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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTrump has been unable to get bond for $464 million judgment, his lawyers say
Former President Donald Trump has not been able to get a bond to secure the $464 million fraud judgment against him, his lawyers said in a court filing Monday.
Trump and his company need to post a bond for the full amount by next week in order to stop New York Attorney General Letitia James from being able to collect while he appeals. They've asked an appeals court to step in in the meantime and said Monday that they have not had any success getting a bond.
"Defendants ongoing diligent efforts have proven that a bond in the judgments full amount is 'a practical impossibility,'" the filing said. "These diligent efforts have included approaching about 30 surety companies through 4 separate brokers."
Their efforts, including countless hours negotiating with one of the largest insurance companies in the world, have proven that obtaining an appeal bond in the full amount of the Judgment is not possible under the circumstances presented, the filing said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-unable-get-bond-464-million-judgment-lawyers-say-rcna143860
hatrack
(59,602 posts)They're lawyers, and they count every single hour.
Think. Again.
(8,801 posts)...and I bet they're counting those hours a little more carefully since finding out he isn't the bottomless pit of cash he says he is.
underpants
(183,007 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(145,839 posts)Here is a link to TFG's filing
https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=LkIQgg7Dg2GXrJ4iSoe3tA==
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
malaise
(269,278 posts)Will he jump from the Tower before Leticia seizes it?
bluesbassman
(19,385 posts)The law is pretty clear on this, if you want to appeal you have to put up a bond. Obviously his diligent and hard working attorneys have explained this to him and apparently he understands it because he came up with a bond in the Carroll case. Half a billion dollars is a little harder to come by though, and now he thinks the law doesn't apply because he made a few phone calls and got snubbed? Too bad sucker, start selling your shit!
Aviation Pro
(12,229 posts)Schaun Freude anyone?
Timewas
(2,200 posts)I doubt he has anything worth that amount that isn't already in hock to the hilt..
mcar
(42,465 posts)in the FO portion of FAFO?
VMA131Marine
(4,159 posts)This seems like a you problem
.
Well, thats what I would do. I thought Trump was supposed to be flush with cash! Apparently he isnt as rich as he says he is.
rurallib
(62,478 posts)But I would not ever say that. After all, this is "Honest Don" we are talking about.
albacore
(2,408 posts)erronis
(15,460 posts)rurallib
(62,478 posts)For instance a POTUS could give his son-in-law clearance even though his SIL was hugely in debt. Say Trump could give Kushner clearance while he was in debt billions. Gawd I hope that never happens
GoCubsGo
(32,100 posts)Better keep an eye on Ivana's grave. "Honest Don" might need some of the stolen documents he probably has stashed there.
Think. Again.
(8,801 posts)malaise
(269,278 posts)RFN!
spanone
(135,924 posts)Start selling your shit, don.
getagrip_already
(14,950 posts)It's probably a bit chilly in there. Turn the heat on and start moving in the folding chairs.
They are probably going to have to move a lot of properties to get to that number.
Maybe all of them.
dalton99a
(81,700 posts)Ping Tung
(777 posts)going to stiff them when he goes broke.
Scrivener7
(51,083 posts)sinkingfeeling
(51,493 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(145,839 posts)underpants
(183,007 posts)In a deposition. Im pretty sure he did.
Irish_Dem
(47,833 posts)A waiver for posting the bond or something?
zanana1
(6,139 posts)Chakaconcarne
(2,479 posts)underpants
(183,007 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 18, 2024, 02:54 PM - Edit history (1)
$91M to appeal if memory serves
Ocelot II
(115,976 posts)in the E. Jean Carroll case, but that deal applies only to that case. He's not covered for any other judgments; each appeal bond has to be issued separately for each judgment. Considering the amount involved in the NY judgment, and the fact that he's already on the hook for other large judgments and debts, it's not surprising that neither Chubb nor any other surety company wants to take on this one.
hlthe2b
(102,509 posts)MOMFUDSKI
(5,779 posts)bearing gifts. lol
erronis
(15,460 posts)I bet trump has a color printer at MaL.
Order some more green cartridges, won't you flunky? Damn, where did everyone go?
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,839 posts)underpants
(183,007 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(145,839 posts)Irish_Dem
(47,833 posts)Probably most people do not have the cash to post bonds and hire a legal firm to handle
appellate cases.
Does Trump expect to get special treatment?
chicoescuela
(1,032 posts)Irish_Dem
(47,833 posts)Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
TSExile
(2,532 posts)My heart bleeds. Serves him right!!
tavernier
(12,415 posts)when Malaria leaves. They dont take IOUs.
TSExile
(2,532 posts)...Barron's 18th birthday is on Wednesday. Looks like the $$$$ is drying up. With her kid becoming a legal adult, will she take what's left of the money and run? I hope she does.
NJCher
(35,825 posts)I've heard spankings with Forbes magazine are 10% extra, too!
erronis
(15,460 posts)He can spank himself with the encrudded copies.
yorkster
(1,524 posts)lark
(23,191 posts)Please oh please!
Meadowoak
(5,571 posts)Wednesdays
(17,465 posts)I assume the government will seize his properties.
Then what happens if even that isn't enough?
Irish_Dem
(47,833 posts)appmanga
(591 posts)...for a multi-billionaire who claims to be worth $10 billion. Trump is a broke boi con man
AverageOldGuy
(1,568 posts)According to what I read, Trump's businesses have done business with Chubb, the huge multi-national insurance, finance, etc., organization that bailed him out at the last minute with a $93 million bond in the E. Jean Carroll case.
Any reason Chubb would not bail him out now?
We will not know until the deadline passes. It could be that Chubb investigated, found that he had assets sufficient to cover $93 million but he could not cover anything close to $500 million.
For all the criticism directed at them for helping him with $93, I suspect the Chubb folks are not stupid.
AverageOldGuy
(1,568 posts)I did what I should have done to begin with -- READ THE LINKED ARTICLE.
At the risk of violating DU rules about quoting too much, it seems as though The World's Sharpest Businessman has been turned down by EVERYONE HE HAS APPROACHED.
I'm heartbroken for him . . . aren't you?
From the NBC News article"
Their efforts, including countless hours negotiating with one of the largest insurance companies in the world, have proven that obtaining an appeal bond in the full amount of the Judgment is not possible under the circumstances presented, the filing said.
The other bond companies will not accept hard assets such as real estate as collateral, but will only accept cash or cash equivalents (such as marketable securities), the filing said. He also noted those companies typically require collateral of approximately 120% of the amount of the judgment which would total about $557 million.
"In addition, sureties would likely charge bond premiums of approximately 2 percent per year with two years in advancean upfront cost over $18 million," the filing said. That $18 million would not be recoverable even if Trump wins his appeal.
NJCher
(35,825 posts)that this is not just about delay. As you say about the $18 million, my observation has been that he is taking the expensive way out. $18 million, again, as you point out, is not recoverable.
That makes this a very expensive strategy. You don't incur expenses like this unless you have no choice.
He would have other options if he'd had the money, but he doesn't.
----------
On another but related topic, I think the above OP about Chubb only being willing to do the E. Jean Carroll bond seems to be a realistic assessment of the situation. If the lawyers are telling the truth (stop laughing!) about the largest insurance company, that would mean that the Germans turned him down. Allianz is by far and away the largest insurance company, followed by Axa in France and then Prudential in the States.
I'm sure everyone realizes now that trump's "wealth" has not passed the test, according to some of the best wealth investigators out there. This interested me because I used to do this as a p-t job while in grad school. I had to meet with company CEO's for an interview before they would be able to get very large income protection policies. At that time there were not enough databases to research their wealth, but that came shortly after I received my degree and had no more use for that job. However, I got a lot of $$ for each CEO interview! $1500!
Johnny2X2X
(19,254 posts)Trump could put up his own bond by offering the court a lien on one of his properties. But he wants a 3rd party to post it for him so he can grift them. And he knows giving a lien directly to the court makes the process of seizing his property extremely fast.
NJCher
(35,825 posts)What a delicious thought. Let's make Letitia's job easier.
jalan48
(13,909 posts)RockRaven
(15,076 posts)coming from this lot. Their reputation precedes them.
Your dog ate your homework so you can't turn it in? Then you get an F.
OAITW r.2.0
(24,759 posts)The market value is going to crush him when the forced sales start.
niyad
(113,860 posts)herding cats
(19,569 posts)niyad
(113,860 posts)could actually construct "news" articles that contained all the relevant facts. "Next week" may be correct, but is not informative.
Hotler
(11,475 posts)niyad
(113,860 posts)Thirty times.
Initech
(100,139 posts)No more fun until the bills are paid!
MurrayDelph
(5,304 posts)Seize Bedminster first, and exhume Ivana's cenotaph.
Initech
(100,139 posts)So yeah it's time to take that away from him. And yes his plane and Bedminster too. Seize it all!
The Unmitigated Gall
(3,838 posts)cloudbase
(5,530 posts)Enoki33
(1,589 posts)owe $20,000 and failed to pay you are in trouble, but if you owe twenty million it's the lender who is in trouble. Karma can at times take a little longer.
SupportSanity
(234 posts)Perhaps an oligarch will help Trump. They owe him too.
NJCher
(35,825 posts)Into a war economy. The workers are thriving, having doubled their salaries.
But why should he help out a crazy as a loon loser? Like the large insurance companies, Putin wants a return on his investment and he has in the past stated that he quit depending on trump for anything because he was so erratic.
If anything, trump has become more erratic. How will he deliver to Putin? What behavior can trump display to gain Putin's confidence?
whopis01
(3,530 posts)As you said, Putin wants a return on his investment. If he (or any lender) were to put up money or agree to be on the hook for this, Trump would be relieved and not give a damn about it anymore. It would no longer be his money at risk. He wouldn't care anywhere near as much about winning or losing.
If Putin were to give money to Trump, he would want Trump to win the election and be in a position to return the favor. So he wouldn't want the money to be spent paying Trump's fines. Let Trump deal with that, let Trump become more and more desperate. If Putin thinks that Trump has a chance of winning the election, that is what he will do. Wait till Trump is desperate, then make sure any money gets used towards getting Trump elected.
SupportSanity
(234 posts)a US dictator forever, just like Putin; supporting other dictators;
Actually, it's a very long list of things that Trump can deliver for Putin.
ending democracy would be a big gift to Putin.
NJCher
(35,825 posts)Trump is a con man who only says he can deliver. He is incompetent and never delivers on anything.
Much depends on who is controlling the House if he were to ever get in.
Saying doesn't make it so.
SupportSanity
(234 posts)appearing to help American but only making it worse.
He seems to deliver on that very well.
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)So, you would think that Trump should not have any cash flow issues. Just have Jared and the Saudi foot the bill for his current expenses and legal bills while the state chases after his assets.
AllaN01Bear
(18,745 posts)Jarqui
(10,131 posts)a place for illegal immigrants sent to New York by Republican Governors
AllaN01Bear
(18,745 posts)exboyfil
(17,865 posts)Randolph Duke: You know perfectly WELL we don't have three hundred and ninety-four million dollars in CASH!
Official #2: I'm sorry, boys. Put the--Dukes's seats on the Exchange up for sale at once, and seize all holdings of Duke & Duke Commodities Brokers as well as all personal holdings of Randolph and Mortimer Duke.
world wide wally
(21,760 posts)Shoonra
(523 posts)As a lawyer, I know that real estate can certainly be put up as collateral for a bond. But why can't Trump manage it? I have some suggestions:
1. His real estate holdings - having been held by a trial court - to have been fraudulently inflated, are simply not worth the amount of the bond, so if he lost on appeal, the insurance company could not recoup its expenditure.
2. Trump squirrelled away a good deal of his real estate so that it can't be reached by creditors. Tricks like putting his childrens' names on the deeds. He acts and talks as if it's his property, but if creditors tried to liquidate it they'd run into a brick wall.
3. Trump's real estate holdings are each relatively small but very numerous, and in multiple jurisdictions, so the expenses of claiming enough to recoup the bond would be prohibitive.
More than one suggested reason may be operative.
Emile
(23,147 posts)his entire life.
flying-skeleton
(698 posts)Maybe it's because he's already hocked up to his eyeballs.