I do not hold much respect for these so-called "Republicans" that criticize Trump...

[kentuck]

...but still remain part of that Party.

They just can't bring themselves to leave that sick organization or to ever vote for Joe Biden or a Democrat. They are still clinging to the hem of his garment. They cannot totally cut the cord to that sick cult.

They are still part of the problem. They are still helping to create the division in this country. Ronna McDaniel is only the latest example. She was going to pretend that she was divorced from Trump and the Republicans and was ready to work for the NBC network. But, too many saw thru her scam from the beginning.

Republicans are not helping America, and certainly are not helping the Democrats, in resolving this attack upon our democracy. They are only prolonging any solution by continuing to cling to that decadent and criminal organization called the GOP.

Very few are showing any courage.

[AllaN01Bear]

1. friend of mine just did the walk. went from red to blue a while back so there is hope .

[50 Shades Of Blue]

2. That's how I feel. The Republican Party is the Trump Party now. Love it or leave it.

But if they feel they must stay, their criticizing Trump is absolutely worthless unless they announce they're voting for Biden and urge other Trump-critical Republicans to do the same.

Looking at you, big-talking Liz Cheney and Chris Christie.

[JI7]

3. Disagree about Liz Cheney. She is better than most Democrats in the way she goes after

Trump .

[50 Shades Of Blue]

4. She's still a Republican before she's an American.

If she doesn’t support the one candidate who can save the democracy she claims to love from Trump, she’s nothing but hot air.

[bluesbassman]

5. I respect how Liz has gone after Trump. But how in your opinion is she doing it better than most Democrats?

Is it because she's a staunch Republican? She is you know, her Conservative views are pretty much the same as they've always been, just like the majority of times she voted along party lines while in the House. But regardless of her ideology, I'm just not sure she's challenging Trump any "better" than "most" Democrats.

[Mad_Machine76]

12. But her positions on issues is still awful

Useful to a limited degree but hasn't really changed her stripes per se.

[onecaliberal]

6. Michael Steele included.

[Chakaconcarne]

7. We don't have to... we just use them and appreciate whatever they can do to tear down the Red Menace.

[global1]

8. They're Showing No Courage And They Also.....

lack integrity!!!

I really don't know how they can live with themselves and still consider themselves as being patriotic Americans.

[karynnj]

9. For those like Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, there is a real dilemma

They were both, pre Trump, members in good standing in the Republican party. Trump took and perverted the party. From a party that had a platform, that I had big disagreements with, they became a party with no platform. It's value became basically slogans that Trump adopted. Consider just one - the border. What is their policy and what did they do in 2019 when they had the Presidency, the House and the Senate? In that year, it was build the wall and make Mexico pay for it. Very little was built and Mexico had no intention to pay for it and there was no logic in them being responsible to do that.

So, they are Republicans whose party has left them behind. So, what can they do? Philosophically they are not Democrats. The Democratic party's values cannot expand to incorporating the Republican party of old without losing our own core values. A big tent is a good idea, but there has to be some limits.

I think it is best for them to stay in the Republican party, while overtly rejecting Trump and the extremists he has brought in OR recognize that battle is lost and create a new party. America's system discourages parties other than the top two so this is a long shot. It is a tough choice for people like these 2 politicians and one they likely never saw coming even in 2016.

I think the Republican party's shift started way before Trump. The change occurred with Reagan, the Gingrich contract for America, the Freedom caucus etc. with support from the federalist society, the Heritage Foundation etc. Before Cheney and Kiplinger's, there were people like Jeffords (VT), Specter(PA) who left the Republican party saying it left them. The question may be how far to the extreme will it go before even non politicians and non political activists say that this is not their party?

In an increasingly polarized country, how hard is it actually reach the point of rejecting the party that might even be part of your identity. Note that you hear more disaffected Republicans saying they will not vote, vote for a third party or write in someone rather than say they will vote for a third party.

PS This movement to the extreme is not happening "on both sides". There are not a lot of Joe Liberman/Joe Manchin Democrats concerned that they have no party. The Democrats not voting Biden in the primary are disagreeing on the left, not in the center as is the Republican case.

[Carola]

10. I was once a republican

“I didn’t leave the party, the party left me.”

[ProfessorGAC]

11. Welcome To DU

You left. Are you voting for Biden?
If so, you have truly left & you're not what Kentuck is talking about.

[Carola]

14. yes, I will vote for Biden

Last edited Wed Mar 27, 2024, 02:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Although I don't agree with all he's done.
e.g, The Afghanistan withdrawal was poorly handled IMO.
It took him too long to address the border problem or even admit there was a problem.

[Caliman73]

13. I am curious...

Why were you a Republican? Why did you leave?

Were/are you Conservative? Was it mainly because your family was Republican?

I understand the concept of people thinking, "...the party left me" I do find it curious though. From those of us on the outside, looking in toward the Republican Party / Conservative movement, there isn't a lot of difference between say, Ronald Reagan, George W Bush, and Donald Trump. The differences are cosmetic.

Reagan gutted the social welfare system. He filled his administration with people who absolutely hated and wanted to destroy the departments they were chosen to helm. He turned the tax system on its head shifting the burden of paying for society from the wealthiest and most able to pay, to the rest of us. Reagan engaged in illegal activities like selling arms to Iran (a state sponsor of terrorism) and using the money to fund right wing death squads in Central America. He was folksy and seemingly bright and sunny, but his agenda was vicious.

Bush Jr. was dopey and seemingly incompetent, but someone people would like to have a beer with. He pushed and lied us into a war on an idea, or tactic that cost us Trillions of dollars, lost us 4000 soldiers and many more wounded and traumatized, and he put the surveillance state on steroids and blew a huge hole in the economy causing one of the worst recessions in modern US history.

Trump is crass and vulgar. He is a lifelong criminal. Thing is, he was registered as a Democrat for a good chunk of his life. He donated (I think) to both parties and famously or infamously, actually hung around with the Clintons. I think Chelsy and Ivanka were buddies or something. Trump however, never ran as a Democrat. Why is that? What do you think, allowed him to win the Republican nomination in 2016 and within just a few years turn a political party with 200 years of history, into his party?

I have my ideas, but I am super curious to hear what an insider has to say about this situation.

[Carola]

15. Former republican

Why were you a Republican?
Family when growing up, mainly.

Why did you leave?
I actually left in 1999. I left when republicans ignored Elizabeth Dole and it became a race between the uncurious GWB and the warpig McCain. I knew back then there was a big problem. They seemingly did a course correction when they nominated Mitt Romney, a good man IMO.

Were/are you Conservative?
I thought of myself as one. In some respects I still am but I'm also quit liberal in others. I'm a bit of a hybrid. I was a moderate republican which is going the way of the dodo bird. I kinda think there's still room in the democrat party for moderates. At least I hope so.

From those of us on the outside, looking in toward the Republican Party / Conservative movement, there isn't a lot of difference between say, Ronald Reagan, George W Bush, and Donald Trump. The differences are cosmetic.
I disagree. The MAGAs have no respect for Reagan from what I can tell on another forum I frequent. They are a radical cult. Plus that was toward the end of the Cold War. Different circumstances. Do you really believe Reagan would suck up to Putin the way Trump does? Like JFK he always said he'd support liberty and freedom anywhere in the world. I think he would support Ukraine as much as possible. GWB was too, shall we way, not curious enough to consider the consequences of his actions. I thought he meant well. Trump is just plain disgusting in every respect.

Reagan gutted the social welfare system. He filled his administration with people who absolutely hated and wanted to destroy the departments they were chosen to helm. He turned the tax system on its head shifting the burden of paying for society from the wealthiest and most able to pay, to the rest of us. Reagan engaged in illegal activities like selling arms to Iran (a state sponsor of terrorism) and using the money to fund right wing death squads in Central America. He was folksy and seemingly bright and sunny, but his agenda was vicious.
You are correct. He was very likeable. But he was not my favorite republican in retrospect. My two favorites were Ford and Daddy Bush, both moderates.

Bush Jr. was dopey and seemingly incompetent, but someone people would like to have a beer with. He pushed and lied us into a war on an idea, or tactic that cost us Trillions of dollars, lost us 4000 soldiers and many more wounded and traumatized, and he put the surveillance state on steroids and blew a huge hole in the economy causing one of the worst recessions in modern US history.
Yes.

What do you think, allowed him to win the Republican nomination in 2016 and within just a few years turn a political party with 200 years of history, into his party?
He tapped into the seamy undercurrent of republicans that apparently was festering for a long time, IMO.

[Caliman73]

16. Thank you. I really appreciate your candor.

I think that we all have some parts of us that are considered conservative, and some that are liberal. If you grow up in the US, then you have those messages hitting you all the time.

I try to focus on "Conservative" as in the political ideology established by Edmund Burke and Joseph De Maistre rather than on the traits, like, I tend to be a little bit more conservative with regards to fashion. I do not like to take risks and wear flashy clothes.

I hope you feel welcome here at DU. We can be a very touchy and cantankerous bunch.

[Carola]

17. I'm trying

We can be a very touchy and cantankerous bunch.
lol, tell me about it.
This will probably get me banned but I've been banned here at least two times for my honesty.
Once after just one post.
I'm getting fed up with justplainpolitcs and hope I can find a home here to have mature discussion.
More and more I find myself trolling there for a reaction only because that's mostly what goes on there. It's pretty much a free for all.
I can hardly wait to have my ten posts so I can start a thread I've been thinking about.

[Caliman73]

18. Politics is not softball. People put a lot of themselves into a situation

sometimes without thinking about the larger narratives. Liberals, Progressives, and Leftists can be as tribal as Conservatives and other right wing people.

I try to approach things from a perspective of what would do the most good for the greatest amount of people. I believe that if people had all of their material needs met, and the space to pursue self enrichment, there would be fewer problems in the world. Certainly there would still be problems, just not as intense. When people are hungry, isolated, and feel trapped in whatever situation they are in, it tends to bring about a desperation that can manifest in violence.

I am a Democrat because it is currently the most viable political vehicle in the United States that enacts policies that I think, have a chance of achieving those ends. We are not perfect by any means, but I think most people within the Democratic spectrum of beliefs, believe that all people have inherent worth and dignity, and should have the opportunity to develop into their best selves. Because the current situation we find ourselves in is that some people are hoarding wealth and resources, the government is the only entity with enough power to redistribute some of those resources so that people simply have "enough".

Conservatives (and when I say Conservatives I am typically talking about those with the power to make decisions for the movement, not the average follower) think that it should be at the discretion of those with money and power to decide who gets charity. They seem to think that people are in bad situations because they put themselves there, even when all research shows that the greatest predictor of future wealth is the level of wealth of your parents and their parents. Intergenerational wealth or poverty should not determine a person's future. That is why you get people like George W Bush and Donald Trump in positions of leadership. We celebrate successes like President Obama, who grew up with a single mom and his grandparents, who was able to persevere and climb to the top without great wealth, but there is a trope (Horatio Alger) that is mythologized to entice people to think, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and anyone can make it with hard work.

I do not believe that the goal of people should be, or is to become wealthy. I think most people just want to live and do what motivates them, to be "good at something" and be happy. I think we are sold on the ideas of material wealth because that makes us want to buy things and that makes certain people very rich. We need to move to a different motivation as a society and as a species. We need to do better.