General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSEE THE OP EDIT . . Your best guess. Are the anti Jewish protester organizers paid in rubles or rials?
Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2024, 06:18 PM - Edit history (1)
These campus "protests" clearly have central command and control.
***************************
OP above
Edit below
From the OP: "protester organizers"
Those words do NOT refer to the people you see on Twitter, TicToc, the Evening Nooz, or cable nooz. They refer to whoever is sprinkling the gasoline and lighting the matches to stir up the people you see. The OPERATIVES. Payment refers to the operatives being paid. It takes money to stir up this shit.
The central question in the OP is who is paying for this, Iran? Russia?, Maybe China.
This is NOT ABOUT THE PROTESTERS YOU CAN SEE.
Now reread what you posted. Reading comprehension may well have changed what/how you replied.
getagrip_already
(14,891 posts)LexVegas
(6,114 posts)Hamas has done a masterful job of corralling Jewish hatred ...Hamas invades Israel, slaughters Israeli Jews and somehow Hamas and the Palestinians are the real victims...right!..
the way I see it..antisemites are fucking pissed because Israelis refuse to play the victim...
intheflow
(28,506 posts)Nothing happened before it, Hamas just woke up on Oct 7 and thought, Todays a good day to attack Israel. Plenty of war crimes and blame to go around on both sides, dating back decades, centuries, millennia. October 7 happened because the State of Israel had been hostile towards Palestinians, stealing land and denying water rights. It is not antisemitic, supporting terrorism or condoning Hamas to place October 7 in historical context and understand that Netanyahus disproportionate response has exactly proven the point Hamas was trying to make: Israels leadership treats Palestinians much like the Germans treated Jews in the decades leading up to WWII.
wnylib
(21,662 posts)on Israel/Palestine by Malcolm Nance.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/132220269
betsuni
(25,686 posts)wnylib
(21,662 posts)the Israel/Palestine issues in that video. The background explains what is happening there today.
Every poster on DU would benefit from seeing that video.
whathehell
(29,096 posts)Mr. Whathehell and I started to listen last night, then realized we were listening to p
Part 2 before hearing Part 1..Can you repost part 1 too?..Thanks again.
wnylib
(21,662 posts)The thread is at the Liberal You Tubers Forum.
whathehell
(29,096 posts)Coventina
(27,215 posts)My guess is a lot of it is coming from Putin's troll farms.
If Biden is taken down by the left, he wins so much. Ukraine will be just the beginning of what Trump gives him.
jimfields33
(16,015 posts)sarisataka
(18,821 posts)are doing it gratis
Stinky The Clown
(67,831 posts)The OP is about the top of the pyramid. They are not student protesters. They are not working gratis. They are paid professional operatives. The question is who is paying them.
My guess is the source money is Russian, then through Iran, then through some unnamed Hamas-linked operatives.
sarisataka
(18,821 posts)I think all roads lead to Moscow. I also think Putin views it as one of his best investments. Every ruble is returned threefold with instability in the Middle East, distraction from Ukraine and fractures in US politics.
Stinky The Clown
(67,831 posts)H2O Man
(73,637 posts)the FBI "knew" that both the anti-war and civil rights movement were funded and controlled by the Soviet Union. Both LBJ and Nixon pressured the agency to find those links. This included spying on Martin Luther King, Jr.
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)Tons of others, including my father, me, and an organization in which we both served in leadership roles.
H2O Man
(73,637 posts)Including many who were not really members of the movement.
I only know about my dad and me because the organization requested the files from the FBI and we were in them. There were a whole lot of people in there, including a bunch who were long-dead at the time they were doing their spying, as well as random people caught in the net.
wnylib
(21,662 posts)that they never did engage in any infiltrations or spy ops against the US throughout the Cold War. Bad US, good Soviets, then. Bad US, good Russians, Iranians, and Hamas today.
Wasn't that paranoid J. Edgar Hoover's FBI? His hatred of liberals, including the Kennedys was well known even then.
spied on the US mlitary. If anyone here can document their having anything to do with the anti-war or civil rights movement, I would request they post it ..... because the FBI couldn't find anything. The closest they came was studying the Beatles' "Back in the USSR."
maxsolomon
(33,432 posts)Jewish Voices for Peace? The Muslim protestors in every crowd?
Do you have anything that backs up your assertions?
Response to maxsolomon (Reply #21)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
tritsofme
(17,409 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,831 posts)womanofthehills
(8,781 posts)They are horrified by seeing dead and limbless children & babies on their phones everyday.
Almost all of my Jewish girlfriends married & had kids by non Jewish men Their young adult kids now have last names like Garcia, Romero, Tumer etc. American kids are way less into race than our generations. If I asked my grandkids if they knew any Jewish kids, they would not even really know what I was talking about - they are all mixed races.
Cha
(297,799 posts)and Jewish Professors, Smearing Jewish Businesses, are Ugly Antisemitics.
wnylib
(21,662 posts)between Jewish and non Jewish and aim their hatred directly at Jews.
Cha
(297,799 posts)for anyone defending them.
wnylib
(21,662 posts)EX500rider
(10,881 posts)Coventina
(27,215 posts)intheflow
(28,506 posts)It was agitators right off campus who yelled that and other antisemitic things. There is little indication that any Columbia student has been participating and engaging in antisemitism.
Coventina
(27,215 posts)intheflow
(28,506 posts)Like both of us, he only hears what's being reported by various people and news organizations. Also, I don't walk in lockstep with everything Biden does because that's the kind of thing Nazi's do. It is not my patriotic duty to blindly believe everything that comes out of the president's mouth, even a president I admire, respect, and voted for.
Coventina
(27,215 posts)yardwork
(61,715 posts)People named Garcia don't care about antisemitism? I know for a fact that you are wrong.
Sky Jewels
(7,171 posts)and its genocidal destruction of Gaza, not "Jews." Those are two very different things.
But you know that ... and choose to pretend otherwise.
Coventina
(27,215 posts)While every American has the right to peaceful protest, calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting Jewish students and the Jewish community are blatantly Antisemitic, unconscionable, and dangerous they have absolutely no place on any college campus, or anywhere in the United States of America, White House deputy press secretary Andrew Bates said in a statement, after video emerged on social media over the weekend that appeared to show pro-Palestinian activists telling Jewish students, The 7th of October is going to be every day for you, in reference to the deadly Hamas-led attack on Israel last fall.
Echoing the rhetoric of terrorist organizations, especially in the wake of the worst massacre committed against the Jewish people since the Holocaust, is despicable. We condemn these statements in the strongest terms, Bates added.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/21/chaos-columbia-jewish-moskowitz-santos-white-house-00153545
Stinky The Clown
(67,831 posts)but since you ask, while what you say may be true, it is also likely true that some of it is pure antisemitism..
In either case, DO NOT ascribe motive to my post because you have no fucking clue.
TheRealNorth
(9,500 posts)This post would have been removed.
Coventina
(27,215 posts)nocoincidences
(2,231 posts)When people are telling you who they are, believe them.
Go back to Poland? Does that sound like they don't like Bibi?
EX500rider
(10,881 posts)Cha
(297,799 posts)yardwork
(61,715 posts)I take people at their word.
wnylib
(21,662 posts)by the pro Hamas organizers mentioned in the OP.
It is a war, declared by Hamas on Israel. Israel is fighting to destroy Hamas. People who genuinely care about the Gaza civilians are misdirecting their anger, thanks to Hamas propaganda.
There is an excellent video at the Liberal YouTubers Forum by Malcolm Nance on Israel/Palestine that I highly recommend.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/132220269
progressoid
(50,000 posts)It is possible for people to protest without the help of an oligarch.
wnylib
(21,662 posts)threats at Jewish students. They don't need "oligarchs" except as a smoke screen to validate their anti-Semitism.
EllieBC
(3,042 posts)Jews will not replace us/Go back to Poland.
Same type of people. Jew hating trashbags.
If you mean farther up the food chain? Id guess Rials are being paid out often.
Ping Tung
(739 posts)Are the Dems who are calling for an end to providing arms to Israel anti-Semites? Bernie Sanders? Nancy Pelosi? Are they getting paid off?
When I was protesting the Vietnam slaughter I was called a Commie being paid off by (take your pick) the Kremlin, Chairman Mao, Che Guevara, Ho Chi Minh and other assorted Reds.
All the money must've gotten lost in the mail or I'd be rich according to Right Wing "Patriots" who wanted to lynch us.
EllieBC
(3,042 posts)Do keep up. We are speaking of the wave of antisemitism on campuses. The whole, go back to Poland thing which sounds eerily similar to, Jews will not replace us.
So yeah. Harassing Jewish students on US campuses makes you a piece of human trash.
Ping Tung
(739 posts)Are you calling the Jewish protesters against the killing and starving in Gaza "human trash"?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/22/us/campus-protest-seders.html
Polybius
(15,507 posts)Not everything is a conspiracy.
Cha
(297,799 posts)Elessar Zappa
(14,087 posts)Although Putins influence is certainly there as well.
Torchlight
(3,374 posts)And I figure there are some pretty easy guesses who a) benefits from western divisions, and b) who has the means (the political reach as well as the financing) to see it enacted. Applying that seems to whittle down the number to a level low enough and manageable enough for even me to take a guess that today's rubles are tomorrow's trump nft's.
jimfields33
(16,015 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,508 posts)Possibly both. Some probably have legitimate concerns, but I think most are doing it to be part of a cause that they view as trendy and for social media clout, which is a valuable commodity especially for that age group.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,374 posts)Jirel
(2,026 posts)Theyre real. Theyre unpaid. And it takes a very bitter, angry person to insist falsely that protestors with a view they dont like are paid in some kind of conspiracy.
EllieBC
(3,042 posts)At this point someone should set up a dating service for the far left and far right. They have their strong hatred of Jews in common.
yardwork
(61,715 posts)wnylib
(21,662 posts)the views of people who spew vitriolic hatred at American Jewish students, saying things like, "Go back to Poland (Auschwitz)," and, "By any means necessary."
My question is how so many people are so OK with obvious anti-Semitism that they try to gaslight the rest of us into not seeing or hearing what is being said and done by the protesters.
Reminds me of Father Coughlin, Charles Lindbergh, and Henry Ford in the 1930s.
Cha
(297,799 posts)Link to tweet
@Columbia
students right outside campus gates tonight.
Irish_Dem
(47,518 posts)Rebl2
(13,575 posts)been wondering the same. Why are people allowed on campus to protest that are not students there.
AloeVera
(997 posts)The student protesters are a different breed from the agitators including a few anti-semitic swine that are barred from campus and protest on the street, but whose voices are amplified in the media unfortunately.
Some of them manage to sneak onto campus and agitate and spew, tarnishing the students.
It's a shame.
Duncan Grant
(8,296 posts)Our govt has infiltrated protest movements in the past. Maybe the efforts to delegitimize pro-Palestinian protestors are an attempt to protect the status quo? It would make sense and its just as plausible as the OP.
There were right-wing racists among BLM protestors, who broke windows and burned buildings, etc. trying to discredit BLM. Its not a leap to think similar players are at work now.
BannonsLiver
(16,508 posts)Utterly ludicrous.
DJ Synikus Makisimus
(212 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2024, 06:48 PM - Edit history (1)
We wont know for months or years, or perhap will never know, if outside agitators have had any participation in the protests at Columbia University, WHICH I'D LIKE TO REMIND EVERYONE AT LEAST STARTED OUT AS A DIVESTMENT CAMPAIGN to get the University to sell the Israeli Government Bonds in it's portfolio (and presumably holdings in the Israeli War Industry and Surveillance sector), similar to the divestment campaigns against the South African government during the apartheid era.
Whether there were Hamas Agents or Mossad Agents or agents from the fucking Trilateral Commission and Illuminati flown in on U.N. black helicopters covered in tinfoil, the net effect has been to set folks at each others throats. I am reminded of the anarchist agitator who set fire to a Post Office during the police/protester standoff in Minneapolis after the George Floyd murder. That anarchist turned out to be a Boogaloo Boy who traded his dimestore aloha shirt for a black outfit, which everyone knows means youre an anarchist (whatever that means, but it must be bad).
We are in the fog of war period both in the Palestinian/Israeli and in the Ukrainian/Russian conflicts. Much of the infomation coming out cannot be trusted because its really easy to play on peoples biases if youre propaganda is of any quality (and I use that word hesitantly).
Im more interested in looking at the effects both of the protests on the war or U.S. policy (negligable) and the effects on U.S. politics that has resulted (huge). MAGAGOP Congresscritters in the House are taking advantage to bash elite universities. Thats a win for the anti-intellectual far right. AIPAC has committed a vast sum to get rid of progressive politicians, apparently whether they have said bad things about Israel or not. Thats a win for the right and far-right. Youthful protesters who oppose war are being bashed, and some of them will be discouraged from participation in politics forever (including voting). Thats a win for the right and far-right. I sense a pattern here.
So I urge folks to step back and think about what we think we know, as opposed to what weve heard or read about whats going on. Unless of course youre acting as an agent for one of the combatants. In that case I'm sure you would label yourself as such (uh-huh).
NOTE: Just to be clear, I don't take sides in blood feuds, especially not those that have been ongoing for 2000-3000 years. There are no political actors in this war that I'd wish to be associated with - on either side. The leadership elite of both political entities see hostility toward the other as a major key to their keeping power. They sound like MAGA GOPs magnified exponentially. I see no resolution, none of the people with power interested in peace, and only more bloodshed now and in the future. Therefore there's no one to support. People suffer when their leaders make them war. I DO, however, support the extension of aid for food deliveries and reconstruction wherever needed.
Coventina
(27,215 posts)Just wondering what your stance is on that.
sarisataka
(18,821 posts)This may take a while
DJ Synikus Makisimus
(212 posts)And attacks on Palestinian-Americans and Palestinian students studying abroad, and against Druze- and Samaritan- and Israeli-Arab-Bedoin Americans/students studying abroad. And any other victims of prejudicial bigoted attacks on the basis of skin color, religion or lack thereof, national origin, citizenship status, and so on. I must say I puzzle over the "at least."
Coventina
(27,215 posts)attacked, harassed, and intimidated.
Your post seemed to criticize getting involved in the issues at all.
I think when Americans are being attacked for what is going on in a foreign country is horrific.
I disagree with the protestors for many other things, but attacking people who have nothing to do with it is a display of bigotry that should be condemned in the strongest possible way (expulsion from the school, and if they are on a visa, expulsion from the country).
Torchlight
(3,374 posts)that sympathy is often trivialized to a variation of the All Lives Matter routine. So yeah, seriously: "step back and think about what we think we know..."
viva la
(3,333 posts)"Outside agitators! Foreign influence!"
wnylib
(21,662 posts)Although there were some outside agitators, from our own FBI COINTEL Program.
I have a hunch, though, that our adversaries abroad were not unhappy to see the polarization.
The problem with the current protests at places like Columbia is not that students are taking sides in a foreign conflict. The problem is in HOW they are doing it. They are attacking an ethnic/religious segment of the US population with bigoted, hate-filled slogans and threats. Their rhetoric defines them as anti-Semitic.
"Peace will come when they love their own children more than they hate Israel." - Golda Meir.
Mosby
(16,384 posts)Of course not, she is protesting against Israel because she thinks they are guilty of something. A lot of the kids protesting at Columbia come from very wealthy families, they don't need anyone's money. Same with the kids from the gulf who attend college here.
DBoon
(22,403 posts)Accusing protestors opposed to the war of being foreign agents lent comfort to those perpetuating brutal atrocities against civilians. Napalm, toxic defoliants, fragmentation bombs of plastic projectiles that x-rays could not see, ...
Chainfire
(17,663 posts)Gaza and would like to see the killing stop. What happened in October was horrible, what is happening in Gaza is horrible squared. Israel is trying to kill their way to security and I don't give the policy much of a chance to succeed in the long run. Israel has spent a hell of a lot of good will in the last few months. There may come a day when they deeply regret how they have been prosecuting this "war." All of my life I have been a defender and supporter of the Israeli State and the people, but I can not excuse what they are doing today. There is just too damn many dead civilians in Gaza.
Coventina
(27,215 posts)And that's just the CHILDREN, per the UN.
Chainfire
(17,663 posts)EX500rider
(10,881 posts)Coventina
(27,215 posts)Are the Sudanese not real people?
Response to Coventina (Reply #87)
Post removed
Coventina
(27,215 posts)Chainfire
(17,663 posts)Coventina
(27,215 posts)"Go back to Poland" (Auschwitz)
"By any means necessary"
"Oct 7th will be every day for you"
Chainfire
(17,663 posts)And anyone who defends their right to protest? If the protestors are breaking the law, arrest the lawbreakers. It is that simple. In my opinion, protesting ain't nearly as bad as bombing relief providers, women, children, etc. Perhaps my moral code is off kilter.
People keep stating as fact, or back-handedly insinuating, that anyone who has any empathy for the Palestinians is anti-Semetic may find that the empathetic parties come to believe it themselves.
Coventina
(27,215 posts)American Jews specifically.
Silence is consent and approval.
The death of non-combatants in any war is a terrible thing. And every war has them.
Hamas started this and could end it tomorrow by releasing their hostages and surrendering for their crimes.
They choose, intentionally, to put their own people in harm's way.
That is an actual war crime.
Empathy for any suffering is not hateful, but these protests are not empathetic in any way I can see.
They should be fundraising for relief causes, not screaming at Jews that they should be in death camps.
ecstatic
(32,747 posts)They are enjoying seeing us fracture. I'm steeling myself for what's ahead this fall.
Many of these are students, and unfortunately faculty who are known. This is our internal problem
ecstatic
(32,747 posts)Ontheboundry
(91 posts)A student driven movement now. I mean faculty are involved. . How we gonna tie GOP to this. They are gonna let us burn this up without giving us any help
ecstatic
(32,747 posts)The goal is to further divide us by pretending to be from the left and organizing or instigating protests, etc. They've done this in the past as well.
Ontheboundry
(91 posts)They don't need to do anything . We are doing ng a fine job all by ourselves most of these protestors are not unknowns, and from local university groups.
LeftInTX
(25,607 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2024, 11:38 PM - Edit history (2)
You would be surprised how tight-knit some ethnic groups can be. We have Palestinians in the US who are in touch with Palestinians overseas who are in touch with Hamas or Hezbollah just disgruntled Palestinians over there. We also have tons of Lebanese in the US.
All Iran has to do is provide support for organizing etc. It's not a stretch and it doesn't cost much money. Although Iranians don't speak Arabic, they manage to communicate effectively with Hezbollah and Hamas.
I'm thinking a Lebanon Hezbollah connection is quite common. Many years ago, a Palestinian college student who hung with our group was affiliated with the PLO.
That imam who was chanting "Death to America" over in Dearborn spent years studying in Iran. (He's born and raised in the US)
Iran definitely has more opportunity. Although we associate Russia with agitators, crisis actors etc, Iran does a pretty good job themselves. Khomeini spent decades at this himself creating drama. Vile man blamed the shah's father for his father's death in 1905. (Yep 1905) The shah's father did not become a shah until 20 years after Khomeini's father died. Additionally, the Iranian royalty switched families, so there was no connection. The future shah was in the Iran Cossacks up in the Caucacus and Khomeini grew up in a different part of the country. Khomeini just made up victim bullshit to justify his religious coup.
betsuni
(25,686 posts)enid602
(8,659 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 23, 2024, 07:51 PM - Edit history (1)
Who paid Vietnam Nam era protesters?
keithbvadu2
(36,962 posts)MAGAs believed $99 "Trump Bucks" could be cashed for $10K, "Now I realize, well, that was stupid"
Trump Supporters Scammed By Novelty ItemsTrump BucksAdvertised As Legal Tender