General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWe need an exodus from Zionism
Ive been thinking about Moses, and his rage when he came down from the mount to find the Israelites worshipping a golden calf.
The ecofeminist in me was always uneasy about this story: what kind of God is jealous of animals? What kind of God wants to hoard all the sacredness of the Earth for himself?
...
Our Judaism cannot be contained by an ethnostate, for our Judaism is internationalist by nature.
Our Judaism cannot be protected by the rampaging military of that state, for all that military does is sow sorrow and reap hatred including against us as Jews.
Our Judaism is not threatened by people raising their voices in solidarity with Palestine across lines of race, ethnicity, physical ability, gender identity and generations.
Our Judaism is one of those voices and knows that in that chorus lies both our safety and our collective liberation.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/24/zionism-seder-protest-new-york-gaza-israel
Naomi Klein
The Guardian
I've been pondering how to address the elephant in the room at our Seder celebration this week. Naomi has provided some answers.
NoRethugFriends
(2,331 posts)"Our Judaism cannot be protected by the rampaging military of that state, for all that military does is sow sorrow and reap hatred including against us as Jews."
Sure, if Jews will just be nice, then they wont hate us and want to destroy us. That's always worked before.
BTW, I do detest Netanyahu and what he's doing.
Coventina
(27,172 posts)CincyDem
(6,385 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,342 posts)Voltaire2
(13,155 posts)NoRethugFriends
(2,331 posts)My point is the one sentence is BS.
Voltaire2
(13,155 posts)so again there are many alternatives between a 'rampaging military' and 'just be nice'.
NoRethugFriends
(2,331 posts)My point is that thinking this will make people hate Jews less is wishful thinking at best.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)The actions of Israel reflect on Jews all over the world. It ain't right. It ain't fair. It's how it is.
Keeping the aggressions of Israel in the headlines is bad for world support of Israel, and also support for America, which arms Israel.
Publishing the actions against Israel makes it a more sympathetic actor.
There are no easy answers.
The Israel-Gaza situation is one more factor weighing against Biden in the election. I fear if he loses, all will be lost ... as in the whole free world.
LauraInLA
(422 posts)Voltaire2
(13,155 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,319 posts)why some religions have a military establishment and some don't.
Tetrachloride
(7,865 posts)Voltaire2
(13,155 posts)NoRethugFriends
(2,331 posts)Are you against Zionism?
If so, would you have been in 1948?
LauraInLA
(422 posts)ripcord
(5,537 posts)Anti-zionists are opposed to a Jewish state.
JohnSJ
(92,394 posts)do not want Israel to exist, and as a propaganda plow for the destruction of Israel
and frankly those pushing the anti-Zionist theme have a Jewish problem, and many also throw out other dog whistles relating Jews, money, etc.
Certain notable house members had no problem pushing that garbage, and then playing naive that they didnt know the relationship. Its all about the Benjamins.
Ask Nina Turner who blamed Jewish money for her loss. OF course ignoring the fact that she out raised Brown in donations, or that other group donations in campaigns, it is only the Jewish money that bothers them
If that isnt anti-Semitic than I dont know what is.
Or when the womens march movement was taken over by those who kicked out women who had the Israeli flag.
I have seen this played over and over again when growing up in Iowa.
October 7th was eye opening. Even before any retaliation occurred, people were justifying it, including professors from various universities.
One from UC Davis actually made a threat against Jewish journalists to do personal injury
https://cbsaustin.com/amp/news/nation-world/uc-davis-prof-under-investigation-after-threatening-jewish-journalists-their-children-university-of-california-jemma-decristo-israel-hamas-palestine-gaza-middle-east-conflict-terrorism-invasion-los-angeles-berkeley
Those Zionist journalists
IronLionZion
(45,528 posts)Hekate
(90,793 posts)To my husband and at least one old friend
Elessar Zappa
(14,047 posts)claudette
(3,593 posts)now. Why do they want Palestine's land? Why are they killing innocents to get it?
JohnSJ
(92,394 posts)have been engaged in multiple wars to eradicate it, and after each war the Palestinians lost more and more land, refused to accept a two state solution, and helped put in power Netanyahu because of those constant attacks against Israel which they do not accept. Too bad it isnt as simple as you would like to portray it.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)Both Gaza and Israel need regime change.
JohnSJ
(92,394 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 24, 2024, 05:16 PM - Edit history (1)
For years billions have pored into help Palestinians, and the PLO and Hamas which was elected, what did they do with that money. They sure as hell didnt help the Palestinians.
It wasnt Netanyahu who tried to destroy Israel in the 50s 67 and 71 war? It wasnt Netanyahu who proclaimed the three Nos. No peace with Israel, no negotiations with Israel, and no recognition of Israel.
Unfortunately Labor lost because of the actions of Hamas, Hezbolah, and other terrorist actions. Same parallel why bush won a second term, even though he ignored the warnings of 9/11.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)I reject your strawman argument against me.
Your reaction of anger shows you know it's not so simple, and that you know Netanyahu is not an innocent actor. He is a war criminal, like the leaders and actors of Hamas.
True Blue American
(17,988 posts)I remember the real Holocaust and those who died to save them. Several in my family included. They are abusing the memory by letting, Bibi and his pals to wantonly kill innocents. They are badly tarnished by this and the cruel actions of stealing settlers land over the years. This is a time of reckoning
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)Just as a hypothetical, were we -- the people -- responsible for what Trump did as president? I think it's both yes and no.
Trump hoodwinked a lot of people. I think Bibi and the Likuds also propagandize to the people.
I would like to see the war stopped, with regime change in both Gaza and Israel.
JohnSJ
(92,394 posts)it was simply how I view the current situation, and a brief historical background which brought us where they are today.
The dropping the ball of the security lapses, and ignoring the warnings are definitely on Netanyahu, as are his draconian coalition
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)And as you said before that, things aren't so simple.
Perhaps you could take some time to sort out your thoughts. You have a nice day, now.
JohnSJ
(92,394 posts)AnrothElf
(591 posts)There's a fuck-ton of ignorance about the history of Israel and Jewish history, more generally.
Unequivocally: I support the right for Israel to exist.
Hamas, and, historically, Palestinians, do NOT support Israel's right to exist. They want to destroy it 'from the river to the sea'.
That's why Zionism is still a thing, and why Israel needs a US-backed military. Without them, we'd be looking at an ACTUAL genocide in Israel, instead of the NOT-genocide in Gaza.
Hamas could end the war in Gaza TODAY: Surrender.
claudette
(3,593 posts)Spare me.
AnrothElf
(591 posts)wnylib
(21,606 posts)state at the end of British rule and choose war against Israel to take all of the land for themselves? And when they lost that war, continued nonstop with terrorist attacks and more wars against Israel?
I agree that Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal, should never have been established, and should be ended. But the current war is about destroying Hamas so that they cannot continue to carry out their sworn goal of annihilating Israel and all of its people, with aid from Iran.
Coventina
(27,172 posts)erronis
(15,328 posts)Perhaps one for the conservatives, one for the orthodox, one for the non-practicing?
Just like in the christian and muslim world, then these zion states can fight among each other as to who is the truest zion.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)In my own life, I am a Jewish atheist. I was born Jewish, but have no belief in God or religion.
A while ago, I had a very significant relationship with an orthodox woman living in New York City, who often dealt with the ultra-orthodox Hasidim.
It was two separate worlds with disdain between them. They connected solely to do business deals.
Sympthsical
(9,111 posts)That took no time at all.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218890758
Voltaire2
(13,155 posts)thinking about how to observe seder this year.
WTF.
Sympthsical
(9,111 posts)To provide an understanding of why her posture is ahistorical and dangerous, don't know what to tell you.
I've almost given up expecting the 21st Century is going to be any different. The last 1,000 years wasn't illustration enough. Why should it change now?
As for Klein, people internalize all kinds of things out of unbreakable ideology. She's been a bit . . . elsewhere for awhile now.
JohnSJ
(92,394 posts)not to vote for Hillary.
Cha
(297,655 posts)Now Spread all over the Country.
She has not one ounce of credibility.
TY
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)Naomi Klein wrote about her Naomi Wolf problem in "Doppleganger".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppelganger_(Klein_book)
betsuni
(25,615 posts)meaning deregulation, privatization, no environmental regulations, austerity); are corporatists who only care about money and ignore the working/middle class for wealthy donors and Hollywood; there was a horrible Clinton Machine and the Clinton Foundation was corrupt, etc., the usual propaganda.
But "Donald Trump speaks directly to that pain."
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)LexVegas
(6,094 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)NoRethugFriends
(2,331 posts)claudette
(3,593 posts)The practicing Jews in my family are not Zionists.
sarisataka
(18,770 posts)My family believes there IS an Israel and there's no need for it to steal Gaza and the West Bank. And they believe Palestine should have their own FREE state.
sarisataka
(18,770 posts)They are Zionist
a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel
One can be Zionist and support the formation of a Palestinian state.
claudette
(3,593 posts)is not a Zionist but a violent, power-hungry mad man who kills innocent Palestinians to gain MORE land for Israel? Why aren't the "Zionists" trying to stop him?
I believe the Jewish members of my family do NOT have the same definition of Zionist as you just posted.
sarisataka
(18,770 posts)And point to the thousands of protesters in the streets of Israel who want him out of office.
I don't rate the dictionary. I just read it.
LeftInTX
(25,551 posts)Golda Meir was a Zionist. Albert Einstein was a Zionist.
The Arab and Christian Israeli citizens would be considered Zionists.
Liberal politicians in Israel are considered Zionists.
Zionism is not defined as someone who wants to expand Israel, but who supports an Israeli homeland.
Anti-Zionist is someone who does not support a Jewish state.
There are quite a few Jews outside of Israel who anti-Zionist.
Noam Chomsky does not support a Jewish state
The board members of founders of Jewish Voice for Peace are anti-Jewish state. (At least there core is. I think their membership is fluid. Right now, thetr are probably many Jews protesting with them, who like the name and do not realize they prefer that Israel not exist)
Both Noami Klein and Noam Chomsky are members of Jewish Voice for Peace. They do not support a Jewish state.
Anti-Zionism is opposition to Zionism.[a] Although anti-Zionism is a heterogeneous phenomenon, all its proponents agree that the creation of the modern State of Israel, and the movement to create a sovereign Jewish state in the region of Palestinea region partly coinciding with the biblical Land of Israelwas flawed or unjust in some way.[7]
Jewish Voice for Peace was formed in 1996 by Julie Iny, Rachel Eisner and Julia Caplan,[10] undergraduate students at UC Berkeley.[11] Members of the advisory board include Tony Kushner, Sarah Schulman, Judith Butler, Noam Chomsky, Naomi Klein, and Wallace Shawn.[citation needed]
JVP criticizes what it describes as the "severe human-rights violations that Israel engages in every day."[12] In 2019, JVP declared itself anti-Zionist.[13] The organization also supports the Palestinian-led boycott against Israel through the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement (BDS).[14]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
There are a handful of Jews in the US who are truly anti-Zionist.
Most support Israel in some shape or form.
Mossfern
(2,552 posts)I think this all may be an issue of miscommunication!
multigraincracker
(32,715 posts)Wars are fought over flags, gods and boarders, none of which are real.
Its all a god damn shame.
EX500rider
(10,856 posts)multigraincracker
(32,715 posts)represents something else. According to the dictionary. No more real than any or all of the gods. No more real than a line in the dirt. No difference in the dirt on one side or the other. Yet one hand full of that dirt is different than the hand full of dirt on the other side. Hardly worth fighting or dying for.
Words are symbols and not the thing.
EX500rider
(10,856 posts)And since we don't have a world wide govt you have local govt.
They need defined borders so they know which people are their citizens & how far their laws reach.
You then need symbols to differentiate which govts are which on ships & planes & borders etc
marybourg
(12,634 posts)I
BuddhaGirl
(3,609 posts)Most Hasidim oppose Zionism.
Behind the Aegis
(53,987 posts)So, there reasons are far-right religious reasons, hardly a good reason or rationale for opposing the Jewish state.
Silent3
(15,265 posts)Isn't part of Zionism not just that a safe-haven country like Israel is needed for the Jewish people (which I agree with), but a whole lot of "God granted this particular land to the Jews" stuff which is a matter of religious dogma? I do not at all accept any argument for the existence of Israel which derives from interpretation of religious texts.
sarisataka
(18,770 posts)is she saying Jews should leave Israel? Just abandon the state, that will end antisemitism?
Coventina
(27,172 posts)anything bad that Netanyahu does.
Not helpful at all.
sarisataka
(18,770 posts)or is internalizing some issues without realizing what the end consequences would be. Perhaps both...
ProfessorPlum
(11,276 posts)she is one of the smartest observers of the world and its history we have. Read the Shock Doctrine. She knows who are bad actors and who aren't. And she is absolutely right to want Israel to stop this madness and genocide - for the sake of Jewish people all over the world, including in Israel.
sarisataka
(18,770 posts)she is naive. Even if Israel itself went away Jews would not be welcome in much (most) of the world. I doubt the Arab countries that expelled their Jewish populations upon the formation of Israel would take their descendants back.
Silent3
(15,265 posts)...nor did Naomi Klein.
Antisemitism, does, however, wax and wane. What Netanyahu and right-wing Israelis are doing in Gaza right now sure isn't helping promote a decrease in antisemitism.
sarisataka
(18,770 posts)as I have said, Israel has made several missteps and Netanyahu is an obstacle to peace.
ProfessorPlum
(11,276 posts)yes, Naomi Klein thinks Israel has to "stop" and then "antisemitism will go away".
way to grasp the argument.
sarisataka
(18,770 posts)not an argument.
agingdem
(7,857 posts)Naomi, you do not speak for me, the child of Holocaust survivors
you want Jews to play the victim..not gonna happen
so how about you STFU!!!!
Torchlight
(3,360 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 24, 2024, 08:01 PM - Edit history (1)
and then on to 'only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Europe may find peace.'
That said, I don't think intentionally conflating desire and need will illustrate any good-faith agruments to be made; quite the opposite I would guess.
marybourg
(12,634 posts)Get the Jews themselves to abandon Israel. Destruction from within; a sort of self- holocaust.
abandon Israel. To abandon the violence of Zionism.
marybourg
(12,634 posts)Israel was made war upon by its neighbors as soon as it was born. And then repeatedly thereafter. Should it have just rolled over, then? Any violence associated with Zionism has been foisted upon Israel by 75 years of violence by its neighbors.
claudette
(3,593 posts)The goal of pro-Palestinian activism is to STOP the deliberate and horrible murdering of innocent Palestinians to gain their land - under the guise of defeating Hamas.
marybourg
(12,634 posts)trigger *actual* retaliation. Just pretend retaliation under the guise of. The lives of Israelis arent even worth real outrage and horror.
Response to marybourg (Reply #49)
Post removed
Big Blue Marble
(5,150 posts)Is self-determination for Palestinians, for them to be free of
domination and occupation, to stop to theft of their lands.
It is what we all want, freedom and agency.
marybourg
(12,634 posts)Big Blue Marble
(5,150 posts)1. The original UN Partisan in which the Israelis were given a portion of Palestine.
2. The land that includes the areas of the Occupied West Bank that has illegally settled with the stated purpose to foreclose the possibility of a Two State Solution
3. The land that many Israelis call Eretz (Greater) Israel including the total West Bank
and Gaza.
In your rubric, are the Palestinians allowed to keep even the land that the UN
partitioned for them in 1948, or at least the West Bank and Gaza that Israel
occupied after the 1968 war in order to have their own state? At, this point,
they have been squeezed off of much to the land that the UN deemed for them.
niyad
(113,552 posts)much everything that the political propaganda known as the bible referred to aspects if Giddess worship. Hathor, the Golden Cow. The fig tree. The snake. The altars. That deity in the bible wasn't jealous of animals, but of the Goddesses they represented.
LW1977
(1,236 posts)question everything
(47,534 posts)in Columbia and other places. You are a Jew, regardless of your opinion about Israel and Zionism.
The marchers chanting Jews will not replace me aim at you, too.
Remember many whose families actually converted were not spared by the Nazis.
So might as well be proud of what the early Zionists made, built a place where Jews are not persecuted, where you will still be welcomed when you feel threatened.
Israel is a democracy. Many have protested against Netanyahu and will continue to do so. One day he will not be there.
Netanyahus push to weaken Israels Supreme Court divides nation | 60 Minutes
claudette
(3,593 posts)those who attack the protesters against the genocide in Gaza are considered anti-semitic when they are NOT. They are PRO-innocents.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)and they're therefore conflated. Even if they take pains to disavow that rhetoric.
Unless your contention is that the (presumed) Muslim protestors are not antisemites, but merely anti-Zionist?
claudette
(3,593 posts)the nationality of all the protesters. What does it matter. Normal compassionate people of ANY ethnic group can rightfully protest the deliberate murder of innocents in Gaza and West Bank or anywhere. They are not Hamas and have the right to let their opinion heard. WITHOUT violence.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)I'm surmising that most of the hateful, clearly antisemitic rhetoric is coming from Muslim protestors, who are (understandably) upset in a different way that most of the camping college students.
It matters because this is also a religious conflict, although most everyone is a Monotheist.
I didn't speculate on their nationality. I presume most are Americans.
LeftInTX
(25,551 posts)Too many youth are soaking up old fashioned conspiracy theories about Jews via social media.
(Jews own the banks. Jews own the media)
Muslims are likely the original source of those modern CT being spread via social media but once they are out there, they get passed among non-Muslims
Progressive Activism Against Israel Is Helping to Fuel Antisemitism Among Young People
Those under 30 are far more likely to view antisemitism as not a serious problem, particularly in comparison to Islamophobia and anti-Arab attitudes (even though Jews are six times more likely to be the victims of hate crimes than American Muslims).
Young people are more inclined to believe that Jews have too much power in America, and nearly one in four agree with the statement that the Holocaust has been exaggerated. In addition, according to a recent YouGov/Economist poll, 20 percent of young people believe the Holocaust is a myth, while 30 percent were unsure. And these attitudes pre-date Oct. 7.
For that, the pro-Palestinian activist community, which is increasingly legitimizing anti-Israel and anti-Jewish hatred, needs to accept some responsibility.
As Palestine has become a cause celebre among young, progressive activistsall the complexity of a century-old conflict has been wrung out and replaced with a simplistic framework that presents Israelis and Jews as fundamentally evil.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/progressive-activism-against-israel-is-helping-to-fuel-antisemitism-among-young-people
High school girls basketball game aborted in New York amid antisemitic slurs
During the game, which also reportedly turned physically violent, a Roosevelt player told a visiting Jewish opponent, I support Hamas, you f-cking Jew, The New York Post reported, citing the New York City Public Schools Alliance, a group of parents and teachers dedicated to combating antisemitism.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/high-school-girls-basketball-game-aborted-in-new-york-amid-antisemitic-slurs/
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)the explicitly antisemitic and pro-Hamas rhetoric is not coming from students at Columbia, but they are being tarred with it and trying to disavow it.
that's what the editor of the Columbia University student paper ( https://www.columbiaspectator.com/ ) was saying on Alex Wagner's show last night. smart kid.
malaise
(269,157 posts)Rec
Happy Hoosier
(7,386 posts)Apparently Jews must be content to live as subjects of states they must hop tolerate them. How dare they aspire to more. Fucking disgusting.
claudette
(3,593 posts)Jews subject to in Israel - other than the Israeli government. It is the Palestinians who Israel wants to "be content to live as subjects of states they must hope tolerate them. How dare they (Palestinians) aspire to more."
Happy Hoosier
(7,386 posts)Was to abandon zionism (support for a Jewish state in Israel) and embrace Judaism as an international movement. That is, Jews should only live ve is the diaspora.
Thats why I support Israel. Jews, given their history, deserve more than that if they want it.
PCIntern
(25,583 posts)Theres a whole movement within Judaism which subscribes to this puerile nonsense. I have walked out during sermons which have turned in this direction. The individual has the right to spout this and I have the right to leave in the middle.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)The clock cannot be turned back to 1946.
Israel dissolves itself and becomes a multi-ethnic state called Palestine? That won't erase fear.
Israeli Jews immigrate en masse to Utah? All the place names are ready thanks to the Mormons.
Zion is a fact on the ground.
Sibelius Fan
(24,396 posts)LauraInLA
(422 posts)Raven123
(4,862 posts)My recollection is there was a lot of fighting for land. I think the author is openly sharing her own struggles with the current situation, but it sure seems to miss some importance details. From what residence does the author write? What do you tell the people living in Israel? Leave?
I dont pretend to grasp the complexity of this centuries old conflict. I dont support Netanyahu. I just think there are some holes in this particular argument.
Mosby
(16,350 posts)jg10003
(976 posts)Our Judaism cannot be contained by an ethnostate, for our Judaism is internationalist by nature.
Judaism is international because we were expelled from our homeland by the Romans. Afterwards we were constantly expelled from one country after another. Spain,France, England, Germanic states, Russia, and many more forced us to seek refuge elsewhere. Judaism is internationalist due to persecution, not nature.
Our Judaism cannot be protected by the rampaging military of that state, for all that military does is sow sorrow and reap hatred including against us as Jews.
Israel is fighting a war against Hamas. Hamas hides behind civilians. Civilians get killed. Civilians always suffer when their government starts a war. Berlin, Dresden, The fire-bombing of Tokyo, and of course Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Every war is tragic. The only thing different about Gaza is that modern technology makes the horror of war a lot more visible now than in the past. As for reaping hatred, since when does hatred of the Jews need a reason to exist.
Our Judaism is not threatened by people raising their voices in solidarity with Palestine across lines of race, ethnicity, physical ability, gender identity and generations.
Hateful words lead to hateful acts. Violence against Jews is increasing. The slogan "from the river to the sea Palestine will be free" is a direct threat to the existence of Israel.
Our Judaism is one of those voices and knows that in that chorus lies both our safety and our collective liberation.
Cooperating with those who hate us will not make us safe.
madaboutharry
(40,220 posts)She boasts that her bat mitzvah speech was about how Jews are racists. Apparently, she arrived at this conclusion because of how she viewed her classmates at the Jewish school she attended in Montreal.
As the years passed, her hatred for Israel has only intensified and become more irrational. She does not engage in legitimate criticism of government policy or Israeli leadership. She is a hater. She has denigrated and demonized the Israeli people. She is exhibit 1A of Jews whose "Jewishness" serves one purpose: To take out as an entry ticket that bestows an imagined greater authority and moral high ground when demonizing Israel.
Naomi Klein is not this "good Jew" she seeks to present to the world. That is some conjured up image in the minds of antisemites, both Jewish and non-Jewish ones.
Naomi Klein is a Shanda to the Jewish people. She makes me want to throw up.
True Blue American
(17,988 posts)IronLionZion
(45,528 posts)I've seen similar opinion pieces on whether Israel's future is to be a Jewish state or a democracy. Because demographics make it a conflict to try to be a Jewish democracy for people there who are not Jewish.
If it was easy, it would have been resolved long ago. The world only has one Jewish state so the argument could be made to keep Israel Jewish. But what to do about the Palestinian people in the occupied territories? The prospect of leave or die shouldn't sit well with liberals. Many conservatives would like liberals to leave the USA, for example, or for immigrants/minorities to leave. So I don't like talk of forcing Gaza people to cross the border to Egypt. That feels biblical.
moniss
(4,274 posts)that the Israeli public in general is going to have to resolve regarding their leadership and political parties. If you look at the ideology of some of the coalition parties it is not a recipe for going forward away from extremism. But will the public reject Likud and the fringe in large enough numbers so that something more centrist can take over? No success in that so far.
Most people in the US only know a little about Likud but not much about the others in the coalition. Right now the coalition doesn't just lean radical right it is firmly in that territory. It is a legacy in some ways of the types of old leaders of Haganah, Irgun, Lehi. Stern Gang etc. having been embraced as political leaders and major figures in political parties. The anti-Arab, Jewish Supremacy/nationalist factions in some of those coalition partners is dogma.
So as Hamas/Hezbollah and others use the lives of the average Palestinian citizen as a thing they use to hide behind and justify their actions and extreme views so too do various political parties, leaders and groups in Israel do likewise with the average Israeli citizen.
So what will improve this awful situation? I don't know that it will be improved because I do not see anybody in the parties/factions on either side of the matter who is strong enough to stand up and make radical change in the direction of peace. Unfortunately there is no shortage of political cowards on all sides who find waging violence against each other and claiming revenge to be a much easier thing to do.
If Hamas and all the others disappeared tomorrow there will not be a separate Palestinian State agreed to because the radical right parties, including Likud, have said they will not allow it under any circumstances. Likud has said previously that all land between the river and the sea is to be Israel.
If all of the far right in Israel suddenly disappeared and Israel offered to remove all settlements, grant right of return, compensate for land etc. taken and to agree to a separate Palestinian state it would not mean Hamas, Hezbollah etc. is going to suddenly go away. They will likely in fact tighten their grip.
I can only observe and say that the "Gordian knot" here has been tied and constructed by many hands, acts and twists over time. Unlike Alexander there is no application of a sword available to cut through the knot. We see the knot drawn tighter with every move and it's riddle more complex. A knot that cannot be undone because all of the parties do not want it undone. The existence of the knot is used to justify their existence in power, their propaganda and their hollow promises to their people about how they care about them.