The Bush tax cuts expire in exactly five weeks.

[ProSense]

I'm using this thread to count down to a deal or the expiration.

Krugman's take:

<...>

So President Obama has to make a decision, almost immediately, about how to deal with continuing Republican obstruction. How far should he go in accommodating the G.O.P.’s demands?

My answer is, not far at all. Mr. Obama should hang tough, declaring himself willing, if necessary, to hold his ground even at the cost of letting his opponents inflict damage on a still-shaky economy. And this is definitely no time to negotiate a “grand bargain” on the budget that snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

In saying this, I don’t mean to minimize the very real economic dangers posed by the so-called fiscal cliff that is looming at the end of this year if the two parties can’t reach a deal. Both the Bush-era tax cuts and the Obama administration’s payroll tax cut are set to expire, even as automatic spending cuts in defense and elsewhere kick in thanks to the deal struck after the 2011 confrontation over the debt ceiling. And the looming combination of tax increases and spending cuts looks easily large enough to push America back into recession.

Nobody wants to see that happen. Yet it may happen all the same, and Mr. Obama has to be willing to let it happen if necessary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/09/opinion/krugman-lets-not-make-a-deal.html

Democrats should stand their ground.

[thelordofhell]

1. Fuck this lame duck congress

Any bills passed by the new congress can be retroactive to the year.........why is President Obama even thinking about dealing with these losers again...........

[ProSense]

2. Reasons to be encouraged about fiscal cliff’s endgame

Reasons to be encouraged about fiscal cliff’s endgame

By Greg Sargent

Now this is encouraging. I’m told that representatives of major unions and progressive groups met privately this morning with senior Obama administration officials at the White House — and were pleased with what they heard.

Things can always change at a moment’s notice. But attendees at this meeting came away convinced — for now — that the White House firmly believes it has the leverage in the fiscal cliff talks, and has no intention of budging on the demand for higher tax rates from the rich or on other core priorities.

Indeed, one person at the meeting — which included people from the AFLCIO, AFSCME, SEIU, MoveOn and others — came away convinced that the White House would ultimately prove willing to go over the fiscal cliff if necessary, rather than give ground on core demands, though this is not by any means a desired option and isn’t being discussed as a strategic possibility.

The attendee tells me the White House is cool to the idea of going over the cliff, but added: “Would they if it’s between that and compromising their core principles? I was left with the impression that they would.”

- more -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/reasons-to-be-encouraged-about-fiscal-cliffs-endgame/2012/11/27/94e4c32a-38b8-11e2-8a97-363b0f9a0ab3_blog.html

[msongs]

3. assumes the "white house" actually has any "core principles" it won't abandon nt

[ProSense]

4. I'm sure the WH has more than Wal-Mart. n/t

[woo me with science]

5. We are being set up to be grateful for a crumb

or for the absence of a certain blow, in the midst of a continued beating.

All the rhetoric is being set up to praise the President if he merely *refrains* from taking this or that particular bludgeon to the poor and middle classes.

This is how far we have been suckered to the right. We drown in a sea of platitudes about austerity, validation of Republican framing and lies, from neoDemocrats, as though we should be grateful and consider it a great victory if we can just elicit from our Democratic President a promise not to ATTACK us in this or that particular way. We are suckered to welcome and celebrate a new round of austerity, as long as we get a promise that *certain* attacks on the poor and elderly may not be included.

What we are owed is a complete change in rhetoric and in direction. We are owed passionate, public acknowledgement of the truth about how we have been looted and robbed and impoverished for 30 years, with all of our wealth going to a few greedy pigs at the top. And we are owed a clear plan not just to refrain from certain types of further assaults on our mothers and fathers and grandparents and children and neighbors and friends, but to REVERSE the crimes that have already been perpetrated on millions of us.

Instead, we are fed more garbage right-wing rhetoric about "shared sacrifice" and taught to be grateful if we are merely spared certain particular, additional swipes of the axe.

[ProSense]

6. Remember when you

"Instead, we are fed more garbage right-wing rhetoric about "shared sacrifice" and taught to be grateful if we are merely spared certain particular, additional swipes of the axe. "

...agreed with Howard Dean?


"Any politician who tells the American people there aren't going to be any sacrifices for everybody is a liar."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021868059

Why do they keep saying that? The fiscal cliff point is spot on.

I think the President will stand his ground.

Remember: "Make me do it."

That's how it works..that is unless you think after the election citizens should do like Romney and go to Disneyland?

Advocacy, activism and pressure works wonders.

"What we are owed is a complete change in rhetoric and in direction. "

You need to continue demanding what you believe you are "owed."

[ProSense]

7. Republicans Complain About Obama Using Bully Pulpit

Republicans Complain About Obama Using Bully Pulpit

by slinkerwink

According to The Roll Call, the Republicans are hopping mad about President Obama going on the road and taking his case for ending the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy and keeping in place middle-class tax cuts to voters.

- more -

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/27/1165111/-Republicans-Complain-About-Obama-Using-Bully-Pulpit