They're not paying us enough to survive," 21-year-old McDonald's worker Raymond Lopez tells Salon. "This company has enough money to pay us a reasonable amount for all that we do … they’re just not going to give it to us as long as they can get away with it."


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-fast-food-strike-nyc-2012-11#ixzz2DcM4XwDc

[Magoo48]

1. I support a living wage for all who work...

[libtodeath]

4. x1000

this is and should be considered a basic right.

[snappyturtle]

2. I can't imagine trying to survive in NYC on Lopez's hourly rate: $8.75/hr.!

Henry Ford's salary plan of paying workers enough so that they can buy a Ford can't be over emphasized. Corporations wouldn't make and rake the profits they do without their little guy employees....what is the problem with corporations? GREED. imho

I wish the striking workers the best and many kudos!

[PotatoChip]

16. I was thinking the very same thing.

Even if they were paid double that amount, it would still be quite difficult. Well, at least in Manhattan. Not sure about the other boroughs, but probably there too. NYC is quite an expensive place to live.

[closeupready]

23. People double, triple or quadruple up, in illegally converted

apartment houses, pooling expenses, etc.

That is, they adapt to a lower standard of living.

[PotatoChip]

31. Yes. People do what they've got to do, I suppose.

My daughter is lucky. She lives in a nice section of the East Village w/a friend from college. Their place is only a one bedroom, but the dining/living room area is large enough (by Manhattan standards) so that she is able to divide the space w/a curtained area for her 'bedroom'.

The going rate for an identical apartment in her building is a whopping $2,500/month, but since another friend of their's parents own that particular apartment, they only have to pay $800 apiece. Plus, they were both fortunate enough to have landed decent paying jobs right out of college- just a few months prior to the Sept. 2008 Bush recession.

I feel sorry though for young people that graduate from expensive schools like hers, only to find nothing out there for them on the job front. I wish these McDonalds workers the best of luck with their strike and that things will soon change for the better. For everyone.

[snappyturtle]

68. I find it most sad that our youth, the future, is so blighted with circumstances to eek

out a living today. My kids are sufferring this fate. They just don't understand, truly understand, that life has not been so difficult for the young educated individuals of the recent past. Good thing they don't....or, too bad they don't!

[Live and Learn]

102. I find it hard to believe how many are willing to sell out the future generations

including their own kids. Very sad.

[snappyturtle]

108. Yep. I think it's called immediate greed satisfaction. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

137. And the wealthy are ate up with it.

[Mr.Turnip]

110. In NYC that doesn't just apply to Mcdonalds workers.

I know people who work for the city/state, various companies you know typical middle class jobs, they make 40-60k or more a year and many of them STILL have to double or triple up if they want to live in Manhattan or the nicer parts of Brookyln and Queens because the insanity of the NYC Realestate market has one bedrooms going for over 3000 dollars a month.

here in the city the problem isn't just lack of good paying jobs, its also that we do not have the regulations on rent we once had anymore and the market is out of control with prices just constantly going up and up and up, thankfully my Apartment remains regulated if it wasn't there is no way in hell I could live here in Chelsea.

I can't imagine how people who work around minimum wage do it here.

[closeupready]

112. For newcomers, it's difficult. If you've been here a while, though,

you likely found a rent-controlled or stabilized unit at a more affordable price. Or you live in NJ, or in the more dodgy areas like East New York or Jamaica. Don't get me wrong - I actually like the Jamaica area of Queens, but it's higher crime than most.

Seeing your edit, Chelsea is insanely expensive. I remember meeting a guy back in 1996 - he'd just bought a condo on 22nd Street for $500,000 - I thought that was expensive, but they go for $1.5M or more now.

[Art_from_Ark]

74. It's not just corporate greed,

it's also the burden imposed on them by Wall Street. Remember that all of those big companies are listed on the stock exchange. Wall Street expects them to "make the numbers", each and every quarter. If they don't make the amount of profit that is expected of them, their stock gets punished. Since the market for the products sold by these companies in the US is essentially saturated, then the companies resort to cutting wages, cutting workers, raising prices, or some combination thereof, to "make the numbers" and satisfy the analysts and big-time investors.

[AldoLeopold]

76. Exactamundo

Excellent analysis sir and drives straight to the heart of things, and greetings from Hot Springs/Lake Hamilton!

[Art_from_Ark]

78. Hello, Hot Springs

I'm from the Beaver Lake area, up north

By the way, I was sad to see that your local boy Bill Halter lost his quest for the Senate. I thought he could have been a good Senator in the mold of Dale Bumpers or David Pryor. Have you heard anything about him since then?

[AldoLeopold]

81. I'm afraid not

I was born here, but only recently returned about 3 years ago and have since then been in school at UALR. Here in Garland county, the friends of my relatives, and my relatives themselves, are all staunchly conservative and so I've been rather isolated from any kind of news or rumor.

[Art_from_Ark]

84. Do you have a local paper there in Hot Springs

or are you now at the mercy of the Democrat-Gazette just like Northwest Arkansas? We once had 4 independent daily newspapers, but they have all been taken over by the "media groups".

[AldoLeopold]

113. Sentinel - Record

owned by WEHCO which owns the ADG (formally the Arkansas Democrat of course) which is the "media group" you're referring to, which also owns numerous cable tv concerns namely Resort TV cable.

A TEXAS company, owned by a bastard sob and his bastard sob family. Of course Arkansas is just Little Texas now, I'm sorry to say. I lived 15 years in TX and thought I was escaping back home - turns out I was wrong so my next stop is Maine.

[Art_from_Ark]

119. ADG is one of the media groups I was referring to

The other is Donrey/Stephens.

Six of one, half-dozen of the other.
I really hate corporate control of local newspapers. Things just haven't been the same since the Gazette sold out to Gannett back in the '80s.

[Art_from_Ark]

80. By the way , I really like your user name

Aldo Leopold-- one of America's greatest conservationists

[AldoLeopold]

118. Thank you sir

My Zoology professor at UALR (Dr. Robert Sikes) gave me a copy of A Sand County Almanac while I was taking his course for my degree in Environmental Science and I've been a disciple ever since.

[greytdemocrat]

3. Interesting...

I personally find the concept of considering a McDonald's burger flipper job a career you could "survive" at, hilarious.

It's a part time job for kids. If this is all you can do to "survive", you have bigger problems.

[xchrom]

5. ...

[Chellee]

7. +1

Thank you. Perfectly said.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

10. Exactly my reaction. nt

[greytdemocrat]

12. Ha

Did you look at the pic in your thread??? Do any of those kids look like they should be earning 50K a year??? I pick 50K because I'm just guessing that's what you might think they deserve in NYC.

It's a McDonald's.

[EOTE]

32. 50K is three times that amount.

Surely there's something in between below the poverty line and 50k. And do you honestly believe all of those people making $8.75/hr at McDs live with their parents? Or should have to?

[greytdemocrat]

41. Sure there is.

And if you can convince people to pay say 20 bucs for a Big Mac I'm sure McDonald's will pay these KIDS more!!

These wage demands are silly. It's a burger flipping job. Now if you are working the frler I'd pay the KIDS a little more but only cause I love their fries...

[EOTE]

42. Wow, you really believe that paying a living wage means $20 big macs?

That type of daft rhetoric would sound very apt at a Ron Paul rally. Even using the most right wing logic possible, John Schnatter of Papa John's figured that providing health care coverage for all of his non-covered workers would add about five cents to the cost of a pizza (or about one half of a percentage point .5%). Yet somehow providing a living wage (and a more productive workforce) is going to make food 5x more expensive. Yeah, that makes total sense.

[dchill]

63. +1

[Doremus]

70. When I read that other poster's remarks

I was instantly reminded of another board I used to frequent. The resident Libertarian used to say the exact same thing about fast food workers as the other poster. He used to also say young people didn't need no steenking education -- especially if it involved government (gasp!) grants.

Makes you wonder how some people ended up at DU, doesn't it?


Edited to add:

The Libertarian at that other board used to always use hyperbolic rhetoric too, just like our "greyt" person above. Funny, for folks like these there really is no "grey," everything's so starkly black and white for them.

[progressoid]

62. I'm sitting in a McD's right now.

There are a few teens/young adults working here. But I also see a middle aged man and two thirty something women working here. Fast food employees aren't just kids and retirees. Many have families to feed and this is the only thing available in todays shitty economy.

[alp227]

88. Oh my, I was dealing with the SAME income argument with some right winger on facebook recently!

Sheesh, I never imagined that DUers would buy into that right wing response to minimum wage reform arguments: "So let's pay 'em $100/hour, we'll all be rich!"

[madinmaryland]

120. What's really sad is McD's could give most of these folks a 50% raise and they

would still be around the poverty level (assuming they are even given full-time hours).

A union would be able to give them a living wage with benefits. So what if it costs us 20-50 cents for a large order of fries.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

38. thank you

I was gonna let out a string of curse words and insults. Miss Judy says it all much better.

[JCMach1]

8. Don't go there ever apparently- if you do, you would notice

during the downturn (since 2008) most of the jobs are now filled by people who have been left unemployed by the shitty economy. The more poverty ridden the area, the less 'kids' you see. In some places, these low-pay service jobs may be the only ones that are available.

I for one think it is awesome that service workers are realizing they are not the slaves of corporations!

[Skidmore]

9. What type of jobs do you think people have migrated to when they

were drummed out of careers by downsizing. I know people with multiple degrees who now are found stocking Walmart shelves, working for janitorial services, and flipping burgers. Where do older people go when they are considered to expensive for the company to employ? What types of work is available in areas where manufacturing has moved elsewhere? These types of jobs ceased to be teenager jobs some time ago.

We had a date night a couple of Saturdays ago (don't do those much anymore because they eat up the budget). We went to a matinee showing of Lincoln and our meal was at Burger King. There was a woman bussing the tables who most certainly was in her late 70s or her 80s. She was stooped over and limping while the young adults whizzed around her. Wonder if that job meant that her SS check couldn't be stretched to cover her monthly expenses. It doesn't take much and not everyone is seeking a "career" at a place like McDonald's. Quite often it is a way to supplement other income. I don't know your circumstances, but that snark is contemptible.

[Stonepounder]

13. You obviously have never been unemployed.

Think about someone like me. I was laid off from my job of 20 years when I was 61. Thankfully, between my severance, unemployment insurance, and some savings, we were able to make it to my 62nd birthday and get onto Social Security. Had it happened a year earlier, we would have been screwed, because the unemployment would have run out before SS kicked in. I would have gladly taken a job as a burger-flipper or a greeter at Wal-Mart. But that was at the height of the recession and there were NO jobs available.

So, yeah, I would have had bigger problems. So, what, exactly, was your point?

[greytdemocrat]

83. I most certainly have been unemployed...

Which has nothing to do with anything but you asked.

What I'm saying and what I damn well know you all understand
is that if you all want your burgers to be affordable you damn well
should not expect a Burger Flippers salary to be some pie in the sky
number that some person here has deemed a "living wage".

It's not McDonald's problem that some of it's employees have sob
stories, they are a dime a dozen. McD's puts out a product that a LOT
of people want and they want it at an affordable price.

If McD's started doing what a lot of people on this thread wanted they
would be out of bidness in two shakes. And what would THAT accomplish???

Some flipper gets a "decent" paycheck and then the whole company AND
the companies that depend on McDs go into a death spiral.

That's my point.

[klook]

104. How much is a "living wage," anyway? Do the math.

Or let MIT do the math for you:
Living Wage Calculator.

[sarisataka]

15. I manage a McDonalds so know exactly what everyone makes

I do not know how they support families either. Like many of them it was not my first career choice but after my 80+k job moved away and 18 mos. unemployed I was a bit desperate. I consider myself lucky to come in as management making 30% of what I used to.

At some point you have to accept that to survive you are not 'above' any job. If you are a burger flipper, be the best damn burger flipper. Go where you can with that career or at least survive while looking for better.

You wonder why so many immigrants work at McD-- because they are willing to work. I am proud of my Hispanic, SE Asian and Somali workers. They give me an honest days work for the best I can get for them. I encourage them to seek management or education for something better in the meantime. My biggest problem is those who do believe such a job is beneath them. They are argumentative, don't want to do things like empty the trash, do a poor job when they do it and still gripe that they are not paid enough.

[lbrtbell]

17. It's supposed to be a job for teens

Instead of trying to make wages higher for a job that's equivalent to babysitting your little brother for pocket change, we should be fighting to bring REAL jobs back to our country. Jobs that are meant for adults to earn a living wage...the jobs that have been sent to China.

Nobody past college age should have to be flipping burgers.

[ArcticFox]

44. So-called REAL JOBS aren't coming back

Unless and until the employers have to pay a living wage to every worker.

As long as any sector of labor agrees to work for mere survival wages (or less), everyone will continue to see their wages fall.

This has happened before. Many times. It often ends in revolution.

[Fearless]

54. And what pray tell will those jobs be doing?

[quietly]

18. If it's a part-time job for kids..

Then you shouldn't expect to be able to get a burger during school hours.

[leftstreet]

30. ...

[hrmjustin]

46. Welcome to DU!

[smokey nj]

49. Well said!

[wryter2000]

51. Well put!

Great first post. Welcome to DU.

[Tsiyu]

69. Greedy and heartless people

do not like such a logical answer...you are making sense

The only logic they understand is their desire and entitlement to more, more , more, while they justify everyone but them getting less, less, less. The greedy are special snowflakes, you see....

But I LOVE your response and I welcome you to DU

[anarch]

87. ha!

cosigned!

[sammytko]

107. I think they let kids out early if they work and are in a school sponsored club

Used to anyway when I was in school in the 70s. I believe it was called DECA. I think it's still around in some form.

You would be amazed how little time a senior in high school has to spend in school. I was shocked. Some work and some are enrolled in college courses.

[noamnety]

25. "Some jobs aren't supposed to pay a livable wage despite corporate profits."

That's really what you are saying. I don't understand the logic.

BTW, the average age of a McDonalds employee is about 30.

[Honeycombe8]

77. Wages aren't set by profits of the employer. They're set by skill level and # of applicants

for those jobs in the market.

If wages were set by employer profits, then you'd have to take a pay cut every year your employer gets less profit, and a huge increase every year he gets a big jump in profits.

Wages are set by skill level - that is, how many people can do that job? Not very many people can star in a movie and guarantee millions of dollars in gross for it, so those people will get paid a lot of money. But just about anyone can flip a burger, and there are a lot of applicants ready to fill those jobs, so those jobs don't pay well.

If you want to get paid more, you really have to learn how to DO something. A skill, a trade, a profession, an occupation. Yes, it takes time, it's harder to do, there are fewer of those jobs maybe...but that's why they pay more.

[frostfern]

90. And what for those that can't find any better paying job?

Food stamps? Welfare? Let the government subsidize off of pure debt for a living wage a corporation won't pay? You do realize in a bad economy the job market is like a game of musical chairs. Someone is going to get left standing no matter what. It's a zero sum game. Telling the unfortunate one that's left standing to try harder and stop being such a loser is in pretty poor taste. Yea, I have an advanced degree and an IQ of 135 but I don't look down my fucking nose at anyone for not being as lucky as me. Seriously WTF!. To tell the truth I respect service sector people because myself being on the autism spectrum I really can't do those types of jobs long term (I tried once and had to quit after about a month or it would have put a bullet between my eyes).

[Honeycombe8]

116. You don't get paid more because you need it.

If that were the case, a guy with 2 kids would get paid more, for the same job, than a guy with 1 kid.

It's the job and the skills and education for the job that dictate what it pays. That's just reality.

I flipped burgers during my teen years. I waited tables later. I worked at a stereo shop where I had to vacuum and clean the huge picture windows. I'd do those things again in a heartbeat, if I had to. But those are temporary jobs. They are not careers or any way to build a life on. That's because it's a job that pretty much anyone can do, which means it doesn't pay much.

If I would qualify for food stamps (there's no welfare in my state), while working at Burger King, I would take the food stamps. That's what they're for. All the while trying to better my job position and get a job that pays more.

You shouldn't look down your nose at people who flip burgers. They ARE capable of doing something else, you know, even if they don't have your IQ and advanced degree. Neither a high IQ nor an advanced degree is required or necessary to make a good living. But NO ONE is going to make a good living, if he doesn't either get an education OR learn how to DO something for a living. That's reality.

[frostfern]

125. And you are obnoxiously ignorant and out of touch with modern reality...

I never said I look down on anyone so don't you dare put words in my mouth. You are the one looking down on those who have no choice but to "make a career" out of those kinds of jobs in today's economy. The problem is in this day and age those jobs you want to call "temporary" are NOT temporary.

Also, just because someone is CAPABLE of doing something else doesn't mean they're going to be able to get a job doing that particular thing when there are a limited number of those jobs to go around. You must have a big problem understanding basic math here if you can't understand that.

If you're not simply a troll please at least have the human decency to not whine and bitch like a typical repuke teabagger about "the culture of dependency" when working families need things like food stamps just to survive.

[Live and Learn]

103. Oh, you mean by expensive degrees and licenses!

Seriously, I work as a programmer in IT. Nearly anyone (with a logical brain) could do it with not too much more training than working at a burger joint. Plus I get to sit down.

As for those CEOs that make the real bucks just figuring out ways to downgrade with or without bankrupting the company, I think any burger establishment employee could do the same.

[klook]

105. Exactly! Very well said.

As for those CEOs that make the real bucks just figuring out ways to downgrade with or without bankrupting the company, I think any burger establishment employee could do the same.

Many CEOs are aggressive morons who clawed their way up the corporate ladder, or oblivious morons who were born on 3rd base.

[Honeycombe8]

115. Are you going to raise your children to have "careers" at Burger King?

No, no one does that. That's because it doesn't pay much.

There is something in between flipping burgers and being a professional.

If you don't learn how to DO something in life, for a living, you will never get paid much. That's reality.

[Honeycombe8]

114. You don't need an expensive degree to make good money.

There are a lot of small business owners (no education required...but you have to be willing to work 12 hour days 7 days a week), paralegal (no degree required), legal secretary (you can make well over $50K a year in Dallas TX with a few years of experience - no degree required, but you have to have excellent computer and office skills, as well as knowledge of legal language and workings of the court system or real estate, etc.), plumber (license, yes....degree, not required).

If you are willing to get some education, how about LPT or nurse technician or medical technician. Court reporters (technical school required, but these guys make a ton of $). Waiter or waitressing or hostessing at a nice place....still not much money, but more than Burger King.

Etc., etc.

There IS something between flipping burgers which requires no skill, and being a professional. MOST people have those in between jobs and make a decent income.

There's no shame in fipping burgers on a temporary basis, which is what that type of job is (unless you go into managerial...and I think they require a degree for that). I'd flip burgers if that's the only thing I could get. But I would understand that it doesn't pay much, because it requires no skill except being able to stand up and flip a burger and wipe a table.

[Live and Learn]

124. Actually, "flipping burgers" requires a great deal of multitasking

including getting the order correct, ensuring the meal is cooked properly, ensuring it is all completed in the proper order, keeping everything hygienic etc.

One of the reason young people excel at it is because it is a very stressful environment with little down time (and sitting).

Maybe we just need to change some peoples "realities" regarding what jobs should pay.

[Honeycombe8]

128. Nah. I used to flip burgers. I've done a # of jobs. Flipping burgers requires no special

skill. If you can stand up for the required # of hours, have no signficant disability physically (you can have a mental disability), you can work at a fast food joint.

They're assembly line, too. You either flip burgers all day, or you take orders, or whatever. You don't jump from job to job. But we all took turns wiping down the tables,when we had a free minute.

Skill-wise for jobs, that's pretty low level. Hence, low level pay. It is these types of jobs that the minimum wage was created for, so that they get at least something more than next to nothing.

[Live and Learn]

130. I am pretty sure I wouldn't be good at it,

so I have to have it to you Honey. I am sure you could do my job with no problem at all as could many of the "burger flippers".

Too bad we all can't be as talented as you. And too bad you can't see the value in all of us doing what we are best suited for and getting paid a living wage whatever that may be.

[frostfern]

126. Actually working fast food does require skill...

because there's people like me who can't do it.

Also, if minimum wage is based on merit rather than need, would you be willing to work for 30 cents per hour? You know that's what they work for in some countries, correct? If wages were set based on the skill and personal merit of the worker you'd expect wages to be the same in every country. CAPITALISM IS NOT MERITOCRACY. I repeat CAPITALISM IS NOT MERITOCRACY. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL. Firms will pay lower skilled workers as little as they can get away with without causing strikes and social unrest. It has absolutely nothing to do with what someone deserves.

[Honeycombe8]

129. Minimum wage in TX is $7.25 hr to start. (exceptions for teens & students)

Not 30 cents/hr.

Get it through your thick skull....jobs are paid according to how many people CAN do it and WILL do it. Because working at a fast food place doesn't require many skills, many people can do it and WILL do it. So it doesn't pay much.

Compare that with a legal secretary job. Far fewer people CAN do it, because it requires more and higher level of skill. So it pays more.

It's very simple.

Yes, companies will pay ALL employees as little as they can get away with, not just fast food workers. No, companies don't always pay based on merit. Welcome to the grownup reality of the working world. Merit is also subjective...what you see as merit, someone else may not.

[Live and Learn]

131. And where do you get those skills, Honey?

You pay to learn them or a company pays for you to learn them. In no way does having the skill make you any better than anyone else, just more fortunate,

So basically, you go along with the fact the most fortunate deserve more than the less fortunate! I didn't pose that as a question because from what you have posted it seems to be a fact.

[Honeycombe8]

134. Where you get skills.

You really don't know?

Most high schools offer vocational classes...computer skills, business, office skills. They're free.

Anyone flipping burgers can get an entry level office job, even if it's only in the mail room or keeping the records in the back. You learn how an office is run, basic office skills, and other things. If you do that okay, you are able to get promoted, move to another location, or get an entirely new office job with another company, and move up that way. With a raise.

You can also take courses at night at local community colleges. Skills courses...computers, accounting, bookkeeping, finance, business courses (if they contain skills).

There are now getting to be legitimate online courses by legitimate colleges. Don't know much about them, but I've seen ads.

There are also vocational schools, but those are expensive, and I don't know about their reputations. They offer financing, but I would think a regular college course would be better. Altho the private for-profit vocational schools move at a much faster pace and are geared toward helping people learn new skills to get better jobs. But as I say, they're expensive.

It doesn't happen overnight. It takes a plan and sacrifice. But it's worth it in the end, IMO.

But the point is NOT that a fast food worker can't get paid more doing something else. Of course he can. The point is that, whoever takes his place at the fast food place will STILL not get paid as much as someone else who has more skills or higher level skills. It's just common sense. Imagine you start your own business. You have to hire someone to come in and sweep at night and throw out the trash, etc., as well as someone to keep your books. You instinctively know that you will have to pay a bookkeeper more than the janitor, because the bookkeeper has a higher level of skills, and you won't have nearly the # of applicants to choose from for that position. That person has invested in learning a particular occupation. Doesn't make that person better than the janitor in any way. But the skill level and responsibility warrants a higher wage than the janitor.

[Live and Learn]

135. Lol so now wages are based on instincts. nt

[TwilightGardener]

34. There are a lot of adults working there, in fact. I worked there

when I was a teen, but worked alongside several older ladies. Living wages should be for everybody. I'll pay more for my burger.

[greytdemocrat]

85. My god...

That is so pie in the sky it hurts to read it. Join the real world man.

[Occulus]

96. The minimum wage should be between fifteen and twenty dollars per hour.

That's the real conversation here.

If demand creates jobs, employers who cannot pay the much, much higher minimum wage will be replaced by those who can because a demand exists for the product. Or do you finally acknowledge that the vaunted Invisible Hand is itself the pie in the sky?

[Tsiyu]

111. Like the "real world" in Australia

where they pay $16 an hour for fast food workers? How in the fuck do those "Pie-in-the-sky" auusies do it?

Either you want people to make a wage that will keep them off food stamps, or you don't mind if people have to get food stamps because their pay is inadequate.

That's the real world.

And I bet you practically orgasm when some CEO gets a $200 million bonus off the backs of his or her overworked, underpaid workers, huh? Cuz those profane bonuses don't qualify as PIE IN THE SKY bullshit?

YOU need to join the real world.

[Soundman]

37. I agree

Mr 3 posts so who cares. A living wage and McDonald's in the same sentence? Now you have entered into a comedy routine, right? My first job was at McDonald's, so was my wife's. Now one of her children got their first job at McDonald's. To think of McDonald's as a long term career is insane, unless you want to go into management. As I recall they had many avenues available to pursue that endeavor for those so inclined. Advancement up the ladder there seemed as easy as one two three. I don't know, maybe I am a relic from the old days already. But if McDonalds was the best I could do it would be time to move where it wasn't. By any means necessary.

Of course we have been more fortunate here in central Ohio than other places from what I see. Everyone I know from 16 to 60 who wants to work, is working. Of couse the malingerers are still malingering. I saw the other day unemployment here in lick me county (licking) was 5.7 percent. So maybe I have a rose tint to my spectacles? I just know McDonald's was a great first job for me, and has been a great first job for millions of others just like me. I learned a lot there. And it was a great filler for my scant resume. Never gave it a thought as a career though. Living wage? Really? Wow, just wow.

[TwilightGardener]

39. I have no idea why anyone would discourage ANY worker, no matter

how lowly in your eyes, from seeking more money and benefits. Yeah, a living wage. Deal with it.

[Fearless]

55. +1000

[Live and Learn]

132. +1 nt

[Viva_La_Revolution]

40. It's not the same as it was when we were kids

Back then, you could always move up to a 'real job' after a few years of part time under your belt. now those jobs are far fewer, so you move sideways if you're lucky, or on to another part-time min wage job under a different national brand.

in states like mine where unemployment is 8%, I rarely see high school kids working fast food. Most of them seem to be my age, mid 40's.

and I worked at McDee's and Burger King at the same time for several months in my 20's trying to make 2 part time jobs = paying the rent.

[Live and Learn]

133. +1 nt

[treestar]

53. Bigger problems like what?

That they are not enough jobs out there?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

61. I agree man!

Fuck them. We shouldn't even have a minimum wage! If they were worth anything the free market would sort it out. And while were at it fuck the UAW too, don't you know they ruined the American economy?

There should be a club for people like us, we'll call it the Republican Party. See you at the next meeting!

[smokey nj]

67. Damn good post!

[Selatius]

73. Your post flies in the face of the idea that workers have a choice to unionize. It's insulting. nt

[CreekDog]

97. in other countries you can survive on it, is our country so crappy that we can't?

[raccoon]

139. Are you a time traveller from the 1960's or something? Nowadays, "good" jobs are hard to find.nt

[geckosfeet]

6. And they have been getting away with it for a long long time.

I think that part of the problem is that these types of jobs have historically been filled by younger worker, maybe high school or college "kids" working their first real job. In the current economy we see older folks who are on their own or have families that are taking these jobs for the lack of anything else.

People have to work to be an integrated part of society. If the PTB refuse to ackowledge that, if they refuse to pay people a living wage, then they are declaring their intentions to create a situation of corporate debt bondage for all working people.

It works something like this -

1. You have mortgage, a family to feed, a car payment, a school loan, debt from medical service or some other form of major debt
2. You have to find a job and through an unfortunate set of circumstance end up in a minimum wage or near minimum wage position (or two or three) at Corporation A,B or C
3. After paying your bills (mostly) you find that you do not have any money for food. Your employer does not provide medical insurance.
4. You apply for food stamps and government funded health care services (medicaid/medicare)
5. Corporation's A,B and C get rich while you barely survive and are demonized as a freeloader by your employer, financial executives and elected government representatives and republican presidential candiates
6. Go back to step 1 and try harder

[JCMach1]

11. the demographics of these workers has changed since 2008

and more mature workers aren't going to take the shite.

[ChaoticTrilby]

99. Thank you.

I just wish that some of those Fox-News-Talking-Point-Spewing "DU'ers" upthread would read this step-by-step explanation. It's apparently complicated for some people.

ALL employees - even "lowly" ones who've fallen on hard times and need to work for fast food - should have the right to bargain collectively with their employers. Go, unions!

[Sunlei]

14. The State raises the minimum wage. These workers should demand a minimum wage hike.

Somehow I think these 'strikes' by minimum wage employees are competition driven.

[DaveJ]

21. "This company has enough money to pay us..."

That is a key statement. They aren't asking for a minimum wage increase because there are some companies that might not be able to afford it. Personally, I think that if a company can't afford to pay their employees well, they should throw in the towel. But there may be a few exceptions so I'm not sure.

At any rate, it's more practical to direct their concerns to their employer rather than to ask the state for a minimum wage hike.

[fasttense]

19. What gives these corporations the right to even do this?

What right do they have to handout jobs that require the rest of us to support the recipients of these jobs with health care, food stamps or their parent's kind assistance? Why can't these very profitable businesses pay decent wages? Their CEOs make billions, why can't they pay them a decent wage, even if it is kids. Yeah, some kids take these jobs but what right does an employer have to pay a kid less? If the kid is doing the same worker as an adult, he should be paid with the same pay.

McJobs like working at fast food restaurants make their money by pushing off on to us tax payers, or their parents, the responsibility of supporting the people who take these jobs.

When an employer pays you minimum wage, he is saying he would pay you less if he could get away with it.

[Sadiedog]

79. Exactly!

[JDPriestly]

20. As a former McDonald's worker (long, long ago)

I support the strikers. I know how bad it was way back when -- early 1970s. I can only imagine what it is like now.

Way back then, I actually was paid better once I was eligible for unemployment than I earned at McDonalds.

[alp227]

91. whoa, really, unemployment benefits>min wage back then?

I thought public benefits were not supposed to be so, so that people don't use 'em as a substitute for work. that was my comeback to conservatives who complain about people living off welfare.

[JDPriestly]

123. Back then, I had worked somewhere else and accumulated

my credit for unemployment benefits. I took the job at McDonalds because I wanted to work, but I actually received more money from the unemployment benefits that I was due based on my former employment. McDonalds had always paid far too little.

When I left McDonalds, I returned to graduate school. But I will never forget my time at McDonalds.

I like to work.

[olegramps]

22. This is a prime example of the state of our economy.

Sorry to say it but the American workers screwed their own selves. They bought the managements' propaganda that unions were their enemy and they would be well taken care of. I saw young workers refuse to join the union since the reasoned that why should they pay dues when they got the same benefits without joining. Others fell for the bullshit so-called Right-to-Work laws that were solely designed to destroy unions.

A major result of this was that the working class had lost its ability to demand protection of their rights by their Congressional representatives. What we experienced was the massive outsourcing of jobs without any protection against the unbridled greed of the corporations for massive profits. Congress not only failed to put tariffs on these products that were outsourced, but actually awarded corporations with tax breaks and off shore accounts to avoid taxes.

Well, they took good care of the workers. The outsourced their jobs, cut their pensions and canceled their health care while awarding the executives multi million dollar bonuses for cutting production worker cost from $20.00 an hour to $1.00 an hour for slave labor. Welcome to the post FDR era of the destruction of the Middle Class.

[KansDem]

26. My wife works at a community college

And she's also a member of the NEA, or more precisely the KNEA.

Everyone in her department is a member and pays dues. However, there was a time several years ago when two of her colleagues (they have since retired) did not belong to the union. They were adamantly anti-union and refused to join.

Yet, when it came time for pay raises and other benefits provided by the union, these two "parasites" were right there in line to get theirs!

[madinmaryland]

121. I hate the misnamed "Right-to-Work" law. It should have been named the

"Right-to-screw-the Worker" Law.

[raccoon]

140. Amen. My state has that dumbass law. Orwellian name if ever there was one. nt

[marmar]

24. Occupy, the Wal-Mart strikes......

There's something happening here........

[DinahMoeHum]

35. Heh heh. Methinks it's just the beginning.

[Chan790]

65. I'm just waiting to see who's going to be the "Marie Antonette" this time.

The moron that tips it over from a smouldering rage into an active revolution.

[alp227]

92. WORKERS' SPRING 2013!

[SammyWinstonJack]

138. ...

[malaise]

27. Tax payers are subsidizing these greedy bastards' employees

Amazing indeed

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. And it spreads...good.

[My Good Babushka]

29. The idea that "kids" should get paid less is particularly insidious

Do young people not get sick in the same system people of advanced age do? Is gas or car insurance cheaper because you are younger? Is college cheap? The things young people need cost just as much as the things older people need. People of every age should have their labor respected. If their work was so worthless, how did their companies become so rich and successful? And incidentally, manufacturing, warehouse work, and steel mills used to pay crap because it was immigrants doing "unskilled labor". Those jobs weren't middle-class, but they became middle-class when the proper pressure was applied. The same with retail and restaurant work, there is no reason for workers to starve when a company is prosperous. It's just what we've settled for.

[RadiationTherapy]

33. To clarify, it is a "Shift Manager" in NYC making $8.75/hour and not merely a "burger-flipper."

[white_wolf]

36. So that makes it even worse.

Every job should pay a living wage, I don't care if you are a burger flipper or manager.

[Fearless]

56. That is the same rate I'm aware of in New England...

I work in the food industry (albeit for a better restaurant chain) and I have cooks who make several dollars an hour over that, and we're not exactly fine dining! I worked as a manager making $14/hour and it was still barely livable even with the health insurance I was lucky enough to be provided (at a fee).

I live in a highly populated college town with astronomical rental prices as a result. Everyone, and i mean everyone who works in food service lives within a few miles of each other... on the cheap side of town. Night and day from academia.

[Cali_Democrat]

43. We need a living wage law

Full time workers should be paid enough to survive.

Period.

[OnionPatch]

45. Not sure I understand the logic of

those saying some jobs "shouldn't" pay a living wage. Perhaps there are some people out there who really can't get anything better? Are they undeserving of a living wage because they don't have a lot of skills, even though they're willing to work hard? And why are some businesses entitled to cheap labor while others are not? Because you own a fast food restaurant you shouldn't have to pay your employees for their time and effort like everyone else? Sorry, but I believe even the lowliest of jobs should pay a wage that supports a minimum and dignified standard of living.

[xchrom]

47. They have an allergic reaction to paying 1 penny

More for a service they deem - by their god given superior judgement - unworthy.

It's stupid beyond belief - and Randian at it's most fundamental.

[smokey nj]

48. Funny how these folks never question CEO compensation, isn't it?

[xchrom]

50. +1

[Fearless]

59. Absolutely!

I've spent years working in food service, and these are by and large NOT people who are slacking off in life. They are people who couldn't afford to go to college or who are going to community college on the side taking single classes a semester trying to better themselves. It's also people who owned their own businesses that went bankrupt in the last few years. There are so so many of them folded into the mix.

I'm reminded of a server I had who worked for me a while back at a restaurant I had managed for. He worked two jobs. One for me and one for a chain "burger flipper". He worked 40hrs a week for me and another 30 odd for them. Why? Because he wanted to be able to have enough money to afford rent in a good neighborhood where his son could go to the "good" school in town so that he wouldn't have to end up doing the same thing his dad did for the rest of his life.

[patrice]

52. Solidarity!!! With the living seeds of the future of this country! Are we going to OPPRESS them? or

HELP THEM GROW?

[raging moderate]

60. Is there something we could all do to help a lot of them?

I don't know a lot about economics, but I have worked as a waitress and a cafeteria worker in my time. I remember having to walk home all alone at 2 am on a dark road past a cemetery. I remember not being able to sleep because my feet hurt so much. I remember not having enough to eat while serving food to people. Do you want these people to eat out of the garbage can? Actually, that is what I did, for awhile. It was horrible. And I had to sneak, or I would have been fired. Guess what? It is not myself I am ashamed of! It is my employers. Luckily, my status and income have improved over the years. But I still remember.
If you think they should do better, think again. Can you think of what it might be like to have NOBODY to help you out when you first start out? My mother cared and helped me some, but she wasn't very healthy and she had to support my mentally ill brother. And some of these kids have NOBODY. I remember a Jimmy Stewart movie made during the Depression, in which a young man is reminded by his mother that the girl he is judging for having been in prison has only done the same thing that he had done as a young boy (but his family quietly arranged for immediate restitution to the store with gradual repayment from his allowance).
I was thinking, could we start a great national custom somehow getting TIPS or similar extra payments to these McDonald's workers? Then at least they would have that much. How could we get these extra payments to the kitchen workers? And write to the company and tell them that we will buy SMALLER portions of everything so we can get the money to these workers? As some have said here, it wouldn't take $50.00 hamburgers to do it. Could somebody calculate how much a burger SHOULD cost for these workers to get paid enough?
And then, meanwhile, maybe we could get the minimum wage raised, with some kind of careful campaign. I see that the Dow-Jones is back up over 13,000 today, and the Nasdaq is up past 1400, right? It seems to me that the economy is ready to take off again. Maybe it is time to kick these elephants' butts (figuratively of course) and get them up and moving again.

[Politicalboi]

57. It's too bad we don't have

An age scale that the government picks up wages for older workers. Teens should make $10.00 and hour, Adults 20 through 40 make $15.00, and 41 to retirement gets $20.00 and hour. Make business and government pay half each. The more stuff people buy boosts the economy, with these living wages, it would work out.

[1monster]

58. They NEVER DID pay us enough to survive. I worked for McD's in the seventies...

There were many times when I had to survive from paycheck to paycheck by buying a loaf of bread and a jar of peanutbutter and jelly swirl (I couldn't even afford a separate jar of each.)

And plenty more than once, I risked my job by scarfing down a hamburger at then end of the night that was supposed to thrown out because I was so hungry.

Understand, my expenses were very minimal. I paid $110 a month for a room with a bed, a desk and chair, a mini refrigerator, a bathroom and a walk-in closet. I didn't have a car and walked everywhere I went.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

64. To all the right wing assholes on here.

Who don't support a minimum wage and think these people should be working for peanuts.

The minimum wage in Australia is almost 16 an hour. Fast food is more expensive there BUT IT SHOULD BE! Instead of stuffing our fat faces with food off the dollar menu maybe it should be the 2 dollar menu.

People get a decent wage and obesity goes down. Seems like a win-win to me.


And before anyone pretending to be a Democrat gives me some free market Ron Paul nonsense defending the piss poor wages these workers make just remember you're subsiding these low wages with your tax dollars.

[Chan790]

66. +1 n/t

[Tsiyu]

71. Great post

Right wing, greedy assholes complain if people are on public assistance, and then complain if people want to make a wage that keeps them OFF assistance.

Which the fuck is it, you greedy, heartless asswipes? Should working people be paid enough to keep them off foodstamps?

Or should they continue to be paid shit wages and continue to get the food stamps?

You can't have both, unless you greedy fucks want to see your heads stuck on pitchforks soon....

workers are slowly realizing how they've been making slave wages.

I predict a mass worker revolt very soon. One can only hear about the perverse bonuses one's boss receives before the rage sets in....I can't wait

[alp227]

93. (Scrooge accent) Well the poor chaps need to be wearing rags and begging for pennies on the street!

Then a church can adopt them and indoctrinate them into submissive spiritual authoritarianism! (/scrooge)

[Tsiyu]

109. Jesus Loves You!

as long as you realize you're absolutely worthless to humanity and you deserve NOTHING!

[lonestarnot]

82. This deserves a thread of it's own! +100

K & R!

[bullwinkle428]

86. This post is long overdue.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. Yup

[ChaoticTrilby]

100. Here, here!

If only I could rec comments. Great post!

[frostfern]

127. +10000

[Hekate]

72. "America's turning in to a service economy. Look to jobs opening up in the health care industry"...

I started reading and hearing these cheery pronouncements back in the '80s if not earlier. When pressed, the prognosticator would blandly state that "service industry" and "service economy" meant serving meals or working in nursing homes full of oldsters (who by then would be us Boomers).

So, okay, I was supposed to gear my kids not for trades or college, but for a lifetime of burger flipping and changing diapers on adults? And we were supposed to hail this as progress.

We were told, folks. We were told. Did no one think it applied to their own kids as they came out of high school and college in waves?

I'm not blaming you and me -- we, like the rest of the 99%, have been slammed by unregulated business forces beyond our control, as the good jobs were outsourced.

As I was taught when I was growing up, no work is without its dignity. But, the idea was to start low and humble and work up, here in America.

As we have seen, when there is no "up and out", when McDonald's and Wal-Mart make untold billions and their employees need food stamps, something is radically wrong with this picture. Then work becomes wage-slavery and loses its dignity.

There will be no "$20 burgers" -- these companies will lose nothing by paying a living wage and giving benefits to their employees.

SOLIDARITY FOREVER AND NEVER CROSS A PICKET LINE.

[pipewrench]

75. Right with you

[HiPointDem]

89. kr

[rks306]

95. Problem's of Reagan's trickle-down

These people aren't working enough jobs. Minimum wage should be close $11. Elites control all the power, unless we stop letting them have it. Sort off topic, the kid in Florida that was shot and killed for no reason, had just got a job working at MD.

[Warpy]

98. If a company can't survive after paying its workers enough to survive on

that company needs to go out of business because their jobs are just not worth doing.

McDonalds and other franchise operations will never pay living wages. It's really up to Congress to raise the minimum wage to at least a subsistence level and then index it to inflation so that these outfits can't keep wages stagnant for years because Republicans are too mean to raise the wage floor.

[6502]

101. NOW THIS IS THE KIND OF STUFF...

... that I come to DU for!

This is the kind of stuff we are building!

These are the kinds of people we support AND should make the top priority of supporting!

[SummerSnow]

106. Fresh Direct in NYC...

They need to strike too.They make $8.75 an hour as well.

[octothorpe]

117. What's considered a living wage (on average)?

and should it be a living wage for a single person, two people, a family of four?

[Fire Walk With Me]

122. Chanting workers outside 1188 Avenue of the Americas

Matt H ?@StopMotionsolo

Chanting workers outside 1188 Avenue of the Americas #fastfoodfwd @fastfoodforward @globalrevlive @citizenstreams
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/27366977/highlight/308202 …
Retweeted by Stop The Wars

[butterfly77]

136. Exactly...