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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAn Israeli bomb destroyed 4,000 embryos at a Gaza IVF centre. Where is the outrage?
The majority of Gazas frozen embryos have been destroyed
If you, or someone you love, has ever had fertility issues, you will know just how heavy an emotional toll they can take. IVF, in particular, is not easy. You have to inject yourself with hormones. Then you undergo anaesthesia and have an operation to retrieve the eggs. Then the embryos are made. Finally, you implant the embryos. Its a long, expensive and involved process that can take a physical and emotional toll. At the end, you hope itll all be worth it. At the end, you hope there will be a baby.
For many families in Gaza, those hopes were permanently wiped out by one Israeli missile strike. In December, an Israeli shell, possibly provided by the US, hit Gaza Citys largest fertility clinic, the Al Basma IVF centre. The explosion, according to a Reuters piece that came out this week, blasted the lids off five liquid nitrogen tanks stored in a corner of the embryology unit. More than 4,000 embryos were destroyed, along with 1,000 more specimens of sperm and unfertilized eggs.
One single strike. Thats all it took. One single strike and thousands of potential lives were wiped out. For at least half of the couples who were patients at the clinic, many of whom had saved up for years to afford treatments, those embryos were their last chance to get pregnant, Bahaeldeen Ghalayini, the obstetrician who established the clinic told Reuters.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/20/israel-destroyed-embryos-bombing-ivf-center-gaza
Devastating for so many people! Very sad news!
David__77
(23,549 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,493 posts)Celerity
(43,581 posts)(that would be MIRT'ed quite quickly) there are no legit posters here who would post a celebration over an Iranian bombing of an Israeli IVF centre.
That is just a scurrilous, beyond the pale personal group attack.
Shameful to see this dross tossed out here.
claudette
(3,605 posts)only Iran bad - Israel good - in today's mixed up world.
malaise
(269,201 posts)That is all
pfitz59
(10,398 posts)Kushner wants the land.
I think that is right. They will never recover and that is the goal of the current Israeli government - to take over all the land that belongs to the Palestinians.
littlemissmartypants
(22,839 posts)He's a sick mfer.
electric_blue68
(14,956 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,488 posts)Usually, there are 7 donated viable embryos per single procedure. Only one is being used for actual fertilization. According to CDC,
https://www.cdc.gov/art/artdata/index.html#:~:text=Based%20on%20CDC%27s%202021%20Fertility,and%2097%2C128%20live%20born%20infants.
This comes down to about 414,000 of the nearly 3 million donated embryos being used at all, resulting in about 92,000, or roughly 1 in 32, or 3% of donated embryos ending in live births. And that doesn't take into account the donors who never use their embryos, or the fact that assisted reproductive technology is far more advanced in the US than it is in Gaza.
3% would have been the best outcome were there no war in Gaza. So if IDF gets to be blamed for the destruction of 4,000 fertilized eggs now, who gets the blame for destroying 97% of the fertilized eggs prior to the war? A Zionist conspiracy by complicit Palestinian fertility specialists in Gaza?
But let's put our Handmaids Tale outfits on, but only for long enough to condemn IDF for killing future Palestinian babies, shall we? And while we are at it, let's count all the sperm donations that the terrorists were prevented from making by IDF!
...Oh wait, The Guardian is already doing that: "along with 1,000 more specimens of sperm and unfertilized eggs."
agingdem
(7,863 posts)let me guess..Hamas's "we're the victims" PR "machine"?....
BannonsLiver
(16,493 posts)phylny
(8,390 posts)who want to have a baby. Our daughter went through hell and a lot of expense for their five embryos and is expecting their first, our grandson, in August after an ectopic pregnancy burst one fallopian tube.
They would have been devastated if their entire hope for a family was wiped out in one fell swoop.
Lets start acting like it matters to others.
BannonsLiver
(16,493 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2024, 12:10 AM - Edit history (1)
Gaza is supposedly uninhabitable yet Ive read here from folks who desperately want children to be born into that. Pick a lane.
phylny
(8,390 posts)Good lord.
BannonsLiver
(16,493 posts)David__77
(23,549 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,488 posts)" Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.
That was in 1973, and she has yet to be proven wrong.
David__77
(23,549 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,488 posts)But that's a deflection and you know it full well, don't you?
yagotme
(2,928 posts)since the formation of Israel? They are CONSTANTLY launching rockets at Israel. Imagine, what would be happening in Israel for the past several years, if it wasn't for Iron Dome and other anti-missile systems. The Israeli death toll would be MUCH higher. Would that make you feel better?
meadowlander
(4,406 posts)Gaza isn't always going to be a war zone and they may not end up living in Gaza forever. But now if they do at any point in the future want to have children, it may no longer be a possibility (for example, for couples that froze embryos before one or the other become infertile or died).
Just because people pre-October 2023 had access to IVF (and chemo, and other medical treatments that can cause infertility, etc.) doesn't mean that a country where 30,000 people have been killed in the past six months and half a million people are facing famine is "inhabitable".
Both of those things (people should be able to they become parents if and when they choose to and it's sad when that is taken away from them and Gaza is in a humanitarian crisis) can easily be true. No lane-picking necessary.
Response to meadowlander (Reply #30)
Post removed
meadowlander
(4,406 posts)AloeVera
(976 posts)They should have known their land would be made uninhabitable by a raging military machine.
Perhaps poor people shouldn't have children either. Certainly not refugees.
The entitlement of these people!
In case it's needed.
BannonsLiver
(16,493 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2024, 12:07 AM - Edit history (1)
AloeVera
(976 posts)Which is basically that Palestinian children should not be born now, into such a world.
So this is how it goes. Destroy a people's land and all they know, immiserate and desolate them including their children, and then use that horrific circumstance to argue that, for the sake of the children! it's best not to bring them into that horrific world.
There are a million children living in that unimaginably ugly world right now. Anyone who has not opposed this "war" can't make the claim now to have the best interests of children at heart.
Yes, Gaza is now uninhabitable as it was planned to be so. But those childless couples desparate to have kids would likely have made great parents by the simple fact that they wanted that child. To destroy their desparate hope, on top of everything else they've had to endure is really kicking people in the teeth when they are already down.
I'm in the lane that opposes that.
Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #7)
David__77 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Deliberately Destroying even unborn Palestinians is ok with you?
NoRethugFriends
(2,343 posts)claudette
(3,605 posts)Israels reasoning for killing embryos except to avoid more Palestinians being born? Use some common sense
NoRethugFriends
(2,343 posts)claudette
(3,605 posts)you're truly misunderstanding my words. Bye. I'm done.
NoRethugFriends
(2,343 posts)And I don't care whether you are done.
Hope22
(1,879 posts)The loss is more than You can imagine.
who kill them deliberately know that and dont care
Hope22
(1,879 posts)A new target for their sickness!
claudette
(3,605 posts)LeftInTX
(25,595 posts)Butterflylady
(3,550 posts)To make sure that they're killing Palestinians that aren't even born. Now that sounds like genocide to me.
Mosby
(16,377 posts)Is that genocide?
David__77
(23,549 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,488 posts)Are you talking about women or the "babies"?
In an overwhelming number of instances both the abortions and the donation of embryos are not forced. So it is not the women you are referring to.
I would love for you to explain the difference between embryos and fetuses when the Magat concept of "personhood" is what you are essentially arguing.
Have fun trying to force a square peg of your response into the round hole of the outrage you are demanding. Or explaining why this is not the argument you are making.
Abolishinist
(1,316 posts)Adults and most by choice. Didnt you think before posting this? Sheesh!
Mosby
(16,377 posts)Do you or anyone else have evidence that Israel intentionally destroyed the embryos and eggs? So how the fuck is that genocide?
claudette
(3,605 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,449 posts)Color me surprised.
TheCynic56
(47 posts)Its spelled Israel.
Mossfern
(2,566 posts)Spelling?
Honestly? ..........
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,449 posts)Seems we have our own human spell checker right here on DU.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,449 posts)and neither did I, but I'm quite sure you get the gist of my post.
lapucelle
(18,356 posts)I like reading profiles to get to know new members.
AZSkiffyGeek
(11,087 posts)Wisconsin isnt a town, its a state.
TheCynic56
(47 posts)Wisconsin is correct. Read again!! 🤦🏼
The field for this states, Hometown/State/Region. ✌🏼
claudette
(3,605 posts)Anti semitic. Anti Israeli out of control revenge on innocent Palestinians. Please learn the difference
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,449 posts)LOL, that's rich.
claudette
(3,605 posts)Lots of Jews - even those in my family - are totally against what the Israeli government is doing in Gaza and the West Bank. They certainly aren't anti-semitic.
Mountainguy
(545 posts)and that's why raping, killing, and mutilating jews was ok for them.
They have IVF centers in open-air prisons?
It seems like many of you like to ignore that Gazans, with aid from Iran, started this war. They put and kept Hamas in power. The only political rivals Hamas has in Gaza also want to kill Jews. On Oct 7th, many groups besides Hamas, including "civilians' entered Israel and joined in on the pillage.
Celerity
(43,581 posts)For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces
The premiers policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group. The idea was to prevent Abbas or anyone else in the Palestinian Authoritys West Bank government from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad. Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.
Israeli officials said these permits, which allow Gazan laborers to earn higher salaries than they would in the enclave, were a powerful tool to help preserve calm. Toward the end of Netanyahus fifth government in 2021, approximately 2,000-3,000 work permits were issued to Gazans. This number climbed to 5,000 and, during the Bennett-Lapid government, rose sharply to 10,000.
Since Netanyahu returned to power in January 2023, the number of work permits has soared to nearly 20,000. Additionally, since 2014, Netanyahu-led governments have practically turned a blind eye to the incendiary balloons and rocket fire from Gaza. Meanwhile, Israel has allowed suitcases holding millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza through its crossings since 2018, in order to maintain its fragile ceasefire with the Hamas rulers of the Strip.
snip
Buying Quiet: Inside the Israeli Plan That Propped Up Hamas
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gambled that a strong Hamas (but not too strong) would keep the peace and reduce pressure for a Palestinian state.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html
Just weeks before Hamas launched the deadly Oct. 7 attacks on Israel, the head of Mossad arrived in Doha, Qatar, for a meeting with Qatari officials. For years, the Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month into the Gaza Strip money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them. During his meetings in September with the Qatari officials, according to several people familiar with the secret discussions, the Mossad chief, David Barnea, was asked a question that had not been on the agenda:
Did Israel want the payments to continue? Mr. Netanyahus government had recently decided to continue the policy, so Mr. Barnea said yes. The Israeli government still welcomed the money from Doha. Allowing the payments billions of dollars over roughly a decade was a gamble by Mr. Netanyahu that a steady flow of money would maintain peace in Gaza, the eventual launching point of the Oct. 7 attacks, and keep Hamas focused on governing, not fighting. The Qatari payments, while ostensibly a secret, have been widely known and discussed in the Israeli news media for years.
Mr. Netanyahus critics disparage them as part of a strategy of buying quiet, and the policy is in the middle of a ruthless reassessment following the attacks. Mr. Netanyahu has lashed back at that criticism, calling the suggestion that he tried to empower Hamas ridiculous. In interviews with more than two dozen current and former Israeli, American and Qatari officials, and officials from other Middle Eastern governments, The New York Times unearthed new details about the origins of the policy, the controversies that erupted inside the Israeli government and the lengths that Mr. Netanyahu went to in order to shield the Qataris from criticism and keep the money flowing.
The payments were part of a string of decisions by Israeli political leaders, military officers and intelligence officials all based on the fundamentally flawed assessment that Hamas was neither interested in nor capable of a large-scale attack. The Times has previously reported on intelligence failures and other faulty assumptions that preceded the attacks. Even as the Israeli military obtained battle plans for a Hamas invasion and analysts observed significant terrorism exercises just over the border in Gaza, the payments continued. For years, Israeli intelligence officers even escorted a Qatari official into Gaza, where he doled out money from suitcases filled with millions of dollars.
snip
yagotme
(2,928 posts)Or was it their own decision?
AZSkiffyGeek
(11,087 posts)Mountainguy
(545 posts)Your saying that Israel proped up Hamas by allowing aid in and allowing Gazans to travel into Israel and work for higher wages.
So your point is that instead they should have denied aid and kept Gazans inside of Gaza, in q 20 year long seige to starve them out. That is what you think should have been done?
I guess you approve of the current war footing then. I think it's extreme to do that during a cease fire, but inguess your pretty hawkish on Gaza.
lapucelle
(18,356 posts)At least there were no giant pictures.
Celerity
(43,581 posts)littlemissmartypants
(22,839 posts)lapucelle
(18,356 posts)Mountainguy
(545 posts)RandySF
(59,360 posts)would that give you a free pass to commit murder? Hamas and Netanyahu both need to be dealt with.
ExciteBike66
(2,376 posts)Hamas' actions justify anything and everything?
JanMichael
(24,894 posts)But bummer on the bomb.
RockRaven
(15,019 posts)so I don't see why anyone would be surprised at the lack of outrage... Their happiness at fewer Palestinians being born probably wipes out, more or less, their unhappiness at frozen cell clumps being destroyed.
And for those who aren't embryo fetishists, this is merely another instance in a huge pile of property destruction so from an outrage standpoint it doesn't cause a spike but rather a marginal move of the needle.
meadowlander
(4,406 posts)I'm pro-choice and I don't believe in fetal personhood. But I'm also transgender and when I get gender affirming surgery I'm going to have to decide whether or not to freeze my eggs and once I do that's it. They then represent the entire possibility of my ever being able to have my own biological children. And that actually means something to me beyond just a few bits of biological matter in a test tube (i.e. property).
It's the difference between bombing a shoe factory and bombing the Vatican. They're both buildings but one of them has greater symbolic meaning which comes from being unique and irreplaceable.
AloeVera
(976 posts)Things must be getting desperate.
I don't see any other "justification" for bombing a fertility clinic. Might there be any other reasons?
Mountainguy
(545 posts)A building that likely had independent power capabilities. Would have been a clear place for them to use.
Do you think Hamas is worried about protecting frozen embryos when they are ok sacrificing their living children to fight Israel?
pfitz59
(10,398 posts)They'll get right on it.
LeftInTX
(25,595 posts)Wonder Why
(3,266 posts)is hell. Were there Hamas anti-air defenses on the roof? Did the Israelis purposely decide to hit an IVF facility to get rid of potentially future Gazans? Is it as bad as hitting a hospital intentionally or accidentally? The same? Is it as bad as massacring civilians by either side? Worse?
RandySF
(59,360 posts)bottomofthehill
(8,351 posts)TexasDem69
(1,850 posts)Among the usual suspects accusing Israel of some trumped-up atrocity
David__77
(23,549 posts)iemanja
(53,074 posts)I understand this may seem heretical, but I actually believe each life has value, regardless of the religion of the deceased.
RandySF
(59,360 posts)And who verified them?
iemanja
(53,074 posts)Even if you choose to disbelieve the numbers released by the Health Ministry, you can see the devastation with your own eyes on the news coverage. I didn't cite the health ministry numbers, which are around 35,000. I gave a more general, much lower number, but you want to pretend that thousands haven't died in a many months long war. It's absurd to the point of being morally unconscionable.
How hard is it to recognize that Muslim civilian life has value just as Jewish civilians do?
TexasDem69
(1,850 posts)All dead because of Hamas brutality
iemanja
(53,074 posts)killing thousands of Israelis, but they did not kill the thousands dead in Gaza. That was the IDF.
RandySF
(59,360 posts)iemanja
(53,074 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2024, 11:10 PM - Edit history (1)
yet Israel isn't bombing Qatar. Perhaps that's because the IDF's goal isn't to take out the Hamas leadership at all but rather to rid Palestine of all Muslims. They have floated plans to remove all Palestinians from the region. I once posted about 15 links to articles on that subject when someone questioned that point. Of course, they never acknowledged the evidence.
Leaving that aside, the Hamas leadership is relatively small, yet the numbers of Gazans killed are large---mostly civilians. The IDF knows most of the people they are killing are civilians, yet they continue to bomb. Their actions speak loudly.
TexasDem69
(1,850 posts)Would be alive had Hamas animals not raped, kidnapped and murdered over 1,000 civilians. Those horrific crimes caused the current conflict and any resulting deaths. Thats the point you need to keep in mind.
iemanja
(53,074 posts)Do you know anything about the Israeli--Palestinian conflict before Oct 7, 2023? It didn't start then.
There have been many attacks on Gaza and the West bank previous to that date, many killings of Palestinians. That does not justify what Hamas did. There is no justification for their actions. But nor does it justify the IDF's behavior, as you are seeking to do.
DaBronx
(305 posts)Last edited Sun Apr 21, 2024, 09:31 PM - Edit history (1)
Cause I was. And I cant recall a single
Person saying we shouldnt go ahead and bomb the shit out of those responsible.
October 7 was Israels 9/11. I guess most people have no idea what that must feel like.
I couldnt give a rats backside about what terror is rained upon Hamas. If innocent people are killed, thats the fault mostly of Hamas. Yes Netanyahu must go, and yes the war has been painfully tragic, but Hamas is the cause and I have no apologies for Israel defending itself.
claudette
(3,605 posts)not genocide? Even the unborn Palestinians are targets of terrorists. Shame on Israeli military
lapucelle
(18,356 posts)revmclaren
(2,533 posts)to find these days in the news. Not enough ''children' or 'babies ' poping up in key word searches on the usual websites and sources.
It boggles the mind that embryos are now suddenly the new weapon in the 'blame the Jews' arsenal in this important time of fighting for women's lives over unborn fetuses.
IMHO of course.
Response to David__77 (Original post)
RandySF This message was self-deleted by its author.