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H2O Man

(73,543 posts)
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 03:06 PM Mar 28

Sanctimonious

" I made the pont that the liberals had stood with Clinton while the DLC people had deserted him and described the miserable (Joe) Lieberman as a 'sanctimonious prick.' Hillary said, 'Well, he is cartainly sanctimonious,' but showed no eagerness to pursue this line of thought." -- Journals 1952 - 2000 ; Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.; Penguin, 2007, page 837.


This discussion between Arthur and Hillary took place at at White House event well before Al Gore was the Democratic Party's presidential nominee. Thus, they were not talking about Joe Liberman as a potential choice for vice president. Indeed, they agreed on a word that, dating back to the early 1600s, has never been a compliment.

Al Gore had picked Warren Christopher to conduct his VP search. Arthur suggested two good choices -- George Mitchell and Chris Dodd. But Christopher picked Lieberman, who Gore would telll Schlesinger had been his 4th on the list. Arthur expressed his outrage:

"Lieberman is not only sanctimonious but a hypocrite -- the 'conscience of the Senate' got there by defeating a fine liberal Lowell Weicker in one of the nastiest campaigns in recent history. Lieberman is also president of the Democratic Leadership Conference, the Republican wing of the Democratic party ...." (page 847)

"Joe Lieberman, though he refrained in his acceptance speech from attributing his nomination to the personal intervention of the Almighty, cannot keep his wretched sanctimony out of the campaign. On 27 August he gave a speech in Detroit declaring that belief in God is the basis of morality and the American republic.One wonders why the Founding Fathers did not bother to mention God in the Constitution. 'As a people,' Holy Joe opined, 'we need to reaffirm our faith and renew the dedication of our nation and ourselves to God and God's pirpose.' Lincoln had it better in his second inaugural, 'The Almighty has his own purposes.' " (page 850)

Schlesinger details phone calls, meetings, and social events where party members discussed their unwillingness to vote for the Gore/ Lieberman ticket due to Joe's being the potential vice president. He names names, something that dispels the myth that it is the left wing of the party that refuses to vote for our nominees. Some say they will vote for Ralph Nader. Arthur, who describes George W. Bush as "a frightened ventriloquist's dummy," suggests that the republican ticket couldn't do much harm in four years in office.

Perhaps the most savage comment on how his friends viewed Lieberman came in a discussion with Philip Roth, who said, "I am considering issuing a statement: 'Mr. Roth is not available forinterviews. He has gone to the hospital to have his foreskin sewed back on'." (page 847)

All of this was from when Holy Joe was still a Democrat, if in name only. In my opinion, he played as significant a role in the election's outcome as the corrupt Supreme Court. I think the world would be very different if Al Gore had been president. I do not think that 9/11 would have happened, for example ...... not because I subscribed to the paranoid LIHOP nonsense that was common back when. Rather, he would have paid attention to all of the warning signs.

I do not rejoice at the death of any human being. That's not to say I wouldn't be pleased to learn of the death of, say, Putin. Or his top helpers, for I won't know until that happens. But it is to say that even in his biggest role as a Democrat, Joe Lieberman was terrible. And he became contaminated by the bitterness that saturated his being after the Democratic Party rejected him.

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Sanctimonious (Original Post) H2O Man Mar 28 OP
Contra TheProle Mar 28 #1
May he H2O Man Mar 28 #2
Death won't do him any dirtier than it will me or you... TheProle Mar 28 #5
I know that H2O Man Mar 28 #9
Oh honey . . . . . Saoirse9 Mar 28 #17
True. H2O Man Mar 28 #21
😆 dweller Mar 28 #3
Ha!!!!! H2O Man Mar 28 #7
And...Florida just banned it. n/t Xavier Breath Mar 28 #20
"Self-righteousness in retrospect is easy - also cheap." - Arthur Schlesinger BeyondGeography Mar 28 #4
Arthur was unique. H2O Man Mar 28 #10
I read his RFK book a few years ago BeyondGeography Mar 28 #13
Great book. H2O Man Mar 28 #14
Is it okay if I rejoice? Saoirse9 Mar 28 #6
I am trying H2O Man Mar 28 #11
They say . . . Saoirse9 Mar 28 #15
He stands as H2O Man Mar 28 #16
Of all the things that never existed Saoirse9 Mar 28 #18
Right. H2O Man Mar 28 #19
The truth malaise Mar 28 #8
That it is. H2O Man Mar 28 #12
"Bush was a frightened ventriloquist's dummy " Easterncedar Mar 29 #22

TheProle

(2,178 posts)
1. Contra
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 03:16 PM
Mar 28

“He was a truly gifted leader, whose affable personality and strong will made him a force to be reckoned with. That’s why it came as no surprise to any of us who knew him when he’d start singing his favorite song: Frank Sinatra’s ‘My Way.’ And doing things Joe’s way meant always putting his country and the values of equality and fairness first.” - Al Gore (D)


Joe Lieberman and I didn’t always see eye-to-eye, but he had an extraordinary career in public service, including four decades spent fighting for the people of Connecticut. He also worked hard to repeal “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” and helped us pass the Affordable Care Act. In both cases the politics were difficult, but he stuck to his principles because he knew it was the right thing to do. Michelle and I extend our deepest condolences to Hadassah and the Lieberman family. Barack Obama (D)


“In an era of political carbon copies, Joe Lieberman was a singularity. One of one. He fought and won for what he believed was right and for the state he adored." Sen Chris Murphy (D)


"“He was a fierce advocate, a man of deep conscience and conviction, and a courageous leader who sought to bridge gaps and bring people together. He leaves an enduring legacy as a fighter for consumers, environmental values, civil rights, and other great causes of our time.” - Richard Blumenthal (D)




H2O Man

(73,543 posts)
9. I know that
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 03:27 PM
Mar 28

some people supported his efforts to promote McCain in 2008. And his effort to sink President Biden's chances this year. One never knows where they might encounter such a person.

Saoirse9

(3,676 posts)
17. Oh honey . . . . .
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 04:18 PM
Mar 28

People nearly always speak well of the dead. Even Lieberman. Doesn't mean you have to believe it.

BeyondGeography

(39,374 posts)
4. "Self-righteousness in retrospect is easy - also cheap." - Arthur Schlesinger
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 03:22 PM
Mar 28

He also said America gets the President it deserves. I mostly agree, but not in the case of the 2000 election and Al Gore, whose loss always seemed to sit just fine with Joe Lieberman.

Arthur is greatly missed.

H2O Man

(73,543 posts)
10. Arthur was unique.
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 03:30 PM
Mar 28

I've collected every book of his that I've ever found. Loved his writings for many decades.

BeyondGeography

(39,374 posts)
13. I read his RFK book a few years ago
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 03:34 PM
Mar 28

Blew my mind. In a good way.

I’ll say this, he understood power in a way that seems to have been lost on our party. And however one feels about the Kennedys, they understood it too.

H2O Man

(73,543 posts)
14. Great book.
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 03:37 PM
Mar 28

His "A Thousand Days" (about JFK) is also a great read. Robert was my favorite politician, followed closely by his brother John. I have a high opinion pf Tedd, too.

Saoirse9

(3,676 posts)
6. Is it okay if I rejoice?
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 03:24 PM
Mar 28

Lieberman was in Irish parlance a shitehawk. Always selling shovels of shite.

Rest in hell you useless shitehawk.

That's all I have to say about that.

Saoirse9

(3,676 posts)
15. They say . . .
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 04:03 PM
Mar 28

he was as thick as manure and half as useful.

The sea wouldn't give him a wave, and the tide wouldn't take him out.

For me, all I can say is he was as sharp as marble.

I honestly haven't thought of him in more that 20 years.

And I won't think of him at all in the next 20.

H2O Man

(73,543 posts)
16. He stands as
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 04:14 PM
Mar 28

the greatest necroconservative voice advocating for the Bush-Cheney war in Iraq. Saved us from yellow cake and mushroom clouds and other threats that did not exist.

H2O Man

(73,543 posts)
19. Right.
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 05:52 PM
Mar 28

It is a shame that those who knowingly lied us into that war were never prosecuted. Thousands killed or wounded.

Easterncedar

(2,298 posts)
22. "Bush was a frightened ventriloquist's dummy "
Fri Mar 29, 2024, 08:14 AM
Mar 29

Perfect. And what a different timeline we would be in if he hadn’t become president. One of the weakest candidates ever fielded. And yet…

And yes, he and Cheney and the rest should have been prosecuted as war criminals.

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