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Life begins at conception: Reducing complex reality to a slogan actually minimizes the personhood of women
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The development of a potential human life requires conception as a first step. But that is not the same as either pregnancy or personhood. You cant reduce complex reality to a slogan, and when you try to do so, you actually minimize the personhood of women.
http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2012/11/25/life-begins-at-conception-reducing-complex-reality-to-a-slogan-actually-minimizes-the-personhood-of-women/
niyad
(113,582 posts)profound hatred for women, not just debating their personhood.
Excellent signature line you have! Fitting.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)Until modern science gave us genetic theory, humans believed for thousands of years that women were just vessels, going back to the days when people did not understand the actual "mechanics" of human sexuality. Oh, people knew that sex intercourse was how babies were made, but they had no understanding that sperm determined the sex of children and that the number of available eggs determined whether a woman carried only one child or twins, triplets.
The church even taught that women were inherently evil, lustful, sinful and merely vessels for men's progeny. Women were blamed for bearing girls, rather than boys. Women were shut away, "protected" because men thought that was the only way to be certain that they were the biologic fathers. Patrimony is all about power and accumulating wealth.
We will never have a better world until women are respected and our status raised educationally, economically, and politically.
patrice
(47,992 posts)They reduce the life of the mother to their artificial abstraction, because they do not respect individual women's lives, ONLY fetuses.
To me, that lack of respect, proves that they are not Pro-Life at all. The lack of respect for life, including the real lives of real women, is PRO-DEATH.
sheshe2
(83,928 posts)in Ireland last week!
I am sure you read that one here.Tried to find the link.
Found it!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/14/ireland-woman-dies-after-abortion-refusal
sheshe2
(83,928 posts)it was the headline of the article...
WillyT
(72,631 posts)patrice
(47,992 posts)You are correct, Patrice!
It is definitely about Power!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 26, 2012, 02:56 AM - Edit history (1)
And those who go along with it need to face what they are doing to others, that, truth to be told, they don't give a flying flip about and will never meet.It is the height of arrogance for them to indulge themselves with the frivolous luxury of ordering the lives of others they will never comprehend nor be responsible for.
sheshe2
(83,928 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)sheshe2
(83,928 posts)LeftInTX
(25,563 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)that personhood DOES begin at conception.
But you confused two different statements. You said "life begins at contraception" and "this is not a person." Those are two different things entirely.
There is no scientific argument against the fact that an embryo is life. It is. A simple amoeba is life. But there is disagreement on whether it is A HUMAN BEING. That's what those personhood laws are all about...that it's a PERSON.
LIFE:
1.The condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional...
2.Living things and their activity: "some sort of life existed on Mars".
sheshe2
(83,928 posts)I believe what was meant by "Life begins at Conception"... is the slogan that so many pro-lifers use.With that slogan, they reduce the complex reality of the true nature in their move to make into law person hood for the fetus...therefore minimizing the person hood of women.
Did that come out right? Tired after a long day at work.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)The implication of so-called personhood laws is that an actual living woman is less a person than is a group of human cells.
My logic has always been towards reducing suffering.
By following the "life" argument, you could end up questioning whether a tumor has the right to life.
And in the end, such ideologies--Life or Personhood-- still value the life of a woman below the life of a cell.
sheshe2
(83,928 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)An embryo or even a fetus suffers little in comparison to a living woman (not to mention everyone connected with her) forced into reproduction against her will.
It's like an analogy I heard once; if you burst into a laboratory that's on fire in order to save the people inside, and you see a woman (or a little boy. Or a young woman. Or an older man. Etc.) and you also see an incubator of live human embryos, which do you save?
That's the problem with ideologues. They don't think about the real life consequences of their abstracted, reflexive beliefs.
sheshe2
(83,928 posts)The woman that is raped, faced to carrying her baby to term. Her spirit and sanity in jeopardy. How will that affect the child?
The woman that already carries the burden of poverty. Forced to bear a child that she will be unable to provide for.How will that affect the child.
What of cases of incest.Again how will that affect the child.
The consequences of all this...they will only care about a fetus. When the fetus becomes a child then they turn their collective backs on them.
School lunches, nope...healthcare nope... food stamps (lazy moochers)! Oh lest we forget...birth control for mother's that would prevent unwanted pregnancies (LOL)! However we will pay for Viagra For MEN! Is this hurting your head yet? It is hurting mine.
Thanks Blanche for your response.
She
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,771 posts)If you burst into a laboratory that's on fire in order to save the people inside, and you see a woman (or a little boy. Or a young woman. Or an older man. Etc.) and you also see an incubator of live human embryos, which do you save?
Thank you for posting.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)and I was nearly run off the board. But I do think that any growth that has to rely on a host organism to survive is not a separate entity but part of the host and the host has the right to decides whether it wants to keep it or remove it. I believe an embryo that can't survive outside of the womb is not a separate being at that time and the mother has a right to remove that clump of cells if she so desires.
Freddie
(9,275 posts)When four cells in my uterus have more rights than I do, that's making me less than a human being.
When the diseased secretions of a rapist have more rights than the woman, that's a slap in the face to every woman.
safeinOhio
(32,727 posts)the first thing I ask is "how many babies have YOU adopted".
AAO
(3,300 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)It began around 4 billion years ago and has been evolving along since.
UtahLib
(3,179 posts)You have given me the gift of being even better informed and more capable of presenting a logical response to idealogical nonsense.
ErikJ
(6,335 posts)But the Bible says its a person upon thwe first breath.
We celebrate the Birthday-not the conceptionday.
2naSalit
(86,802 posts)it's a control-freak issue. As is rape, it's about taking control away from women, in some cases males, but mostly it's women who are raped. And when that happens it's usually the woman who is blamed for being raped rather than the rapist. It's also quite true that the male has only a few minutes of investment in that conception and the woman who is making a lifetime of contribution as they are usually the ones made to be responsible for the being who is conceived and all that entails.
I agree, it's about hatred of women, men have some kind of psychological problem about the fact that women have the ability to bear children and they have made a culture or cult of making the lives of women hellish because of it. And the fact that they can't seem to control their lustful imaginings and that women are supposed to acquiesce to the desires of men simply because they have them.
I think that all these politicians who use their ideology to dehumanize women need to get their politics out of women's private life choices or get the hell out of office. They don't want women to have any control over their lives because they are afraid of the nonviolent choices women make, like spending all the taxpayer funds on wars and the like. And separation of church and state is a mandate in the Constitution, there seems to be some conveniently selective amnesia about that among too many in office.
Several segments of Melissa Harris-Perry's show on Sunday addressed this and other key elements of the problems male politicos are creating for women... (Some segments include Dr. Anita Hill)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46979745/#__utma=34328804.2552372.1352052839.1352052839.1352052839.1&__utmb=34328804.2.10.1352052839&__utmc=34328804&__utmx=-&__utmz=34328804.1352052839.1.1.utmcsr=%28direct%29|utmccn=%28direct%29|utmcmd=%28none%29&__utmv=-&__utmk=89456153
sheshe2
(83,928 posts)let's see how much more we can do in 2014!
Let's roll!
niyad
(113,582 posts)snot
(10,538 posts)Something with the I.Q. of a carrot is not a person.
AlexSatan
(535 posts)If an egg (fertilized or not) is not an animal and no animals are harmed in "harvesting" them, are vegans ok with eating eggs?
Sorry, this graphic just made this question pop into my head.
noamnety
(20,234 posts)Vegans don't eat any animal products, including milk, butter, etc.
They are individuals, with individual reasons for not eating animal products, which can be health reasons, animal rights reasons, environmental impact, etc.
My vegan daughter for instance does not eat honey. She does not believe that honey is an animal.
AlexSatan
(535 posts)Personally, I don't understand things like not eating honey but to each his own.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)My reasoning is that no chicken had to be killed for the eggs.
AlexSatan
(535 posts)Thanks for your answer!
yardwork
(61,712 posts)Women are chattel to be controlled. That's the belief system of the people behind these laws. Men know best and have the God-given right to control the bodies and minds of women, who are lesser and can't be expected to make rational decisions on their own behalf. Children are also the property of the men. Women who understand this "Biblical family structure" and go along with it will be rewarded by men. Women who don't go along with it will be killed. That's the belief system in a nutshell.
Response to sheshe2 (Original post)
Post removed
sheshe2
(83,928 posts)It sounds to me that you believe the rights of the fetus are more important than a womans.
It is my belief that everyone has the right to freedom of speech.That said.
If you are anti-choice. Then you are on the wrong thread!
Cleita
(75,480 posts)The real question is when is human life able to exist outside the mother?
2naSalit
(86,802 posts)they were trying to make that the law this past few months, AZ or MO or some scary state for women like that.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)You know all that sperm they spill on various occasions for various reasons?
2naSalit
(86,802 posts)not that fairness is of any concern to these individuals, if life begins before conception then you would be correct and to take it to its logical origin, men could be considered in violation of that law as they produce new sperm on a daily basis... so where does that lead to? These frightening pogroms make soooo much sense, to those who can't figure out this simple biological fact that should've been clear had they been paying attention in school.
sheshe2
(83,928 posts)Huff post piece!
AlexSatan
(535 posts)Eventually, I have no doubt a human womb will not be necessary.
ProudProgressiveNow
(6,129 posts)sheshe2
(83,928 posts)to whomever Alerted on Catch the Spit (eeeew what a Name! )