So how does Hamas get food and water?

[LAS14]

How do the four battaliions in the south sustain themselves? I'm not suggesting any cover up of anything, or even bad reporting. I'm just wondering.

[sarisataka]

1. Two sources at least

1- it is known they had stockpiles of supplies in the tunnels. Likely these are their primary source.

2- speculation, but being the armed governing body, it is very likely Hamas operatives are first in line as aid is distributed. Also not unreasonable to assume they or their sympathizers have control of the supply warehouse so can siphon off to keep themselves fed.

[Attilatheblond]

3. All that you point out plus, Hamas has 'sponsors' who probably make sure they eat and have ammo

[sarisataka]

6. Prior to the latest phase of this conflict

Hamas collected a "tax" from Palestinians on the aid received from the UN. I can see where this might not be as common at the moment, but there may still be some collections from the starving people.

[Voltaire2]

7. 3. Hamas is indistinguishable from

the people of Gaza. Consequently the only way to starve Hamas to death is to starve the entire population of Gaza. The only way to kill all of Hamas is to kill all the people in Gaza.

I accept that 3 is the closest approximation of the reality of the Gaza uprising.

It appears to me that the IDF and the Israeli government also consider 3 to be accurate.

This is a genocide in progress.

[sarisataka]

8. Hamas are people in Gaza...

The question was how Hamas is supplying themselves while the rest of the people in Gaza face starvation.

After October 7 Hamas boasted of the supplies they had prepared and dismissed their fellow Palestinians as the UN's problem.

[Voltaire2]

9. Hamas is the people of Gaza.

This is a classic insurgent force that is composed almost entirely of the local population. As the war drags on it is increasingly clear that the people of Gaza are not being persuaded to turn against Hamas, despite the brutality of the occupation. What would they do? Turn in their sons and daughters?

[sarisataka]

12. I am glad you recognize Hamas is primarily made up of Gazans

(though of course not all Gazans are Hamas) reading some description one would believe they are aliens that landed in one specific location.

Asymmetrical wars and insurgencies are some of the most difficult to fight and win against. One option is to pound the opponent, and typically the people they represent, over the head until they give up. I cannot recall a case where this was successful. This is what Israel is currently trying.

Another option is a genocidal campaign where they targets give up or are fully eliminated. There have been several successes with this tactic. The Balkan wars, campaigns against American Indians, several African wars all fit this model. They are slightly more successful but at a horrible moral and human cost.

The third option is "hearts and minds". It is often successful but take a long commitment with little visible gain initially. Usually the frustration of the drawn-out effort leads to a change of tactics to the first option, try to beat the opponent into submission. Viet Nam come to mind as an example.

[Igel]

13. A subtle distinction.

Rather like Mons Olympus is a subtle geological feature on Mars.

Hamas is composed almost entirely of the local population. But Hamas is not composed of almost the entirety of the local population.

Then again, I could see how a father would donate his family's food to a Hamas fighter while his daughters starve. Maybe even sons. Perhaps himself.

Esp. if the society is run by Hamas and you know if you don't, you won't have to worry about feeding them--or perhaps yourself--again in few hours.

At least that's a scenario that can't be ruled out, given prior reported incidents and other's reported lived experience.

[Voltaire2]

15. After six months it is clear that the community of Gaza, the people of Gaza

are not going to turn on Hamas. If they were they would already have done so. They are not turning on Hamas, perhaps for some out of fear, but also perhaps for many, because they support Hamas. It seems obvious to me that fear alone does not explain the situation.

"Then again, I could see how a father would donate his family's food to a Hamas fighter" - if the 'Hamas fighter' is your son and he is eating at your table of course you feed him.

[onenote]

16. So is your point that the people of Gaza support the eradication of israel?

[Autumn]

17. Do they have anyone else to turn to? I know they have had no elections but

I haven't really looked into why.

[Voltaire2]

18. The point is that a military objective to eliminate

Hamas entails the elimination of Gaza and its people.

The reasons why Hamas has continued support are pretty much irrelevant at this point.

[Autumn]

19. Nothing but a military solution would ever be accepted by Israel.

[Voltaire2]

26. Yes, and what does that mean in this case?

[Autumn]

31. Nothing changes and the deaths in Gaza will go on.

That should work out well property wise.

[Happy Hoosier]

20. Are you arguing that the populace of Gaza IS Hamas, and therefore responsible for Oct 7?

I'm trying to figure out your argument here. If the populace IS Hamas, and Hamas committed Oct 7, then we have a serious problem...

[Voltaire2]

23. Sure.

Now what? Kill them all?

[Happy Hoosier]

24. I'd say your argument is all wet.

I don't believe the entire population of Gaza is Hamas, anymore than the entire population of Germany were Nazis. If it were true, Israel would have every justification to occupy the territory militarily, though not the outright death of every occupant. But we're still FAR from "killing them all," fortunately.

[Voltaire2]

25. Ok, If you read upthread I said 'approximately', obviously not every single individual.

The point is that the population of Gaza overwhelmingly supports Hamas. There is zero evidence that the population of Gaza is turning in Hamas fighters, for example, or is providing intelligence to help locate the hostages. And, again, if you read upthread, it is my belief that the indiscriminate killing and deliberate starvation of the population, both of which are war crimes, are a direct consequence of the IDF and the Israeli government also believing that the population of Gaza overwhelmingly supports Hamas.

[Happy Hoosier]

27. If that's the case....

... then Hamas, which is advocating an escaltion of the war, cannot, in any circumstances, be permitted to control Gaza. The territory will either have to occupied by Israel, or some other international entity.

If the population really broadly supports Hamas, then they have forfeited their right to self-determination for some period of time.

[Voltaire2]

29. So keep on killing and starving the people of Gaza until they support your approved political organization?

That should end well I think.

[The Magistrate]

28. Then They Are All Combatants, And None Protected Persons

You cannot have it both ways. Either non-combatants are being mercilessly killed in a largely futile effort to eradicate fighters, or, as you have maintained here twice, it is a People's War in which everyone is part of the resistance in arms, and if the latter be so, all are as liable to attack as any other element of the logistics maintaining a body in arms.

Pick a lane, as I think the kids used to say, but do pick one and stick to it....


"Get'cher scorecards here! Can't tell the players without a scorecard!"

[Voltaire2]

30. I'm not having it both ways.

I'm pointing out that the logic of 'eliminate Hamas' entails a genocide in Gaza.

[Barry Markson]

2. The Hamas leaders live in Qatar

Ismail Haniyeh (born 29 January 1962) is a Palestinian politician who is seen as the overall political leader of Hamas, the de facto ruling entity of the Gaza Strip. He is the current chairman of Hamas's political bureau; as of 2023,
Haniyeh lives in Qatar.

Plenty of food and water.

The Hamas battalions in Palistene probably confiscated it from the local population.

Like N Korea feeds it's military 1st.

[ExciteBike66]

4. I'm sure they toil all day in the fields...

Nah, they are terrorists, they just steal it from weaker people (civilians).

They probably also have stockpiles. They planned for this war, or something like it.

[LeftInTX]

5. Hamas gets first bid on any food aid.

[Think. Again.]

10. Maybe netanyahu should be thinking about THAT.

[Ping Tung]

11. I guess we'll just have to wait until all the civilians are done away with

by Israel to find out.

[Igel]

14. At this rate it will take a long, long time.

2.3 million to start--after a genocidal campaign that saw perhaps 800k become > 2M.

60k/year? That's pushing 40 years.

Hitler killed more than 60k in a week.

[Happy Hoosier]

21. And the Allies killed 125K civilians in Berlin in a bit over 2 weeks.

I wonder if the "ceasefire now" folks would have argued that the Allies were committing genocide?

[Johnny2X2X]

22. Hamas gets first take at the food and water aid agencies bring in

That's why you've seen fire fights at aid convoys, Hamas shoots at citizens trying to get food and water for their families.

This is typical of totalitarian regimes, they want the populace to have to come to them for survival. So Hamas fighters have all the food and waer they need while regular people starve. If you send your son to fight with Hamas, you might get some rations to stay alive.

[Mosby]

32. Today a Hamas leader threatened to attack the floating pier

Al-Hayya also implicitly threatened that Hamas would attack Israeli or other forces who might be stationed around a floating pier the U.S. is scrambling to build along Gaza’s coastline to deliver aid by sea.

“We categorically reject any non-Palestinian presence in Gaza, whether at sea or on land, and we will deal with any military force present in these places, Israeli or otherwise … as an occupying power,” he said.

Apparently only Palestinians are allowed in Gaza.