Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

David__77

(23,402 posts)
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 09:51 AM Mar 27

Majority of Americans now oppose Israeli action in Gaza: Gallup poll

A majority of Americans disapprove of Israel's military actions in Gaza, in a stark shift since last fall, according to a Gallup poll released Wednesday.



Among Republicans, the percentage who approve of Israel's actions has dropped from 71% in November to 64% in March, the poll found.

The dip is even sharper among among Democrats. Fewer than one in five (18%) say they approve of Israel's actions. That's down from 36% in November.

Among people who identify as independents, the approval rating has dropped from 47% to 29% in the span.



https://www.axios.com/2024/03/27/majority-americans-disapprove-israel-gaza-poll

122 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Majority of Americans now oppose Israeli action in Gaza: Gallup poll (Original Post) David__77 Mar 27 OP
I won't forget that Israel was attacked Marthe48 Mar 27 #1
"Retaliated enough" Sky Jewels Mar 27 #5
Precisely DENVERPOPS Mar 27 #23
Don't hold your breath that Bibi and his cronies will ever face any totodeinhere Mar 30 #117
You seem confused how War works EX500rider Mar 27 #9
It's called genocide Nutty Putty Mar 27 #16
Feel free to list the magical Wars where civilians didn't get killed EX500rider Mar 27 #18
Feel free to pretend that war crimes don't matter Stargleamer Mar 27 #33
You do realize after 68 dead civilians at Pearl Harbor we proceeded to kill almost 3 million Japanese... EX500rider Mar 27 #35
Had nothing to do with Eko Mar 27 #54
We lost around 65,000 troops in the Pacific theater NickB79 Mar 27 #61
Comparing a world war Eko Mar 27 #62
The world isn't that different NickB79 Mar 27 #65
Sure, Eko Mar 27 #69
The point being that the Japanese struck at mostly military targets EX500rider Mar 27 #71
Huh, Eko Mar 27 #72
That was in the Japanese Chinese War EX500rider Mar 27 #73
That was a large part of WW2. Eko Mar 27 #74
Wow -- come on, man, that si not true obamanut2012 Mar 27 #87
The reason the US got into the war was Pearl Harbor, full stop EX500rider Mar 27 #92
After 75 years of conflict. . . Stargleamer Mar 27 #90
They don't have to kill all Gazan's EX500rider Mar 27 #91
The more Palestinian civilians see their families getting killed Stargleamer Mar 30 #113
So I guess that all the Gaza civilians at the food trucks who were gunned down DemocraticPatriot Mar 30 #116
Why did someone claim they were armed? EX500rider Mar 30 #119
By your logic, they must have been armed--- or the IDF wouldn't have killed them--- right? DemocraticPatriot Mar 30 #120
Urban warfare against un-uniformed opponents often results in civilian casualties EX500rider Mar 30 #121
Oddly enough, most of those 68 dead civilians at Pearl Harbor were DemocraticPatriot Mar 30 #114
I wasn't excusing anything EX500rider Mar 30 #122
That's not how wars work. Ace Rothstein Mar 27 #40
The US stopped in Vietnam. . . Stargleamer Mar 28 #106
That's a very strange and inaccurate comparison. Ace Rothstein Mar 28 #109
Hamas is committing war crimes Mossfern Mar 27 #64
Wars tend to lead to war crimes Stargleamer Mar 28 #108
War crimes committed by one side do not excuse war crimes committed DemocraticPatriot Mar 30 #115
Israel is not engaging in war crimes. TexasDem69 Mar 27 #102
On the other hand. . . Stargleamer Mar 28 #105
Again, war, not war crimes TexasDem69 Mar 28 #111
Then Amnesty International, Oxfam, Human Rights Watch. . . Stargleamer Mar 29 #112
I am not defending genocide by any means. But... totodeinhere Mar 30 #118
Milosevic liked to say the same thing peppertree Mar 27 #21
it was not 1700 on Oct 7 Celerity Mar 27 #42
Yes, somehow the number killed on Oct. 7 keeps rising according to pro-Netanyahu poster.. brush Mar 27 #52
Are there pro Netanyahu posters here? Mossfern Mar 27 #53
No one is denying Israel's right to defend itself. But come on, over-retaliation is over-retaliation. brush Mar 27 #57
It's not retaliation... Mossfern Mar 27 #60
IMO it's over retaliation when 30,000 Palestinians are killed vs 1200 Israelis. brush Mar 27 #66
There is no such thing as a quota on retaliation - and this is NOT retaliation Mossfern Mar 27 #68
Stop ignoring that Netanyahu is a warmonger who wants the war to continue as long as possible... brush Mar 27 #77
This may be a surprise to you... Mossfern Mar 27 #89
This is where I am in all of it too - agree with your 3 points. nt TBF Mar 27 #98
We are in agreement. My hope is that all you wish for Israel comes true. brush Mar 27 #101
You're right Avalon Sparks Mar 27 #94
Sorry for misstating the number of victims on Oct 7 Marthe48 Mar 27 #93
Bernie is right on womanofthehills Mar 27 #50
1200 to 1700 now. How did that increase happen? That's still a ratio of 18 Palestinians killed to 1 Israeli. brush Mar 27 #55
Forget bitter history enid602 Mar 27 #84
"Retaliated enough?" Aren't there still hostages -- hopefully alive -- there? W_HAMILTON Mar 27 #85
At the beginning of the war, Israel stated they'd fight until jimfields33 Mar 27 #2
The many thousands of babies killed were not combatants or Hamas members. David__77 Mar 27 #3
THIS malaise Mar 27 #4
Exactly!! BuddhaGirl Mar 27 #6
And those babies and their families get to be governed by Hamas if Hamas isn't removed from power NickB79 Mar 27 #7
This slaughter is creating more terrorists than it is killing. TheRickles Mar 27 #8
Seems like Hamas had no problem recruiting sufficient terrorists before Oct 7 NickB79 Mar 27 #14
All the more reason not to create any more n/t Stargleamer Mar 27 #30
When we see the videos of the Israeli military womanofthehills Mar 27 #22
Yes DENVERPOPS Mar 27 #25
UNRWA school textbooks have been doing it for decades NickB79 Mar 27 #59
Better dead Mad_Machine76 Mar 27 #26
Where did your read the number of babies killed? EX500rider Mar 27 #37
The job will be done when Israel gets their land Chakaconcarne Mar 27 #45
The whole thing is looking more and more like ethnic cleansing every day. patphil Mar 27 #10
To me Israel's actions have very little to do with revenge, and Sky Jewels Mar 27 #75
It actually IS, by literal definition, ethnic cleansing obamanut2012 Mar 27 #88
Humanitarian aid is needed, not military. There is no "getting even" despite this being what some people want. twodogsbarking Mar 27 #11
If only there were no Israel, the world would be a better place. AZLD4Candidate Mar 27 #12
That attitude towards Israel is absolutely horrible. Sky Jewels Mar 27 #82
Gallup is good polling now? It seems to change based on the issue. LexVegas Mar 27 #13
It would be worth bookmarking this thread sarisataka Mar 27 #15
Interesting- in my small town womanofthehills Mar 27 #24
They didn't Gallup me, or anyone I know. murielm99 Mar 27 #17
Same here, people I know don't PatSeg Mar 27 #28
Ditto elleng Mar 27 #51
It's past time for a cease fire leading to a two state solution. Ping Tung Mar 27 #19
How do "we" convince the warring parties sarisataka Mar 27 #20
Stop arming them would be a nice start. Ping Tung Mar 27 #36
We are only arming Israel. The conflict is two sided. sarisataka Mar 27 #38
Other than mutual genocide what other workable solution is there? Ping Tung Mar 27 #39
There is no workable solution sarisataka Mar 27 #44
Self-deleted - duplicate Beastly Boy Mar 27 #46
The UN is an agent of Hamas Mossfern Mar 27 #67
I love conspiracy theories. Ping Tung Mar 27 #70
Except Mossfern Mar 27 #43
Peace could be a reality by voting out Netanyahu. Emile Mar 27 #27
You don't really think the Palestinians will suddenly be peaceful if Netanyahu isn't in power, do you? Ace Rothstein Mar 27 #41
It couldn't hurt. Emile Mar 27 #49
Hmmm Avalon Sparks Mar 27 #96
I would laugh sarisataka Mar 27 #97
There are videos Avalon Sparks Mar 27 #99
You wouldn't happen to be able to provide a link to these videos sarisataka Mar 27 #100
Not really, no. Ace Rothstein Mar 28 #104
And when Hamas attacks again? NickB79 Mar 27 #63
Right, because the Israelis are certainly going to PCIntern Mar 27 #29
I'm not clear as to why Israel cannot defend herself - the US certainly did when attacked on 9/11 TBF Mar 27 #31
Look at the star on the Israeli flag and realize those people (me being one of them) AZLD4Candidate Mar 27 #32
You do realize that the government of Israel is NOT at all the same as all Jewish people all over the world? Sky Jewels Mar 27 #78
You do realize i am Jewish? AZLD4Candidate Mar 27 #79
And .... what? Sky Jewels Mar 27 #80
You're looking for a fight by your aggressiveness and I refuse to go down a rabbit hole with you AZLD4Candidate Mar 27 #81
Riiiight, because anyone who objects to Israel/Netanyahu's decimation of Gaza just looooves Hamas. Sky Jewels Mar 27 #83
The U.S. did NOT defend itself when attacked on 9-11! Sky Jewels Mar 27 #76
The substance of your content is true, but that's really not how it was sold to the public. TBF Mar 27 #95
Love to see some other poll questions maxsolomon Mar 27 #34
I'd like to see the breakdown between... Takket Mar 27 #47
DURec leftstreet Mar 27 #48
Looks like the anti-Israel messaging in the MSM has paid off for Hamas. Bonx Mar 27 #56
Perhaps people don't like ethnic cleansing. David__77 Mar 27 #103
It's good that's not happening. Bonx Mar 28 #110
For starters, no god promised anyone anything. I'd like to knock some heads together and get them brewens Mar 27 #58
Good -- took long enough for some obamanut2012 Mar 27 #86
I was on their side at first but they've pushed it way too far budkin Mar 28 #107

Marthe48

(16,959 posts)
1. I won't forget that Israel was attacked
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 10:05 AM
Mar 27

and 1700 people murdered by terrorists. But I think Israel has retaliated long enough. I had the thought the other day that Israel has turned the phrase 'from the river to the sea' around. Either way, it's a terrible way to figure out a way to live together in the same bit of land.

I have friends on both sides and for that reason, I don't say too much, but I do keep in mind that hamas attacked unarmed civilians and ran amok. Both sides resorting to mass killing of civilians isn't going to make people anywhere forget the bitter history between Gaza and Israel. I don't know what will.

Sky Jewels

(7,096 posts)
5. "Retaliated enough"
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 10:42 AM
Mar 27

Umm, yeah. They retaliated enough long before they slaughtered and maimed and displaced and starved out tens of thousands of innocents, including countless babies, toddlers, children, and teens, and turned themselves into the world pariah. There is no coming back from these atrocities for Israel.

DENVERPOPS

(8,820 posts)
23. Precisely
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 12:43 PM
Mar 27

what happens when you have a corrupt Right Wing leader............Take Netanyahu's actions as a harbinger of things to come under Trump, (or much worse), if he is "installed",........yet again.......

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
117. Don't hold your breath that Bibi and his cronies will ever face any
Sat Mar 30, 2024, 06:07 PM
Mar 30

legal consequences. Their government might not last much longer but that's about it.

EX500rider

(10,848 posts)
9. You seem confused how War works
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 11:08 AM
Mar 27

Israel's not retaliating but attacking until Hamas is gone or surrenders, that is called War

Stargleamer

(1,989 posts)
33. Feel free to pretend that war crimes don't matter
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 01:15 PM
Mar 27

Or that Israel isn’t engaging in war crimes that far exceed in magnitude what was done to Israelis

EX500rider

(10,848 posts)
35. You do realize after 68 dead civilians at Pearl Harbor we proceeded to kill almost 3 million Japanese...
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 02:21 PM
Mar 27

....until they surrendered, then we stopped.

Israel is in the same mood, surrender or die, your choice.

Eko

(7,299 posts)
54. Had nothing to do with
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:06 PM
Mar 27

The soldiers that were killed, the ships sunk and damaged, the planes destroyed and airbases damaged, attacking one of our largest bases and Japan attacking our allies and multiple countries in Asia killing hundreds of thousands. Yeah, it was the civilians killed at Pearl Harbor that did it.

NickB79

(19,243 posts)
61. We lost around 65,000 troops in the Pacific theater
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:14 PM
Mar 27

Vs 3 million Japanese killed, and entire cities obliterated.

Based on the "proportionality" hypothesis that keeps getting kicked around lately, that's still a worse response than the current war in Gaza.

Eko

(7,299 posts)
62. Comparing a world war
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:19 PM
Mar 27

That happened 84 years ago and the terrible event that Hamas did recently is not a good comparison at all. The scope is different, the technology is different and the world is different.

NickB79

(19,243 posts)
65. The world isn't that different
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:26 PM
Mar 27

Man's desire to kill others based on racism and religion remain.

And that's what matters most. New technology just makes it easier and more devastating.

Eko

(7,299 posts)
69. Sure,
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:33 PM
Mar 27

A world war 80 some years ago where we did not have munitions that had pinpoint accuracy not to mention night vision, advanced optics, satellites, drones and a war that encompassed most of the world is the same as this small engagement and can be compared. Heck, we used nukes then, so by that logic nukes can be used again in this engagement since they are the same.

EX500rider

(10,848 posts)
71. The point being that the Japanese struck at mostly military targets
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:36 PM
Mar 27

While Hamas did just the opposite.
Israel has really no choice but to eliminate them to prevent future occurrences regardless of world opinion, their first duty is to the safety and security of their citizens

EX500rider

(10,848 posts)
73. That was in the Japanese Chinese War
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:42 PM
Mar 27

Certainly not why the US declared war on Japan but it is one of the reasons for our economic embargoes as it should have been.

My point was more that if the Japanese had killed as many American civilians proportionately to how many Israelis died I hate to think what our response would have been.

Eko

(7,299 posts)
74. That was a large part of WW2.
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:46 PM
Mar 27

We actually had Chinese regiments fighting with us against the Japanese.

obamanut2012

(26,076 posts)
87. Wow -- come on, man, that si not true
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 06:16 PM
Mar 27

That expansion into Manchuria, teh Rape, etc., were all part of WWII. It is all part and parcel. You are being disingenious.

EX500rider

(10,848 posts)
92. The reason the US got into the war was Pearl Harbor, full stop
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 06:45 PM
Mar 27

The Japanese invasion of Manchuria was in 1931, the Rape of Nanking was in 1937, 4 years before Pearl.

I never said those weren't part of WWII, they were the start of WWII.

Stargleamer

(1,989 posts)
90. After 75 years of conflict. . .
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 06:25 PM
Mar 27

I think you can realize that surrender isn’t likely. As for dying, the IDF has to kill every last Palestinian to bring that about and given that their horrendous actions against Palestinian civilians, that’s creating more terrorists there, that ain’t likely to happen either.

I happen to think that the Allies did commit war crimes in WW2, so I’m not fazed by your argument re the massacres of Japanese civilians.

The Viet Cong committed atrocities, but that doesn’t justify what took place at My Lai. Yes, my friend, Americans can commit war crimes. Similarly, the atrocities Hamas committed on Oct 7, doesn’t justify the targeting of civilians in response.

EX500rider

(10,848 posts)
91. They don't have to kill all Gazan's
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 06:39 PM
Mar 27

Just the one who pick up weapons.
The more dead Hamas the more the rest will get the idea that it is unhealthy to fight the better equipped & lead IDF

Stargleamer

(1,989 posts)
113. The more Palestinian civilians see their families getting killed
Sat Mar 30, 2024, 04:54 PM
Mar 30

the more likely the will be to pick up weapons and join Hamas. And after 75 years of conflict there, it does not seem that more Hamas deaths ever lead to people coming to the conclusion that it is unhealthy to fight the better equipped IDF, which has been better equipped for decades now.

DemocraticPatriot

(4,369 posts)
116. So I guess that all the Gaza civilians at the food trucks who were gunned down
Sat Mar 30, 2024, 06:04 PM
Mar 30

by the IDF were actually armed?

Even the IDF is not making that claim...

DemocraticPatriot

(4,369 posts)
120. By your logic, they must have been armed--- or the IDF wouldn't have killed them--- right?
Sat Mar 30, 2024, 06:33 PM
Mar 30

Except they were NOT armed....

You posted

" They don't have to kill all Gazan's
Just the one who pick up weapons"

Hell, even being unarmed and waving a white flag of surrender won't stop the IDF from killing you in Gaza...
Several instances of this have been documented, including the case of the Israeli hostages whom the IDF gunned down...





EX500rider

(10,848 posts)
121. Urban warfare against un-uniformed opponents often results in civilian casualties
Sat Mar 30, 2024, 06:43 PM
Mar 30

As recent wars show
432,093 civilians have died violent deaths as a direct result of the U.S. post-9/11 wars. An estimated 3.6-3.8 million people have died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones, bringing the total death toll to at least 4.5-4.7 million and counting.

DemocraticPatriot

(4,369 posts)
114. Oddly enough, most of those 68 dead civilians at Pearl Harbor were
Sat Mar 30, 2024, 05:52 PM
Mar 30

very likely the victims of American anti-aircraft fire, rather than victims of the Japanese-- but nobody wanted to talk about that for a long time.

All those shells that went up and didn't hit aircraft, had to come down somewhere... Later investigations determined that at least 40 civilian casualties were caused by American anti-aircraft fire from the ships.


As far as the mass deaths of Japanese (or German, for that matter) civilians in World War II goes, I hope we have moved beyond thinking that it was justified, excusable or not in fact a "war crime". Hell, even General Curtis LeMay who led Army Air Forces which engaged in firebombing in Japan, recognized that he would probably be charged with war crimes for these attacks, if the Allies didn't win the war...

I don't excuse or justify what we did to civilians in Japan and Germany in World War 2, and I certainly don't care to see those numbers used to attempt to excuse what Israel is doing today in Gaza.



EX500rider

(10,848 posts)
122. I wasn't excusing anything
Sat Mar 30, 2024, 06:47 PM
Mar 30

Merely pointing out the IDF wasn't going to stop after they had killed a equal number of Gazan's, their aim is the surrender or eradication of hamas, they will stop when that is done, just like we stopped bombing Japan after they surrendered, because that is the goal, not "genocide" like many here think

Stargleamer

(1,989 posts)
106. The US stopped in Vietnam. . .
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 01:59 PM
Mar 28

Once it was realized that the death and destruction there wasn’t getting us anywhere.

Mossfern

(2,502 posts)
64. Hamas is committing war crimes
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:24 PM
Mar 27

It is a war crime for combatants to use hospitals, schools and places of worship as a base of attack.
What are the war crimes that Israel committed in this conflict? Since when is a country that is attacked responsible to provide food and supplies to its enemy?

I'm more than willing to read any citations that you provide.

* I seem to have lost my way....I wasn't replying to the post above this?

Stargleamer

(1,989 posts)
108. Wars tend to lead to war crimes
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 02:27 PM
Mar 28

Well look at these links then:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/03/19/israeli-forces-conduct-gaza#:~:text=Oxfam%20and%20Human%20Rights%20Watch%20have%20observed%20or%20documented%20that,the%20civilian%20population%2C%20deprived%20the

And read this:
"Analyses by CNN, The New York Times, and Sky News all found that Israel had bombed areas it had previously told civilians to evacuate to. . . . NYT found that Israel had dropped 2,000 lbs. bombs in those areas while CNN stated it had verified at least 3 locations Israel bombed after telling civilians it was safe to go there." i.e. civilians were targeted. - Wikipedia.

If you disagree that telling civilians where to go to for safety and then bombing those places constitutes a war crime(s), then we’ll just have to disagree then.

DemocraticPatriot

(4,369 posts)
115. War crimes committed by one side do not excuse war crimes committed
Sat Mar 30, 2024, 06:02 PM
Mar 30

by the other side, period.

Hamas fighters are terrorists-- but I expect better from Israel.
I didn't expect them to act like terrorists.

TexasDem69

(1,777 posts)
102. Israel is not engaging in war crimes.
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 10:03 PM
Mar 27

Israel is engaging in war. Hamas can surrender and stop the bloodshed but it won’t because its goal is to kill every Jew in Israel.

Stargleamer

(1,989 posts)
105. On the other hand. . .
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 01:49 PM
Mar 28

“Our research points to damning evidence of war crimes in Israel’s bombing campaign that must be urgently investigated. Decades of impunity and injustice and the unprecedented level of death and destruction of the current offensive will only result in further violence and instability in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories,” said Agnès Callamard. - Amnesty International

Damning evidence of war crimes as Israeli attacks wipe out entire families in Gaza - Amnesty International

"The vast majority of Gaza’s population has also been forced to flee their homes, many as a result of Israeli actions that amount to war crimes." - Human Rights Watch
Israeli Forces’ Conduct in Gaza | Human Rights Watch (hrw.org)

You can disagree me and Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Oxfam, and others about what constitutes war crimes, but just know that many of us don't automatically think that atrocities committed by Hamas allow Israel to flagrantly disregard international law in their response.

The US was involved in a War in Vietnam. That doesn't mean that it didn't commit war crimes in that war. Saying that Israel is involved in a war doesn't preclude it from committing war crimes as you seem to indicate. As I wrote to someone else here, the Viet Cong committed atrocities, but what happened at My Lai was still a war crime, when innocent civilians were targeted.

"Analyses by CNN, The New York Times, and Sky News all found that Israel had bombed areas it had previously told civilians to evacuate to. . . . NYT found that Israel had dropped 2,000 lbs. bombs in those areas while CNN stated it had verified at least 3 locations Israel bombed after telling civilians it was safe to go there." i.e. civilians were targeted. - Wikipedia

TexasDem69

(1,777 posts)
111. Again, war, not war crimes
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 11:43 PM
Mar 28

And not genocide. The Holocaust, Armenia and Rwanda were genocide. No rational person seriously thinks Israel is committing war crimes. “Forced to flee their homes”—that sounds like shit that happens in war, especially when Hamas terrorists are embedded in homes, hospitals and schools in the neighborhood

Stargleamer

(1,989 posts)
112. Then Amnesty International, Oxfam, Human Rights Watch. . .
Fri Mar 29, 2024, 12:37 PM
Mar 29

are full of irrational people. And telling fleeing civilians that they can evacuate safely to certain locations and then bombing those locations doesn’t amount to war crime(s). WTF??? (See my last paragraph in my prior response to you). These civilians were targeted.

Was My Lai a war crime? It targeted innocent civilians too just like the actions mentioned in the above paragraph did.

I’m afraid I’m just going to have to disagree with you there, and on top of that consider that all those who consider the above actions to be war crimes to be fully rational people.

Btw, I never accused Israel of genocide.

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
118. I am not defending genocide by any means. But...
Sat Mar 30, 2024, 06:12 PM
Mar 30

genocide has been a long standing tactic of war. It was practiced by both sides in WWII and our country has participated in it several times such as during the Spanish-American war.

Mossfern

(2,502 posts)
53. Are there pro Netanyahu posters here?
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:05 PM
Mar 27

I haven't seen any.

Please don't conflate support of the existence of the State of Israel with the ability to defend itself against future attacks from those who have already broken cease fires with support of Netanyahu or Likud.

brush

(53,778 posts)
57. No one is denying Israel's right to defend itself. But come on, over-retaliation is over-retaliation.
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:09 PM
Mar 27

Mossfern

(2,502 posts)
60. It's not retaliation...
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:14 PM
Mar 27

It's the intent to destroy or cripple Hamas so there will never be an attack like 10/7 again.
It's a war that Hamas started and Israel is seeking to end. All that needs to happen is for Hamas to surrender and return the hostages. As long as their charter includes the eradication of Israel and the death of all Jews there will be no peace if Hamas is in charge.

brush

(53,778 posts)
66. IMO it's over retaliation when 30,000 Palestinians are killed vs 1200 Israelis.
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:29 PM
Mar 27

That's a ratio of around 20 Palestinians killed vs 1 Israeli.

You might not see it as over retaliation but the polls show that the US public and the world thinks so.

When is the killing for Netanyahu enough?

And when is Israel going to kick his corrupt ass to the curb and put him in jail?

Mossfern

(2,502 posts)
68. There is no such thing as a quota on retaliation - and this is NOT retaliation
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:32 PM
Mar 27

As soon as this war is over Israel will kick Bibi out. There were protests and charges against him before 10/7. The Hamas attack actually helped Netanyahu stay in power.

brush

(53,778 posts)
77. Stop ignoring that Netanyahu is a warmonger who wants the war to continue as long as possible...
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:54 PM
Mar 27

to stay out of jail. Israel needs to work with the US and UN towards a ceasefire and two-state solution.

And put Netanyahu's corrupt ass in jail.

He hasn't done his job to protect Israel. He and Likud were warned a big attack was coming and they did nothing to re-enforce the border.

And there's still no explanation for the multiple-hours delay of the IDF fighting off the Octl. 7 attackers. Don't you wonder about that? They were warned months before Oct. 7.

Where were they?

Mossfern

(2,502 posts)
89. This may be a surprise to you...
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 06:24 PM
Mar 27

I agree.

That doesn't mean that Israel isn't fighting a war for survival
It was the Right wing that killed Rabin, but until this war is won by Israel, and Hamas is defeated, Israeli politics will take a second seat.

1. Win the war
2. Kick out Netanyahu and diminish Likud's influence.
3. Implement a two state solution with safeguards to both Israelis and Palestinians.

Remember: It is Hamas that wants to kill all Jews - in their charter. There is no institutional hate for Muslims or Arabs in Israel. Those educated in UNRWA schools need to be re-educated as well as the right wing Ultra Orthodox indoctrination of their children. It will take generations.

I'm an American, even though I may be Jewish, I have very little influence over Israeli politics.

Avalon Sparks

(2,565 posts)
94. You're right
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 07:38 PM
Mar 27

It’s not retaliation, it’s a land grab by genocide. Israel has already mapped out Gaza, even named the streets.

Marthe48

(16,959 posts)
93. Sorry for misstating the number of victims on Oct 7
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 06:56 PM
Mar 27

I had read that 1700 people died, had not seen a revised number.

womanofthehills

(8,709 posts)
50. Bernie is right on
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 03:50 PM
Mar 27
https://x.com/sensanders/status/1773001669275517304?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ

“The American people do not want to see hundreds of thousands of people starve.

The American people do not want to see small children bombed to death while they sleep.

The American people do not want to continue funding Netanyahu’s cruel war.”

brush

(53,778 posts)
55. 1200 to 1700 now. How did that increase happen? That's still a ratio of 18 Palestinians killed to 1 Israeli.
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:07 PM
Mar 27

Is that enough now to satisfy warmonger Netanyahu?

When will the killing stop?

enid602

(8,620 posts)
84. Forget bitter history
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 05:54 PM
Mar 27

“ . . isn't going to make people anywhere forget the bitter history between Gaza and Israel. I don't know what will.“

Look to FDR, JFK, RFK, LBJ, MLK, BHO. Malcolm X. Look to the examples of the MILLIONS of US Jews who fought for Civil Rights in America. Tune out the likes of Netanyahu, Smotrich and Gvir.

W_HAMILTON

(7,867 posts)
85. "Retaliated enough?" Aren't there still hostages -- hopefully alive -- there?
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 05:59 PM
Mar 27

When you are attacked the way they were and you still have hostages being held and tortured by the terrorists that started this to begin with, what do you do? Nothing? "Retaliate enough?" I don't know what the answer is, and I don't like Netanyahu one bit, but I would imagine most countries would be still fighting right now if such an attack were launched on their country and there were still hostages being held.

jimfields33

(15,802 posts)
2. At the beginning of the war, Israel stated they'd fight until
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 10:13 AM
Mar 27

Every Hamas person is captured or dead. I don’t believe the job is done. The best Hamas can do is turn themselves in and let this be over.

NickB79

(19,243 posts)
7. And those babies and their families get to be governed by Hamas if Hamas isn't removed from power
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 10:52 AM
Mar 27

And indoctrinated as they grow up, in Hamas-run schools, to take up arms at age 16 in their never-ending war to exterminate the Jews.

Hell of a future, eh?

NickB79

(19,243 posts)
14. Seems like Hamas had no problem recruiting sufficient terrorists before Oct 7
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 11:20 AM
Mar 27

*Jews merely exist in Israel

*Terrorists created

womanofthehills

(8,709 posts)
22. When we see the videos of the Israeli military
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 12:40 PM
Mar 27

Treating the kids of the West Bank so badly - no kid needs indoctrination from school -the kids live in terror. The military grabbed a 3 yr old for throwing stones & we watched his brothers & sisters & mom fighting the soldier to get the toddler back. A video yesterday, shows a boy about 8 with his mom in a store - military walks in slaps boy in the face - pulls kids shirt off, rips up his shirt in pieces ,mother gets in front of kid, military grabs stuff from store - doesn’t pay & walks out. Multiply these videos by hundreds online .

Video yesterday of an Israeli .class attacking a student dressed as a Palestinian. Goes both ways.

DENVERPOPS

(8,820 posts)
25. Yes
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 12:51 PM
Mar 27

the treatment and killing by Netanyahu of the Children is horrific. Of course, on a slightly lesser scale, what happened under Trump at the Mexican Border when Trump forcibly separated the parents from the children, held the children in pens, and then disappeared them all to who knows where, with no paperwork to help trace them......That is tragic behavior by the U.S. Gov't under a quasi tyrant........

Trump, Republicans, and Putin ETC all love Netanyahu.........

NickB79

(19,243 posts)
59. UNRWA school textbooks have been doing it for decades
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:09 PM
Mar 27
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218814769

Hamas stated goal in their charter is the extermination of the Jewish people. Full stop. They don't want peaceful coexistence, and never have.

EX500rider

(10,848 posts)
37. Where did your read the number of babies killed?
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 02:36 PM
Mar 27

All I have seen is "children" which to Hamas also means 16 to 18 yo Hamas members killed while firing rockets at Israeli cities and firing RPG's & AK-47's at the IDF

patphil

(6,176 posts)
10. The whole thing is looking more and more like ethnic cleansing every day.
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 11:09 AM
Mar 27

Retaliation has long since moved over into the revenge column.

Sky Jewels

(7,096 posts)
75. To me Israel's actions have very little to do with revenge, and
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:48 PM
Mar 27

everything to do with Netanyahu using 10/7 as an excuse for a total land grab of Gaza. He wants all the non-Israeli human beings cleared out through any means necessary.

twodogsbarking

(9,749 posts)
11. Humanitarian aid is needed, not military. There is no "getting even" despite this being what some people want.
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 11:10 AM
Mar 27

AZLD4Candidate

(5,689 posts)
12. If only there were no Israel, the world would be a better place.
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 11:14 AM
Mar 27

We need some kind of solution to this problem. Something lasting. Something final.

If they die, who cares? Israel is evil.

At least that's what I'm told by lots of people to my face (and I am evil even though I am not Israeli but wear my Star of David and have my Hammsa tattoo in a very visible location.

Remember, before Israel (and the majority of the people there) arrived, we didn't have an enemy in the Middle East. Now, because of Israel and those people, we have no friends.

Do I need the sarcasm thing?

Sky Jewels

(7,096 posts)
82. That attitude towards Israel is absolutely horrible.
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 05:06 PM
Mar 27

It's also horrible that what you describe is basically Netanyahu's attitude towards Gaza.

If we consider the decimation of one group of people to be very wrong, we should also consider the decimation of another group of people to be wrong. Gazans are just as human as Israelis, and vice versa.

sarisataka

(18,655 posts)
15. It would be worth bookmarking this thread
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 11:31 AM
Mar 27

as reference for the next time Gallup put out an unpopular poll result...

womanofthehills

(8,709 posts)
24. Interesting- in my small town
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 12:47 PM
Mar 27

Almost everyone knows everyone . My Dem friends are horrified with what’s happening in Gaza but my Republican friends are pro Israel.

PatSeg

(47,430 posts)
28. Same here, people I know don't
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 12:59 PM
Mar 27

answer the phone when they don't know the caller and most of them don't have landline phones anyway. I can't imagine how on earth they can get an accurate sampling these days.

sarisataka

(18,655 posts)
38. We are only arming Israel. The conflict is two sided.
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 02:40 PM
Mar 27

How do we, or the UN, convince them to accept a two-state solution?

sarisataka

(18,655 posts)
44. There is no workable solution
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 03:00 PM
Mar 27

As long as Likud and Hamas rule their respective areas.

The Likud party can be voted out of office, replaced by those willing to accept a two-state solution.

If there is a group willing to lead the Palestinians to a two-state solution, I am unaware of it. Perhaps one can be formed if elections were allowed.

Unfortunately that would require two very difficult things. One would be massive international international intervention into Gaza to take care of the people and rebuild. The second could possibly be even harder. There would have to be international guarantees of israeli safety during the process.

Ping Tung

(550 posts)
70. I love conspiracy theories.
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:35 PM
Mar 27

I suppose the UN is run by the Deep State or the FSB? MI6? CIA? PTA? Surete? Fred's Motorcycle Repair and Spy Agency?

Ace Rothstein

(3,163 posts)
41. You don't really think the Palestinians will suddenly be peaceful if Netanyahu isn't in power, do you?
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 02:55 PM
Mar 27

Avalon Sparks

(2,565 posts)
96. Hmmm
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 07:46 PM
Mar 27

You don’t really think Israel will stop after they take the Gaza Strip, do you? Next up, West Bank (already happening), then Yemen, Syria and so on. They want/need more land.

Avalon Sparks

(2,565 posts)
99. There are videos
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 08:20 PM
Mar 27

There are videos out there from leadership directly stating such. Maybe it won’t happen directly after they take Gaza, but yes I’m serious in believing what they actually have directly stated internally. Seems like they consider every Muslin to be a terrorist. I also believe they are only creating more enemies in the Middle East by their recent actions, and unfortunately they will never be safe.

sarisataka

(18,655 posts)
100. You wouldn't happen to be able to provide a link to these videos
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 09:09 PM
Mar 27

And how would Israel invade Yemen? More to the point, why would Israel invade Yemen?

Ace Rothstein

(3,163 posts)
104. Not really, no.
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 06:01 AM
Mar 28

They don't need more land and they've already returned land to neighbors that they took during previous wars.

NickB79

(19,243 posts)
63. And when Hamas attacks again?
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:22 PM
Mar 27

Because you know they will.

Either the new Israeli government responds with military force, again, or they'll be voted out and Lukid will return to power.

Literally every potential Israeli leader would have responded to 10/7 with an invasion of Gaza, and thousands of civilian casualties.

No nation anywhere would have peacefully sat on their hands, had an attack similar in scope to 10/7 taken place on their soil.

PCIntern

(25,544 posts)
29. Right, because the Israelis are certainly going to
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 01:03 PM
Mar 27

Base their policies upon what the American people think because that’s worked out so well for Americans. And they MOST CERTAINLY would rely upon a poll because we ALL know how accurate THEY are. Red Wave, anyone??

TBF

(32,060 posts)
31. I'm not clear as to why Israel cannot defend herself - the US certainly did when attacked on 9/11
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 01:11 PM
Mar 27

This is a complicated situation that really only came close to peace when Clinton was in office. I'm not convinced Netanyahu is the leader to bring peace - given that he appears to be as much of a right-wing lunatic as Trump and Putin - but what would we have him do given that his country was attacked and hostages are still being held.

eta - looking at the poll itself - "Methodology: This poll was conducted between March 1-20, 2024 with 1,016 adults. The margin of error is +/- 4 percentage points." This is not a very big sample.

AZLD4Candidate

(5,689 posts)
32. Look at the star on the Israeli flag and realize those people (me being one of them)
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 01:15 PM
Mar 27

have been the whipping boy for the world for 2000 years. They can do nothing right and no one cares if they die, are killed, or are marginalized.

But if they start winning or doing something to benefit themselves, the world loses their shit.

Sky Jewels

(7,096 posts)
78. You do realize that the government of Israel is NOT at all the same as all Jewish people all over the world?
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:54 PM
Mar 27

AZLD4Candidate

(5,689 posts)
81. You're looking for a fight by your aggressiveness and I refuse to go down a rabbit hole with you
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 05:02 PM
Mar 27

IF you support Hamas, more power to you.

I don't.

Sky Jewels

(7,096 posts)
83. Riiiight, because anyone who objects to Israel/Netanyahu's decimation of Gaza just looooves Hamas.
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 05:07 PM
Mar 27

That old saw is not going to silence people anymore. But nice try.

Sky Jewels

(7,096 posts)
76. The U.S. did NOT defend itself when attacked on 9-11!
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:51 PM
Mar 27

We spend untold trillions of money on the military and intelligence, and they were USELESS to defend us when we got attacked ... on U.S. soil! Then, what do we do in the aftermath? Brutally invade a country that contributed ZERO hijacker/terrorists, and slaughter tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, who had NOTHING to do with 9-11. Meanwhile, the real culprits, the Saudis, continued to get their asses kissed.

TBF

(32,060 posts)
95. The substance of your content is true, but that's really not how it was sold to the public.
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 07:45 PM
Mar 27

You can throw sand all you want but I'm not giving up on Israel. I may not love Netanyahu but I am also having a really hard time seeing folks like Hamas and Hezbollah as "freedom fighters". And I stand by my point - any other country would be allowed to defend themselves against a terrorist attack.

Takket

(21,568 posts)
47. I'd like to see the breakdown between...
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 03:05 PM
Mar 27

“They had no right to invade and never should have” and “they should invaded to defend themselves but they are going too far in their tactics”

brewens

(13,586 posts)
58. For starters, no god promised anyone anything. I'd like to knock some heads together and get them
Wed Mar 27, 2024, 04:09 PM
Mar 27

to stop fighting over that bullshit.

budkin

(6,703 posts)
107. I was on their side at first but they've pushed it way too far
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 02:13 PM
Mar 28

Yes I know the attacks against Israel were horrific, but that doesn't give them the right to wipe out tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Majority of Americans now...